I took an awful risk on my AP exam, but my mind blanked out on other works of literature and I decided to use Ender's Game for a question about a tragic hero who brings tragedy others, and how this contributes to the overall tragic nature of the entire work.(Note the overuse of the word tragedy) Hopefully the grader of my test isn't some stodgy, stringent individual who can only find literary merit in works that have been written over a hundred or so years ago.
[ May 06, 2003, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: Heffaji ]
Posted by Steel (Member # 3342) on :
Hear, hear!
Posted by Cassandra (Member # 4566) on :
You know, I don't think Ender's Game counts as a novel that has literary merit. I think they want books by Shakespeare, Hemingway, Fitzgerald, you know, that stuff . . . that's generally what they want on AP exams, and I think that's what any grader is going to look for.
I used Euripides' Medea for that question.
Posted by kacard (Member # 200) on :
Actually test graders I have actually spoken to say they are looking for the way you think and they way your write and they way you defend your thesis -- not the subject matter. I think you'll probably be fine. And -- you won't believe how many English classes, including AP, use Ender's Game in the classroom -- so it's becoming a part of the expected canon and I'll even bet you are not the only one who used it. Rest easy Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Ender's Game was required reading in my tenth-grade English class, for which I am very thankful. Of course, I had an exceptionally cool teacher, but I've also heard about other teachers using Ender's Game in class.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I almost did this year, but then our administration got shaken up and the grant that would have made it possible fell through.
Posted by SausageMan (Member # 5134) on :
It's like what OSC said in the intro to the definitive edition of Ender's Game: A lot of writers don't like the book because it's too open. Most authors of the kind of book you read in English class have the themes of the book buried under analogies and so forth, and you have to "uncover" them. In Ender's Game, everything to be learned is right there, and a lot of English teachers don't like that.
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
It was required reading in 9th grade for me (that seems like it was so long ago when it was only 3 years. ). Prentice Alvin was also required in 10th grade. Speaker for the Dead was one of the summer reading choices. OSC's is pretty widely used in my school district. Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
I guess this makes me really really old. In my English classes, I was lucky to read authors like Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Jorge Borges, TS Eliot, and Kazantzakis - all of which was invigorating compared to the standard fare. But science fiction? Just not even an option. I guess Alberta (at least then, anyway) was really really stodgy.
Posted by WheatPuppet (Member # 5142) on :
I was horrified that my college Themes in American Literature professor asked me, "Orson Scott Card? Who's he?" I then proceeded to list off some similarly high-caliber scifi writers, Ursula K. LeGuin, Octavia Butler, Larry Niven, Issac Asimov etc. and proceeded to get a blank stare.
To educate her, I did a lengthy presentation on OSC just today. It turned out very well, even without preparation. I guess it helps to be a fanboy.
I guess that's what I get for going to a technical school with a decidedly non-technical and rather substandard English department.
Posted by Kate Emily (Member # 3409) on :
As long as kids get sf in addition to main stream books, it is refreshing. If they got it instead, it would be sad and scary.
Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
Shakespeare didn't write books, Cassandra.
Posted by Heffaji (Member # 3669) on :
Sometimes I wonder if critics today would be willing to look below the surface of a work similar in design and quality to Shakespeare, as most all of his work was designed mainly to please the layman that went to the theater rather then those staring deeper.
Posted by Jettboy (Member # 534) on :
You know, I wonder if this change of the literary criticism landscape is because of the differences in emphasis. Two things seem to have opened up the field of examination. The first is a focus on diversity rather than quality (what I consider both a good and a bad thing). The other is a lot more of a personal theory, but it seems English teachers have become more readers where they used to be more writers.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Actually, back to the starting topic, on my SAT II Writing test, the question was about the way that the people you interact with can help you define who you are. I, having just re-seen The Lord of The Rings: The Two Towers, used that story as my influence. I wrote about the way that Frodo treats Gollum and Samwise, and related that to how he thought of himself. It had been about four months since I read the book, so most of my info was from the movie, but I still got a perfect score.
Even though LOTR is more widely considered literature, I don't think you have to worry about it, as long as you wrote it well.
As for my school district, Ender's Game isn't a required book, but it was on the suggested reading list when I was in middle school, I remember. (I didn't read it then, because my best friend always had it checked out... I finally read it when she got her own darn copy.)
Of course nowadays you read the classic-type stuff, but you also get the more recent stuff too.. In fact, in our Senior English curriculum, the students watch Princess Mononoke, Star Wars, and other movies to explain the monomyth. I signed up for Honors, so no go for me.
Posted by ae (Member # 3291) on :
quidscribis:
quote:In my English classes, I was lucky to read authors like Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Jorge Borges, TS Eliot, and Kazantzakis - all of which was invigorating compared to the standard fare. But science fiction? Just not even an option. I guess Alberta (at least then, anyway) was really really stodgy.
Myself, I'd much rather do Marquez, Borges and Eliot than almost anything else I can think of. Haven't heard of Kazantzakis. Any good?
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
ae: Kazantzakis wrote, among other things, Zorba the Greek. I didn't enjoy it at all. It was a lot of years ago, and what little I remember now, it's basically about a sexist mysogynistic pig who drinks a lot. Like I said, it was a long time ago. I also didn't enjoy Waiting for Godot at all - thought it was a supreme waste of time. Didn't much like A Clockwork Orange either - thought it was completely inappropriate for our age group. The rest I enjoyed supremely. I still have Borges and Marquez kicking around and read them from time to time.
Variety is the spice of life, ain't it? At least I had a teacher who was interested in teaching us world literature, not just American/Canadian/English standard fair. It sure made life a lot more interesting.
Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
Marquez is awesome. One hundred years of solitude is one of my favorite books. The last temptaion by Kazantzakis is really good. Zorba the Greek wasn't so great, but the movie was good.
I did the brothers karamazov by dostoyevsky for my AP english final, and it helped me get a good mark.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
Urg! I wish I'd thought of that on my AP test! I could have gone places with Ender's Game, but instead I wimped out and used King Lear, which was on the list. I read it over a year ago, and couldn't even remember everyone's name. I think the question was how does a tragic hero's decision or action bring about the downfall of others and adds a certain tragic mood to the entire work. If Ender's Game does that, and it was proven wih a strong thesis and good support, then it shouldn't matter if it was by Shakespeare or Card. What came first: The literature or the Literary Analysis? One of those chicken and egg sort of things, isn't it?
Posted by Javertv (Member # 4793) on :
Ender's Game does not count as a novel of literary merit, unfortunately. You may get away with it, but part of the grading criteria includes the quality of the work you chose to discuss. I used Death of a Salesman, fyi.
Posted by aretee (Member # 1743) on :
(I just posted this in another thread)
I just finished reading Ender's Game to my honor's history class. I refered to it quite a bit throughout the year, drawing analogies and so forth. When I finished the last chapter I looked up and 3 of my kids were crying. It was awesome! They begged me to read, because there would be days when I forgot. And, when I was more regular in my reading, some students were upset that they missed some stuff while they were absent.
I have a little group of kids who have borrowed the Shadow series. I've loaned them my signed copy of Shadow Puppets and they think that's pretty cool. They look at me with wide eyes, "Your signed copy?" To which I reply, "Yes. If you ruin it, I'll hunt you down and kill you." They don't know that half my OSC book collection is signed.
I've read it to them because I can really apply some of the story lines (I know how OSC hates the discussion of "plot" and "theme") to the history I am teaching and events in their lives. You should have heard them when we started talking about the cold war and NATO and the Warsaw Pact. "Hey! That's in Ender's Game!" Our librarian has even purchased more OSC books for the library. I'm working to convert the world's youth.
Posted by Miro (Member # 1178) on :
*standing ovation for aretee* Last year (10th grade), one of the world history teachers had her class read Pastwatch. You have no idea how jealous I was! Actually, that same year, EG was required summer reading (which got me super excited) but we never even discussed it once in class.
Heffaji- I'd be interested in how it turns out for you. I'm going to be taking that AP next year and I'd love to use Ender's Game.
[ May 12, 2003, 11:48 PM: Message edited by: Miro ]
Posted by RushFan (Member # 5245) on :
Jon Boy-
Ender's Game was required reading in my tenth-grade English class, for which I am very thankful.
I'm very impressed with your teacher. If EG was required reading in my classes--back when pants were tight and hair was big-- students would have taken to english classes with actuall excitement.
How's 'Room with a view' sound for a fun read?
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
Well, I don't know about the literary merit of science fiction. My own opinion is that there is plenty of it around that has great literary merit. Others have other views, that I don't understand.
But - when I was in my senior year of university, I turned my Contemporary Theologies professor on to Pastwatch during a class disucssion about time and whether God operates inside or outside of time and the universe. She borrowed my copy of the book to read over that spring break. I think it may have been the first science fiction she had ever read. She has indicated to me since then that she intends to teach Pastwatch when she teaches that class again, and possibly in another of her classes.
Posted by Heffaji (Member # 3669) on :
I don't think I'll find out how that particular essay turned out. All the results divulge is the overall score from what I've been told. However, once I get my score sometime in July, I'll make sure to come back and reveal what my overall score is.
Posted by Euterpe~ (Member # 2235) on :
By now you've probably received your composite scores. And while you most likely don't know what you got on each essay, I think your teacher does. I know that in Biology my teacher will receive a score report that tells her how her students did on evolution, on genetics, on water, on cells, etc. I'm not sure if she gets a break down per student or just one for the whole class. But you could try asking your teacher. I know it'll still be a while before you can talk to him or her, but it should be worth the try.
Oh...I didn't actually take the test (I took Lang), but a friend of mine wrote about Jurgis.
Posted by sve (Member # 5456) on :
Incidentally, I think the College Board puts out a list of authorized books for the Advanced Placement syllabi in English Language & Composition and English Literature. Typically, you're supposed to write your essays based on books that appear on those syllabi, which serve as a basis for the AP curriculum around the country. That's how they standardize the curriculum -- by prescribing a number of books for AP teachers to choose from. I'm not sure whether the graders mind essays from books outside of the AP syllabus (e.g., Ender's Game), but good luck on your scores!
[ July 24, 2003, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: sve ]
Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
I got a 5 on both AP English exams by using (despite using?) Ender's Game. I'm pretty certain the comment about graders caring more about presentation and persuasiveness than content is correct.
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
Just finished AP Teacher training... you can definitely use EG: in fact, the tests specifically have the clause or any other applicable work specifically to give students that flexibility.
And AP Teachers, for the most part, agree that EG should be considered LITERATURE and taught with modern works like Beloved and Bless Me, Ultima.
[ July 25, 2003, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: David Bowles ]
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
RushFan - that's hilarious and it sure reminds me of those days of tight jeans, big hair, bobby socks and pumps. Eee gads -
I used Ender's Game in AP English - we had to choose a work to do a dramatic reading of - I did the section where Ender eliminates Bonzo and closed with the scene of Bean, the description of how little he really was, and how if anyone asked him what he wanted to be when he grew up, he wouldn't have known what they meant. I loved the contrast. It still brings tears to my eyes.
Posted by sve (Member # 5456) on :
quote: Just finished AP Teacher training... you can definitely use EG: in fact, the tests specifically have the clause or any other applicable work specifically to give students that flexibility.
Whoops, my mistake! I took the AP English Literature exam a little over 2 years ago, and at the time, my teacher made a big fuss about why we shouldn't use works that weren't part of our syllabus for the past two years in the AP curriculum. I didn't realize that it was acceptable and even common to use "non-literature" books as examples. Had I known this, I wouldn't have used "The Sound and the Fury"... Posted by Calx (Member # 5470) on :
The rules may have changed, but when I took the test years ago, you could base your essays on pretty much anything as long as you could viably relate it to the topic on hand. I compared The Great Gatsby to a Rollins band song, and got a 5, so hopefully you have nothing to worry about.
-Graham
Posted by Deidra (Member # 5455) on :
I think i took the same AP exam as you, i used Frankenstien as my tragic hero. I think that they graders should understand, no restrictions right? Hope you did good.
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