I'm looking ofr a quote in which Ender says something like, "When you understand a person it's impossible to hate them." I thought it was in Investment Counselor, but it wasn't. I'm now planning on attacking Speaker for the Dead, but it's a long book, and I'm not even sure it's in there. Normally I wouldn't bother you guys, but it's for an essay that I need to have finished by tomorrow, so if anyone could give me a general (or specific) place to look, I'd really aprreciate it.
Thanks Posted by Crystal (Member # 5437) on :
"...But when it comes to human beings, the only type of cause that matters is final cause, the purpose. What a person had in mind. Once you understand what people really want, you can't hate them anymore. You can fear them, but you can't hate them, because you can always find the same desires in your own heart."
I think this is the one that you are looking for. I know that it came from Speaker for the Dead, but I don't know what page or anything so I'm not sure if this will help you.
Posted by Grandma Edie (Member # 5771) on :
Here is the one I found:
In the moment when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well enough to defeat then it is in that very moment that I also love him. I think it is impossible to really understand somebody, what they want, what they believe and not love them the way they love themselves. And then at the very moment that I love them...I destroy them ...until they don't exist.
This is from chapter 13, "Valentine" in ENDER'S GAME. (page 168, definitive edition.)
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
Thanks so much, I was looking for both of those, I just didn't know it. Posted by Grandma Edie (Member # 5771) on :
And here is one from SPEAKER FOR THE DEAD with citation of page:
No human being, when you understand his desires is worthless. No one's life is nothing. Even the most evil of men and women, if you understand their hearts, had some generous act that redeems them, at least a little, from their sins.
page 131, SPEAKER FOR THE DEAD, paperback definitive edition.
Hey, this has been fun! You gave me a chance to play "Reference Librarian" again!
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
If you want me to come up with more........
Thanks
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Do you have special tools for reference librarying, GE?
Is it ever the case that you just can't understand someone? Does this constitute a sin in one's self? I know that Christians believe Jesus said "I will forgive whom I forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men."
Take Michael Jackson, for instance. Didn't Ender speak the death of a child molester/killer? Could Card write Ender speaking the death of Bill Clinton (who Card apparently feels is evil). Can he really understand a religious figure like San Angelo?
Christians believe Jesus performed an infinite atonement. I believe this meant he embraced all people, though some say he only embraced those who believe on him and repent. I guess my hope is in embracing Him who was able to embrace all. I guess to love Jesus is to accept that he can love Michael Jackson and Bill Clinton. And know that while He loves all three of us, all three of us do things that make Him sad.
Posted by Grandma Edie (Member # 5771) on :
Pooka, you raise more questions than can be discussed on one thread. But maybe there is one we have time to consider:
Could Card write Ender Speaking the death of Bill Clinton?
I would bet that if he tried, he would either fail utterly, or he would end up with a modified view of Bill Clinton.
In Junior High, (1964) when Lyndon Johnson ran against Barry Goldwater, Card's family was living in Arizona, Goldwater's home state. The class was to do a mock-debate of Johnson vs. Goldwater. Card took Johnson because nobody else would. Ever since then, he has been a political maverick.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
quote: Is it ever the case that you just can't understand someone? Does this constitute a sin in one's self? I know that Christians believe Jesus said "I will forgive whom I forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men."
I think there are probably times when you don't have enough information to fully understand someone. Ender could guess and be right based on his knowledge of human behavior, but Ender was one of the most brilliant men to ever live, and most of his brilliance lay in the area of understanding people. I don't think most of us are that brilliant, and I don't think it's a sin that we're not. I just think we should try, and learn from our failures.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
I know this isn't what you asked for but in the Homecoming series:
quote:For he had seen all their hearts from the inside, and that is a vision that leaves no room for hate. Yes, he knew that [omitted for spoilers] was a murderer in his heart - but he also "remembered" the agonay that [..blah blah blah.. spoilers]. Never mind that Nafai himself had never thought that humiliation was an excuse for murder. He knew how the world looked from [Yep]'s point of view, and it was impossible to hate him after that. He would stop him from getting his revenge, of course. But even as he did, he would understand.
Page 340 Ships of Earth (paperback) if you want the full, un-edited quote.
Hobbes Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
Thanks
Hatrack is proving to be a wealth of ideas. Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
quote:I know that Christians believe Jesus said "I will forgive whom I forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men."
As this is not from The Bible, but rather from The Doctrine And Covenants (going from memory, can anyone check me on that?), I don't think it's accurate to say that "Christians believe" Jesus said it. (Please note that I'm not arguing whether or not Latter Day Saints are Christians. There have already been plenty of threads on that. I'm only mentioning this because of the rather implicit "all" in front of Christians in the quote.)
--Pop
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
You're right, Pop. I was going to say the same thing.
If my memory of all the seminary flash cards is correct, it's D&C 64:10. I still remember the picture on the flash card...it showed a guy playing basketball. He was supposedly 6'4", and there was a forklift (haha--forgive) lifting him to the hoop, which is 10 feet.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
Do you think OSC is one of the greatest authors writing today?
[To Explain: I haven't read that many authors who are alive today, so I was wondering what people who had thought. I was thinking about saying something about it in my essay, but decided not to, and now I'm just curious]
[ November 25, 2003, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: blacwolve ]
Posted by Grandma Edie (Member # 5771) on :
This may not be the kind of answer you wanted, blackwolve, but it is the only one possible.
No one will know who "the greatest writers alive today" are for at least 100 years, maybe more.
There isn't much in the way of objective standard for quality in literature; the closest to it is the ability to ENDURE through changes of fashion, changes of society, all kinds of changes.
If anyone eagerly reads the same writer over and over, he is at least above average.
If people are still reading that writer a generation later, he has "quality."
If he is still read hundreds of years later, he is "classic."
If his work is still read a thousand or more years later(like Homer, Plato, Greek Drama, the Bible, etc.) it is a "Great Book."
My off-the-top-of-my-head guess is that Card is at least on the "quality" level, and, given time, he might be at least on the lower level of "classic."
Grandma Edie (former college instructor in English)
Posted by Black Mage (Member # 5800) on :
In my mind, Ender's Game is already on great book. I remember I read it in eighth grade and it was the most powerful book I had ever read before. I set it down and spent a good hour or two doing nothing, just mulling it over.
Posted by suntranafs (Member # 3318) on :
"Do you think OSC is one of the greatest authors writing today?"
Yes. What more needs to be said. He is without question one of the greatest authors writing today.
-suntranafs(former college student in english who desn't think it matters what they think in a hundred years.)
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who desn't think it matters what they think in a hundred years.)