I recently discovered OSC and read _Ender's Game_ a couple of months ago. I thought it was too violent for my nine year-old. But I just finished _Ender's Shadow_ and I kept thinking, "DS (that's internet mommy lingo for dear son) has to read this!" Is _Shadow_ less violent than _Game_ or is it me? DS can read anything but he's still a little kid after all. I would love to hear from other parents but also younger readers. (Now OSC probably has a nine year-old child who will write back and give me the definitive answer!) Christie
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Shadow is actually probably MORE violent than Game, but it's considerably less explicit. It was deliberately written for a younger audience, for one thing.
Posted by Soara (Member # 6729) on :
i would definately say that neither of the books are too violent for a nine-year-old. i think you underestimate kids. Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
quote:Shadow is actually probably MORE violent than Game, but it's considerably less explicit. It was deliberately written for a younger audience, for one thing.
Actually, I'd say that Shadow is LESS violent, but I don't see how it's more kid friendly than EG. It paints a pretty gruesome picture of life on the streets. There are even references to child prostitution, and infanticide. I'm not trying to discourage any parents from letting their kids read ES (quite the opposite), I'm just telling it how it is.
Posted by Puppy (Member # 6721) on :
I read Ender's Game at seven, but the images of Peter eating the snake totally freaked me out and gave me nightmares Posted by Puppy (Member # 6721) on :
But then, is reading things that cause fear, nightmares, disturbing images, etc, actually a bad thing? I know that I was fascinated by movies (particularly cartoons) in which characters died, or in which terrible, evil things happened, even at a very young age. Sometimes I was afraid, or even ran away and hid, but I was glad my parents didn't prohibit me from watching that stuff.
Of course, I'm still talking about child-level scary and disturbing things. Like The Dark Crystal, for instance. Or The Last Unicorn. I wouldn't want a kid to watch City of God. But I think Ender's Game might actually be a good kind of disturbing book for a child. It shows the violence, but it also shows the consequences, and it does so in a way that is comprehensible to a child.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
If you're not completely comfortable about the level of violence, why not read it out loud with your son? That's what I would do instead of sending him off to read it on his own. That way you can watch his reactions and discuss things as they come up.
Come to think of it, guess I'll get out my copy and read it with *my* nine-year-old son.
space opera
Posted by osc'solderthanmeafterall (Member # 7054) on :
Thanks for the feedback -- that's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I guess it's a little late to be asking advice because dh (dear husband) already told him he could read it. I would like to read it but the last time I tried to read to him was in first grade when I was reading _The Hobbit_ and he kept reading ahead and I couldn't follow the story anymore. BUT I could lock it up somewhere! Oh, probably not. I'm too ADD. (We did start reading _Moby Dick_ together, and he would let me read that to him, but we didn't do it consistently. We're a little better now though because I feed his leopard geckoes at bedtime.) Sorry. I guess everybody thinks their kids are really interesting, but everybody ELSE doesn't. Christie
Posted by osc'solderthanmeafterall (Member # 7054) on :
quote:But then, is reading things that cause fear, nightmares, disturbing images, etc, actually a bad thing? I know that I was fascinated by movies (particularly cartoons) in which characters died, or in which terrible, evil things happened, even at a very young age.
Yeah, that's one thing that bothers me about OSC -- he never spares his characters. I thought that was especially true in the later books in the Ender series. It's not very Hollywood of him. But then I guess life isn't very Hollywood sometimes either. Also DS will stop reading it if he's really bothered by it. He's sort of gotten into the kid-version of horror this past year though, so maybe he'd appreciate the chance to work through his "dark side," as you imply, Puppy. Christie
[ January 20, 2005, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: osc'solderthanmeafterall ]
Posted by 0range7Penguin (Member # 7337) on :
Someone mentioned the Dark Crystal and some other movies earlier but you can get even more child oriented than that and still find it disturbing. IN the lion king his uncle throws his dad of a cliff, in Bambi his mother gets gunned down, in The Land Before Time his mother gets bit by a T-Rex and bleeds to death, the trend goes on in on. If these were movies with people instead of cartoons they would be rated PG-13 or R. So before you start worrying about books like Ender's Game think about what your kid has already experianced. I have an eight year old sister and I am constantly amazed by how smart she is and what she can handle.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I sing murder ballads to kids (including mine) all the time. Why wouldn't I? They love them, I was raised on them, it's a grand tradition. "Kids'" songs are rife with references to death, dismemberment, all kinds of things. Consider "Clementine". She drowns while her sweetheart watches because he can't swim! I think Ender's Game actually deals with violence very well. Kids need to learn about the consequences of violence, not just the "glamor".
Posted by Ksig (Member # 5625) on :
I read it when I was about nine and I really liked it. My mom read it right before me and i discussed it with her after (she quiet trying to read to me when i started to read faster than her )so that probably helped with any violence problems. Plus, with all the movie violence crap going on, I don't think a book is going to harm the child.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
I would use this rule of thumb with the books: if a kid is capable of reading the book to himself, then it's appropriate for the kid. A kid who has the mental drive to focus on a book that appeals to adults has the emotional maturity to handle what he is reading. When I was nine, I was still reading the Baby-Sitters Club books. I could have read harder books, and sometimes did, but what I did read depended on my own short attention span. If a book bothered me in any way- especially if I was uncomfortable with the action of the story, I'd just stop reading with no hard feelings. I read a ton of books, so there was always something else. Some books I never picked up again. Others I redisovered and finished when I was ready for them.
Posted by 0range7Penguin (Member # 7337) on :
Good point, let the kid decide. I was reading the Boxcar kids Mysteries when I was nine.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I had just finished Shakespeare and the Book of Mormon, and was going through The Annotated Sherlock Holmes, which I got for my 9th birthday, with a smattering of Arthur C. Clarke and a healthy dose of The Boxcar Children and Nancy Drew mixed in. :
Posted by Sammi (Member # 7461) on :
I hated reading at nine years old because people were always giving me poorly written nonsense like The Babysitters Club or other such utterly uncomplex "children's" books. But in fifth grade, for my ninth birthday, my sister gave me Jurassic Park by Michael Crichton. I devoured it in four days and was forever hooked on reading after that. I continued in the next few years to writers such as John Saul, OSC, Stephen King, Shakespeare, Robin McKinley, Tamora Pierce, and list of so many fantastic writers who's books have so much to teach children despite the violence in them (which by the way is only a reflection of the world). My advice, let him read anything he wants...he'll either understand it, or it will be over his head. Either way, he's reading.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
I've got to disagree that just because a child is physically capable of reading a book that s/he should be allowed to read it. As a parent it's my job to decide what's appropriate for my child. My son could read a Danielle Steele book but there's no way in heck I'd let him - and that's not because they're romances - it's because they suck.
I think kq using Sherlock Holmes stories is an excellant example. In my mind, these would be ok, even though they feature some violence. However, something like, say, "Salem's Lot"' would not be. I think it's all in the presentation, and to me, allowing my child to decide what he reads with no guidance from me is like handing him the remote to a tv equipped with cable and letting him channel surf by himself. Just because he has eyes is no reason to assume that everything he sees is appropriate viewing.
space opera
Posted by alluvion (Member # 7462) on :
soara,
"definitely" please? I know it's a lot to ask.
Posted by UTAH (Member # 5032) on :
I think Ender's Game and The Shadow series are not for 9 years olds. They are too violent. Of course, I don't think Boxcar Children are right for 9 year olds either. They aren't good literature. There are a lot of great children's books that ARE good literature, so let them read those books and save Ender for late Jr. High or High School.
Posted by VP (Member # 7463) on :
I think it depends on the maturity of the child and the personal philosophy of the parents. My parents never forbid me from reading or watching anything, but taught me how to make responsible choices. As a result, I was able to read books from authors such as OSC, Crichton, Clancy, and many other more adult authors starting at ten years old. Most of my friends weren't ready for those types of books though.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
I don't see anything wrong with a nine year old reading the boxcar children. They're not inappropriate books for kids. Kids read them because they're interesting, they're fast reads,and there's lots of 'em (even if the ones written by Gertude Chandler Warner are the best). It turns trips to the library to get three at a time into a frequent affair, and eventually something a kid would do on his/her own for fun. So what if he spends a year reading about Henry, Jesse, Violet and Benny? I spent years reading those kinds of books. I turned out fine. My mother did suggest I read something else, and like everything she suggested in that kind of manner, I would refuse to do it. Some "classic" kids books, I was late to discover, and others I never read at all. But I like to read. A lot. It's because I read what I wanted and not someone else's image of what was good for kids. Space Opera: you're right, Danielle Steele DOES suck. I used to work in a library, and I couldn't help but notice that our library had lots of 'em. When I discovered their primary audience was little old ladies, I decided to pick the shortest one I could find and record a book on tape for my grandmother. Tape deck problems stopped me after about two chapters, but I finished the book on my own out of curiousity, having gone through the first two chapters by rote. Wow that book sucked. I think I had never read anything so plastic in my life.
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)so that probably helped with any violence problems. Plus, with all the movie violence crap going on, I don't think a book is going to harm the child.