quote:

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And the book seems to focus more of the families religon then anything else (which can be interesting, but at times its like, well, ok, but why is that important?

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Quick answer -- the family is based on Card's own family. In fact, in the short story, he didn't even change the names from the names of his family. Why is religion important? Because religion is important to Card's family, and that's what he was basing it on.
 

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Posted by DF2506 (Member # 6847) on :
 
Quick answer -- the family is based on Card's own family.>

I think I heard that is was. I think I heard someone say once that Lost Boys was OSC's most autobiographical book so far (may have been OSC himself).

< In fact, in the short story, he didn't even change the names from the names of his family.>

Thats cool. Is the short story available online? I might read it if it is!

> Why is religion important? Because religion is important to Card's family, and that's what he was basing it on. >

Well, I didn't mean that religion wasn't important. What I meant was, that sometimes in the book certain aspects of the religion (and some of the daily life things) would be interesting and maybe important to the story, while other aspects seemed like they were just there. No real importance. I know you have to give background on the characters, but most of the story really is background. More then anything, the story is about the characters lives (down to some daily stuff even, sometimes). So its not so much a story, rather its more like a family journal or a family diary. At least, thats what the book seems like to me.

That said, there have been a couple of interesting developments in the part I'm reading. The story is starting to move a little bit (finally).

I guess, really, I'm more use to the Enderverse/Beanverse/Alvin stories were things are paced a little quicker. Where you have more of sense of what the story is about, where it might be heading, and yes, the characters are complicated too. I think, so far, Lost Boys has the characters right. It really is a character book. Not an event book or idea book like the Ender/Bean/Alvin books are (though those books are definitly not lacking character).

I enjoy the book, but yet at times it really drags along.

Still, I gotta finish it. I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

DF2506
" OSC is my favorite writer right now. Nobody writes books like him. That said, I'm not sure how I feel about Lost Boys as whole yet. I gotta finish the book first."
 

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Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :
 
You've probably read my posts in other threads, so you already know I consider Lost Boys to be the very best book Card has yet written.

Given that you don't seem to know where the story's heading, I'll assume you took my advice and didn't read the cover. Good on you.

The story at this point seems listless and meandering to you because this isn't your typical plot-oriented story: The characters don't exist to service the plot, and the book could probably be cut down to half or even a quarter of its size without losing any major plot elements. Instead, the plot exists to show off the characters, in particularly the Fletcher (Card) family, and how their interactions affect them and their community.

The book's strongest theme (sorry, Senior Card, but the literary terminology is appropriate) is family. Here we find a deeply personal and realistic picture of something we almost never see in media today: The healthy family. We are shown all of the trials, foibles, hard work, pain, and tears that go into maintaining a healthy family amidst constant stresses and challenges, and through all of that see why anyone would want to attempt it in the first place. That, more than anything else, is what the book is about, and for someone like me who has a strong desire to be a good husband and father (though I've so far never had the opportunity to be either), it makes for a very compelling read.

The story would still work without these elements; it would still progress from point A to point B, and it would probably still be enjoyable*, but the impact and depth of the events would be gone. So forget about plot; don't worry about where the book is heading. Just read, and immerse yourself in the family. Put yourself in their positions, and think about what you would do when faced with the same challenges. When the plot finally reveals itself (and it will), it will mean far more to you.

*The short story certainly is enjoyable, but the focus there is once more on the family -- the effect that you get from hundreds of pages of character exploration in the novel comes instead from believing that the story actually happened to Card's family. It's a different way of getting there, but the result is the same.
 

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Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :
 
As for Homebody and Treasure Box:

Treasure Box, for me, was entirely forgettable. Nothing in the book took me by surprise, and the characters weren't very compelling to me. It seems to be pretty standard horror fare, though without quite so much of the pointless blood and guts.

Homebody was much more interesting, though still "lightweight" when it comes to Card's works overall. I found the details involved in house repair work to be interesting and (apparently) well-researched, and there's a certain element of fun in it, particularly with the neighbors. Worth reading, but it doesn't get a place among my favorites.
 

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Posted by just-a-min (Member # 7308) on :
 
I read the short story before I read Lost Boys , so I knew how the novel would turn out as I read along. I agree that it was slow but I saw the beliefs and the daily stresses becoming the reason for the coming dramatic plot twists.
You have to understand the good and bad of this family to understand the poiniant good in the midst of the "hard times."
I have to admit I loved reading about DeAnne because I had never before experienced a character that was so like me. She helped me get through some of the slow parts.
 

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Posted by DF2506 (Member # 6847) on :
 
Thanks for your comments Bekenn (your comments on Lost Boys seem right on the money to me), just-a-min, and mr_porteiro_head.

I'm at Chapter 13 now. Chapter 12 was really my favorite chapter so far. It was very story related and very interesting. The Stevie plot is really picking up. I like it quiete a bit now.

I have to say I was enjoying the Step at work plot alot (Step is prob my favorite of the characters) and then that one ended (for the most part) a couple of chapters back. But the Stevie plot is starting to really pick up, so thats ok.

Like Bekenn said, this book is really about the family. Its more focused on the family then anything. And you know, I like that. Its nice to read something different for a change. A story thats more focused on its characters then anything else is nice to read once and awhile.

I knew ever since I read Speaker For the Dead, that Mr. Card really liked to write about families. I gotta say, I like the family in Lost Boys quiete a bit, but the Speaker family is still prob my favorite. I like how Ender comes into that family and really changes them. And how in Xenocide, he's really part of the family and we see the impact that he's had on them (thats why I really disliked what happened in Children of the Mind to Ender. I guess I just really wanted a happy ending for Ender and his new family. especially Ender. He'd been through so much. *aside: wonders to self if he's going to like the Lost Boys ending* lol. don't say anything! I want to be suprised).

Anyway, getting off topic. Back to Lost Boys, its a really well thought out family. IF OSC's family is really like this or close to this, then he is a really lucky guy.

So as I near the end of the book, I gotta say I'm really happy that I kept reading this. Its a really good book. I still enjoy OSC's Speaker/Xenocide, Bean books, and Alvin books more, but I definitly won't forget Lost Boys.

Oh and btw, I plan to read Treasure Box next. Hope I like it. I'll let you guys know.

DF2506
" I've been reading Lost Boys quiete a bit. lol. I just got it Monday and I'm almost done with it."
 

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Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
 
Not every book is for everyone.

At least you understand why Lost Boys wasn't exactly my bestseller.

The story is actually happening, of course, but since the point-of-view characters have no idea what they're caught up in, I can't reveal anything before they realize it. When they do, it changes the meaning of a lot of "why does this matter?" stuff that happened before it.

Because this is written like a literary novel, it is likely to be taken for a character story. Yet what the characters are going through doesn't seem to change them - their commitments remain the same. There are tensions in the family, but they aren't falling apart. No one is having an affair. No one is changing their religion. They worry about ordinary stuff. It's just ... life.

But in reality, this is actually what I call an "event story" - something is deeply wrong with the world, and the story begins exactly where they become involved in trying to fix it. The thing is, they don't know that they're involved.

I recognized this problem about three-fourths of the way through writing it. I knew exactly why every scene was there, what purpose they all served - I regard it as an uncuttable book. Nothing can be left out. NOTHING is there just because "it really happened." Believe me, a lot more things happened in my family's life at the time!

But with my hands tied by the rules of point of view (what, was I going to have the narrator step in and say, "Little did they know ..."?), I tried a quick-and-dirty "fix" of the problem - I put that two-page prologue at the beginning from the point of view of "Boy." I hoped that would be vile enough to let you know that this fictional world was inhabited by somebody dangerous and sick.

Instead, the opening simply repelled a lot of readers who thought that that vile point of view would keep coming up (it never does), and I don't think it helped other readers at all. Just another of those mistakes ... like the early chapters of Hart's Hope, which were added on later because editors etc. kept saying, "But I want to know more about Beauty and Enziquelvinisensee Evelvenin! How did everything get to be this way?" Instead of doing a simple flashback, I nearly killed the book with long chapters ...

These things happen. With the best intention, you sometimes have a story that's simply hard to tell, and all you can do is the best you can to spit it out in some usable form ...
 

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Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :
 
Yeah, I can agree that the "Boy" prologue is stylistically a little jarring when compared with the rest of the book, but at least it's only there at the very beginning, and you don't constantly come back to that point of view. I also agree that it would make for a better story to omit the prologue, but at the same time, I'm not sure your instinct to put that in there was incorrect.

Without that prologue, the book has no real "hook," and casual readers probably won't be as patient to read through the story if they don't have at least a small inkling of what the plot is. I imagine a fair number of readers kept with the book who might not otherwise simply because they wanted to find out what this whole "Boy" thing was, which gives the characters more time to worm their way into the reader's mind.

Of course, most of them probably just read the back cover and said "Ooh! It's a ___ story!" and then became highly confused and impatient waiting for the book to catch up with the synopsis.

In any case, the prologue's only a couple of pages, and soon fades into the background.
 

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Posted by Oobie Binoobie (Member # 8059) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by DF2506:

SO why keep reading, you ask? Well, because I do like the family. I do want to know what's going to happen them. I am interested to see where the plot with Step (the job) and Stevie (his friends) is going.

[/QB]

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I hope this isn't a spoiler for you, but if you've come to care about the family, then keep reading. You'll bawl your eyes out, like I did, at the end.

Rob
 

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Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
 
I just want to know if you have to look up the name "Enziquelvinisensee Evelvenin" or how to spell it or if it just rolls off your tongue and through the keyboard without thought. I certainly have trouble pronouncing it. (Though I'm proud I can remember Voshmuzhalnoy Vozhmozhno. At least that's how I phonetically spell it. Not sure if that's exactly right.)

Oh, and I loved Lost Boys. Treasure Box and Homebody were good, too, but Lost Boys was a real punch in the gut, even after having read the short story and explanation in Maps in the Mirror.
 

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Posted by DF2506 (Member # 6847) on :
 
Well...I finished Lost Boys.

And I gotta say...that was one of the most depressing endings I've ever read. *whew* Very sad. Don't know if I'll ever be able to read that book again. Really. I was just really like, " Oh man.." OSC just doesn't like to write happy endings does he? lol.

That said, after reading what OSC said, and thinking back to alot of the stuff that happening in the book, I can see the event story angle (though there is quiete a bit of character stuff in there too) and I can definitly see the importance of some stuff that I thought was just there (like the bugs, and showing how their religon works and other stuff. its all important and it all helps you care for the family more and it makes the ending even more depressing).

But man...whoa..that ending! Punch in the gut indeed!

*whew*

I guess this is another case where I wish the ending was happy. lol...

Ok, so I'm done with Lost Boys and now I'm moving on to Treasure Box.

I read chapter 1 and 2, but I read them really quickly because I'd already read them online (lol). Now I'm on chapter 3. Its sort of interesting so far. I'm definitly going to hang in there and see where it goes.

DF2506
" After Treasure Box, I'll read Homebody. After that, well, I hope to buy Shadow of the Giant (FINALLY) at the end of the month. I should have the money then! "
 

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Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :
 
Ah, good; welcome to the club!

Feel free to read the back of the book now, if you're ready for just a little more pain.
 

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Posted by DF2506 (Member # 6847) on :
 
Feel free to read the back of the book now, if you're ready for just a little more pain<

Hmm. I don't think so. *runs away*

I'm off to read Treasure Box now. I think I need to get that Lost Boys book out of my head. lol.

Don't get me wrong, it was a really good book. I really enjoyed reading about Step and Stevie and the rest of the family some, but the ending was just so depressing. A real downer.

I'm ready to move on to Treasure Box now.

DF2506
" Hope this one has a happier ending. lol. Bet not! "
 

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Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
 
I'm in the process of reading Treasure Box right now. It's a pretty quick read, though I was kind of confused the first time "she" was mentioned (you'll see), I might not have been paying that much attention to what I was actually reading tho.
 

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Posted by Cashew (Member # 6023) on :
 
I thought the beginning of Lost Boys set just the right jarring note to balance the tone of the rest of the story. What kept me reading was just the straight out fascination of the day to day activities of the family. The LDS link kept me interested too.
The ending I thought was one of the most beautiful, uplifting, touching things I'd ever read. The hands joined across the table/altar at the end really got me, along with Doorman waiting for the rest of the family . I had tears streaming down my face because I found that last image and its associations so beautiful.
Homebody and Treasure Box I found forgettable.

[ June 17, 2005, 02:28 AM: Message edited by: Cashew ]
 

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Posted by Oobie Binoobie (Member # 8059) on :
 
I cried like a... well, like a father with children during the last scenes of that book. The ending was not a downer, because all of the Lost Boys were found again.
 

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Posted by DF2506 (Member # 6847) on :
 
Wow. Treasure Box is really good so far, imo. It just seems to get better and better. I really like where its heading!

So far, I'm liking this one more then Lost Boys.

I'm on Chapter 15 now, so I'm not too far from the ending. Can't wait to see what happens!

DF2506
" I'm also looking forward to reading Homebody."
 

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Posted by 0range7Penguin (Member # 7337) on :
 
And by the way I don't think anybody said it so far so I will. The short story version is best found in OSC's book Maps in a Mirror. Its a collection of his short stories and is personally my second favorite OSC book, right after Enders Game that is.
 

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Posted by DF2506 (Member # 6847) on :
 
Thanks for the info, 0range7Penguin. I'm going to try to get Maps in a Mirror via library loan next (after I finish Homebody).

Anyway, I finished Treasure Box. It was a really good book, imo. Had a good ending too! The hero didn't die! I was a little shocked! lol!

So I started Homebody and its ok right now (I'm sure it'll pick up. characters are interesting though). I'm definitly going to keep reading it.

After I finish Homebody, I figure I'll try to order Maps in a Mirror and maybe some other OSC book too. Any suggestions?

I've read all the Ender books, most of the Bean books (expect for Shadow of the Giant, gotta wait till later this month for that), all the Alvin books (expect Master Alvin of course. lol), Lost Boys, Treasure Box, Wyrms, the Memory of Earth (which I thought was ok. not sure if I want to read the rest), and I'm working on Homebody!

So I figure Maps in a Mirror and one other OSC book are next! Hmmm.

DF2506
" Though, of course, I'd love to read Shadow of the Giant next. lol. That won't happen to later this month though. I'm hoping to get my hands of a copy of it then. "
 

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Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :
 
You desperately need to add Lovelock to that list.
 

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Posted by DF2506 (Member # 6847) on :
 
You desperately need to add Lovelock to that list. <

I'll check out the OSC library on the site and see if it looks interesting to me. Thanks for the recommandation.

edit: I read Chapter 1 of Lovelock in the OSC library and it was really good. I think I may have read the chapter before though. I'm pretty sure that I haven't read the actual book though. So I'm going to read Lovelock and Maps in a Mirror next. Maybe one more book too if somebody has another recommandation for me.

Back to the rest of my post...

Haven't read anymore of Homebody yet. I'm going to try and read some more tonight!

If I can get it read by Monday, then I might go to the library then and order some more OSC books.

DF2506
" Any other recommandations? "

[ June 18, 2005, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: DF2506 ]
 

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Posted by R. Ann Dryden (Member # 8186) on :
 
Wyrms. One of my personal favorites.

Treason. Great world building.

Worthing Saga. Sucker-punch to the gut, emotionally, at least for me, but I feel like a richer person for having read it.

Pastwatch: The Redemption of Christopher Columbus. Makes you REALLY care about history.
 

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Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
 
I have to say, Wyrms is the one Card book I can not recommend at all, to anyone, and recommend against.

But if you like Treasure Box, maybe you'll like it. Treasure Box was okay to me, but the style and elements of the story were just a bit too creepy to think about.
 

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Posted by R. Ann Dryden (Member # 8186) on :
 
Interesting. What turned you off about Wyrms? I absolutely LOVE it. True, some of the concepts are a bit hard to swallow from a neat and tidy perspective, but I like that about it. If I could pick one book for OSC to autograph for me, I would have a very hard time deciding which, but Wyrms might just be the one I chose in the end.

If you don't like some of the subject matter in Wyrms, you probably won't like the stuff I write either.

Actually, I am not a huge fan of Treasure Box, as it happens (though I don't hate any of his books). Perhaps because it isn't as science fictiony as some of his other stuff. Though I also love Lost Boys which isn't sci fi at all, and I enjoy most of his books no matter what the genre.
 

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Posted by just-a-min (Member # 7308) on :
 
Since you listed Wyrms as a book you have read, I would recommend Treason if you liked Wyrms. It's a totally different story but I kinda classify the two together. Treason is a bit more unconventional than Wyrms.
Pastwatch has a great plot and it really makes you think about the complexity of history and comparing the horrors of the past and present.
Enchantment is one of my personal favorites. While Pastwatch is SF, Enchantment is a fantasy set in Ukrain. Like Pastwatch, it made me appreciate a history in an obscure part of the world. It is the best novelization of Sleeping Beatuy I have ever read.
 

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Posted by 0range7Penguin (Member # 7337) on :
 
I usually buy OSC books outright but this got very expensive untill I found a great way around it. Used book stores! As long as the books in good shape and it looks like it will last a long time still I can get books for atleast half price!
 

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Posted by DF2506 (Member # 6847) on :
 
Already read Wyrms. Liked it. Yes, it had some gross stuff, lol, but overall it was a good book. Enjoyed it.

Also: I tried to read the Worthing Saga one time and just couldn't get into it. As for Treason, the concept just seemed too bizarre for me. Plus it didn't seem that interesting..

As for the rest, a couple of people mentioned Pastwatch, so maybe I'll check that one out (I'll prob stop by the OSC library first to read a preview chapter).

Also I'll check out Enchantment in the OSC library.

Btw, I haven't read much of Homebody yet (still on the third chapter or fourth chapter I believe). I got my Nintendo DS yesterday so I've been distracted with that. lol. I'll prob take Homebody to work with me tommorow and read it at work (the job I have right now is basically sitting at a desk, so there's a lot of down-time. Its a good time to read).

I still might go ahead and order three new OSC books though. I finished Lost Boys and Treasure Box, so I can take that back. I also have Characters and Viewpoint and I should prob take that back. So I'll take those back and then order three new books! Right now its definitly going to be Maps in a Mirror and Lovelock. Not sure about the third book yet.

Anyway, thanks for the recommandations!

DF2506
" I'll try to read Homebody some more soon. Maybe I'll get a chance tonight. lol."
 

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Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :
 
Looks like Ann and I have pretty similar tastes. Welcome to the boards!

I liked Wyrms quite a bit, and enjoyed Pastwatch. I think, though, that Enchantment would probably make the best counterpoint for the ones you've been reading lately. Lost Boys is very hard-hitting emotionally, Homebody and Treasure Box both go the supernatural angle, Lovelock is a wonderful outsider story, Pastwatch is an interesting perspective on Christopher Columbus, Wyrms is yet another in Card's long line of children-against-impossible-odds books (I say that with fondness; I thought Wyrms was great), and Maps in a Mirror (naturally) ranges all over the place, but Enchantment is just plain fun. I don't think Card has any other books or stories quite like it.
 

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Posted by DF2506 (Member # 6847) on :
 
I already ordered Map in a Mirror, Pastwatch, and Locklock, but I'll keep Enchantment in mind for a future book to read, Bekenn.

Maybe I'll go read the preview chapter of Enchantment soon to see if I find it interesting.

Anyway, I'm still reading Homebody. I got to admit though that its the slowest of thethree books I've read lately (even slower then Lost Boys even) and the least interesting so far.

I want to finish the book, so I prob will, but I'm just not getting into this story yet. Maybe it'll get better later on..

DF2506
" Hopes that Pastwatch, Maps in a mirror, and Lovelock come in soon. I'm betting it'll be Tuesday next week, but I guess if the books come from nearby it could be as early as this Thursday! *hopes* Of course, I gotta finish Homebody first."
 

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Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
 

quote:

---

but Enchantment is just plain fun. I don't think Card has any other books or stories quite like it.

---

See, I loved Enchantment because of the stuff about relationships and love and marriage. I think it echoes the stuff I love in the Shadow books and Lost Boys wonderfully.

Okay, also, it's just a plain awesome story, especially for someone who, like me, loved gruesome Russian folktales as a kid.
 

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Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :
 
Well, yes, it certainly does have those elements, but my point is that there's nothing hideously traumatic in it.
 

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Posted by just-a-min (Member # 7308) on :
 
Enchantment is a gem. It is a book I will read again and again.
The main characters start out in the Sleeping Beauty motif but then are challenged by a roller coaster of a plot. Their beliefs and expectations are ripped and shreaded and they are forced to work together.
Russian folktales were a whole new nasty world for me. OSC makes it fun and, as ever, thought provoking.
 

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Posted by IanO (Member # 186) on :
 
Then, too, you have to keep in mind that OSC's earlier works are more raw. They are more visceral. So books like Wyrms, Hart's Hope (a great book), Worthing Saga and even Pastwatch (though that was in 95, I think, so at the tail end of his older style) are bloody and filled with pain and catharsis (or hideously traumatic as someone put it).

Enchantment and Lovelock and most of his later works make the danger/action more subtle, indirect, and/or off-screen (or, in the case of Enchantment, the villainess is somewhat comical while still a monster, which, IMO, loses some of the fear I'd have for her). That said, Enchantment is an absolutely beautiful book, especially Ivan and Katerina's relationship. It is so very touching.

I just reread Treasure Box and it was a fun romp. Nothing earth-shattering or cathartic, like Pastwatch, Speaker, or even Enchantment. But still fun. Same with Homebody.
 

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Posted by Cashew (Member # 6023) on :
 
My favourites are Pastwatch, Lost Boys, Enders Gane, Speaker, Wyrms, Seventh Son, and um, lots more. .The only Card books I haven't really enjoyed are Treasure Box and Homebody
 

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Posted by DF2506 (Member # 6847) on :
 
Well, I had to put Homebody aside for the moment, because I finally bought....
SHADOW OF THE GIANT today!!!

This is the first OSC book I've owned. The other books I've just read via library loan (aside: one of these days I hope to be able to buy my own copy of Speaker For the Dead, Xenocide, the rest of the Shadow books, and all of the Alvin books).

I'm really happy that I got Shadow of the Giant today and I couldn't wait to read it! I'm already on Chapter 14!

So far, its a really good book, imo.

Can't wait to read more of it!

DF2506
" I'm also looking forward to reading everyone elses comments on Shadow of the Giant when I'm done too. Including that post OSC made about his next Ender book. I've been trying to not read that because I don't want to spoil even a little bit of Shadow of the Giant."
 

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Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :
 
I dunno, I wouldn't call Pastwatch particularly earth-shattering or cathartic. When reading through it, I was struck by how downright nice Card was to those characters, with of course the exception of a particular scene that should make any male cringe.
 

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Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
Lost Boys was my favorite of the three listed. I think part of it was that I could really feel while reading it how connected to Card the story was (in the natural process of basically being about him).

Hobbes
 

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Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
 
I haven't read Lost Boys in quite awhile, but I'm in the middle of Homebody and just finished Treasure Box. So far I like Homebody better than Treasure Box. TB just didn't do much of anything for me, it seemed rather bland and the ending was just eh (IMO).
 

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Posted by DF2506 (Member # 6847) on :
 
TB just didn't do much of anything for me, it seemed rather bland and the ending was just eh>

I'm the opposite. I liked TB alot. I was really suprised by the ending too (its not often that there's a happy ending in an OSC book).

Homebody, on the other hand, is a bit bland to me. Don't know about the ending though, because I haven't got to it yet.

I may or may not go back to Homebody after finishing Shadow of the Giant. I'm not sure yet.

It really depends on when my new books are in at the library. If Pastwatch, Lovelock, and Maps in a Mirror show up at the library soon, then I'll read them after Shadow and prob take Homebody back (without finishing it). Then I'll prob either start by reading some of the short stories or maybe I'll just dive right into Lovelock, which seemed really interesting to me.

If the books are not in soon though, well I'll try to finish Homebody.

At the pace I'm going on Shadow of the Giant though, I should be done with it soon. lol! I'm on Chapter 19 now! So I'll prob end up going back to Homebody, unless my new books come in this week!

Anyway, Shadow of the Giant is a really good book so far.

I suspect though, that some of the later chapters will be the best of the book.

Anyway, Shadow of the Giant was a really good buy. I hope to get more OSC books soon!

DF2506
" I'd like to buy Speaker For the Dead next. Thats my favorite of the Ender books. I know I'd read that book over and over again! "
 

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Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
 
Of the OSC bibliography, I'd put Enchantment and the Alvin series at the top, with both Ender series running a close second. Pastwatch and Wyrms and Treason and his short stories all run after that, with Treasure Box, Homebody, and the Homecoming series coming in last.

Of course, by "last" I mean I only reread them once every 5 years or so, as opposed to the ones more regularly. Alvin and Ender get completely reread every time a new one comes out, and Enchantment is on my Palm Pilot as one of the books I keep with me at all times.
 

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Posted by R. Ann Dryden (Member # 8186) on :
 
I am actually waiting on the Alvin ones for now. I read the first several a few years ago, and the first two I have read multiple times, but I got to the end (at the time) and was so emotionally involved with the characters and was so upset that I couldn't read more that I decided not to re-read the series again until the last book is out, then I will probably plow through them all in a week. I own them, though. I own most of his books. I just need to get Lovelock and his newest couple, the new Shadow and the forthcoming Magic Street.

And I have a confession on the Shadow front too, I have only read Ender's Shadow. I want to wait until the rest come out on that series as well, because otherwise I know I will be terribly depressed for the next couple years, waiting to know how it turns out. Personally, I think I will enjoy this branch a bit more than the SFTD branch because I always really wanted to know what happened to the other kids in the battle school. I am also looking forward to when he connects the series, which I hear is in the works.
 

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Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :
 
Hey, Chris, where does Lost Boys go in that list?
 

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Posted by DF2506 (Member # 6847) on :
 
Wow. I just finished Shadow of the Giant today (already!) and it was just a great book!

I was right about the ending too.

Though, I liked the ending ALOT better then Lost Boys or Children of the Mind.

It was just a perfect ending. Sad, but perfect.

My thanks goes out to OSC for another great book!

I'm definitly going to read this book again. Especially those last two chapters. Those are my favorite chapters of the book! So sad...*sigh*

Anyway, I'll prob go back to reading Homebody now. Though its going to be very hard for Homebody to live up to or even get close to Shadow of the Giant.

DF2506
" Will definitly go read OSC's thread about the next Ender book first."
 

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Posted by Omega M. (Member # 7924) on :
 
To me Treasure Box felt "stiffer" than a lot of OSC books, sort of as if I was reading a television script. (There did seem to be a lot of long dialogues not broken up with any third-person narration at all.) Also, the surprise near the end really felt like it came out of nowhere, despite the foreshadowings that were pointed out in the story once it happened.

It wasn't bad in the absolute sense, but it's probably one of the worst OSC books I've read.
 

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Posted by DF2506 (Member # 6847) on :
 
^^Well, to each his own.

I'm not saying Treasure Box is one of OSC's best, but I enjoyed it. Liked how it had a good ending too.

Now, that said, I'm in the minority when it comes to Ender's Game, which is one of my least favorite OSC novels (if not my least favorite. I might even put Children of Mind before it, and I don't care for how that one ended). Most people who like OSC think of Ender's Game as a classic. Not me.

I admit EG has some good stuff in it, like the ending twist, but otherwise it is, imo, a so-so novel (though, still, I recongize that its very important to setting up Speaker and the rest of the Ender/Bean books).

Now Speaker For the Dead, I love. That novel is just amazing. So is Xenocide. SO are the Bean novels and the Alvin novels. Those are my favorite OSC novels.

As for Treasure Box, I liked it. It wasn't great, but it was a good read, imo.

Homebody though, I just can't get back into. I doubt I'm going to finish it. Well, maybe I will. I don't know. *sigh*

At the moment I just want Lovelock, Pastwatch, and Map in a mirror to get here. I can't wait to read those!

DF2506
" Lost Boys was, overall, a good book (better then TB even), but because of the ending I doubt I'll ever read it again. Too depressing for me."
 

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Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
 
I just finished Homebody about an hour ago and I can't decide how I feel about it. I don't want to spoil anything, but I'm getting the sense this type of book just isn't for me. It held my interest well enough, but the endings are never satisfying. I don't think I'm too into the story for it to be gripping/scary/what have you, which makes the ending almost seem over the top.
 

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Posted by aiua (Member # 7825) on :
 
You said that the concept of Treason was too bizarre- I can agree. However, it was far from uninteresting. Sure, the story is all over the place, but it was actually quite fun to read. However, like Kojabu said, the endings are never satisfying.
I put off reading it, pretty much because of the cover and the back, which I'm very ashamed to say. But, if memory serves, I don't think it was remotely similar to what the back said and the cover had no importance what so ever.
So, I guess the point of this is- Don't be..scared, for lack of a better word, to read Treason. It's definately different, and doesn't really read like his other books, but it's definately worth reading.
 

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Posted by 0range7Penguin (Member # 7337) on :
 
I have not read treason yet. I their a difference between treason and a planet called treason because if their is I might want to read them both.
 

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Posted by R. Ann Dryden (Member # 8186) on :
 
A Planet Called Treason was the original title when the book was first published. Years afterward, OSC went back and revised the novel, tightening it a bit and basically using some techniques he had since learned to make the book better, then he re-released the book under the title of Treason. So I would just read Treason, unless you want a kind of before-and-after type thing.
 

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Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :
 
I can't even find Treason. Any pointers?
 

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Posted by just-a-min (Member # 7308) on :
 
I found A Planet Called Treason at my local library and a paperback copy of Treason at a used bookstore. At the store I frequent, you can put in requests for a specific book, author, or series and if they come across the item, they will notify you and give you first dibs!
 

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Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
 
The main reason Treason doesn't read like my other books is that it's entirely in first person. That was a mistake (it's too limiting; third person is far freer and more immediate), but I still like the story.

Not every story will please every reader, and only a foolish writer even hopes they will. I write many different kinds of stories knowing perfectly well that some readers will be in the audience for only one of those kinds, not the others. I'm happy when some readers of my Women of Genesis books, for instance, cross over and sample my sci-fi and like it; but most of the natural audience for Sarah and Rebekah and Rachel&Leah is not going to be thrilled with Hart's Hope or Treason <grin>.

Heck, I'm just glad that anybody likes ANY of the books - and that there are enough of those people that I can support my family without actually working.
 

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Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
 
I actually like the fact that Treason is written in the first person, it's such a change from the rest of them. If someone had handed it to me with the author's name removed from every page I don't think I would peg the book as being by OSC. It's the third non series OSC book that I'm reading in a row (previously having read Treasure Box and Homebody, which I could tell were written by the same author, though maybe not the same author as the Ender series).
 

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Posted by Bekenn (Member # 6602) on :
 
Well, Lovelock was first-person and still excellent, but then, the pov was one of the more insignificant differences between that book and all the others.

Oh, yeah:
Get back to work on Rasputin! No more ice cream until it's done!
 

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Posted by DF2506 (Member # 6847) on :
 
Today I got Maps In the Mirror, Lovelock, and Pastwatch: the Redemption of Christopher Columbus via library loan.

I started to read the first story of Maps, but I just couldn't or maybe I didn't want to get into it. lol. I may try to read it again though.

So, anyway, I decided, 'what the heck? I'll go read the Lost Boys story." So I read the Lost Boys short story.

And I got to say, I like the short story better. Of course, the Lost Boys novel is much more emotional and you get to know the characters better and its much more sad and depressing, but what I liked so much about the short story was that it was told from OSC's point of view, the first person narrative. Not only that but we get details about OSC's life, like writing Hart's Hope and Ender's Game, life with his family, and his job. This makes the story feel more real and since the story is so short, we get a much faster paced story (one of my complaints about the Lost Boys novel was that it was very slow paced at times) and I liked that.

And finally I could see what some people were talking about with Lost Boys the novel (that I didn't see there). In this short story, its a sad ending, yet its not a downer. Its a short about loss, but the ending is amazing and beautiful. Its perfect.

I think with Lost Boys, I just had much more time to see all the characters and get to know them, so when the ending hit me in the book it was like, " Oh man.." and I was sad and a bit depressed. But with the short story, its much more like "its sad that the family lost their child, but its so amazing that they could handle it like that and that they got to say goodbye and so did the other Lost Boys parents."

I just liked the short story much better.

Or maybe its just the fact that I already knew the ending. So I just wasn't so depressed and sad about it this time. Who knows.

This was a better experiance for me though. I enjoyed reading it more then I enjoyed the book.

Anyway, I'm not sure what story I'm going to read next. I was going to read them in order, but I'll prob be skipping around in the book alot. lol.

I do want to try and read them all though. Or at least most of them.

And I definitly want to read Pretence Alvin and the No-Good Plow. In fact..I might read that next!

Edit: I just read the No-Good Plow and I have to say it was one of the best poems I've ever read. Of course, I like the Alvin series quiete a bit, so maybe I'm biased. lol. But wow. It was a really good poem. I'm glad I got to read it!

It makes me want to read Master Alvin even more *hint**hint* to OSC.

DF2506
" I'm at work and I only have the short story book here with me. I may start reading Lovelock when I get home though and put the short story book aside for awhile."

[ June 27, 2005, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: DF2506 ]
 

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Posted by musyklvr (Member # 8279) on :
 
re. _maps in a mirror_ it took me a long time to get through it (and not only because it's a long book!). for some reason, one of my favorite stories was the really gory "a thousand deaths." i also loved "unaccompanied sonata." being a music major, that work was particularly poignant for me.

re: _lost boys_ i remember reading it and really liking it. sad, but memorable. i had a hard time rereading it, though.

re _treason_ it was very disturbing the first time i read it, but i love it. i got my copy from a friend i met online a long time ago, so i was lucky. i absolutely adore it, though...the different powers and cultures of the people on the planet. if only a hint of that kind of creativity flowed through *my* veins!

re _homebody_ ok, so i own this book. i didn't realize it one time while i was at the library. i borrowed it because i thought, "hey, orson scott card i haven't read yet." clearly, it didn't make a very big impression on me. lol

enough for now...i need to stop rambling. thanks for at least giving me the opportunity to.

*love and sunshine*
jessyka
 

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Posted by DF2506 (Member # 6847) on :
 
I started to read Lovelock last night and I read some of it today too. Its an interesting book.

Despite the fact that, sometimes, the main character can be gross, you do get to like him and root for him. I am interested in seeing what happens to Lovelock.

Anyway, I plan to read Pastwatch after this and then after that, I'll get back to Maps in a mirror. I actually have Maps in the Mirror till the 21 of July, while the other two books have to be back the 19th. SO I've definitly have more time to read Maps then the others.

I'm looking forward to reading all three books.

After I've finished these books, I'll prob check out Enchantment. Not sure what else yet. lol.

DF2506
" If I get the chance, I'm going to try and buy Speaker For the Dead next month. IF I do, I'll definitly re-read that soon! "
 

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Posted by Leia Atreides (Member # 9227) on :
 
I read Treason... I liked it overall, but it's not the book I would re-read on purpose for going philosophical or something alike. Then I read Wyrms, and I would re-read that most definitely.

I think those two books have much in common (I felt insecure enough when reading both of them, and the rawness of them both makes it more interesting). And I really liked that idea with cross dress of Lanik and Hypomene (well, Lanik already was part-girl, but that doesn't count)- characters in disguise are real fun, with so much people around them mistaken (at least for a little bit). And I really loved that those weren't dumb characters who thought they're invisible just because they're wearing the clothes of the opposite sex, and rather cared how to act and the way of they speech. Something I don't encounter in fantasy too commonly (it's maybe because I don't read the right branch of fantasy)
 

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Posted by Omega M. (Member # 7924) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Orson Scott Card:

But with my hands tied by the rules of point of view (what, was I going to have the narrator step in and say, "Little did they know ..."?), I tried a quick-and-dirty "fix" of the problem - I put that two-page prologue at the beginning from the point of view of "Boy." I hoped that would be vile enough to let you know that this fictional world was inhabited by somebody dangerous and sick.

Instead, the opening simply repelled a lot of readers who thought that that vile point of view would keep coming up (it never does), and I don't think it helped other readers at all.

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I already knew the plot from the short story, but if I hadn't I think that without that opening I would have been very confused as to where the story was going. Currently I'm in the middle of Chapter 6; and the story seems to have been split pretty evenly between Step and DeAnne, with no particular problem standing out as the main problem of the story. Because of this I often have trouble motivating myself to pick the book up, although it's very well written and interesting throughout. I can imagine that if I had no idea about the serial killer I'd have probably given up by now. As it is, I'm spending a lot of time wondering when we're going to get to him (though it's neat that at least two people have jumped out as possibilities).
 

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Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
I thought Homebody was magnificent. It's one of my favorites. I think Homebody and Lost Boys are the only OSC books that got me to cry.
 

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Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
 
Hey, Chris, where does Lost Boys go in that list?

Nearly a year later I finally notice this

Lost Boys would, for me, probably fall between Pastwatch and Wyrms, right along with Songmaster. It's actually harder for me to reread than it was the first time because since I know what's going to happen, the events of the book are that much more painful. But I love the family, all the things about them that are so very different from my own combined with the things I found so very familiar.

Example: mention is made of Mrs. Fletcher being nervous around a parent who didn't watch her kids as closely. Teres and I hate going to malls because we find ourselves acting as unpaid and unrequested guardians of every unattended kid that goes anywhere near an escalator. When we saw the movie Eyes Wide Shut we were heckling (pretty much start to finish) but at the end, when the main characters are having their big moment, we were openly yelling at the screen. "Where's your kid? You're in a busy toy store in New York City, where's your freaking kid keep an eye on your kid why aren't you watching your kid!"
 

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Posted by Kin (Member # 9246) on :
 

quote:

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You'll bawl your eyes out

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