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Don't you think that with the help of Bean's DNA that the scientists of the time found away to turn Anton's key without the nonstop growing?

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No.

The way that Anton's key worked was through the nonstop growing.

If they found some other method to create super geniuses that did not include nonstop growing, it would not be Anton's key.
 

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Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
 
I've thought of something like that too (That's my other sn) Great minds think alike
 

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Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
 
On the other hand, small thinkers tend to congregate.
 

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Posted by Monroe by Warhol (Member # 8999) on :
 

!!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!


...

mr_porteiro_head, you are right on:-). The are certain genetic flips in the genome, at least that's how Anton explained it in Shadow Puppets... So there would be no way for there to be only intelligence without the growth. Anyway, where would all the new brainstuff go if the head didn't get bigger?

Ciao.
 

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Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
 
To Blades and Gaal, I'm glad to know that others have also made this connection, I recently put forth such an idea in Beans Descendens (Spoiler Alert).
 

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Posted by airmanfour (Member # 6111) on :
 
Yup, i've thought of this too, flipping from a defect that promotes continuous growth to a defect tied to OCD. It wasn't that big a leap in my mind, but my training in the field of genetics is somewhat less than minimal.
 

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Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
People have putting forth this connection since the publication of the Shadow series (at least the volumes where Anton's key is revealed).

Without looking too hard, you can even find the thread where OSC details why that's not possible.
 

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Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
It is possible though, that Bean has some connection with the Descoladores. Why not? It would be a bit far fetched, but maybe he meets them all those millenia before ender gets to lusitania
 

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Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
 
Just remember that although Bean himself might be long dead by the time Ender reaches Lusitania, his children that have Anton's key might still be alive aboard the ship that Bean left in.
 

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Posted by Monroe by Warhol (Member # 8999) on :
 
ooo ooo i just made the connection! THANK YOU ORINCORO!!!!! I mean, maybe Bean created the Descolada for some reason or another? cause they did say that the virus was definatly artificial... WOW I'M EXCITED!!

lol, what a rant.

Ciao
 

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Posted by Eva Scrye (Member # 8960) on :
 
Hmm, I think it's unnecessary to try and tie these things together. I think they're very different books and shouldn't need to be connected through such... stretches of the imagination.

But I won't stop entertaining speculation... so by all means continue ^_^
 

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Posted by HectorVictor (Member # 9003) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:

quote:

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Don't you think that with the help of Bean's DNA that the scientists of the time found away to turn Anton's key without the nonstop growing?

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No.

The way that Anton's key worked was through the nonstop growing.

If they found some other method to create super geniuses that did not include nonstop growing, it would not be Anton's key.

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quote:

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Originally posted by CRash:
I think it's sort of silly to have everything in the series be that interconnected. It's simply not realistic. I would be more pleased with new, inventive origins rather than old connections--particularly with the descolada.

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Well, you have to remember that every single one of the Jeesh were sent to lead colony worlds (with the exception of Petra and Bean). I'm not sure where the whole Japanese-ness of Path came from though, considering that Han Tzu was Chinese, but maybe Graff was a little less strict on his "same nationality" hypothesis, and opened Han Tzu's ship open to all eastern Asians, and predominately Japanese citizens signed up. It would make sense, seeing they had typically been isolationists, and when Peter finally united everyone (except those darn Americans, lol I am from the U.S. ), some Japanese citizens might have been upset for their government going against traditional viewpoints.

However, I don't think OSC (nothing against him), or anyone was thinking that far ahead when he wrote the end of the Ender series, but that it was rather coincidence that he was looking for an asian name, and one popped into his head because he had used it before, and simply rearranged it a little, and viola, Han Tzu happened to be in there! But, we can never be sure about anything unless we have a testimonial from the big man, himself.
 

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Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by CRash:
I think it's sort of silly to have everything in the series be that interconnected. It's simply not realistic. I would be more pleased with new, inventive origins rather than old connections--particularly with the descolada.

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quote:

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Originally posted by HectorVictor:
I'm not sure where the whole Japanese-ness of Path came from though, considering that Han Tzu was Chinese,
.

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Your getting confused, Path is most decidedly CHINESE, there is another planet in Children of the Mind which is "japanese," but its not Path.
 

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Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
 
Monroe as much as I respect you on many topics, in this case you are wrong, the Descolada was created by a third alien race that was discovered at the end of CotM.
 

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Posted by HectorVictor (Member # 9003) on :
 
Man, I can't comment about that, cuz I only got about halfway done with CotM...

And thank you Orincoro for your clarification, I just remembered that most of the colony worlds were actually Japanese, or something about the humanverse was predominately Japanese, hence Peter's big speech to that "one guy" about central and outsider countries.
 

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Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
I notice that OSC's comments are strangely absent from this thread. I would imagine that these are all questions that he is/will be considering when he sits down to actually pen Shadows in Flight. That book is supposed to tie together both storylines.

As for my two cents, I entirely think that the people of Path are directly related to the research that was done by Anthon and Volescue(sp?). I would be willing to hypothese that congress eventually found a solution to Bean's condition, but did not call him home to cure him because he was an unknown factor. Perhaps by the time the cure or whatever discovered enough years had passed by that those in charge either a) figured that Bean and his children were long dead or b) did not want Bean and his children to return to earth ever. I think that the latter is the most likely. I imagine the memory of the wars and strife caused by Ender's Jeesh running amok on the earth during the early days of colonization would be enough for those in charge to never want Bean to return. Think of what they did to the people of Path to stop the just the POSSIBILITY of these super geniuses going renegade. Add that fear to the memory of the great and terrible Bean, the brightest of Ender's Jeesh. Having him return to the speed of the living would be like (to them) having Gengis Khan or Hilter suddenly show up. Congress would probably have him and his kids killed just to eliminate the threat that he posed. Especially a Bean that now did not have anyone of his genius and experience to oppose his relentless quest for power and control of the UNIVERSE!!!! Bwahahahahahaha!!

Well that's my theory anyways.
 

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Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
 
WHAT!? Bean was the one who had no ambition, why would he want to control the universe?
 

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Posted by HectorVictor (Member # 9003) on :
 
=====SPOILERS FOR SOTG=====


Yeah, Advent has got it right on this one. If you remember the meeting Graff had with all of the Jeesh (with the exception of Alai and Petra) towards the end of SotG, Bean explains, with the help of Dink (I think it was him or Carn?) how he does not have any ambition whatsoever. The only reason he does anything that he does is for one of two reasons. The first one is for survival of himself, the thing his brain was trained to do ever since he hid in the toilet to escape death, all the way through Rotterdam and up to his escapades with Carlotta. The second reason was if what he was doing would protect his new family, namely Petra and his children.

That was the only reason he helped Peter during his quest to unite the world; Bean thought that if the world ceased to wage war, his children would be safe in it, not to mention that if Achilles was dead, there would be much less worry about anyone trying to kidnap or kill them.

However, one hypothesis that might hold water for your theory is that, in a manner similar to how people of the future colony worlds, and the rest of humanity, for that matter, perceived Ender as a horrible person, namely the Xenocide, the same process could have ocurred with Bean, in that people may have forgotten what a nice man he was and how he helped save humanity twice, once from aliens and once from itself.
(Dang, an 80 word grammatically correct sentence!!) (Why did you just count to 80?)
Instead, they may have remembered him falsely as a monster instead of the Giant, as the Rwandans loved him.

Edit: In any case, I still don't think this was likely.
 

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Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
 
HectorVictor wins the prize!!! Ding! That was the point I was trying to make but obviously failed to so. Specifically I was trying to apply that perception about Bean to Starways Congress. As Bean was supposed to be dead in real life, his continued existance would only be known a select few military personnel. If their perception of who he was or what his ambitions were had changed (just as the public's perception of Ender had changed), the desire to bring him home would likely evaporate. I point to the extremes that the leaders of congress went to keep the secret of Path's genetic manipulation from becoming public. I could only assume that if the military leaders knew that one of the fabled Jeesh was still alive with his potentially brillant offspring and waiting to be called home, that in their calculations they would probably think it very unwise to bring this equivalent of a minor deity back into existence. Not to mention back from the dead. If that that were true, it would set up Bean's or his children's return after Children of the Mind because Jane would have discovered Bean's existance through her research into the genetic manipulation of the people of Path. That would be somewhat logical if the science involved on Path was based on Anton's research.

FYI, I really don't think that it is a viable theory either, but it occupied my brain for a little bit, so at least it served some purpose.
 

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Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
 
Well said Hector, well said. :clapping:
 

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