Pinocchio, which makes sense given the constant theme of being human/ not quite being human and not knowing the difference.
Shakespeare, espc. the Tempest, but also other plays.
I am guessing that I probably missed a ton from the Bible and Book of Mormon, although perhaps he deliberitly keeps out the Book of Mormon.
All right, now let's see how many we can think of and maybe he will clue us in to ones we missed.
[ March 22, 2006, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Orson Scott Card ]
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
quote:although perhaps he deliberitly keeps out the Book of Mormon.
Read the Homecoming series yet?
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
No.
Posted by Hank (Member # 8916) on :
In ender's Shadow there is a recurring allusion to the bible verse where David laments Absalom's death.
Posted by scholar (Member # 9232) on :
Alvin series has LDS references. One of Alvin's experiences- the leg problem when he was young is very similar to a famous story about joseph smith. Homecoming is a retelling of the Book of Mormon and women of the Bible has some definite LDS influences. So, his religion is very evident in the works if you know what to look for. I haven't yet decided if I should tell my mom about homecoming series or not- not sure if she would find it blasphemous (I didn't, but that doesn't mean much).
Posted by Vazor (Member # 9267) on :
Eh, it doesn't really count as blasphemous. My father and I are both devout Catholics; I enjoyed Homecoming, and he enjoyed The Divinci Code. The thing is, you have to approach them as what they are: fiction. Extremely well-written fiction. But blasphemous? Not a chance.
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
Alvin's dream in Red Prophet, in which he takes one bite of a white fruit that fills him with all kinds of emotions, and he's laughed at and mocked for it by everyone he knows, and he is filled with a desire to share the fruit with his family - is an allusion to Lehi's dream in the Book of Mormon.
Haven't read it in a while, but I'd bet that same dream shows up in the Homecoming series.
Posted by johnplaystuba (Member # 8792) on :
i'm not entirely sure if there's some kind of historical significance behind Mama Squirrel and Papa Moose in 'The Crystal City' but I couldn't help but think there was a Rocky and Bullwinkle allusion whenever someone mentions 'The house of Moose and Squirrel.' heh.
and yes, JennaDean, there's a dream in 'the Ships of Earth' when Volemak [the protagonist's father]eats fruit from a 'tree of life' and invites everyone to share it with him
Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
The Women of Genesis series is basically one long biblical allusion.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Johnplaystuba, Papa Moose and Mama Squirrel are members here at Hatrack (and yes, they are married to each other). The characters in the book are named for them. That said,I'm sure that Card wasn't unaware of the Bullwinkle reference when he created characters named for them.
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
If you read the acknowledgments, you'll see he includes references both to me and Mama and to Rocky and Bullwinkle.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Papa Moose, composing my response to johnplaystuba got me wondering how long you'd been here. I know that you were Uncle Moose before Mooslet was born; was that your first ID here? Were you around in the Bigmouth Lion days?
Posted by JemmyGrove (Member # 6707) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lissande: The Women of Genesis series is basically one long biblical allusion.
I know I may be quibbling about semantics a bit here, but I don't think the Women of Genesis series can really be called an allusion. To allude to something generally implies an indirect reference, meaning the source is not named or cited, but anyone who is familiar with the source will recognize the reference to it. The Wikipedia article has a few examples.
If the author says that Bean identified with the passage in the Old Testament where King David laments "O my son Absalom, my son, my son Absalom! would God I had died for thee," the author is making a direct reference to King David's words in the Old Testament. If Bean merely laments to himself "O my son, would God I had died for thee" without naming a reference or even hinting that he's referring to the words of someone else even though it's clear to anyone who knows that Old Testament passage that he's referring to it, then the author is making an allusion.
Except now that I look at it, the only obvious direct reference I can see in the Women of Genesis series to the Old Testament is the word 'genesis,' and that isn't really quite direct unless it follows 'The Book of' or something similar. Maybe the implied reference is strong enough to disqualify it as an allusion. And I have to confess I haven't read the series, so I guess I'm the wrong person to determine if it contains direct references to the Old Testament.
Posted by Zenox (Member # 8987) on :
In the shadow series, references to "holding all the cards" is common.
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
An allusion is where you refer to a literary work not present. Women of Genesis is not an allusion to Genesis any more than Paradise Lost is an allusion to Genesis. Rather they're a retelling of a familiar story.
But there are allusions all over the place. Can't help it - it just happens. For instance, in Hart's Hope, I have a Molly Bloom, just for the fun of it. But it spoils the fun if I point them out. Plus I don't remember a tenth of them.
They don't MEAN anything, though, except (a) I read (or know of) the work in question and (b) for some reason I wanted to call on the readers' knowledge of that source in order to shed light on the present moment in the story I'm telling.
Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
I'm almost reluctant to spoil all the pedantry going on, but I have to point out that Pelegius said something about probably not catching biblical allusions, implying, in my mind, that he doesn't know the Bible well. I took that to a goofy extreme by my quoted comment, implying he might not have noticed that WoG was based on part of the Bible.
But thank you for the helpful instruction - after all, my English atrophies a little every day from underuse. For all any of you know, I really don't know what an 'allusion' is any longer.
edit: should I start putting or big JOKE JOKE JOKE warnings around my less-than-serious posts? I've always avoided that when possible, but maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea. Posted by JemmyGrove (Member # 6707) on :
*sheepishly* I would find a wink helpful.
Thank you for replying with grace to my ineptitude. You could easily have made me REALLY feel like a moron. Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
Noemon, yes, I was around in the BML days (though I only posted a very few times). I first visited Hatrack in mid-1998 or so. Uncle Moose was my first screenname for the ubb format forum.
--Pop
Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
Sorry Jemmy, I was feeling pissy. I shouldn't take it out on the (largely ) innocent. (See? A wink!)
I wasn't kidding about my English atrophying, though I think it would have to be pretty far gone for me to forget what an allusion is. My literature degree was only...*counts*...*wasn't a math major for a reason*...four years ago. Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
Didn't mean to sound pedantic. I read quickly and sometimes miss irony. Besides, you've been on the boards long enough - is there anything so obvious that SOMEBODY doesn't miss it? So I try (usually nicely) to relieve whatever looks like ignorance; and if it turns out to have been irony, well, the joke was on me, then, wasn't it! <grin>.
[ April 02, 2006, 01:51 AM: Message edited by: Orson Scott Card ]
Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :
It was just along the lines, in my mind, of someone responding seriously to a "Haley Joel Osment" comment! (Does that even happen any more?)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
or big JOKE JOKE JOKE warnings around my less-than-serious posts? I've always avoided that when possible, but maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea. ![[Cry]](graemlins/cry.gif)
![[Blushing]](graemlins/blushing.gif)