This is topic Letter from Grandma (An Epilogue of Sorts) in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.


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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
2/7/03 I will post a link to the latest letter shortly on my website (I actually) have one now! It is another gem of grandmotherly wisdom

AJ

I received this in the mail today. My grandmother was the author. I thought about putting it in the "Religious Beliefs No Arguing Allowed" thread but didn't think it was quite in the spirit JonBoy intended.

quote:

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<font face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica" size="2">
Dear Anna Jo,

Just wanted you to have this C D to listen to. #2 reminds me of you Anna Jo [the CD is a gospel/country cd with some of the most hideous murderations of old hymns I've heard in a long while] . It is no secret what God can do! What He's done for others He will do for you.

Did you know Janice Raush [my aunt... like I don't know her full name] will have her shoulder operated on to shorten tendons on March 20? We will all be praying for her. It went out again a month ago. She never knows when it will happen, so now - it will be fixed.
Janice & Glenn want you to come to live with them and make an escape from that boy you are living with. She was waiting til after her operation. It is her right arm, so she will need help for a while. All of us will try to have her over for meals or take meals over to her house. They have a fenced in yard for your dogs & an extra room for you in the new building they are putting on their house- 2car garage with room and rear of house & upstairs long kitchen & living room. Construction should start as soon as the ground thaws. In the mean time you would sleep in the rec room with the fireplace downstairs

Dad [my grandfather] & I have been reading about the girl who was kidnapped and brain washed. We think this has happen to you! [grammar and puctuation verbatim]
Just put yourself in God's hands & get on a plane & come. You mom will be here (May 29 to June 12). Get someone to get your dogs, so you can send for them later on. These are perilous times & God is bringing many young people to a Saving Faith in Christ. Especially those boys in harms way in Kuwait living in tents. We are in the last days before Jesus comes to rapture His church. II Tim. 3:1

Janice & Glenn will join the Millersville Bible Church this Sunday. The children sing there on March 30. We will go to hear them sing again. A lovely small church. Our Calvary Church is wonderful & big. All Christians should link together now for our President & nation & pray more.

Trust in Jesus as I did when I was 23! You will have a new life, all things will become new (II Cor.5:17) The Holy Spirit will help you be an overcomer. We all love you & are anxious to see you again. No one ever cared for you like Jesus. No one else can take the sin & darkness from you. Oh how much He cares for you. Love, XOXO Mamaw

[crawling around the side of the page] -> Your mom told Janice it would be great if you escaped to PA. (Janice and Glenn said there are lots of jobs here.)
</font>

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edit to fix ubb... in the originals, all bolds were actually underlines.

[This message has been edited by BannaOj (edited March 17, 2003).]

[ January 23, 2008, 02:52 AM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
 

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Posted by Dragon (Member # 3670) on :
 
Wow.

...your reaction? Do you think you're being brainwashed/need an escape?
 

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Posted by Troubadour (Member # 83) on :
 
Oh Jeez, BannaOj, what can I say - that must've been tough.... do you want to give a bit more background for us to put this in perspective.

Nevertheless - I feel for you.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
That post is a frightening example of a particular stereotype that I'd find funny if it weren't so darn powerful.

 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
That operation sucks and doesn't work very well. They told me that it only had a 10% success rate. Sounds like your Aunt needs a personal maid for 8 weeks. She's going to have that arm casted at a 90o angle for that long, I believe. That's what they told me, anyway.

Banna, why do you torture yourself. You know, I read Dear Abby (no, really, it's true ) and she says that occasionally, you just have to cut off toxic people. I think this is one of those situations. I did it for quite a while and was quite happy with the decision. It took me 5 years to put enough distance before I could deal with the snide insults, and even now, it's for my son.

I wish you luck.
 

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Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
 
*Is very very afraid for you*

I am SO sorry! I really don't think anyone at the age of 23 needs brainwashing from their family members. Wasn't growing up with them enough?
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Well some of you know more about my grandma than others. Her letters provided entertainment for my entire dorm floor my freshman year of college.

For those of you who don't know, I am a chemical engineer. When I decided on chemical engineering as a major I received numerous letters saying that girls shouldn't be engineers. Women should only go to school long enough to catch themselves a man and remain barefoot and pregnant until menopause regardless of education. Five of my 7 aunts have college degrees and don't work. If they worked, even while their husbands are unemployed, she'd consider disowning them. Preachers and missionaries (LDS excluded) are preferred, she still hasn't gotten over the fact that I went to a state school rather than a Christian one even though I had a full scholarship. This despite there are few to none fundamentalist Christian colleges that have engineering programs, and none with Chemical engineering. Catholic schools don't count, neither does BYU. The Mormons might be slightly more heathen then the Catholics, but both are going to HELL.

All girls who are engineers are sluts that sleep with the professors so that they can pass the classes because of course they aren't smart enough on their own. No guy will ever marry a smart girl. Make sure you leave tracts in phone booths for people to read. Rush Limbaugh is too liberal.

No guy will ever want a girl with dogs. (She didn't know I had the bf before the dogs) She still doesn't know that my boyfriend is white and black/cuban/jamacian in ancestry. He is light skinned enough that hopefully she won't have a heart attack until she sees his father, since colored people are the hired help.

This is a sampling. She can rarely write a coherent sentence, and jumps from subject to subject more frequently and much more randomly than the above. I have saved her letters over the past 6 years in a scrapbook and contemplate publishing them from time to time.

This time she went too far though. Even my mother who is generally on Grandma's side and wants me away from my evil boyfriend, even laughed at the idea of me taking care of my aunt Janice's bratty children who have driven me up the wall for years. In all the years I have never written back, and I'm debating whether I should ignore it this time. I have no idea whether my lazy Aunt Janice knows that my grandmother has cooked this up or not. The likelihood of a co-conspiracy is equally as likely as a unilateral act. By the way there are 5 other sets of uncles and aunts as well as numerous other older grandchildren, who could help my aunt... not to mention her oldest who is 14, though he may be so spoiled as to be incapable of being useful.

 

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Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
 
That's my grandma, too. I cut her off.

((Banna))
 

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Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
 
Though I should add that, while I think I'm better off now than I was before, it's still crushing. Movies like The Royal Tenenbaums leave me a soggy little mess for the evening.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
I'm 24 now, I guess I should update my profile. As far as cutting off toxic people, I don't actually normally read the letters she sends. I haven't talked to Mamaw in at least 6 months. Steve reads them for me, and tells me if there is any actual news, like my Aunt having shoulder surgery.

This one however made him mad. It was by far her worst ever. It used to be lots of veiled references, now she is just spouting it out directly. In some ways that makes it better, because it is obvious how nuts she is.

AJ
 

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Posted by Toretha (Member # 2233) on :
 
*winces*

oh, goodness, I'm so sorry you have to deal with a grandmother like that

((((Banna)))
 

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Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
 
Got the 23 from the letter, actually. Although now that I think about it, I seem to remember having another discussion with you where age came about. I'm turning 25 this April.

*smile* At least you can laugh it off. There's always that. Just be sure to keep your distance enough so that you can keep your sanity.

*Admires you a great deal for sticking with Chemical Engineering* I went into Computer Engineering and just couldn't cut it. My good friend was so upset because I left her the only girl in the program. I've really enjoyed the natural sciences, though.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
the age 23 was Grandma refering to her salvation date.

AJ
 

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Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
AJ, you already know how I feel, I said it on AIM.

Bless you, poor thing putting up with this! Yes, there are Christians out there who act like this, every religion's got its fringe element.

*hugs* Just remember the advice I gave you on AIM - Say NO, don't apologize, and never give them a chance to try any guilt trip junk on you.
 

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Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
 
Oh wow - ouch.

And I thought the letters I got were bad.

Hang in there!

Remember - you do NOT have to play.

 

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Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
Just remember, Steve will always give you a noogie from me.

And really, how better to show you care?
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
yes... and a wedgie... you forget so quickly!

AJ
 

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Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
 
*hugs Banna*

Just remember, it's your life, not hers.
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
Wow Banna, that's just...that's something else.

I'm glad that you have the strength of character to go your own route in the face of crap like that coming from your family.

::already high respect for Banna goes up a notch or two::

[This message has been edited by Noemon (edited March 18, 2003).]
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Just to let you know, I have been angst ridden in the past about dealing with this woman. I feel guilty because if I deal with her directly it goes back to bite my mother in the rear. Anyway all of the angst basically left, at least temporarily after this letter. I mean the woman would kidnap me and attempt to re-brainwash me herself if she was physically capable of it. This has shown her lunacy in black and white.

Fortunately she has heart trouble (and I know that is a terrible thing to say, but I suspect you understand) so I don't have to put up with her visiting me here and attempt to forcibly drag me to Pensylvania.

Tom Davidson said it well

quote:

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That post is a frightening example of a particular stereotype that I'd find funny if it weren't so darn powerful.

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What else can I do but laugh. Insanity at this level isn't worth responding to directly.

AJ

 

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Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
 
"What else can I do but laugh. Insanity at this level isn't worth responding to directly."

Exactly. The woman is clearly batty, you're clearly well adjusted and your boyfriend isn't evil. At least, no more evil than you I suppose
Anyway, ignoring her has worked well thus far, just keep ignoring her and go play with your dogs.
And if she keeps writing you letters, hey, at least you're helping her put the day in, right?
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
When I dated someone my father didn't like, he actively and sincerely circulated the idea that when I got hit in Germany, it scrambled my brains and this was the consequence.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Thoughts that have been running through my head. I don't know whether I will act on them or not but they have been running through.

By the way Mamaw is convinced she is dying. She may be, because she has not made dietary changes or attempted to do minimal excercise and lost weight as the doctors have ordered her to do. She has congestive heart failure and medicine can only do so much without lifestyle changes. I also think she is too ornery to die quietly or easily.

I am "sorely tempted" to communicate to her via my mother and tell her that her chances of seeing me again while she is still alive diminish with every letter I get. Actually they may already be gone, but she doesn't know that. If she does die, I haven't decided whether I will go to the funeral or not. I probably will for my mother's sake alone. Afterward I guess I could dance on her grave.

Am I being too petty and mean-spirited? Should I have more compassion on an old, batty woman? If I should please tell me, I don't want to lower myself to her level.

AJ
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Go the funeral. Don't dance on the grave.

And visit her when she's asleep.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Visiting her in her sleep sounds like a plan... but I'll have to wait until she is ill enough she sleeps all day... I'm not going to make a long distance flight while she is still coherent enough to yell at me.

AJ
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Grandma strikes again... First of all taped to this letter is this "Dear Abby" We will never know what the letter writer asked because all we have is this answer:

quote:

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DEAR IN LOVEL Idle your motor. The man you have described appears to be fulfilling your material and physical needs, but not your emotional ones. It's up to you to decide how long you can live with two out of three. I hope you will wake up to the fact that you are being used, and that it will spur you on to find a man who truly loves you and is willing to make a committment

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quote:

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Dear Anna Jo,
Today I took Janice to her Dr. to have stitches removed from 3 holes in her shoulder. She is feeling fine now but can't drive & her arm is in a sling for 5-6 weeks. In case you can fly out here she can really use to help her. The foundation of ther home improvement is in & soon the new addtion will be on. It is cheep now to fly out here on North West into Harrisburg, PA. JAncies did not want her children to know that you have a boy friend in Chicago in your apt. They think you are a wonderful Christian and are anxious to see you.
(yes that was all one paragraph)

Tell me how come Aunt Ruth rates higher than your grandparents? She told us she got a picture. You know we love you & pray for you ever day even if you never thank us for anything. We know God will answer our prayers for you. There are wonderful jobs out our way & you could make a new start here with all your relatives, 19 cousins etc.

A change of scenery won't help unless there is a change of heart. Jesus is coming soon & you surely don't want to be left behind. You can't have your way & be happy. The hymm says- "Trust & Obey". there is no other way.

Love you so much.
XOXO Mamaw

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Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
And Grandma strikes again.

AJ, hang in there.
 

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Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
I hope tenacity runs in your family.
 

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Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
(((((BannaOj)))))

This is really sad. The only Grandmother I've really had contact with (the other one I only see every few years, but she is sick and doesn't really remember me) was incredibly understanding and loving to the day she died. I wish I could offer advice, but all I can do is give you an e-hug.

Hobbes
 

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Posted by Troubadour (Member # 83) on :
 

quote:

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Tell me how come Aunt Ruth rates higher than your grandparents? She told us she got a picture. You know we love you & pray for you ever day even if you never thank us for anything.

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Anna, this is pure selfish. The point of love and prayer is not about receiving credit or thanks - you do it because you feel it in your heart, not because you want recognition.

Don't let her guilt you into this. I've had similar grandparents, and you have to keep in mind one thing - she's just a person, and whatever connection she has to you has been forfeited by her refusal to you for who you are.

You don't need to go to her, or go to her funeral or visit her grave. She brings you nothing but pain, and there's nothing petty about the way you feel - she'd like you to think that, but it'd be another manipulative trick to try and get you close enough so she can work her guilt at close range.

I guess I feel this way because I have a sister who is adopted who I love to death, who has saved me from bankruptcy and jail - and never asked to be paid back. She's not of my blood, but we love each other and will always be there for each other. And I had grandparents who share my blood who died without having ever asked how I was for the ten years preceeding their deaths.

Blood is used too often as a tool for manipulating people. Don't let them.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
I wonder what happens if there is a "prayer clash" with God when her prayers and mine are diametrically opposed.

Actually the first one I printed was a very cauterizing letter. This last one didn't bother me at all. I mainly posted it as a a continuation. The previous letter gave a closure on the situation that I have never before felt. I have aproximately 4 years worth of these gems saved, but before a lot of it was snide veiled comments. Now she is actually coming out and saying what she really believes, which is refreshing in a sense.

AJ
 

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Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
 
Banna, I know exactly what you are going through. I did some of the things my grandmother wanted me to for my wedding and I regret it to this day (nothing religious - just involving some other relatives I would just as soon as never see again). It will be years before I can forgive her; I still have so much anger in my heart. Obviously it isn't just about the wedding - there were many, many events leading up to it. I'm glad you're strong and smart enought to avoid putting yourself in my position. Your aunt is mobile and she has a 14-year-old to help her. And what about those 19 cousins, can't they help?

One thing, though. Think about whether you want to reply to these letters or just throw them out. Your grandmother is never going to change and you will have to decide if you think she is motivated by love for you. Some people have trouble understanding that their idea of happiness doesn't apply to everyone else. Just make sure that you don't do or say anything you will regret later.

BTW, my grandmother started calling me an old-maid-in-waiting when I was 20.
 

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Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
 
Crazy old people fascinate me.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
I don't reply, in the 5 years or so I've been getting them I haven't ever. I have been taking my mother's advice, "If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all." All of the things that I would respond to the letters I know I would be ashamed to have had coming out of my mouth at a later date. Maybe it would be healthier to burn them rather to save them (I have the first three years of letters organized in a special scrapbook for the purpose and the rest in a file folder waiting to organize when I have time or need a catharsis) but part of me wants to save them as "evidence" if it ever should come to a knock down drag out verbal family brawl so that I have the proof to back up that she said what I say she said.

AJ
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
bump, for those of you who are interested in the back story.

AJ
 

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Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :
 
Three words to describe yor grandmother:

BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER.

My mother is one too. I have had no contact with her for four years and I'm not sorry.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
Yozhik,
Yes.
 

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Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
 
Call me crazy, but...

I don't think it's right to be angry with your Grandmother over this. Sure, she's a little kooky, but you know what? She has your best interests at heart. She honestly cares about the welfare of your immortal soul and whether or not that has any bearing on your life, at least it shows that she's concerned and worried for what will happen to you (to the best of her knowledge). I don't agree with her, I don't condone her accusations, but I do know where she's coming from - a place where she believes this with all her heart and wants the best for you.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Annie, it isn't so much anger, as it is frustration. Sometimes the frustration makes me angry, but really she's too pathetic a person to be angry at for long. The question is how do you deal with someone like this on a daily basis or deal with them at all?

Here at Hatrack we have people who passionately disagree with each other. Sometimes there is a bit of vitriol involved. But between the fluff threads, agreeing to disagree, and our wonderful moderators, we all get along for the most part. But how do you get along with someone who won't agree to let you disagree on any topic whatsoever? I mean I understand someone saying, I sincerely think you are wrong and would like you to believe as I do but it is your life not mine. That is respectful of both people involved. I don't see Grandma respecting anyone except herself, I mean she basically dictates to God what he should think and that is probably where the anger and frustration on my part comes in.

AJ
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
I also don't genuinely think it is concern and worry. Yes it is couched in those terms but it is concern and worry that I am no longer under her control anymore rather than true concern and worry about my immortal soul.

AJ
 

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Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
 
Anna, you're right. People like your grandma (and mine, sadly) are only concerned about the power thy have over people. And if they don't have the power to make you change, they would like to have the power to make you sad. But it's all about power, not love. And it's not sane.
EDIT to fix spelling mistakes

[ October 14, 2003, 06:58 AM: Message edited by: Anna ]
 

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Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
 
I'll back up Anna and Banna on this. It's hard to understand, I guess, unless you've actually had to deal with this situation, but some grandmothers, and mothers, and aunts, etc. are genuinely awful people who want nothing but to control every inch of their offspring's lives. For me, at least, it's come down to the realization that, despite her words of love and support, my grandmother, my only grandma, doesn't care about me any more than she cares about the fancy collector's plates hanging on her walls. I'm nothing more than a pet to be praised when I make her proud and punished when I pee on the rug. And if I do something she really disapproves of? Off to the pound for me. Totally cut off. Except, of course, to send me hate mail on my birthday.

(and maybe Banna's thinking "only once a year! how lucky!" )

Most people grow up with parents and grandparents who, despite their faults and foibles, sincerely love their children and grandchildren. Those people, I think, have a hard time understanding the few who are not so lucky.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
I'm amazed by the percentage of Hatrack women who've got controlling matriarchs.
 

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Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
 
Well, I think there was a pretty clear link between my unpleasant family life and my interest in escapist sci-fi as a kid...
 

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Posted by Jexxster (Member # 5293) on :
 
Wow, really an interesting (and tragic) story. Thanks for sharing (and bumping for those of us who are newcomers).

I think your feelings of frustration are completely validated and understandable given what you have been going through. And while I have never had to deal with a similar situation (the worst it ever got for me was minor guilt trips from my grandma because she didn't get to spend as much time with our daughter as she got to spend with my cousin's son-who lived with her, or slight guilt from deciding to move to North Carolina and go to med school at Duke, rather than to the U of Utah) I would perhaps offer a novel take on dealing with the situation. This is how I imagine I would deal with something like this (especially given how long you have had to put up with it).

I would just act as if these letters and her manipulative attitude didn't exist. I would write here occasional letters (no more than any other family member), but my communication would be entirely empty of meaning, and it would never acknowledge her attempts at manipulation. Play it cool and let her know, without saying it, that she is having no effect on you. I think that would be best accomplished by an infrequent correspondence communicating to her how your life is going and that you are very happy with it, that you feel good about where you are in life. It spares the vitriol, and ultimately is more effective at conveying to her your lack of interest in her rantings.

And it also sets you on the high ground. You would demonstrate to her a far more "Christian" attitude than that with which she addresses you. Afterall, when Christ was confronted with vitriolic attacks he never responded in kind, rather he turned their attacks aside with teaching. You could do the same by showing her you are still willing to acknowledge her without resorting to her levels.

Just an idea.

[ October 14, 2003, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Jexxster ]
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I think my grandmother gave it a shot at being controlling and disapproving, but my grandfather talked her down. Yay! The patriarchal system worked in my favor!

This works out because my grandpa is a complete darling.
 

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Posted by Sweet William (Member # 5212) on :
 
(((((To everyone who has a control freak mother/father/grandmother/grandfather))))

My sweet little grandma died a couple of months ago. I will miss her desperately, but the one thing I will treasure always was that whenever she looked at me, I felt like the most beautiful, perfect person on earth.

I wish I could be more like her.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
That's how I feel about my grandpa. My grandpa and my uncle think I'm brilliant, beautiful, creative, and an absolute treasure. It's so weird that I was suspicious of it for a long time. I love it.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
I've got to confess that I love my paternal grandparents, too. They're both absolutely wonderful people -- intelligent, kind, hard-working, and pretty darn near selfless.

I don't know my maternal ones too well, sadly; they disowned my mom decades ago, and I've only met them once. By all accounts (admittedly biased), I'm not missing much.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Jexxter, the problem with communicating to her at all is that "anything you say can and will be used against you"

AJ
 

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Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
...in the court of God.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
You could just tell her that Steve is black and you're thinking about going bisexual. Regardless of whether or not you're in her will, this would appear to be a win-win situation.
 

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Posted by Jexxster (Member # 5293) on :
 
I suppose I figured that after reading the bits you have posted that she has already enough ammunition for her "holy war" against your sinful and perverted ( ) lifestyle that anymore would be superfluous.

It sounds to me that she doesn't need you to give her anything to use, she will come up with whatever she wants. So what is the harm in letting her know you are happy?

But, obviously, I can only see the glimmer of a reflection off the surface of all of this and my opinion would obviously have to defer to your much more profound understanding of the situation. Afterall, you are the one living it, not I.

Hope it all turns out well. I also hope, for your grandmother's sake, that she can, at some point (whether in this life or the next) see the error of her ways and embrace you with the love my grandparents have always shown me.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Actually I don't really care about a will. They had some money after Grammy sold off her mother's Kentucky tobbaco plantation (because tobacco was of the devil) but they pretty much frittered it all away in bad investments etc.

Like I said earlier in this thread though, anything rude or over the top(even if couched in Southern terms) I say to Grammy, will get taken out on my mother, who while we don't see eye to eye is infinitely more logical than Grandma.

So its better for me to not say anything I think.

AJ
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Jexster's comment got me thinking. The problem is, that no matter how much you tell these people that you are happy, they truly believe that deep down you MUST be miserable. If they start believing you are happy it invalidates their own religion, which says that anyone living without their god is unhappy.

The funny thing is that I could turn it around on them. They genuinely think they are happy (because it is kind of a sin to not be happy) but their actions show just how miserable, and unhappy they actually are.

AJ
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
I think you should send Grammy a nice, framed 8x10 color glossy of you and Steve for Christmas. Yes, it's passive agressive, but if it kills her, not only will you not get grief about it, but neither will your mother. And actually, if your mother gets grief about it, I'd tell her that it's her problem. She is a grown woman and should more than capable of speaking up on her own behalf. You know, something along the lines of "Mother, Anna seems to be the one you are having the problem with. If it annoys you, take it up with her and leave me out of the middle." At which point Grammy will either start annoying you and you can tell her to shove off, or she won't.
 

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Posted by Jexxster (Member # 5293) on :
 
AJ

Very true, people like that just can't seem to believe that there is any joy to be found outside their incredibly egocentric microcosm. It is a shame, and hopefully someday they can change.

And what I find the most sad is that they feel the need to shove that sort of myopic view of the world and life down the throats of all around them.

Perhaps it is hypocrisy for me to say that, having served a religious mission and all. But if someone told us no we wished them a good day and really meant it, then moved on.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
The problem with the 8x10 glossy is getting Steve to actually have a picture taken.
I'd kind of like a portrait of us and the dogs, but I don't even think I could get a portrait of us without the dogs out of him.

AJ
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
Steve is a doll for inviting us back.

AJ, the letter I read aloud was among the most caustic pieces of writing I've ever had the displeasure of handling. It went so far beyond the pale that my jaw dropped.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Yeah, I know, I think that was part of what brought this back to the surface again. I guess I have developed a callous to what she is actually writing. Your genuine outrage was good for me. Every now and then I need to remind myself that this Isn't Normal Behavior and that there are good people out there who don't approve of it.

Letting myself lull into a false sense of normalcy is probably dangerous, because since I have seen similar traits in my Grandma and my mother (though mom isn't as bad, but has gotten progressively worse with age) I need to constantly remind myself to be on the lookout for those things in myself.

I'll try to type that most recent letter into this thread tonight for the rest of Hatrack if I get a chance.

AJ
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
Only type it in if it helps you. Sharing the burden can be a relief, and I think it would be hard for someone to imagine what this woman gets up to on her own, unless you'd seen it firsthand.

Sheesh.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
At this point, typing it in will be more of a challenge with the unorthodox punctuation and illegible penmanship.

I really do need to scan one in so those of you who haven't seen one in person can get the full underlining experience.

AJ
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
I'd be interested in seeing a copy actually. I've been wondering what these letters looked at ever since you first mentioned them.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Well I've worked it out with TomD. Since I don't have a webpage of my own, tonight when I get home from work I'm going to scan the most recent letter (front and back when necessary) in and e-mail it to him. He will post it and put the link here.

Hopefully it will be decipherable. I have a pretty decent quality scanner.

AJ
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
Noemon, it's bizarre. Bits of gossipy chitchat about family interspersed with threats of hellfire. "Mary had a teaparty, check out the photos" followed by "and unless you repent of your ways, eternal damnation is your lot."

Bible quotes and random underlining throughout. Just bizarre.

[ October 14, 2003, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
That is so bizarre. I actually think about these letters more than you might expect...they just sound so horrifyingly odd. I've actually imagined little doodles of devils gleefully poking at people as they writhe in hellfire decorating the margins.

[ October 14, 2003, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: Noemon ]
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I'm totally doing that on the next letter I write to my brother.
 

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Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
 
((((((((((((((((AJ))))))))))))))))

Hobbes
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
I'm kat's muse! Whooo-hooo!
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
no there aren't any doodles, just a lot of underlining.

We all agree she is loony, but what do you think of someone who sends you pictures of relatives and then asks you to send them back?

I think she wants me to send them back just so she can get a letter from me and I don't want to give her that satisfaction. I haven't ever sent them back, because I don't think I should have to. Which is more rude?

(There's one for miss manners!)

AJ
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Well I got an even more bizzare postcard from Grandma today. In it she says "Please forgive me, I need more meekness" Heb. 6:1. Then goes on to discuss my salvation or lack thereof. (She can squeeze a lot on a postcard.)

I looked up the Bible verse and I have no idea what her point is, as far as me forgiving her goes. What specific act does she want me to forgive? It isn't her general bitchiness because that is still clearly there.

I'm in the process of scanning the letter and the postcard in and will send it to Tom shortly.

AJ
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Tom, I'm sending the files from STeve's e-mail since the scanner is hooked up to his computer and it is easier than messing with hotmail directly. You will see something come through with sjones_ce I don't know what size file it will be.

Steve is making me do them in black and white to make them smaller, though the audience will miss an interesting ink color change. She changes from black pen to blue pen from the first to second page, and then goes back to underline the black stuff in blue pen.

Truly bizzare.

AJ
 

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Posted by Black Mage (Member # 5800) on :
 
Wow, this controlling matriarch thing saddens me. Man, I just can't imagine if my Grandmasand Great Grandma were any different.

My Great Granny just passed, and she was the sweetest, kindest, most accepting person I could ever hope to meet. Truly a Christian, how a Christian should be. And man, I don't know what to say, if I hadn't had. . .

Just do your best, all right? Your grandmother has no grounds for her hate letters. Ignore them and hang in there.
 

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Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :
 

quote:

---

It's hard to understand, I guess, unless you've actually had to deal with this situation, but some grandmothers, and mothers, and aunts, etc. are genuinely awful people who want nothing but to control every inch of their offspring's lives.

---

quote:

---

the problem with communicating to her at all is that "anything you say can and will be used against you"

---

YES.

This is EXACTLY how they work.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Wondering if tom will be able to get the letter up tonight....

Thanks for your work on this Tom!

AJ
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
http://www.plastic-castle.com/grandmapostcard.pdf

http://www.plastic-castle.com/grandmaletter.pdf
 

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Posted by Jexxster (Member # 5293) on :
 


*GASP*

You could have served tea?!?!

And remind us againg why you aren't running, walking, flying, hitch hiking, whatever it takes to get there.



Wow, sorry you have to put up with this. I sincerely hope sharing is good therapy.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
To use a Ralphie-ism Tom RAWKS!

AJ
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
I can see the postcard, but not the letter.

*kicks puter*
 

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Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
 
Weird.

I can see the letter but not the postcard.
 

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Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
 
While meaning no offense, but assuredly causing some - Anna, your grandmother's letters make me think of the Chick tracts I parodied.
 

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Posted by Emperor Palpatine (Member # 3544) on :
 
Looks like you still exist, carnie.
 

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Posted by fiazko (Member # 5812) on :
 
wow, banna, i don't even know where to start. i have some clue what you're going through. my mother is similar, although she hasn't quite gotten to the level of your grandmother. However, i've only just begun to wade through the deceit and the manipulation and the emotional chaos. I also can't have a conversation with her without being told how i need to pray and find a church. Yohzik said:

quote:

---

I won't feel really safe from her until she's dead.

---

i wish i could say the same thing. i don't necessarily fear my mother, but my two brothers and i can't get together (i'm lucky if i see one of them every other year, let alone both at once) without talking about mom and how she's screwed us up. sadly, i don't think that will change even after she's dead. i love my mother, maybe because i've been brainwashed to do so, but i resent the emotional damage i'm currently dealing with.

i admit i'm not completely up to speed on your situation, and i'm not really in a position to offer advice, but it kind of sounds like you should stop reading the letters. i can understand your wanting to keep them as evidence. i would likely do the same thing. but you can't move on if you keep going back to the same place. trying to get her to stop sending the letters would probably just make things worse, but there's no law that says you have to read them.

[ October 15, 2003, 04:08 AM: Message edited by: fiazko ]
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
"Anna, your grandmother's letters make me think of the Chick tracts I parodied."

YES, Ralphie, I thought the same thing.

It also brings back the question: IS the "Landover Baptist Church" site a parody, really? Because what those articles say are real for some people.

Banna, it is incredible, as you mentioned somewhere, that your grandmother peppers the letters equally with banter about embroidery skill and biblical references. It is quite something, even more so when I read the handwritten version.
 

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Posted by GradStudent (Member # 5088) on :
 
I love the fact that she underlined November at the top of the postcard

[ October 15, 2003, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: GradStudent ]
 

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Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
 
I feel sorry for BannaAnna's Grandma.

My grandma's handwriting kind of looks like that, and she peppers her letters with bible verses, but it's with love, and not brimstone.

The postcard wasn't so bad, but the letter was just sad and obsessed.

Poor AnnaBanna.
 

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Posted by Dead_Horse (Member # 3027) on :
 
Well, if the thought of burning in hell didn't make me get married to my boyfriend, the promise of a gift certificate to Red Lobster after two years sure would....

AJ, I am sorry your gramdmother is like she is, and that she persists in reminding you of it.

I have just finished reading a good book called "Controlling People: How to Recognize, Understand, and Deal with People Who Try to Control You" by Patricia Evans, who also wrote "The Verbally Abusive Relationship". I was somewhat disappointed in the "how to deal with them" part, but the description of them and their behavior was right on and very validating. She has web sites at www.patriciaevans.com and www.verbalabuse.com

Love, Rain
 

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Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
 

quote:

---

"Controlling People: How to Recognize, Understand, and Deal with People Who Try to Control You"

---

quote:

---

AND How to Control Them First

---

 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Hey Ralphie... she strangely reminds me of the Chick tracts too. In fact in past letters she has enclosed them for me to "leave in phone booths".

That particular postcard is odd even for her.

AJ
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Oh Grad Student,

Knowing how she things a bit, what I took from that bit about the underlining November "the amish wedding month" was that we (Steve and I) should be sure and get married by next month at the latetst.

AJ
 

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Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
 
Dear Grandma,

Thank you again for all your advice. I have great news. After talking it over with my live in lover (what a sex fiend!) we decided to get married. As you suggested, we eloped last weekend.

I may not have mentioned it before, because I wasn't sure if you could handle the news, but now, with God on my side, I see you can.

My new spouce is black,

and Jewish,

and her name is Eugena.

With Love

Your Granddaughter.

ps. When can we expect the Red Lobster coupon?

[ October 15, 2003, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: Dan_raven ]
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Dan that is great!

While I have never wanted a "frilly" wedding, I now resent the fact that she thinks I am no longer worthy of the "best" which in her mind is the frilly wedding, and that I should take the lesser "elopment" option.

Though it gives me a great excuse for not inviting her to the wedding!

AJ
 

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Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
(((BannaOj)))

Your grandmother reminds me of my mother, when she was going through her religious phase. And I agree with the people who have posted to say that it is not about religion, or genuine concern for your soul, but about being in control and being manipulative.

I won't go into detail, because I don't want to open the gates and hijack your thread, but I really can empathize A LOT. If you ever want to talk about it with someone who may know exactly how you feel, feel free to IM me if you have AIM, or to e-mail me.

(((BannaOj)))
 

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Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
 
You are worthy of the best.

Lucky for you, you found it.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
I posted an excerpt from the letter over on that "verbal abuse" bulletin board. It doesn't look nearly as good as Hatrack, but I'll see what they say, if anything.

((Hatrack))

I love you guys!

AJ
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Random thoughts:
I want to know whether the letter lives up (or down) to Noemon's expectations.
---
Out of courtesy to my cousins, I didn't scan in the two pictures of them at their "tea party" but suffice to say it the idea looked like a pre-Civil War Southern ball, without quite the authentic period clothing. (Those who saw the pictures can attempt to describe further if they wish.) Most of them appeared to be wearing hoop skirts.
---
That Bible verse that she quoted on the postcard. I really don't get what she was saying and I've had years to try to learn to interpret her. Most of the time she does have a point she is trying to make even if it is out in left field somewhere before she jumps to the next topic.

Here's the verse, in KJV because that is what she always quotes. Let me know if you can think of anything, that a less than rational mind might produce. Here's the entire passage The specific verse is

quote:

---

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

---

any ideas?

AJ
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Actually, Anna, the postcard sounds to me like an apology. She's saying that she, personally, needs more meekness, and would like you to forgive her for harping.

Admittedly, I'm not sure what Hebrews 6 has to do with that; it's a verse that explains that God will show mercy to the deserving (and has made a promise in that regard), but that people who have been baptized and fall from grace thereafter are NOT deserving. Kind of passive-aggressive in this context, methinks.

Further, I find it odd that she describes the saved person as "carrying a great burden," then goes on to say "not saved = no burden." Presumably it's a GOOD burden?
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Poor lady.

The letter is wack. Anna should NOT have to deal with this, and is under no obligations, but the postcard was almost touching.

I was confused by the ending, too. Did she mean it that way? That those who are saved are carrying a burden? Does she mean responsibility? Does she see her need for more meekness as a burden? I think she's fascinating, in the same way I think Katharine Hepburn is fascinating. You don't want to be related to or to live with such people, but she's fascinating.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Yeah, but the problem I guess is that I view any apology as highly suspect and merely a ploy for further manipulation attempts.

The other thing that bothers me is that these sort of people "need" me to forgive them, even if I say there is nothing to forgive. Compelled forgiveness isn't forgiveness at all. My mother is worse about this than Mamaw and she isn't anywhere near as outrageous.

I refuse to forgive and forget however, because to act like nothing has ever happened is rediculous. With a track record like Mamaw's to drop my guard for an instant would make me vulnerable. I will NOT make myself any more emotionally vulnerable than I already am to a person like this.

I don't know if there is anything to actually forgive or not. To me it depends on the woman's sanity. If she is sane I don't know that I could or should forgive with that little of an apology, everything she writes is too deliberately malicious and unmaking. If she isn't sane and just batty, then yes I can forgive her, but I then have major issues with the rest of the family for being in denial of her mental illness.,

I know the reason for forgivness
(from a human standpoint)is to let something go so that it doesn't eat away at you anymore. In a real sense I am trying to do that, but in a different way than Grammy thinks is proper. Every time I share this, it loses some of its venom.

The problem is that the venom is still dangerous and I don't know what to do with the snake. I have moved on with my life so that it doesn't affect me directly or daily like it used to. But rather than "forgiving" in the classical definition, the only way I move past is by telling myself that it doesn't matter what this woman says to me, I know I have value and am loved.

Hopefully one day I will get to the point where it doesn't matter to me in the slightest. At that point I guess "forgivness" will have been reached.

AJ
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Also, viscerally and emotionally I think that a sentence on a postcard is a pretty poor excuse of an apology for the last 6 years of multi-page letters.

The cold cynical part of me wonders if it is her grasping at straws as she realizes the manipulations aren't working at all.

AJ
 

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Posted by El Babalao (Member # 5817) on :
 
I have an idea!

Why don't you tell her I am your boyfriend!

I'll even get my white suit starched for the portrait, and wear my most colorful beads!

Would she be better disposed toward the whole thing if I promise to bring her good fortune?


 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
Wow Banna, those were something else! I'm with kat, in that your grandmother seems fascinating to me--fascinating, and terribly sick. Those letters have the same feel, to me, as Grima Wormtongue does in LOTR. I'm sorry that you've had to deal with her all your life, but I'm glad that you have the strength of character to refuse to allow yourself to be molded by her.

I also feel sorry for her. I imagine that being her must be a pretty hellish expereince.
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
I do think, though, that the letters could be improved if she were to add doodles of the type I mentioned earlier. She could intersperse them with doodles of bunnies and flowers, maybe.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
She has done smiley faces before.

I guess when I am in more detached moments, she fascinates me as well. How does someone become so complicated?

AJ
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
Do her happy faces ever have horns and goatees?

quote:

---

I guess when I am in more detached moments, she fascinates me as well. How does someone become so complicated?

---

quote:

---

grandma may have been raised more by the maids then by her mother, since her mother was a socialite.

---

My word Anna, this is my family. My grandmother (Nanny) was raised by maids and aunts and nannies while my great-grandmother traveled the country and eventually married an older, rich guy and threw parties. Thing is, my great-grandmother died young (in her fifties) and the step-father remarried a twenty-something and cut my Nanny pretty much out of the family and everything else when she objected in a no-doubt dramatic and self-righteous way to her step-father and his cookie sharing a hotel room before they were married (this was in the early fifties).

I wonder the effect this had on my grandmother and her daughters. Except for my mom (who, fortunately for her, married a man who bases his conception of success on how happy his wife is), my grandmother and her daughters all married men who treated them very, very badly.

I'm fascinated by it, but except for my two aunts, all the players died a long time ago. My mother was, I think, in your place - she married outside of the culture and shocked her family in the process. On the other hand, once she got to know my dad, my grandmother adored him. She even made my dad the executor of her will.

Maybe it wouldn't be a tragedy if grandma met Steve? The race thing is a big thing for her to get over, but my grandmother was a Southern Baptist who got over the fact that her son-in-law was Mormon.

[ October 15, 2003, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 

quote:

---

There is a tax write off for married couples, but I'm sure that wasn't the reason they got married. I can die happy now.

---

quote:

---

"Elope" it is legal!

---

quote:

---

It could get worse if you broke up and one killed themself.

---

You know what would be really bad? If a huge asteroid were heading for earth. Or if there were an airborne Ebola virus.

When all else fails, remember, it could be worse. It could be raining.

quote:

---

God's way is [sic]promissing to love your wife or husband till death do you part.

---

Isn't it a wonder there aren't more suicides amongst the married?

quote:

---

I'm sure they will visit you and hope you will be married by then.

---

Wait, they will be hoping we are married by then? Or they are just going to be visiting and you are hoping we will be married by then? And, as Steel Magnolias made clear, we all know that guys named "Steve" are gay, anyway. As to why Stephen and Nate (obviously, a gay couple) would be concerned about whether or not AJ is married is beyond me. Like they don't have enough trouble keeping the fact that they are a gay couple from granny.

quote:

---

You will miss out on the big wedding you would have had, but you can be blessed by God and enjoy having children to fill your home with joy and blessing just go on & on & on as you live for Jeasus.

---

quote:

---

but you can be blessed by God and enjoy having children

---

quote:

---

P.S. Please return the picture after Christmas when it will be winter, or send it to your mom and dad.

---

quote:

---

Hope it snows when your brothers come here.

---

quote:

---

she objected in a no-doubt dramatic and self-righteous

---

quote:

---

Maybe it wouldn't be a tragedy if grandma met Steve? The race thing is a big thing for her to get over, but my grandmother was a Southern Baptist who got over the fact that her son-in-law was Mormon.

---

I bet a couple of generations ago the same wouldn't have been said. Maybe your grandchildren will one day say the same thing about "Steve and Nate."
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 

quote:

---

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
she objected in a no-doubt dramatic and self-righteous
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wonder if that is hereditary.

---

Bite me, girly.

-----

Check it out! It is!
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Kayla I loved it. I just read it aloud to Steve and he was

Re: Drama. I'm not trying to be a drama queen here, but I think the letters are drama enough in and of themselves.

Stephen and Nate happen to be my brothers which had me because I've privately speculated that Stephen might be gay.

And yes Freud would have a field day with me because my bf has the same name as my brother. Fortunately there are dramatic differences in looks, Steve is a short fuzzy afro-cuban and my brothers look like the return of the Aryan nation.
 

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Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
 
Wow AJ, you're like a walking, talking Barbara Kingsolver novel.

Stiff upper-lip and all that.
 

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Posted by Black Mage (Member # 5800) on :
 
It would be interesting, your grandmother's reaction, if Stephen came out. . .

Who is not a "toxic person" on that side of your family? Show them the letters. Then cut Grandma off.
 

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Posted by Black Mage (Member # 5800) on :
 
Can you translate the letters? Your grandma's handwriting is quite difficult.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
Speaking of Barb Kingsolver, have you read "The Poisonwood Bible," Banna?
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
No, the only Kingsolver I've read is The Bean Trees. Do you recoommend any others?

As far as the handwriting if I felt like giving an actual translation I would have typed it in.

I've pretty much burned myself out on the issue for a while. Which is why I do this in the first place. It is a safe way to vent without actually hurting anyone.

AJ
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
(((((AJ)))))
 

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Posted by Black Mage (Member # 5800) on :
 
Ah. I apologize, then.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
B,
"The Poisonwood Bible" is about a family(four girls, a mom and dad) who goes on a mission in The Congo in the 1950's. The father is a minister who is a bit off the deep end. He reminds me of your grandmother, or vice versa.

The book is, like your grandmother's letters, as funny as it is terribly sad.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
New letter coming shortly...

AJ
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
http://home.comcast.net/~sjonesce/grandmaletter2.pdf

It is a large file since we had to get a high resolution in order to actually be able to read the horrid handwriting.

I think it speaks for itself.

AJ
 

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Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
 
Hmm, Grandma's letter is not loading for me...
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
you need to have a pdf reader, and it may be slow
especially since I think several hatrackers are reading it at the moment

AJ
 

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Posted by jack (Member # 2083) on :
 
I had a problem like that. One time I mailed the entire letter, unopened back to the person. The other time, I ripped the entire letter (and envelope) up and mailed that back. Amazingly, I never got another letter from them.

You have two choices. Allow them to continue treating you like this, or not. If you feel it's worth putting up with, then by all means, don't make waves. However, if that's your decision, stop complaining about it. You are the one choosing to be the martyr, so deal with it. Otherwise, tell grammy to drop dead and when mom calls to complain about grammy going on and on about you, tell your mom that she has two choices. One, put up with grammy, or two, shut up about it. That will be her choice.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Oh Jack, I'd love to do that. I'm not being them martyr most the time. Sometimes it affects me more emotionally than other times. I post it here because it is a catharsis. If every one else says, "yes shes loony" then I can pass it off as the ravings of a loony old woman who doesn't have anything better to do with her time.

I live my life exactly how I want to and am in general extremely happy with my life. It does make me unhappy, sometimes, that they can't accept the fact that I am actually generally happy with my lifestyle choices.

If I cut my grandmother off, it would backlash on my mother the most. My mother and I have struggled with our relationship. But, right now we are actually on speaking terms with each other and things are much better than they have been in a long time. However telling her, what she already knows, that her mother is a loon, and cutting her mother off, when she has put up with Mamaw forever, would destroy the good things I have in the relationship with my mother, that I have worked very hard to develop. And I'm not willing give that up.

So I post the letters on the internet for people to laugh at and it makes me feel better. Maybe it is a little petty, but it helps me cope.

AJ
 

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Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
Hmm. Do you think you’d have fun sending your grandmother a copy of a gushing “thank you” note from Rev. Williams for playing the piano in church on the 22nd? Or would that just encourage her?
 

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Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
You know, I was reading the first page and thinking to myself "Why is AJ so upset? This is just a sweet Grandma giving her family news"

Then I realized there were three more pages.

Oh, AJ. I don't know what to say, dear heart.

I love the inherent threads of guilt and spite that weave through it.

"We can't give you a ring, Anna Jo because you live in sin. So we'll give it to this VIRTUOUS woman instead.

"Worrying about people is bad for my health, but you don't care - you just keep living in sin not caring at all what it does to your grandmother."

Of course, what does she expect? You don't show respect for anyone anyway. How dare you not go to the park!

Oh Sweetie. I can only say this - she loves you in the only way she knows how. And she is showing her love to you the only way she knows how to.

Not that it makes those letters any easier to take. Bcause, heaven knows, they can't be easy to deal with.

((((AJ))))
 

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Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 
What I loved about the letter was the subtle hint that if you shape up, she'll give you stuff.

Heck, the old bat can't last forever. I say suck up to her, pretend you've got God gushing from every pore, and maybe she'll give you her house.

Then you could burn it!
 

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Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
Don't forget, Bob the implicit threat of how AJ will end up - crying over babies because she didn't have any because of her choice to live in sin.
 

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Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 
Yeah, Belle, that was beautiful.

Maybe you could send the letter to grandma's pastor.
 

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Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
Did anybody else notice that she dated it September 4, 04?

That, combined with the fact that she's bringing up stuff that happened 11 years ago (when you were what, 13?) makes me wonder a little about dementia. (Not like it's not obvious she's demented, I mean in a more clinical sense. )
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
I was wondering if that "retroactive sin" was a bit like "retroactive prayer" Don't get me wrong I understand consequences for actions.

However, the horrid thing about that particular section is that I know Charlene had medical problems and couldn't concieve regardless. I'm guessing that one of the very reasons she didn't marry him sooner was exactly that, because she couldn't be a mother. This adds an entirely different spin to the scene described.

AJ
 

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Posted by MaydayDesiax (Member # 5012) on :
 
((((((((((AJ))))))))))

Darn, but the woman can hold a grudge. Not wanting to go to the park? GASP.

Well, according to this woman, we'll all be burning in hell. I'll cook, who wants to bring the drinks?


 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Actually, Dana, I noticed that too (about the date) the second time reading it.

I love the letter idea, however it isn't worth having that much communication with her. Grin, plus you'd need to sign it D. Williams rather than Dana, or I'm even more doomed to hell than before!

Anthony, who was the guy mentioned from Ventura College, was and still is an extremely devout Catholic. I defended him at the time saying that Catholics could be Christians too. PArt of the "kid sister" role I was in with Anthony included many long and interesting theological conversations. But apparently that was massive rebellion on my part.

AJ

[ February 08, 2004, 12:09 AM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Do you know of any 14 year old that is a) actually happy and b) wishing to be seen at any sort of event with her 10 and 8 year old little brothers.

I dredged my memory banks to remember this event and it is extremely hazy. I think I wanted to stay inside and read a book, because I had absolutely zero interest in the playground and knew I would be bored out of my mind.

AJ
 

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Posted by MaydayDesiax (Member # 5012) on :
 
You should have done the one thing that pisses my father's family off to no avail: Go along willingly... but bring a book. Two, if you can fit them in your purse/pockets.

They HATE that. And my mother approves, but that's another story.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
And as I recall about the low backline, (which I remember more vividly because that was an ongoing discussion with my mother, even though I NEVER wore anything extreme.) the level of the back was at least two to three inches above my bra strap.

That shirt was one of the few I possesed that actually made me look remotely attractive and not looking like I was wearing burlap sack. But of course looking attractive was a sin, because it might attract BOYS. And if boys were attracted to you, you were causing them to sin since they might look at you with lust in their eye. And the Lust of course was all your fault since women are the cause of evil. (ok that ramble went to an extreme end but you get the point)

AJ
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
My mother wasn't there to protect me, and they MADE me leave the book behind. I'm sure I would have taken it otherwise. I used to follow my mother's grocery cart through the supermarket with my nose in a book.

AJ
 

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Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
You know what's so darn irritating about this all?

You're defending yourself. That's not a knock against you, at all - I do the same thing.

When our family disapproves of us, it makes us defensive, even when we KNOW we are in the right and they are wrong.

That's why the letters frustrate you. Because they are your family, misguided though they are, you still want their approval on some level.

My father (no, stepfather I guess) abused me and did some terrible things to our family, even stole from us and it still hurt me and made me cry when he told my Mom he didn't give a damn if he never saw me again.

Why should I care what he thinks?

Argh!! It's so frustrating. If only we were cold, heartless people who could just stop caring what others thought.

Of course, it is the fact that you're a caring loving person that makes us like you so much.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
*hugs* Belle I love you!

I do understand people being opposed to my lifestyle choice. However, there are definitely far better arguments that you could use than this mess.

On the phone with my friends, we decided that I may actually be responsible for keeping her alive. She has a reason for living in worrying about me. If she didn't have me to worry about, she could die happy and at peace with the world!

AJ
 

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Posted by jack (Member # 2083) on :
 
AJ, are you trying to say that only a woman would be named Dana? I think this Dana, or maybe this Dana might be a bit offended.
 

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Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
 
My favorite part is the triangle. Priceless.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
true, maybe it is ambiguous enough that she would be confused. Her brother is named Carroll. But, then she'd be after me to leave Steve and mary that wonderful "Pastor Dana"!

Mrs. M, Steve's response to that, was well what about a cord of 4 strands? 4-stranded cable is even stronger... hey would she approve of a foursome?!

AJ
 

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Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
*snort*

I like Steve.
 

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Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
“mary that wonderful ‘Pastor Dana’!”

*snicker*

[ February 08, 2004, 12:55 AM: Message edited by: dkw ]
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
I particularly liked the "he wasn't even a Christian and you thought he was great" bit.

Anna, the offer is still out there; if you want to put up a site called "Letters from My Wacky Grandma," I'll donate the server space and bandwidth. It's at least as funny as the hamster dance.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
hmmm tom thanks for the offer! I posted on this website because it was quick and dirty now that we have comcast. I know you know how many pages I have of letters there are literally hundreds. I don't know where my binder is that has the archives. I think it may still be in a box in the garage.

You have no idea how tempting that offer is!

AJ
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Steve's comment to the "woman being a crown to the man" bit, was "Well you can sit on my head any time!"

AJ
 

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Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
 
Grannie outdid herself this time! hahahahahahah this is the funniest one yet!
 

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Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
 
A classic! Thanks for posting the letter. I had a good laugh, something I really needed. I think it's terrible how your grandmother has NO RESPECT for her GRANDCHILD. That's not very VIRTUOUS of her. Oh, and the triangle was hilarious. For a moment, I thought she was suggesting a threesome!
 

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Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
 
A threesome with God!!

I think it's sad. Your grandmother's obviously somehow senile, as is evident from the rambly nature of her letter... It's terrible that she's got to lose her faculties like that. Also terrible that she's using the time she has left writing guilt-laden letters to you.

But other than the sadness, the letters are rather hilarious. Wow, I'm SO evil...
 

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Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
 

quote:

---

You know, I was reading the first page and thinking to myself "Why is AJ so upset? This is just a sweet Grandma giving her family news"

Then I realized there were three more pages.

---

I agree Belle: I read the first page and thought "That's just like my Grandma would write: slightly batty but lovely". Then we got the triangle, the lack of respect, the immodesty...

((((AJ)))) At least it seems both you and Steve are able to deal with these letters (and your Grandma).

It does seem kind of sad - while I know there are issues of control, your grandma does come across as lonely. However, you should in no way feel you have to respond/give credence to her veiws and try not to let them upset you.

I have it comparatively great: the worst I have is a weight obessed grandma who has commented on every single weight fluctuation of mine (both real and imaginary) since I was 11. I got so sick of her asking (in a passive-but-making-a-point-that-all-women-should-be-on-a-diet) how I manage to stay thin when I eat so much that I made a point of always eating chocolate cake around her. Always.

I also have a grandfather who can't stand it when I drink beer out of a bottle instead of a glass (not ladylike) but I humour him.

Nowhere in your league AJ!

[ February 08, 2004, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: imogen ]
 

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Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 
And AJ was just a typical fourteen year old...

*sigh*

And imogen, that's so odd. MY grandmother is always trying to get me to eat MORE. o_O
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
*hugs Jatraqueros*

You guys are great. You have no idea how much your comments remove the sting from what she says.

AJ
 

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Posted by Anthro (Member # 6087) on :
 
Oh (((((((((AJ))))))))). I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. . .

Somehow, I can't help feeling sorry for her too, though. I think she really does love you. And I think she has a vision of herself saving you from darkness. She's probably used to being a matriarch, and a meddlesome one too, so this controlling tactic, I guess that's the only way she can think of. And she's old. . .

Can you remember what she was like when you were younger? This may make me seem a bastard or at least naive for saying all this, but, you know, I really have to hope she's got good reasons at heart. . .
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Well I don't know what she was like pre-menopause, but post-menopause she's always been this way. I know I've mentioned the story from when I was born (25 years ago) about her chasing my father through the grocery store screaming about how my mother was breastfeeding me wrong and starving me. (Incidentally, I never lost weight as a newborn, and was pretty fat!)

AJ
 

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Posted by Scythrop (Member # 5731) on :
 
(((AJ)))

quote:

---

I know you know how many pages I have of letters there are literally hundreds. I don't know where my binder is that has the archives. I think it may still be in a box in the garage

---

If it wouldn't be such a huge loss to the comedy world, I'd suggest burning or at least dumping the whole lot of them as an exercise in catharsis - why have this sort of rubbish sitting there in your garage or cluttering up your spare room?

Of course, you could always just take up Tom Davidson's web site offer, and then write back to her, something along the lines of,

Dear Grandma, sorry I haven't written back sooner, but I've been really busy lately, what with having a life and all. Thanks so much for all your letters of the last decade, though. I like them so much that I'm posting them regularly to the internet, so that my friends can also BE SAVED! They all love them, too. Please continue to write, more frequently, if at all possible...

Sounds like Steve is a great bloke and that you both have a pretty good handle on the whole situation, though. Keep smiling, we're thinking of you here in Oz.

t
 

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Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
 
I can't read the letter! I've been trying all day!

But (((AJ))) anyhow
 

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Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
 
It's like my grandma joined some kind of witness protection program and became your grandma. The handwriting is even the same. My favorite thing she ever wrote was on the back of a photo of me and my husband: "Who would have thought they'd still be together after all this time?" Her whole deal was that I shouldn't marry white. The idea that I was as un-chinese as I am un-white never got through to her.

[ February 08, 2004, 11:33 PM: Message edited by: pooka ]
 

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Posted by jack (Member # 2083) on :
 
Loeonide, this is the letter.

Dear Anna Jo,

Your Mother gave me this beautiful paper for Christmas. I do have 50 angles in our apt. but you wouldn't know it unless you were counting them.

The Home Schoolers all went to the ski slopes today. Aunt Patty & Aunt Marilyn (both the aunts are written on top of the names as an after thought) left at 7:30AM with car loads. If they have over 15 they get low prices so about 30 people went from their Home School group.

I have to wear gloves to go out. Have you got used to cold weather by mow? I really like all seasons. We have a bird feeder so we feed the birds when snow covers the ground.

I watched Quinn (SP?) today for Aunt Janice. Schools had a 2 hr delay due to ice. She works next door at a Florist & brings me lots of flowers they reject there. Today I have pink & white snapdragons.

Do you watch the Millionaire? It comes on here at 8PM almost every night. Fun to watch except when Hollywood Stars come & cheat.

Today I had on my favorite record (Added above the word record is CD) with 14 gospel songs. "You are drifting too far from the Shore". (Underlined) Papa said, "he could tell you were drifting too far when you came for a visit 11 yrs ago. We were in an apt with a park behind it for 1 year. Papaw asked you to go out to the park with him. Shephen & Nate wanted to go. He had to demand you to go before you finally decided to go. Showed no respect (no respect underlined) for your grandfather. Then I remembered when we were in CA. & you came out in a dress with no back in it to wear out someplace. Your mom said, Don't wear that. It wasn't modest (underlined). You insisted on wearing it anyway - No (underlined) respect for parents. Then we both remember when you wanted us to go to Ventura College to meet your music director. You played the piano for a boy who sang in German. We both thought he was the pits, in looks & actions. He definately was not (underlined) a Christian and you thought he was great! (From "you" on is underlined.) You were drifting too far from the Shore even then ("even then" underlined.)

We could see Bob's friends were not (underlined) Christians. He drifted far away & didn't come to visit us. Now since he married Charlene ("married Charlene" underlined) after dating her 30 years he is changed. He called us on Sat. & asked us to try out a new church with them on Sunday. We did & were thrilled because it was a gospel preaching church and music was good. We had lunch together & I gave Charlene my diamond ring Russ gave me when we got engaged. She was the only daughter in law (only d-i-l underlined) who didn't have an engagement ring. She has a wedding band. & was so thrilled. (so thrilled underlined) Now that I'm 75 I'm giving away what little I have. There is a price to pay for living in sin, because I could see tears in her eyes when she held a baby & knew she was too old to have a child at 49 or 50 when she married Bob. They both seem so happy now & have new (underlined) friends. A viruous woman is a crown (underlined) to her husband." Prov 12:4 "A wise (underlined) woman buildeth her house but a foolish (underlined) woman pluketh (?)(okay it is plucketh, she just misspelled it) it down with her hands" Pro 13:22 (scratched out) 14:1 "Esteem your husband or wife better than yourself" 9( last three words underlined) Phil 2:3
"A strand Cord is strong & not quickly broken" Ecleseates (Ecclesiastes?)

(Insert, here on the right is a triangle with God and the top, husband in lower left corner and wife in lower right corner.)

When both are "born again" Christians, they can stand the test. & stay (underlined) married.

I never gave up praying for your Papaw to become a real Crhistian. Not in word only. (all underlined) 33 yrs later at age 59 he got saved & I can tell he has the Holy Spirit inside to help him see God's way of talking & doing things. He corrects himself now.

The Song goes on to say. "Come to Jesus today Let Him show you the way You are drifting too far from the shor." (all underlined) The next song says "Take it to the Lord in prayer. (all underlined) Are you weak & heavy laden? Tak it to the Lord in Prayer. " I do, because being upset is not (underlined) good for my health! Love always,
Mamaw XOXO

(I think I have all my own typing errors corrected and the rest are hers. If someone notices something I missed, let me know. Also, I know AJ said it would be too hard for her to go through and type all this out. However, if it bothers her that I did it, let me know and I'll delete this. It just seemed like some people were having trouble accessing the pdf file.)

AJ, the thing that amused me was Charlene being too old by the time she married to have a baby. Is Grammy unaware that marriage isn't a prerequisit for a baby. I would think the sex they were most likely having while living together for 30 years would have been more than sufficient if they'd desired a baby.
 

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Posted by Troubadour (Member # 83) on :
 
What I find additionally hilarious is that she hasn't figured out that if you turn the paper, your writing can proceed horizontally across the page, as opposed to that wacky upslope she's got going on now.

[ February 09, 2004, 12:51 AM: Message edited by: Troubadour ]
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Jack , I'm thrilled you typed it out. For me it is staring at the aforementioned letter longer than I care to in order to type it out. Pluse you don't get the full underlining effects even with Underlining capabilities now.

btw, married or not, Charlene had some serious medical issues and was unable to have children even if she wanted to, which makes that whole bit even more ludicrous. There is a big difference in choosing not to have children and not being able to have any!

AJ
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Troubs sometimes she gets going and writes around the entire perimeter as well!

<grin>
AJ
 

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Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
 
Just based on this and the other letter, I think I'm in the camp that kind of feels sorry for your grandmother.

I do recognize that dealing with her over the span of years would probably be enough to drive someone over the edge, though, and my heart goes out to you, Banna.

It's funny how when something is mostly 'pure', the smallest imperfections stand out. I think that you and your family are good people and that your grandmother has some kind of messiah complex where she feels compelled to erase sin and imperfection from the world, whether it exists or not. I have to wonder if she's ever really gotten out in the world and actually been exposed to seriously messed up people and seen what the real McCoy looks like so she had some kind of frame of reference.
 

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Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
I have a sneaking suspicion that my gramma has some of this stored inside her as well, but since I'm the only grandkid who shows any respect for her, I don't think she wants to ruin that.

I think I've mentioned this. As far as bi-racial marriage goes...ARGH I'm getting angry thinking about it. My mom and her family treated Jes really good because he looks white. (He has part european somewhere and it really shows up.) It's so irritating that they were griping to me about bi-racial marriages once (they say the Bible is against then and the babies will have terrible lives because of the condemnation.(!) ) I had to inform them that if they had been paying attention, they'd realize that I myself was in a bi-racial marriage. OH but it's OKAY because Jes is Native American and he looks kind of white. ERRRRR the double-standard! Like, if they believe God is against mixed marriages, wouldn't he be smart enough to figure out we are mixed despite the fact Jes looks white? Or what? It's like it's only wrong if people can't tell your kids are mixed. It's all about what other people think of your family. Stupid...

Anyway I got a bit OT there. Sorry! Anna, I don't know what to say about your Gramma. Reading her letters is kinda weird, like there's two different people in her body trying to write at the same time. I wonder why she thinks she can "convert" you by insulting you? Gee Gramma, I'd love to be born-again so that I can go with you when you practice condemnation on all our other relatives. Yay!
 

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Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
 

quote:

---

And imogen, that's so odd. MY grandmother is always trying to get me to eat MORE.

---

Mack, I wish I had that kind of grandmother! One of mine is very artistic, and kind of eccentric (in a lovely way), one died when I was eleven and the other is diet obessed. (Yes I have 3 grandmothers. One is actually a step-grandmother, but given she was married to my grandfather long before I was born, three has always seemed perfectly normal for me ) i've never had the traditional grandmother who worries that I'm not eating enough. I wouldn't mind one though!
 

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Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 
My gramma thinks you should live off yogurt (plain) and peanut butter on wheat bread. Bleh.

She once made me french toast. It had pepper in it.
 

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Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
 
*Bleh* indeed. Nothing wrong with peanut butter, plain yogurt or wheat bread - as part of a balanced and varied diet!

As for french toast with pepper... hmmm.

[ February 09, 2004, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: imogen ]
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
I feel sorry for her most of the time too. But she is related to me, and every now and then it ticks me off. Posting the letter to hatrack as I said before, is a preventative coping measure that keeps me from getting worked up and wasting anger on it. Plus any way you look at it, it is pretty good on pure entertainment value!

AJ
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Also the boy that was "the pits", Anthony, was mostly "the pits" because he was Hispanic and Native American on top of Being Catholic, which of course sends you directly to Hell .

The music prof that was mentioned is still a very good friend and mentor of mine. I read her the letter over the phone. In recalling the incident, she described how a horde of my relatives descended on her classroom, to listen to my recital without asking permission of her, acted like they owned the place, treated everybody rudely and then trooped out in much the same manner. It wasn't my fault they were rude but I still cringe to remember it (which was probably why I'd forgotten about it).

AJ
 

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Posted by jack (Member # 2083) on :
 
We have underlining capabilities now?
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
No I guess only bolding, sorry i was mixing this with another list.

AJ
 

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Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 
[u]underline?[/u]

Nope, I guess not.

[ February 09, 2004, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: Bob_Scopatz ]
 

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Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
 
*belated thank you to jack*


 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
I've been having another friend read the letters. She's thinking that the letters could be considered "stalking". Though, I've never told Grandma flat out not to send them, because of the familial backlash I'd get from everyone else.

what do you guys think?

AJ
 

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Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
Not a chance.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
No, they're not stalking. You haven't even told her they're not welcome.
 

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Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
 
No. If you are not going to talk to her about the stupid letters, for fear of a backlash your motehr would face, sicking the courts on her would be worse.

I still think the following letter would be amusing to send.

"Dear Grandma,

Thank you dearly for your concern. To know that you care for my soul gives me strength.

You will be thrilled to know that I have found religion, and its everything you said it would be--thrilling, exhilarating, peaceful, and destined.

My religion is worshiping Mary, a poor Mexican hooker. Boy is she good in bed.

Love,

Your devout grand-daughter.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Yes I realize that I haven't told her they are unwelcome.

I don't know that my friend was defining it in the strictly "legal" sense of stalkering. I think she is simply talking about the unsolicited mail that isn't receiving a response going on for now close to seven years.

And that if I truly wanted it to stop at all costs, I should use tactics exactly like one would treat a stalker.

Here I'll quote her, I don't think she will mind.

quote:

---

In fact, I think she is basically stalking you, and the tactics you would need to use (if you were going to do anything) are the same that you would need to use if a man was stalking you and offering unwanted attention.
The big problem now is that it's been going on for so long. If this had just started, I would say to inform her that you find her letters
offensive, and that if she doesn't start respecting you, you will throw all her letters in the trash unopened and not speak to or see her until she begins respecting you. She might then quickly realize that to have a relationship with you she needs to shape up.

But of course you couldn't do this when it started when you were a kid, if only because you didn't know better then. (I plan to make sure my kids know about stalking & harassment issues and how to deal with them.)

... You could still try something like this, but it might not work if only because the problem has been going on for so long. ... you know that you have the right to have people espect you, which clearly your Grandmother doesn't. If you ever have another similar circumstance, don't ever let it fester for so long. Demand respect and if you don't get it, cut them out of your life until
they shape up! If they don't respect you why would they want to be part of your life anyway.

---

She's right of course. Though 7 years ago, when the letters started, while they were somewhat disrespectful about my carreer choices, they weren't really as out and out horrid and loony as they are now. I did bring it up with my mother once or twice back then, and she basically said at that point that I should ignore it and be happy I was getting letters in college.

AJ
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Anna, until you talk to her about the letters, it isn't stalking or anything. If you don't like the letters, seriously, talk to her. She doesn't hold you hostage.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
I agree she is not a "stalker" in the technical legal sense (did you see what I said above?)

However unsolicited behavior continuing for years, that she gets no positive re-inforcment from, is stalker-esque in a lot of ways, even if she isn't making threats or anything else. I believe my friend is right, in that the steps I would have to take to get them to be stopped are exactly the same steps that you take with a stalker.

The first step in both cases is that you have to tell them you don't wish the letters anymore even if it is abundantly obvious to normal people. Legal steps can then be taken when the letters continue. The reason why I'm not taking the actual steps to stop the letters have already been explained. The backlash would be far worse than it is worth.

AJ

[ February 13, 2004, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
There is a positive side benefit I get from the letters that just occured to me. It gets me calling up friends I haven't talked to in a while (since the last grandma letter) and we normally end up catching up on regular life for more time then we spend discussing the latest epistle.

I know a couple of my friends do look forward to them for the sheer entertainment value!

AJ
 

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Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 
Poisoned Soup for the Soul?
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 

 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Oh, I saw that - I didn't mean legally. Unless stalker means lonely and imagining a captive audience, she probably thinks she's fulfilling her duty.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 

quote:

---

Unless stalker means lonely and imagining a captive audience

---

Yes I think that is exactly where most stalkers start.

AJ
 

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Posted by Anthro (Member # 6087) on :
 
Bob:

I prefer Arsenic for the Soul, personally.
 

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Posted by NicoleValentine (Member # 6206) on :
 
Just finished reading back the four pages in this thread, and I have to say, I don't think I could deal with that nearly as well if she were my grandmother. It's so great that you can take the letters so light at heart. I really respect that.
That being said, the letters definitely have great entertainment value. I think you ought to compile them and publish it, as you mentioned. I think many readers would be highly ammused.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
The latest letter coming shortly. She's actually mostly sane this time. I really wonder if it is just dementia fading in and out sometimes. I think her comments on the Passion of the Christ are both valid and amusing.

AJ
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
At the top of the page above the date.

quote:

---

Booklet our church handed out Sunday

---

quote:

---

Many of you have looked for love in a physical relationship. You tell yourself, "If I share my body, I will feel loved." But you never do.

---

quote:

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Maybe you have promised yourself to never let anyone get close enough to hurt you. You keep people far away from your heart so you wont feel pain.

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quote:

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Confident Hope for eternal life is only found in the One who died and came back from the dead--Jesus. Now He holds the keys of death and can raise you -- and those you love-- from the dead too! Because of Jesus, our "goodbyes" can be changed to "See you again!"

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quote:

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March 2,'04
Dear Anna Jo,

Thanks so much for the Dine out meal we had at the Olive Garden after Church SUnday. We both had ( Big platter ) wonderful meals & ice tea & salad & had money left for the tip. Thanks to you and Steve! Yum! Yum!
[I sent them an Olive Garden gift certificate for Christmas so that I didn't get the year before's backlash]

Yesterday our temp gotg up to 62 so "Spring is just around the corner," as they say.

We have a new "loaner car" now. It is a '95 Pearl Lincoln. Aunt Marylynn just came to borrow it today while her car is in getting fixed. WE drive a Silver '97 Lincoln. THey both drive so good. We like to have an extra car for our children to borrow. Linda [my cousin]age 18 has borrowed it too. She goes to Lancaster Bible college for 2 classes a week free,but is still 12th grade Home Schooler!

Did you see The "Passion of the Christ" I'm not going because I've seen 3 Passion Plays in times past. One was called a (Living Easter Message). 3 men were roped to crosses & looked miserable hanging there. I know Jesus suffered the most with pain & spiritual suffering for all the sins of the World. We killed him, it wasn't the Jews. He could have called 10,00 angels, but he dield for you & me. Aunt Janice went to see it with 80 people from her churhc. She said she had nightmares that night & couldn't sleep. It took 3 days to get all that blood out of her mind, so she could function at work. The ressurection was only given 1 minute at the end. Of course Easter is my favorite day to celebrate Jesus. I usually send Easter Cards out.

Logan Kibbler age 18 next door [also my cousin] is a great Christian! He can drive his friends to Volleyball gamnes. He plays on J.V. team. He paid $300 for a VMW, because it ran into a ditch. & fan hit radiator Uncle Wendell just pulled it away from the fan. [That's what she wrote, I'm torn between BMW or VW... don't know which] They all are great mechanics and can fix anything. Guy sold it because he though fixing it would cost too much. Logan won another friend to Christ last week. They are so happy they are going to heaven & keep asking Logan for more info. Jesus is coming soon! Love,XOX Mamaw

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quote:

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Logan won another friend to Christ last week

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Phrases like this always bother me. Like the person actually had control over it or something.
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
AnnaJo, this is so much better. Do you think that positive reinforcement from you would help encourage the sane part of her?
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Unfortunately I'm afraid it would trigger the other part.

I don't understand it at all. You have only read the recent bad letters because there haven't been a lot of good ones, but over the seven years I've been getting them, there is no rhyme or reason to when she goes nuts. There have been some newsy ones and postcards with out anything offensive in them, but those are probably no more than 50%.

I don't know. If I did I wouldn't be so confused.

AJ
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
Truly bizarre.

At least you know that a whole cohort of rational, well-adjusted people think the letters you've posted are viciously nutty.
 

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Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 
This letter seems perfectly normal.

It's interesting because the news items seeme to center around cars and how good they are. Is grandma trying tell you something? What kind of car do you drive?


 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Bob we find out where the car tie-in was going in this letter...

This one was not unexpected as my Mother told me that my cousin Austin got engaged.

Letter to follow shortly...

AJ
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
1/ March 9,’04

Dear Anna Jo,

Austin will be 22 in April & just gave a diamond ring to Shelly Kaeggy his girlfriend. We are all so excited. She is a sweet Christian & really loves Austin. ?She graduates fromcollege in June & he has a job. Her initials will be the same S. K (ibler). First he asked her parents when she was away if he could marry her. They said yes & he searched for 3 days to buy her the best ring he could afford. He tried to think up ways of askin her to marry him. Finally when he said he would cook her a meal & serve it on a small table in the LR [Living Room of his parent’ house] by the fireplace. He only grills steaks, so Patty [Austin’s mother] said she would cook the meal & Truely & Cherish [Austin’s sisters] dressed up in black with white aprons & served the dinner to them. After they served dessert Aunt Patty & girls came over here

2/ to our apartment. Patty called her folks [Shelly’s parents] to come over to our apartment to wait for Austin’s call. After she said “yes” & he gave her the ring they danced a while to music he picked out. The cal came & we all rushed over to Congradulate them.

It was so much fun! Logan, age 17, helped clean the house & set the table & the girls cooked all day. Cherish said, “I hope after we worked so hard she doesn’t say NO.” Earlier Logan said “after cleaning up so much I hope she says “yes”.”

A. Patty laughed so much too. Shelly was surprised because he never asked her for her ring size.? It was a 7 & she wears 6. They will have to go get it sized right soon.

It looks like they will be the first ones to get married. I always thought it would be you Anna Jo.! Can you quit your job now & get married there in a pastor’s study or justice of the peace.? You & Steve could come to our 5 bedroom shore house near the Ocean City, MD boardwalk. We give Honeymoon Couples the whole house free for a week [the word free is actually double underlined in the letter] We have March to June 5th not rented except for (April 10-17). You could drive here & use our (loaner car) ’97 Lincoln. Come to visit everyone here. Your mom might fly out if she had 2 weeks notice to buy tickets. I really miss seeing you & your family & am anxious to meet Stephen or Steve Jones

Love, Mamaw

3/ P.S.
I hope you & Steve can pay for your home on ONE income[the word “one” was circled in the letter] We cut corners & rented 4 houses & raised 7 [circled] children on a low income. You should have 3 or 7 children which are the best numbers, before you are middle-aged and not young like the Bible says . (Psalm 127:4) It is fun to grow up with the children & when you are old they can care for you.

I can’t begin to tell you how blessed I feel when like today, U. Glenn had the day off & came over at noon & Aunt Janice came over to have lunch at 12:30. They made a salad & I made grill cheese sand. [sic] The loaded the dishwasher & left. Glenn said he was so glad they left California. I’m so glad the came to live here near her 2 brothers & all of us. Their home is fantastic. We wish you would come to Jesus today & let God show you the way.

We love you,
Mamaw
XOXO

4/ P.P.S
Men get the curse of working by the sweat of thy face. Gen 3:19 It equals womans 3 [circled] curses –able to get pregnant every month instead of once a year, pain in child birth, & her husband shall rule over thee. Today you can’t have a two headed home. When you can’t agree on a color to paint the house he makes the final decision. You can always say “I told you so” when he is wrong. HA. But that isn’t nice. I’ve been saved from death several times by taking his advice when I thought he was wrong. A true home when there is lots of love is lots of joy. I know as Papaw got saved at age 59 & the last 18 years are the best ever. P.T. Lord.
 

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Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
 
Down until here: "It looks like they will be the first ones to get married" I liked it... Why didn't I stop reading ?!

((((AJ))))
 

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Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
 

quote:

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You should have 3 or 7 children which are the best numbers, before you are middle-aged and not young like the Bible says .

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Is the numbers part in the Bible? 3 or 7? Or is it just weird superstition?

You know how God feels about superstition, Mamaw.
 

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Posted by HRE (Member # 6263) on :
 
From my understanding of Psalm 127, it says that you should have children in your youth:

quote:

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3 Sons are a heritage from the LORD ,
children a reward from him.
4 Like arrows in the hands of a warrior
are sons born in one's youth.
5 Blessed is the man
whose quiver is full of them.
They will not be put to shame
when they contend with their enemies in the gate.

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quote:

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19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return."

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quote:

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16 To the woman he said,

"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you."

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I see no mention of monthly fertility.

I haven't been following your letters...aside from the obvious, is your grandmother "all right"?
 

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Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
I hope you don't take her letters too seriously and can just laugh at them. They are entertaining. Telling you how many kids to have? Man, that is just going too far. And the monthly fertility--dunno where that came from. She scatters "wisdom" and "advice" like candy.
 

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Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
So it is Stephen or Steven? She sure doesn't seem to know much about your SO, does she?

Of course, I can certainly understand if you two would never want to have to actually talk to her in person, based on these letters.

The # of kids thing did crack me up -- I've never heard that before.

Hugs to you AJ -- you're a strong person and I know you won't let her words get to you. Just follow your own path.

Farmgirl
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
AJ,

I think your poor grandma just makes a lot of typos. For instance:

"Can you quit your job now & get married there in a pastor’s study"

really meant:

"Can you quit your job and get married in a POSTER'S study..."

So, you and Steve should get married here on Hatrack. It is certainly a poster's study. It is also a study of posters.

Liz
 

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Posted by HRE (Member # 6263) on :
 
And, in the lack of a minister, I am legally allowed to marry you. Not that kind of marry...you know what I mean.
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
I think the best part is the contrast between the "have lots of kids" and that women being able to get pregnant every month is a curse.

Um . . .



I guess as someone with three kids, I should be thrilled that it's one of the "best numbers."



And do I have this right? It's good for a woman to go to college (like your cousin's fiancé) but not to have a job (as only the cousin having one is mentioned, and she thinks you should quit yours (I'm completely mystified on the reasoning there))?


As usual, bizarre. And fascinating, rather like a car wreck.
 

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Posted by Dead_Horse (Member # 3027) on :
 
rivka, you read my mind!
(((AJ)))
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
I have yet to figure out what is going to happen if the fiancee starts working. I'm assuming they think she will quit as soon as she gets pregnant. I have no idea how quickly they expect her to start popping out babies.

The thought that came to my mind when I heard the story about the proposal meal was "how quaint".

The raw bribery of the vacation house for our honeymoon was interesting. I guess it has never dawned on her that people might NOT want to honeymoon in Ocean City, Maryland.

Oh the 3 and seven thing. Three for the Trinity and 7 for completion like the days of creation.

AJ
 

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Posted by aka (Member # 139) on :
 
Oh, and on the bribery side, don't forget the mention of yet ANOTHER honkin' big diamond for a VIRTUOUS WOMAN! <laughs>

Just see what you're missing, AJ!

Who could possibly prefer a job to the curse of having seven children and obeying your husband and ... what was our other curse again? Oh, yeah, getting pregnant every month. (Does she mean having periods, you think?)

I just heard about a book written by an Algerian Army officer, using the pen name of a woman, about some people in Afghanistan. He said he's astonished that U.S. liberals are against the war in Iraq, since the people we are fighting (he means the extreme Islamists) are against everything we in America hold dear. He said that the most horrible societies in the world, those which are the worst to live under, are those which treat women badly. Like Afghanistan. And your grandma's. You are free, AJ. Grandma tried to cast those chains around you but you are free.

[ March 14, 2004, 06:10 AM: Message edited by: aka ]
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
Oh, of course, ak! That must be what she meant. She didn't mean a curse, she meant The Curse! *snickers*
 

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Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
 
Have you quit your job yet, AJ?

((((Banna))))
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Banna, I'm serious. Your grandmother sounds slightly screwy, but honestly well-intentioned.

From her point of view, since she does not understand that you are not operating from the same premises she is, your behavior is irrational. Her behavior is irrational to most of Hatrack, because most of Hatrack is not operating on her assumptions.

If the letters really bother you, I'm serious, TELL HER. Tell her you love her, you appreciate the love, but you are not operating on the same premises and you would like to be a member of the family as yourself and not as someone she imagines. It will be hard, but it will be quick, and I really think things will be better after. I don't think she has a bad heart, and she's a grandmother. I promise, she'd rather have part of you than none at all, and I really think if you tell her what's going on, they'll respect that.

It worked with mine. My grandmother was driving me crazy, and I finally told her how much I needed my grandparents love but was simply not going to change my life to fit what they wanted, but please be my grandparents anyway. My dad got used to my brother abandoning the belief system.

*thinks* If anything, they are harder on the people they suspect might still be listening. My baby brother gets a ton more flack than the other two. *grin* What you need to do is kill all hope that you'll ever listen. They love you.

</advice>

[ March 14, 2004, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Actually kat, I'm beginning to reach my goal. This letter really didn't bother me in the least. The most annoyed I got was when I was typing it in and doing all the UBB tags because they are a pain. I think that has been my goal, getting to where they don't bother me no matter what she says. It has taken a long time for me to get there, and I may still have relapses. But they shouldn't bother me. I should be able to blow them off as the batty ravings of a loony grandma that means well and is basically harmless.

I'm posting them now more for their sheer entertainment value. I know Tom Davidson rotfls at each one.

AJ
 

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Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 
If you quit your job, you'd have more time to post on Hatrack.

Unless raising those 3 or 7 kids took up some time.

(((AJ)))
 

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Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 
I'd hate to be kid 4 or, God forbid, kid #8!!!
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
AJ, I'm busy admiring your sense of humor and perspective.
 

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Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
Well, if you decide you want to get married, my study's pretty small, but you're welcome to it.
 

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Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :
 

quote:

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When you can’t agree on a color to paint the house he makes the final decision. You can always say “I told you so” when he is wrong.

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Because passive agressiveness is just so Christian?

Or because men have such good taste in colors?


 

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Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :
 
And the best biblical number for kids is definitely 12.

Or maybe 144,000.

 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
bump because I don't know if tom reads threads on weekends <grin>

AJ
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Thank you, Anna.
 

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Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
 
After a long time, finally I've got around to read this. It's funny, in a sad kind of way. BannaOJ, your grandmother remembers me of one eldery lady whom I teach.

I mean...she's nice and well-meaning, but she does give me a hard time "advising" me about what I should do about my life.

Fortunatelly, my own grandmas are real dolls.

I hope yours can, someday, understand you and the choices you made in your life.

(((BannaOJ)))
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
btw I think all of the links to off site scans are broken.

Eduardo, there is "nice and well-meaning" and then there is "control freak" and I still haven't decided which my grandma is.

AJ

quote:

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I hope yours can, someday, understand you and the choices you made in your life

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I've given up on that. Hoping hurts too much.

[ August 19, 2004, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
 

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Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
 
I am reading an Agatha Christie novel, who's name slips my mind.

In it one lady is described as being "Nice and caring and totally selfish. She doesn't realize, in her self-centered world, how much damage she does with her uncalled advice and blind efforts to help."

She reminded me of your grandmother.

Of course, this woman is killed by a, as yet undiscovered, murderer.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Funerals are Fatal?

That's why I love Agatha Christie. She has shocking insight into human beings, and can create characters in a sentence. She'd kill at the one-line descriptions thread.
 

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Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
 
"Funerals are Fatal"...I don't remember this book...maybe they misnamed it when translating to portuguese. Sometimes they do that...
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Hmmm, I was looking for the thread where I posted about a conversation I had with my mother. The one where I went back to talking about home equity loans because that was the only sane thing I could talk about. I thought it might be here but it isn't.

AJ
 

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Posted by Stray (Member # 4056) on :
 
I remember reading that, but I don't recall if it was in a thread you started or one that someone else started.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Yeah, you're grandma is seriously wacked. She'd give my mother a run for the money.
 

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Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
 
I think it was the birthday christmas thread AJ, but maybe not.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
I've got a couple of grandma doozies lately. The last one used "fornicator" in it. Was fairly innocuous for the first 4 pages to lull you into complacency, and then the last two *WHAM*. I'll have to find it and type it in when I've got time.

AJ
 

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Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
 
What a family, AJ. At least you have your friends, Steve, and a lot of Corgis
 

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Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
 
I get weekly sermons from my grandmother for not calling her during the week. is she a bad grandma, she says (yes). What if she died in the meantime (what if I died in the meantime?) But so long as I'm living at home, I'm sorta bound on visiting.
 

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Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
"Then you could burn it!"

LMAO, Bob!

Wow, Anna. I have to admit after reading the last thread you bumped, I was wondering if the zany hijinks in passive-aggressive attacks had peaked. But it would seem your mother is simply the Obi-Wan to Mamaw's Qui-Gon

The trouble with people like this is that, yes, they do have good intentions-on the surface. Of course they tell themselves, "I only want what's best for my (insert relationship here)!" and in fact they mean it. On the surface.

But when 'what's best for' always includes 'precisely what I say', then that person is lying to you and to themselves. Your grandmother, and your mother, are obviously lying both to you and to themselves, in almost every word they write. They do not intend malice, but it seems obvious to me that it's definitely there, and their only excuse is that they are unaware of it.

It's a piss-poor excuse. This is what happens when people confuse traditions and religion and holiness.

I'm sorry again that you have to deal with this, as others have said, it cannot be easy. For what it's worth, though, I commend your method! You've certainly got a lot of patience and self-discipline. I can tell you that if I were in your situation, the bridges wouldn't just have been burned, they would've been napalmed, nuked, and then rolled over with tractors. Then nuked again.

It really is ironic that you are exhibiting much more Christian characteristics than either your mother or grandmother. They're not exclusively Christian characteristics, of course, but I can't help but laugh at the thought of them laughing at the idea.

Anyway, I ramble. Good work! I'm sorry they keep giving you things to grind your teeth over, but it seems to me you've handled it in a way that does you great credit.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
*hugs Rakeesh* thank you for your kind words. Currently I'm not in the throes of emotional pain that I was when I started this thread. That's not to say that it is easy, but I'm in a much healthier place now than I was then. It's interesting to see how far I've come. Having this as a venting point definitely helps.

AJ
 

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Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
 
Excellent! I'm glad to hear you're able to salvage some serenity out of the whole nasty business. (Of course, the letters make me think, "Serenity now! Serenity now!")

Of course normally I'd say in a thread talking about one's family, "This is a credit to good parenting." But somehow, I think handling well constant parental attacks and viciousness like this in a good and productive way doesn't quite apply
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Y'know. I want to thank Hatrack for being there with me through the rough patch in my life that this thread documents, and kind of close out the story.

Grandma now has mild dementia. They don't know if it will go into full fledged Alzheimer's or not. I do wonder if some of the nuttiness in these letters was a pre-cursor, I wondered it then but it isn't like my family was going to listen to my opinion on the matter.

My brother got married about a year ago. Grandma was present. She's now 83 or 84 I think. It was actually kind of sad. Now that her 3 daughters *know* that she's literally losing her mind and can't exert control over them, she's ignored until it suits them.

For example: rehersal dinner, they had flown out cross-country that morning, and she had literally been up for about 20 hours, and was complaining she was tired. They all ignored her, until finally one of the son-in-laws pointed it out to them twice, and they finally did get her to a hotel where she could rest.

On the other hand I can't exactly blame them considering how domineering she was over their lives for so long. She has been marginalized, and isn't the center of attention anymore. I admit I didn't take it upon myself to do anything either.

Late last Fall my grandfather moved them into a sort of deluxe retirement resort, that sounds like a cruise ship without the ocean. A bunch of their friends are there as well, and even though her memory is patchy in spots she's still enjoying herself. And, once you get into the place, they will continue to take care of you regardless of your health (they have a hospital-ish wing also) until you die. This is a huge burden off of their kids, and I absolutely applaud my grandfather for having the foresight to make this decision.

AJ

A few other notes: My relationship with my mother has vastly improved in just the past year. I'm much more secure in who I am, and being able to stand up to her. They have changed a lot as my brothers grew up (and are now grown)The double standard applied to them as far as freedom goes (partially because they were Boys and I was a Girl) still grates at times, but I am happy they've come around at all.

Steve and I have been together 8 years now. Nope we aren't married. I've used a phrase of Tom D's several times, where he said once that "We were more committed to *not* getting married, than most people are to being married". Oh and I'm up to 5 corgis at home, and Steve is still tolerating them.

[ January 23, 2008, 03:11 AM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
 

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