"Our friends say it's darkest before the sun rises...we're pretty sure they're all wrong...
I am drowning, there is no sign of land... you are coming down with me, hand in unloveable hand."
I don't know what to do. I am so depressed lately. I got a 49% on my last chemistry test. Chemistry is supposed to be my best subject right now. My brother hates me now- really hates me, not just mock indignance anymore- because I got my permit... I wrote a 7 page literary analysis paper that I put a TON of work and time into, and as I saved it one last time once it was done, my computer had a "Serious internal error," and my entire paper was corrupted, and I lost ALL of it. My mom won't refill my pills and I am running out of them, which means soon I will be eating and won't have pills to take after I eat and will go back to being in pain after I eat. My moods have been wavering violently and I am just about ready to break. When I saw the psychologist for my evaluation, she said I needed to be put on mood stabilizers as soon as possible, and that she would call me about an evaluation with a psychiatrist, so I could actually be diagnosed, the beginning of this week... and it is now the end of this week and still no call. I have been listening to the Mountain Goats' "No Children" over and over, and I feel so depressed. I have thoughts of suicide like I did before when things got like this, and it doesn't help that my project (lit analysis essay and project) is on The Bell Jar by Plath. On top of that, I have this unbearable guilt about everything, even about my ex boyfriend. I want so badly to call him and apologize for making him feel like he had to hate me so much when I loved him so much, but I got some good advice and I am going to wait till I have a steady therapist to do anything like that... but then, if that psychologist never calls, how will I ever see a therapist? *sigh* I feel like I am not worthy of anything or anyone, like I am just not worth anything at all. I am definitely not worthy of Emp. I feel so bad for him, because I love him but I cannot help it when my mood gets bad and I get angry and irritable and he is the one who is there- he is always there for me- to take my anger out on, even though I don't mean to. I cannot help it. I don't deserve the great people I know. I don't even deserve to know them. I just don't feel like anything anymore, except for pretty low-down and unworthy.
"I hope when you think of me years down the line, you can't find one good thing to say.
...I hope it's already too late."
[ May 02, 2003, 02:13 AM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by BYuCnslr (Member # 1857) on :
:: hugs :: takes things one day as they come, one day at a time, I'm not sure I can offer much else. Satyagraha
Posted by Troubadour (Member # 83) on :
Index - Emp obviously thinks you're worthy. You must realise that your feelings of unworthiness are manifested from within. You're well loved in these forums, and Emp has shown again and again that he's proud to be with you. And while you shouldn't judge your worth by what anyone thinks of you, you need to at least realise that he's with you for a reason - and they're all good ones.
Call the psychologist, you need help. In the meantime, don't be so hard on yourself, try and look after yourself as much as you can. But please, get help as soon as possible.
((((((indexcard)))))))
Posted by * (Member # 4842) on :
((((Index))))
Index, you're an amazing person. You always, always make me smile. You're much loved. Don't ever forget that
-Myr
Posted by amira tharani (Member # 182) on :
*hugs Index*
What Troubs said.
I don't know anything about anything, but it sounds to me like you could do with hassling your psychologist until something happens. It's now the end of the week, as you said, so perhaps you could call and ask what's going on.
Does music affect your mood in a big way? If so, perhaps it'd help to listen to something else. I used to have a tape of fun 60s music that I'd listen to just to have a laugh and feel good about things... wonder where that's gone, that might come in useful. I also used to listen to the Lighthouse Family (British soul band) - I love them because their lyrics speak both to sadness and to hope. I've also got into classical music more recently and that helps to relax me. I find that exercise helps too - I go ice-skating and swimming once a week each (which I know isn't very much, but the weather isn't good enough for tennis yet and I loathe running and gyms) and that keeps my mood up, especially at the moment where otherwise I'm stuck in my room working for finals.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
<<<<<Index>>>>>
Oh that feeling is so familiar to me! You describe it perfectly. It's particularly prevalent among smart and talented people. People with great gifts, which you seem to be. Quite often it first hits at around your age. It may hit you off and on from now on.
1) Know that your feelings of worthlessness are your brain lying to you.
2) Natural anti-depressants I rely on very heavily are getting enough sleep and getting regular sleep, eating regularly and well, getting outside in the sun, and getting lots of exercise every day. I like to run which seems to make me feel the best. A whole lot of distance runners are people who run for this reason, I've found.
3) Antidepressant drugs help to kick you out of the spiral when you get where you can't function or are a danger to yourself. Get some doctor to give you some. Doesn't matter who. Doesn't have to be a psychiatric type. I happen to think 99% of those are worthless apart from the drugs they can prescribe you.
4) Tricks for getting through the worst of the anguished times: listen to soothing music until you fall asleep (I'm always up late for some reason, on my misery nights. If I can fall asleep I usually am better in the morning.) Talk to a friend. Feel free to talk to me anytime you see me on (theropeofallah on aim or email me at annekateard@hotmail.com). (Don't choose a friend who will just get frustrated or yell at you to snap out of it. If only it were that easy!) Drink from the reasons that hold you alive. Think about people you love who need you. I try to remember my nieces and how much they love me and I them. Sometimes this doesn't work because your brain is in the mode where it's telling you they'd all be far better off without you, but that's also a lie.
It's a battle sometimes. But there is a reason we are like this. It's part of who we are, and great gifts come along with this capacity. Also there are things you learn at the brink of the abyss that you can't find out any other way. <<<<<hugs>>>>> Good luck. Hold fast to the rope. Accept the gift.
quote:And hold fast, all of you together, to the rope of Allah, and be not divided among yourselves, and remember Allah's favour upon you; how ye were enemies and he joined your hearts in love, so that by his grace ye became brethren. And how ye were on the brink of an abyss of fire, and he did save you from it. Thus Allah makes clear his revelations unto you, that ye may be guided.
Sura 3, ayat 103, translation by Mohamed Marmaduke Pickthall.
[ May 02, 2003, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: ak ]
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Thanks you guys. You are all so wonderful. I really appreciate it. Sadly enough, I still feel awful. I always have sad/angry/scary dreams- never anything else- and I used to never even remember my dreams. Now they are all like this and it is beating down on my psyche. I will put the last dream I had in here as an example soon, but right now I have to go to school. Yippee. Thanks again everyone...
[ May 02, 2003, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
quote:Doesn't have to be a psychiatric type. I happen to think 99% of those are worthless apart from the drugs they can prescribe you.
I couldn't agree more. Is there a family physician you could talk to that would be willing to prescribe some anti-depressants for you?
This is a terrible place to be in, I know. The best thing you can do is not isolate yourself - I'm glad you posted on Hatrack.
*hugs* Will be thinking of you.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
I don't like the idea of family physicians prescribing psychoactive drugs. They often don't know what to watch for. There's no substitute for a good therapist. And "good" is defined by you -- can you work with that person and make progress?
About the feelings of low self-esteem, and then consquent guilt after you take out your anger & frustration on those around you. I just have to say from personal experience that it is VERY tough to take. But a committed person will stick with you through it as long as you are seeking help and at least trying. They know you'll slip up and lose control every once in awhile. They may bug you to take your meds or go see the therapist if you start in on them too often. But really, a person that understands what you are going through and can handle it deserves a lot of credit.
Don't sell yourself short. If you could only see yourself through his eyes, you'd know that you are obviously worth the time, the attention, and the love.
Your feelings of guilt over beating up on him only compound your own self-doubt, right? It is a very viscious cycle. Somehow you have to break it. That takes a lot of help. And objectivity too.
I hope you find a great therapist and you don't decide to jettison all the people close to you. They don't want you to. But when people are depressed, they often think that everyone would be better off if they weren't having to deal with it all the time. Let them decide how much they can handle, okay?
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
IC,
I've gone through a lot of depression and feelings of unworth in my life, but I've come to realize something, and maybe it will help you. The people that choose to share their lives with us, and many of those that don't choose to but do anyway (like our families, for example), are not blind to the things we don't like about ourselves. The people that love us know our bad parts as well as our good parts and they still choose to be with us. So when we feel like we're unworthy to be around other people, like we're not good enough for them, we have to remember that it's not for us to judge that. They have made their own decisions and have found that the good parts are at least worth the bad parts. And if they have decided that we are worthwhile, then why shouldn't we feel that way as well?
Try not to be so hard on yourself. No one gets an instruction manual with life, and we all just do the best we can.
Posted by Dragon (Member # 3670) on :
(((((((((Index)))))))))
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
(((IC)))
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
(((Index)))
Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
((((((IndexCard))))))
Yes you DID feel any better after reading the replies, even though you didn't realize it. It showed in your second post, you thanked us which means you felt somehow grateful, which means you have felt some spark of joy, however small.
So hold on to the rope, come back here and tell us about your dreams. We are here with you.
My practical advice would be to
a) Drink lots of water b) Keep a daily list of your moods, of how you slept, of other factors that seem important to you when it comes to sudden mood changes. You might discover some triggers or a pattern that can help you get control over them.
Posted by Godric (Member # 4587) on :
The Mountain Goats are a pretty cool little band, but I don't know if I'd want to listen to them while I was depressed. Music always has a big affect on me, especially if I'm depressed.
I used to have terrible mood swings back in high school and although I have never seriously considered suicide, I did feel hopeless, unloveable, unloved and suffered from a complete lack of motivation. I still struggle with all of these feelings (especially the lack of motivation) so I know what you are talking about.
I don't know you at all really, but judging from your posts you seem like a wonderful person. I'd just like to join in with everyone who's posted on this thread to encourage and support you. There's some great advice and some great hearts here.
Don't give up and don't give in!
(((IC)))
Posted by Toretha (Member # 2233) on :
*huggles* one step in front of the other, one step at a time. You can do it. Don't believe the feelings-you're a great person!
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
(((((Index))))
Posted by LR (Member # 5109) on :
Scary world isnt it? It gets worse everydayfor a person sometimes. Trust me I've been down dark roads and seen and done darker things. But you know what pulls people like us out of it is other people offering a little hand. Next thing you know you find yourself with a new friend and brighter paths. You have plenty of people offering hands here but I'm offering mine too.
Posted by kwsni (Member # 1831) on :
Index, we all love you, and I know Emp loves you. and most of all, Simon loves you!
Go on a trail ride, or take emp to see him, and just hang out with pople who love you.
((hugs))
Ni!
[ May 03, 2003, 02:29 AM: Message edited by: kwsni ]
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Thanks you guys. You all made me feel a lot better.... and yeah, my family doc perscribed me anti depressants which I won't take till I see a psychiatrist. And I had a talk with Emp... he said just what you said Bob, that he understands what I am going through and that he wouldn't leave me just for something silly like that. Thank you guys all for all the hugs and reassuring words, and thanks for giving me really great advice. You guys are all wonderful =) And I am thinking bout a trail ride... hehe. Thank you all ever so much. ((((HATRACK))))
[ May 03, 2003, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Emp is a man after my own heart. I know what both of you are going through. I sincerely hope you make it. It takes a lot of work for you and a lot of love for him. But understanding is the key.
Don't give up. Ever.
At its worst, this disease is not all there is to you and your worth.
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
(((((((Bob)))))))
Thanks, Bob. =) I really appreciate it. You're wonderful.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
And at best, it's actually a great gift, which is more and more how I'm coming to see it. It's a whole suite of wonderful abilities and depths and sensitivities, with one side effect being a tendency to deep despondency under certain circumstances. All in all I would not change myself if I could. I would not be otherwise.
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
(((((((ak))))))) Good, because I like you the way you are. You are wonderful =) Thank you for all your advice. I wouldn't want you to be otherwise, either. =)
[ May 04, 2003, 02:14 AM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
<<<<<<Index Card>>>>>> These are just some things I've done. You'll find what works best for you. You're going to be fine. We all are with you supporting you. Posted by Julian Delphiki (Member # 2015) on :
((((((IndexCard)))))) Hugs and prayers from one whos been through it.
Posted by Ophelia (Member # 653) on :
(((((Index)))))
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
((((index))))
ive been there and back and there again. youll get through it. Emp will stick with you, hes a good guy. God knows ive stuck through worse things for love. talk to me sometime. feel better and dont listen to depressing music. as a music junkie i can tell you that it wont help, obviously, lol
--ApostleRadio
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
((((Index))))
Sorry I haven't responded sooner. Been busy as all heck this weekend. Most of what I was going to say has already been said. Just wanted to let you know I read it and that I care about you. When you get the package that I am sending Wednesday, do me a favor and follow the instructions I give you. Posted by Emperor Palpatine (Member # 3544) on :
I love you.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Back at ya, big guy! Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Hehee.... Emp, Bob, you two have my blessing, and best wishes to ya!
[ May 06, 2003, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by Emperor Palpatine (Member # 3544) on :
(((((Bob)))))
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
I hate to interrupt whatever is going on between Emp and Bob...
... but I have more to bend Hatrack's ear about. I am sorry if I seem like I am complaining, but I just... I'm so sad. And I can't stop it this time. I'm having bad and uncontrollable thoughts and I can't stop crying at... well, nothing.
After the evaluation, the lady said she'd call me within like... less than 4 days, and it was almost 2 weeks before she spoke with my mom again, because my mom called her. I called the lady like 5 times and she still didn't call back. Anyway, when my mom spoke to her yesterday, the lady said she'd call today and set up the appointment. But still... no call from the doc. I feel awful that not even a psychologist cares about me. And I know that so many people care about me.... but I just don't FEEL like anyone does. Do you know what I mean?
And my thoughts waver helplessly between wantng to live and wanting to sleep without ever waking again... But I want to live. I just don't want to live like this anymore... Lines from the song Black and Blue run through my head-
Fading everything to black and blue, you look a lot like you'd shatter in the blink of an eye...
I can't stop this. I refuse to call that lady because she really DOESN'T care about me, and I don't trust her... I need a psychiatrist but after this, it will be even tougher for me to trust one... I don't know what to do.
Emp, I am sorry. Thank you for being so supportive. Thank you everyone for being so supportive, and I am sorry for complaining so much. Now, I guess Iwill go read myself into another world where everything doesn't seem so incredibly wrong. Posted by xnera (Member # 187) on :
*hates all the incompetent therapists out there*
I'm so sorry to hear you're having problems with your doctor. Please remember that it isn't a reflection of you; it's a reflection of her.
You are in school, yes? I'm not sure how old you are. When I was in college, I took advantage of the counseling services there. It was free, I could go during my break periods, and I actually really liked the therapist. If you need to talk to someone soon, then definitely get in to see your school therapist. That's what they're there for.
Otherwise, hon, you and your parents will just have to get on that silly lady's case, or try to find services elsewhere. See if your city has any sort of family services. I'm seeing a therapist via my village, and it's only costing me $10 a session, and she's wonderful.
And hey, there's nothing wrong with complaining. I've been complaining about my jobless situation to anyone and everyone who speaks to me. It's simply what I need to do right now. If you need to keep talking, then talk. Better to let it out than to keep it all in.
In the meantime, do some nice things for yourself. Take a walk around the block. Buy yourself flowers. Take a bubble bath. Light a candle. Listen to some soothing music. Pet a cat. I find these little things can sometimes calm me and make me feel a bit better.
Take care. *hugs* You're in my thoughts.
--xnera
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Poor Index! <<<<<<<<<<<<<hugs>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's awful that they aren't calling you back! Grrrr! I promise all the talk talk business is really no help. It's all about brain chemistry. Get some drugs to help knock you out of the spiral. You can get those from any family doctor. Any doctor at all, in fact.
The hard part is realizing with one part of your brain which of the other parts of your brain are telling you lies, and how to trick them and cajole them into doing what has to be done to make all parts of you feel better.
What your brain is telling you to do is lie in a dark corner and brood, for instance, when that will make you feel much worse. If you can manage it somehow, try to get outside during the day into the sunshine, or even if it's cloudy. The amount of light outside is so much more than inside, and it's full spectrum light, and all that light in the optic nerve makes a big difference. If you can manage it, try to do some good exhausting exercise every day. This will send natural chemicals into your brain that will help counteract some of what's going chemically wrong up there.
But sometimes it's so bad that you can't manage to make yourself do any of that. In that case you just HAVE to get some anti-depressant drugs. They knock you out of the spiral long enough for you to be able to get back on track again. I never take them for long, because I don't have to, but they are essential sometimes to life.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<index>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm so glad you told your mom and all. Do NOT push away all the people who love you during this time when you feel so bad. (That's another thing your brain may tell you to do that's wrong.) Let them love you and help you and take care of you. Love them back even through the pain. There is infinite strength in that to pull you through. Hold fast to the rope. Accept the gift. We are praying for you.
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
((((((index)))))))
It sucks I know. But you are cool and special, and you have a magic color changing horse. How many other people can say that? Thats what i thought, none. so youve got a good thing goin.
I hope you feel better.
--ApostleRadio
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Thanks guys. I'll take all of that great advice. And thanks, AR, I guess I should be proud of my color changing horse. Too bad my mom is going out tonight and I can't go to see him... Wow, it's been a week since I saw him. If this goes on any longer, I'll die from having withdrawls. Heh. But thanks, guys.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:I promise all the talk talk business is really no help.
I agree with a lot of what you say, Anne Kate, but not with this. It really depends on the circumstances. At their worst, psychologists pick at the wrong places, make people insecure, and create problems where there are none. At their worst, psychiatrists view people as nothing more than a collection of chemicals and prescribe drugs for everything. Psychology and psychiatry are both in their infancy, and there are a ton of incompetents and quacks in both fields. Frankly, at times it seems like a (hopefully slim) majority are quacks and incompetents. A lot of us have encountered incompetents and still bear the scars and the bitterness.
If your problems are rooted primarily in chemistry, then you need a psychiatrist. But not all problems are. Some problems are rooted in your life experiences. Mine were like this. If I had gone to a quack psychiatrist, I would probably have developed a lifelong dependence on drugs to mask my symptoms, when what I needed was to work through some bad stuff. Sadly, psychologists came too late into my life, at a time when I had found my own imperfect way through the darkness, but what I needed was a psychologist, not a psychiatrist.
I think it's a wonderful thing that psychologists and psychiatrists are starting to work in tandem, instead of sneering at each other. (It doesn't change the fact that most of them are quacks, but all positive change takes time, neh? ) Working together, hopefully they can determine what is truly best for a person, instead of pushing their particular paradigms like medieval religions.
But I wish you wouldn't recommend to people that they never see psychologists.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
But even if one's problems arose because of bad stuff in one's life, they manifest themselves in the form of altered chemistry and even altered brain morphology.
Talking and understanding your problems is a great help, but I believe friends are the real people to share your sorrows with. They actually care, as opposed to professionals who are required by law not to care.
[ May 08, 2003, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: ak ]
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Talking with friends is a good thing, and it can be very helpful. But, under the best of circumstances, an intelligent and well-trained and experienced psychologist who is not a quack is likely to ask the questions you don't want to answer but need to, whereas your friends may be the type to do this or they may be the type to want to help you avoid unpleasantness. A good psychologist may help you realize that what you need to do is something that you are avoiding because you find it unpleasant, whereas some friends will help you avoid unpleasant things. It's very common for your friends to want to help you feel happy now, without being conscious of or having insight into what you need for the long haul. As far as the dispassionate thing, you need to be able to trust your psychologist, but you don't need to like him or her. A friend may be afraid to lose a friendship by confronting you with unpleasant truths, but a psychologist doesn't need to fear the loss of your friendship.
Of course there are a lot of caveats in the preceding paragraph. That's because, as I noted, the field is in its infancy and there are a lot of worthless therapists out there.
I do not believe that the answer to every psych issue is chemicals. I think there are appropriate uses for psychologists and psychiatrists, and there are times when neither will be of benefit.
Back when I used to be more screwed up, I hung around with all the screwed up people. Some of these people never got any help, some went to psychologists, and some went to psychiatrists. Back then, it was uncommon for psychologists and psychiatrists to work in tandem. People I know chose who they went to for the most uneducated reasons. Some actually were not aware that there was a difference and went to someone who was recommended. Some chose psychologists because they did not want to go to a pill pusher (I was one of them). Some chose psychiatrists because they believed psychiatrists were more educated and therefore more likely to solve their problems. (I suppose these people have a medical doctor fill out their tax return and look over their contracts as well! ) Each and every single person I knew who went to a psychiatrist was put on drugs. Not a single one of those people was ever taken off of those drugs by a psychiatrist. So in every single case, evidently, the de facto diagnosis was incurable chemical imbalance, eh? I believe psychiatry is no less in its infancy than psychology is.
I believe it's possible to cure some mental ills with medicine. I believe it's possible to mask some others without really curing them. And I believe sometimes you can resolve psychological issues with a trustworthy therapist who will challenge you to confront your problems.
It's conceivable that a friend can fill that role for you, but you really don't know how equipped a friend is to do it well. Somebody who only wants to support you, to make you feel well from moment to moment, to love you even, may not be the right person for this job. And just because somebody is your friend does not necessarily mean he or she is insightful enough to cut through the lies you tell yourself when you are dealing with psychological issues. It takes someone with an incredible sense of logic and incredible perception. Even if you have such a friend, he or she will not be a colleague of your psychiatrist, and will not be able to confer with your other doctors.
Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
My therapist has become my friend. I trust her, and she cares for me, I am sure of that.
Besides, why would someone become a therapist? I still happen to think that the good ones have this typical kind of the love of a healer that is their source. So they DO care.
I am telling you this, IndexCard, because I hope you will not loose every trust in those people. And I don't think it's an either/or question, getting helped by a therapist versus friends. I need both and I need them both hard.
Posted by amira tharani (Member # 182) on :
*agrees with Icarus and ginette here*
I only ever needed to see a psychologist once, but for me it was absolutely the right thing to do. What was wrong with me was only temporary - I basically burned out and needed time to recharge my batteries which I didn't get at school, and then it was just a case of thinking up strategies to make sure I didn't do that again, which is where the psychologist came in - he was really good at helping me get a handle on what was happening to me and I think that his being detached was necessary to that.
*hugs Index* But take the rest of aka's advice - natural highs like sunlight and exercise and the love of a good man are worth so very much, take time to enjoy them.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
When suicide starts to seem like a reasonable, sane idea, then you know you need to do something. When you wake up in the morning and the utter endless futility of life settles down upon your chest like a coffin lid. When you look into the future and see nothing but one day trudging ahead of the next to the grave. When you just want to be alone from now on, because the energy or desire to speak or interact seems to have left you forever. When every act becomes a weariness. When you have to trick and force yourself to eat, to sleep, to work, to breathe. Like me now. Then you know you must do something. But you have no will left with which to do it. So what you do is pare down to something you can manage. What you do is breathe. In and out. You can manage that. It's really all that's required for the time being. Is just to breathe. I don't understand why people must go through times of feeling like this. But I believe there is a good reason. I believe it is valuable in some way. We try not to have to suffer more than necessary, but there is still that irreducible amount of anguish that is just part of our being, for some reason. Perhaps we are suffering for others. I like to think that, at these times. Perhaps by so doing I am sparing someone else, maybe. Someone somewhere in some other universe, even. Perhaps someone who's not as strong as I. Not as able to bear it. And I can bear it. I've had long practice. Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
(((ak)))
[ May 09, 2003, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: Icarus ]
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
I agree with all of you in a lot of ways. And ak, I know how that feels. It is how I feel right now. It is how I felt ever since my best friend killed herself and my dad died, and it only got worse after that through the things that happened. I'm sorry you have to feel that way. ((((ak)))) I think I've been able to bear it because I like ot think maybe it's taking it away for someone else, and I know I can bear it. I'm used to it... I just don't want to feel like this anymore. I want to be able to make Emp happy, and not always hear him having to say that it's okay, that he understands and he isn't mad. I want to be able to go into my mom's room after school or when she gets home from her date or whatever and tell her how my day was, without being afraid to add in all the things that I feel badly about. I want to wake up in the morning and look forward to the day. I don't want to feel sad that I had to wake up at all, ever. I want to be able to get in a fight with my brother and not be scared. I want to walk through the school halls and not get funny looks, or bemade fun of in my classes behind my back and have things thrown at me. I don't want to be a freak anymore. I don't want to feel unbearably guilty about every little thing I do, even if it is not my place to feel guilty. I want to be the me again that I know my mom misses, not the me that she thinks is falling apart and needs to see a psychologist or a psychiatrist. I don't want to NEED to see one. I don't want to feel this huge, empty hole in my heart where my loved ones departed from, and I don't want to always be on the verge of tears anymore. Maybe I don't deserve to want all of this.... but I just don't think I can handle it for much longer.
[ May 09, 2003, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Last night, and for a good portion of this morning, I couldn't speak. Every time I tried to speak, fear would flood throughout my body and I wouldn''t be able to utter a word. I managed to apologize to Emp and say "Bye" to his mom when she took me home, but other than that, I couldn't talk. Even that much was difficult. Even this morning, I couldn't answer the door when my friend came over to pick up some of her stuff (I had to leave it outside in a bag with a note) and I couldnt answer the phone when Emp called to say goodmorning. By the time I was able to speak again, I had lost my voice from not talking for so long. And I don't feel like doing anything anymore. I don't want to ride my horse, I don't want to take pictures of anything, and I certainly don't want to do any of my work. I haven't been doing my best on things, or maybe this is my best right now, but it feels awful. I can't get to the mental health office because my mom is always busy, she doesn't think that we should go- just call- and none of my friends (who aactually know about all this) are willing to take me. I am going back to the office on the 13th to fill out the minor medi-cal forms, and I suppose if she doesn't get me an appointment by then, I will just bug the people at the front desk until they let me talk to her. If she doesn't call back by then, my mom will be mad and give them a hard time too, until they do something. I have big projects due in little over a week that count for a giant portion of my grade, but I can't get myself to care enough to actually start on them. I really can't. I talk and joke with the people who are willing to talk to me, but still inside there is this emptiness, this pain, this... I don't know... that makes every movement painful and difficult, every thought fleeting and unimportant, and every person, just... there. Not that I don't care about people anymore... Of course I do. More than ever, it seems, or why else would I feel incredibly guilty about everythng? I don't know. All I know is... I want this to stop. And I'd say I needed a hug... but I'm so scared of anyone touching me, that I just can't ask for even that right now.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
<<<<<<Index Card>>>>>> I understand that feeling. It's happened that I just gave up on school some quarters and barely passed or even failed some things, when I always made dean's list if I could bring myself to try. It's happened that I've just sat and cried for days on end. It's happened that I have had to crawl to the bathroom because I could not walk. It's a spiral. Most of how awful you feel is that you can't fulfill the responsibilities of being a person. That there's no reason for it. There's nothing wrong with you. You think to yourself "What are you whining about?" etc. You beat up on yourself and feel useless and worthless because of letting others down. Other people will even help you do this. They'll yell at you to snap out of it. They'll just write you off as sorry. They will be angry at you for it. All of which you agree with completely.
I know it's hard now to do anything at all, but you have to get some drugs just to knock you out of that spiral. I'm feeling the same way. And you have to drag yourself outside into the sunshine and do some exercise. All this applies to me right now as well as you.
Think of it as though it were heart disease or something. If you had bad early onset heart disease you would have to go and exercise even though you were very tired. You would not be able to do some things that you wanted to accomplish. You would have to let them go. You would be in some danger all the time of waking up dead. But it would be an enemy you could fight. It would be out in the open where you could set yourself against it and attack it with all the medicine and diet and exercise and knowledge that science can bring to bear.
This is the same. It's more insidious because it's internal. It feels like it's you instead of a disease. And in many ways it shapes who you are. Many good ways as well as bad. But it's something to be fought against. It's not on your side. It lies to you.
Read Dostoyevsky's stories. He was the greatest novelist who ever lived and he had this far worse than we do. Read the book "Touched with Fire" by Dr. Kay Jamison. It's the disease of the gifted. And many of the people we think of as the most brilliant artists, writers, musicians in history had it far worse than do we.
Hold fast to the rope. Accept the gift. I am praying for you. Please pray for me too.
Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
(((((IndexCard))))) (((((ak)))))
I also know how this feels. Thanks for sharing. I have already prayed for you, I won't stop doing it. Posted by amira tharani (Member # 182) on :
*hugs IndexCard and aka very tight* I'm praying for both of you.
Aka, I'm here and I love you, you know that, and I'm sorry I haven't been there for you enough lately... please keep checking in with me and don't hide from me, okay?
IndexCard... I don't know what to say except that I've been there and I understand how that feels. For me, the cure turned out to be massively simple - I got some time off school and went away to my aunt's house for a couple of weeks and I was just left to read and relax and get my energy back - I know for a lot of people it's a lot more complicated than that but don't underestimate the value of just disconnecting from all the things that put you under pressure and taking some serious time out. Perhaps you could talk to your teachers and see if that sort of thing is possible for you... if you think it will help, that is... And yeah, keep hassling the mental health office until you get the help you need.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I called my friend Dr. Joey and got him to prescribe me some anti-depressants. The type I used to take I had to quit taking cause they made my diabetes worse. Now I have to go up there and pick them up. Which is being ridiculously difficult, in that I have hardly moved in 2 days. I'm still feeding the cats and bathing, but I seem to bog down at the point when I have to put on clothes. I'm sleeping about 20 hours a day, and crying most of the time I'm awake... and visions of cutting my carotid artery with a sharp knife keep popping unbidden into my head. I'm not going to do it, though. The images just keep popping into my mind, which is unpleasant and weakening. I managed to get all dressed and ready to go out and run today but didn't make it out the door.
I'm listening to Radiohead which is comforting for some reason. This evening I feel a little better. I'm going to try to get to the drugstore. The drugs take several weeks to kick in, but what else can I do?
Index, give us an update on how you are doing.
Posted by JaneX (Member # 2026) on :
(((((Index))))) (((((aka)))))
Posted by amira tharani (Member # 182) on :
Did anyone know whether aka was planning not to be around today? She's not online (which is odd, usually she's online but idle or away if she's out) and she's not picking up her mobile. I don't have her home number so I can't call that. And she didn't say she'd be out... so either she hasn't bothered getting out of bed today or something's wrong. Anyone with any information, please post it or email or aim me.
*worries*
Aka, I know you'll hate me for doing this, I know it, but I'm worried and I'm too far away to do anything at all... please if you read this, check in with me okay?
Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
(((((((AnnKate)))))))
Ak, I am wondering if it is a good idea to be alone in the house if you are as sick as you describe? Shouldn't someone come over to help get you out of this? And about the images you spoke of: I have no medical background at all, but it is so unlike you to have these, I was thinking maybe it is a message to yourself about getting rid of your blood because it is poisoning you? Would a blood tranfusion do any good in some cases of diabetes problems?
Still praying for you. Hope to see your next post soon.
[ May 11, 2003, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: ginette ]
Posted by BYuCnslr (Member # 1857) on :
<<<<mei mei>>>> <<IndexCard>>
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I'm okay. I took the first of those elavils that Dr. Joey prescribed to me last night and apparently they make you very sleepy cause I just woke up at 4:30pm. Weird. Not sure how this is going to work.
I still do feel better. The weight has lifted somewhat off my chest. But I'm still very sleepy. I could sleep another six hours. Weird. I can't believe it's so late.
Index, how are you doing? We haven't heard from you in a couple of days. Can you still type?
Posted by Argèn†~ (Member # 4528) on :
Do you go to a therapist, ak? Medicine is often only a stopgap unless there is some actual therapy to accompany it. People who take meds without therapy usually need to do so for life.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Actually, people who need to take meds for biologically based illnesses often need to take them for life, even with therapy.
Index needs a proper psychiatric evaluation and to be under the care of a psychiatrist and therapist right now. She knows this, I've already offered her my opinion. She could have one of a few illnesses, each of which has symptoms that could mimic the other. PTSD often looks like Bipolar Disorder in children and adolescents. Depression can often look Bipolar in children and adolescents. So, she needs a proper evaluation and good medication management. If it's PTSD, with therapy and medication, eventually she may be able to move past it and stop medication. For depression, it can happen a few ways. In some folks, they need only to take medication for a year are so, then are good to go. In others, they may need meds for 3-5 years. In the last group, they may need to take medication for life. As for bipolar, medication is a must. I know this because of my current situation and from my professional work. However, I don't currently practice what I preach as I keep resisting medication. It's okay, I mean, it's what most newly diagnosed bipolar folks DO. It's all in the pattern.
And anne kate, I am concerned about you.
Also, I do not think that mood disorders add to the quality of life. I think they take it away. I really do. I am taking this moment of clarity in my own crap to finally be able to post things that aren't irrational. I know, with the pattern of my illness, that by later tonight and tomorrow, I will be irrational again. My senses and thoughts are already revving up. I tested a dose of the Seroquel last night and it knocked me into zombie-land till an hour ago. I won't take it again. But that's what it took for this moment of clarity. That is scary. This havoc that the illness is wreaking on my life is not worth whatever worth the illness might bring.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
<<<mac>>>
Glad to hear from you.
I've lived with mine for more than half my life now and it's better now than it's ever been. I do know that I will most likely have times when I'm very depressed off and on for the rest of my life. It's really just a small part of my life. It's something I can live with and survive. I know that because I've made it this far.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
And I wonder when this illness will kill me. Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I hope not ever, mac. But I know this. I've come to the very brink of the abyss, and I don't ever want my agency taken away. I can't think of any torture worse than being forced to stay alive against my will.
It's funny how people will admit that nobody can possibly stand up to torture without breaking, like in a war situation, but they won't admit that for some people being alive can be torture too great to take.
Looks like this latest medication I've tried isn't going to work. I took one and then slept almost around the clock. I'm still feeling groggy from that one pill, even the second day. Right now I feel better just naturally. It just eased up for some reason. But if and when it comes back, it's back to the drawing board.
Mac and Index Card, what I pray for you to be given is courage to face what's ahead for you. Courage and faith, that your lives matter, that there are things that need doing in the world that only you can do. Faith that God would not put you through this for no reason. Because after you face this down and conquer it, there is nothing in seven circles of hell that you need fear ever again.
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
I don't know what terrible thing I've done to deserve these images in my head when I try to sleep, but it must have been something awful. I used to not be able to sleep hardly at all, and maybe this is why I was an insomniac. I just don't know. Everything is so confusing. It's not even 5 in the morning and I refuse to go back to sleep... as if I could, anyway.
Before, of the short hours that I slept, I never woke up to an awful dream. I almost never rememebered my dreams. Ever since about a month after the doctor gave me Ambien to help me get to sleep, I've been able to get to sleep easier. But sometimes I still go for nights and nights witho no sleep at all, and sometimes I sleep for so long that I can't walk when I wake up. But of all the times that I do get to sleep, I have horrible, scary, angry and depressing dreams. Sometimes they involve me and people I know, and sometimes they are like I am watching a movie in my head with actors I've never before seen. I just woke up from a dream that wasn't even close to how awful the rest have been, but it was still awful enough to wake me up at 4:30 and not let me go back to sleep. Here is what I can remember.
I'm older. Maybe 30. My mom is dead. My brother is dead. Sadly enough, so is Emp, and me and Emp's son (in the dream) who I never got to see in this dream before I realized they were all dead, and whatever other relations I may have had- my uncle, grandparents, pretty much anyone who mattered to me... I have a feeling they didn't die of natural causes... I don't know how they all died, but they did. I am alone, but for my few friends that I met while traveling as far away from this place as I can. I make two really good friends, a lady and a guy. We are at the beach, a beach with many large gray boulders on the shore instead of sand. We climb out onto the farthest ones and the girl, she dives in but the hits her head on the rock and drowns before me and the guy can reach her.
That's when I woke up. This is incredibly tame compared to the other dreams (like the one where two enraged men brutally and graphically killed everyone in a car around them on the freeway as I watched in my head) but it was still awful enough to wake me up shaking and on the verge of tears. I was paralyzed for ten minutes, trying to figure out if this was a memory or a dream, and when I was finally able to turn my head, I started crying from relief that I was just me, and it was just a dream.
This kind of thing has happened every night that I have slept. Sometimes the dreams are too small to mention to anyone, because maybe they are just really angry but not scary or sad, but for the most part, my dreams since I've been able to sleep again have woke me crying and scared every time. I haven't a clue how to deal with this, except to just let them happen. I get to the point where my body doesn't get tired sometimes at night and I know it is because my mind is scared to death of going to sleep again, so it tricks me into thinking I am wide awake and not sleepy at all.
But you know what else scares me to tears?
quote: And I wonder when this illness will kill me.
That.
'Cause I hope not ever too, Mack. I love you so much. Of all the people here who are wonderful enough to have helped me, you were there for me before I ever even was a lurker here. You've become a hero of mine and I really hope that I don't outlive you. You helped me beat the bulimia, you helped me get the courage to go to the doctor's and you helped me finally go to the evaluation that I've needed for years now. And thank you for all of that. You're really special and dear to me, as to everyone else here at Hatrack. Jamie, you're my hero. And when I say that want to be like you, I mean it with all of my heart.
And everyone else.... You guys, thank you so much for caring about me enough to post or send me a message when you haven't heard from me in a while, or even just to talk to me when I randomly send you a message. All of these things, small and large, mean a great deal to me. So thank you. ((((Hatrack))))
...and sorry this post was so long.
[ May 12, 2003, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by * (Member # 4842) on :
*hugs all around*
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
anne kate, as him about lexapro. seriously. few side effects and certainly not the sedation you're talking about.
Posted by xnera (Member # 187) on :
*hugs Index*
I'm just about to go to bed and I remembered your post about your bad dreams.
First, have you talked to your doctor at all about the nightmares? Some medications can cause abnormal dreams. I had quite a few nightmares when I started Prozac, but they eventually ended. I did a search for Ambien and it doesn't look like nightmares are a common side effect, but you never know. When did you start having nightmares?
Oddly enough, I find that my nightmares are more frequent when I'm actually sleeping in a bed. I had terrible nightmares when I would stay overnight at my ex's house -- kept hearing things and thinking there were intruders in the house. And since I broke up with him, I simply cannot, for some strange reason, sleep in my own bed. I'll just lie there awake all night. So I sleep on the couch. I think I feel less pressured by the couch -- like I have a mindset that I'm not actually sleeping, I'm just going to lie down for a bit and daydream or rest or whatever, and before I know it I'm asleep. Maybe you might want to try sleeping in a place other than your bed?
I know what it's like to not want to go to sleep. I get like that when my depression flares up. For me, it's about feeling like I haven't accomplished anything during the day, so I want to stay up and do something to "save" the day. But I almost never do. It's also about fearing the future, and fearing that I may not wake up in the morning. I've spent many sleepless nights battling such irrational fears.
*hugs* Have a good night's sleep and pleasant dreams. It will get better. It always does.
--xnera
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Yeah, I finally shook the grogginess tonight and now I'm wide awake at 1 AM.
<<<<<Index>>>>> I'm so sorry about the nightmares. They are awful! When you have nightmares all night long, you wake up more exhausted than when you went to bed. The only cure I know for nightmares is to sleep a long long time. I seem to get them mostly when I don't get enough sleep. Sleeping longer seems to help.
Mac, is lexapro an SSRI? Tell me what sort of drug it is. I will ask Joey about it. Certainly I don't plan to take this Elevil again, even at half dose. It took 48 full hours for the grogginess to wear off. I must be extra sensitive to it or something.
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
Actually, elavil is a VERY sedating drug and comes in lots of doses. What dose did you take?
Lexapro IS an SSRI, closely related to celexa. It has been used more and more the last year and is thought to have less side effects and to work much faster than any other SSRI. I've seen it work amazingly well on patients.
Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
(((IndexCard)))
This is what I do to prevent bad dreams: Before I go to sleep, I read something very soothing and then I lie down and imagine a wonderful place. Sometimes I take paracetamol to relax before I go to sleep, just to be able to do this.
I also on purpose try to remember my bad, recurrent dreams during daytime without the bad feeling, as if looking to the images from a distance and then I try to decide for myself what to do in this dream the next time it happens. You seem helpless, paralyzed in your dreams, but you have power! It is possible to turn away from the bad things, just imagine for example you have a guardian angel that is able to pick you up from the bad scene, take you away and put you down in a wonderful place. Something like that, this is just an example, pick something that feels like it will work for you. Tell yourself and tell your bad dream: 'I'll defeat you! Next time I'll escape you' and if you really believe you can do this, the good/the escape you imagined will actually happen in the dream and that will be the last time you had that dream. It works, really.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote: You seem helpless, paralyzed in your dreams, but you have power! It is possible to turn away from the bad things. . . .
I have actually developed the ability over the years to consciously take over a dream if it crosses a certain threshhold of "unendurabilty" and basically say, No, this is my dream, and this isn't going to happen. I don't know quite how I came to be able to do this, but perhaps an awareness that it's possible helps. I can't do this for just any bad dream; I die in airplane crashes a lot (an exaggeration). But if it's really awful, like I am watching a loved one die gruesomely or I am reliving some trauma, my mind can seize control, kind of like a network censor. I'll see if I can karmicly send you this gift.
[ May 13, 2003, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: Icarus ]
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Thank you for your advice, everyone. I have been able to control my dreams ever since I can remember. But lately I can't control what happens inside my dream, all I can do is wake myself up if it starts getting unbearable, and I do. But when I wake up during the night, I can't go back to sleep, even if I was not having bad dreams. I have never been able to fall back asleep once I've been woken up. I have not taken Ambien in a while... lately when I wake myself up from a bad dream it is around 4 or some hour like that, when it would be absurd to take an Ambien and sleep again because then I would sleep right through school or something. And I can't miss any more school. But anyway, I know the Ambien isn't what gives me the dreams. I stopped taking Paxil a long time ago because I wanted to wait to see an actual psychiatrist, so I know it isn't that because this started a while after I stopped taking that. I do take Zantac every now and again, but since I have very few left, I only take it when I really need it, which lately hasn't been much at all... so I don't think it is that. And sometimes, in my dreams, I don't want to step in. I just want to see what will happen so that I can try to interpret it or have my therapist (if and when I actually have one) interpret it. Because I am having hard times interpreting these ones, even with my dream analysis books and all, and I have a feeling that they all are telling me close to the same thing, and if I can just interpret it, maybe they'll stop. And you know, maybe if I actually had a therapist that would work. But alas... *sigh*
Anyway, I was excited because I got to drive on the freeway the other day. I've been driving a lot lately. I have only had my permit a couple weeks. My mom said I am a really good driver, even for how short of a time I have been driving. Just thought I'd put something positive in there so that this thread isn't quite so depressing. (sorry, everyone...)
Today, I have to go to the Dept. Of Mental Health place to fill out the minor medi-cal. That psychologist has not called back for the SECOND time she said she would, and believe me. My mom and I will sure give them heck about it. (I get to drive there. ) But anyway. wish me luck that it all goes well...
Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
Lots of luck IndexCard
Keep on moving
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
::sobbing uncontrollably::
I hate my brother...
:accidentally getting tear-water on Spot's ears::
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Shan, your brother, IMO, has problems of his own which are only making your problems worse. I don't know what to suggest about this, other than to use your friends. Friends will be there to do what they can to help.
::hugs Index::
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Index>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What's happening with your projects and your school? Can you manage to go to class? Are you crashing and burning?
What can we do? I'm in terrible shape myself, too.
Faith, Hope, Love <recites as a mantra>
<tries to hear it as more than meaningless syllables>
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Faith, Hope, and Love don't live here anymore. They've abandoned me and left me unabashedly bawling my eyes out, again. Posted by Pixie (Member # 4043) on :
::hugs:: Sweetie, we'd all love to help but I think a lot of us are at a loss as to what can be done. Basically, ditto what T said. We're all here for you, Shanna, so don't be afraid to lean on us. Even those of us (myself included) who don't know you very well care a lot about you so don't turn away from people new to you either. Sometimes strangers see things we don't.
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
My brother's not the problem. He's nice to me now. This has nothing to do with my brother. I'm the problem.
I just don't have much of a reason anymore.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
to what? what will you do?
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
I'll do nothing, Mack. The only thing I can do is nothing, apparently. Everything else that I do makes people hate me. I just wish I knew why I was so unloveable.
::still crying::
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
okay. Posted by * (Member # 4842) on :
((((((((index))))))))
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Index, it may not be worth much, but *I* love you.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Index, repeat after me:
Goosfaba. Gooooooooosfabaaaaaaa. OH waa ta GOOOOOSFABAAAAAAAAA!! Oh waa ta gooosfabaaaa aye yam.... goosfaba.... goosfaba.... lickety lickety lickety bareeeeenooooo goosfaba...
Hehehe... just typing that made me laugh.
Index, I too have grown to love you like a sister. If you needed anything from me, I would do my best to give it to you. You are not a problem. Please, don't think that.
*HUGS!*
Like I said, I don't know everything on how to help, but I'd really like to. The best I think I can do is just offer my friendship.
*hugs again*
Love ya, Shan.
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Thanks, guys. I feel better now...
But I have given up on the psychiatrist. If they don't care enough to even call and make an appointment, then how in the world could they help me? I've bugged them enough. I don't know what else I can do... Any suggestions? I fear that I am unintentionally pushing Emp away little by little, as well as every one else. But how do I solve this if the only psychiatrist in the city that we can afford won't even call?
Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
I don't know about this IndexCard, but it could be the case that this psychiatrist has the results of the forms you filled in and reached the conclusion for example that compared to other patients your situation is not urgent. This is no excuse for not calling back, I know.
Tell me, do you have waiting lists in your country for getting medical attention? We do, I have been on a waiting list for about 5 months before I could get my therapy. I remember I was very angry about that, but that anger was only eating my energy, not theirs. Sometimes, when there are far more patients than there is help available, they just use what we call the 'beep-system': as long as you don't keep calling yourself, you don't get their attention. It is not a very nice system, but understandable under those circumstances.
So keep trying to get an appointment. What might work is getting this psychiatrist's emailaddress and send an email. Or maybe the psychiatrist has a phone-consulting-hour?
Good luck! And right now don't give up on this psychiatrist!
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I gave up on psychiatrists and psychologists long ago. Really those people know nothing. Quite honestly, they truly don't. People only go to them because when things are extremely bad you feel you have to try something. And they claim to be able to help you. But they can't.
What does help is the drugs. They have side effects and they are far from perfect but they're a whole lot better than sitting and crying for days and weeks while your life crashes around your head. I take them from time to time for a few weeks or months at a time, only when things get very bad. They knock you out of the spiral.
Depression feeds on itself (as you've probably discovered by now) because once you are depressed, you find you can't sleep or eat regularly which makes it much worse. Also you feel terrible about all the committments you've broken to school and work and family and friends, so that piles more guilt and sadness on. Also you don't get outside in the sunshine and you don't get any exercise. Those four prosaic pillars of good health (sleep, nutrition, exercise, sunshine) can any one of them start a depressive episode if neglected. From there it gets worse. I've learned not to neglect them for any reason whatsoever when I am feeling okay. My first episodes in college were most likely brought about by neglecting sleep and nutrition.
But even if I am careful about those things, the vicissitudes of life can kick off episodes too. I was lucky when my dad died that I was needed so much to help my mom, because that kept my focus off me and kept me busy and active so that I was able to be mostly okay. Also, Dad didn't leave voluntarily.
If someone I love leaves me, because they want to not talk to me or be my friend any more, that makes for the worst episodes of all. It's only happened twice. Both times my life was in danger.
Any family doctor can prescribe you lexapro. No need at all to wait for a psychiatrist, especially one who cares so little as this one obviously does. I hate those people. Honestly, they are evil. Avoid them! Go to your family doctor and get a prescription for an SSRI. Mac says lexapro is the best one now. It will make you better in a few weeks. Take it for a while until this episode is over (maybe 3 months), then get tired of the side effects and go off it for a while. If you stay okay, then you can leave off until the next time.
That's what's worked for me. You will learn through experience what works for you. When you're depressed I know how hard it is to just do anything at all. Just calling Joey to get that elavil took me over a week plus getting better naturally to be able to do. When it didn't work, I haven't been able to call him again for something else. Now I'm starting to come out of this episode naturally, I think, so I'm hoping I don't have to.
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
AKA, I am glad your methods work for you.
Think about what you've said, though. You have just diagnosed Index with major depression because some of her symptoms resemble yours. You have recommended a drug that has worked for depressed people just because someone told you it is a good drug. Depressive episodes last longer than three months in most people, btw. You have told her to avoid the things that you don't trust. You picked elavil, the most sedating antidepressant in existence to try for yourself.
That is a lot of dangerous assumptions. I am a primary care physician who gives out lexapro all the time. I think I put two people on it on Friday alone, in fact. And yet, I don't feel comfortable giving Index a diagnosis right now. She sounds miserable and I hope that she gets better soon. But she needs a doctor to sit down with her and go over her entire history and do a physical before she gets labelled with a diagnosis. Her words about "mood stabilizers" and "suicidal" make me believe that talking to a psychiatrist would be the best thing in the world for her to do. And, if things work out, maybe her family doctor can take over the case later.
I agree that many, many times the family doctor can handle the case. Twenty percent of Americans will get a major depressive episode in their lifetime. There are not enough psychiatrists to see all those people. There are certain patients I do not treat. They are simply too sick and need a specialist who knows the meds and the side effects etc inside and out. That's basically what psychiatrists are. Experts. Not quacks.
Index...please keep working at reaching them. I don't know why they aren't calling or keeping their word. But don't give up. I think you need their advise badly right now.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Theca, think what you have just done. You have told Index the only thing she can do is to see a doctor who will not call her back. She's been trying to reach this doctor for weeks now. The doctor will not call back.
I know you are a doctor. But I am a patient. Let me say it again. Index is in danger and the only psychiatric doctor available to her will not call her back.
It matters nothing how much someone knows if they won't call you back.
It matters nothing how much someone could possibly help if they don't care enough to do so.
When you go under a doctor's care like that you put your very life in their hands. Most of them care absolutely nothing about you or your wellbeing. This one has already shown that he or she does not care whether Index lives or dies.
I think Index and her family would do far better to take things into their own hands than to trust this doctor who so obviously does not care.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Seriously, I don't think doctors realize how bad health care has gotten in the United States. They think the system is working. It's not.
Doctors' offices have to function flawlessly for their system to provide proper care. But they are far from flawless.
Tests are ordered and the results are never even glanced at unless the patient calls and asks. Then for the doctor to remember it the patient has to bring it up again at the next appointment. Doctors give 2-4 minutes per patient. They glance at the chart then go in. They jump from case to case all day long. There is no way that anyone can apply their intelligence to a difficult problem and come up with the correct answer with two minutes of attention. Not unless the problem is an easy one, a no brainer.
They don't listen to what you tell them for more than 20 seconds before they interrupt and start talking to you. Studies show that if they will listen for 45 seconds instead, they can make a much better diagnosis.
I'm very lucky in that I have found a really great primary care doctor, and a fantastic endocrinologist. But my recent experience with my dad's cancer taught me that putting yourself into an ordinary doctor's hands and trusting them to take good care of you is nothing short of suicide. You have to follow everything yourself. Remember every test that was ordered, and what it was supposed to show. Ask about it. Otherwise they simply never ever glance at the results or think about what they mean.
Question your treatment. What is the rationale behind this procedure? What do we hope to accomplish? What are the chances that it will be successful? If you don't do these things yourself they don't get done.
Thirty percent of the people who go to the hospital experience some mistake in the system which causes them physical harm. Thirty percent. One third. Think about that.
It's not doctors' fault really. It's the system they've set up. They need to take a hard look and simply refuse to treat people under these circumstances.
As an engineer I'm also faced with pressures of the marketplace and customers that want me to put my professional approval on things that are slipshod and half done. As professionals it's our responsibility to refuse to do that. I hope doctors wake up and realize how far things have slipped in their profession over the past decades. I hope they start to exercise their professional responsibility to make it better.
[ May 19, 2003, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: ak ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I'm glad you think that my profession knows nothing, anne kate. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
Since I know nothing, how 'bout I just delete everything I've said?
For that matter, why not just forget anything I say that could have some value, since my profession and I know nothing.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Mac, I'm sorry I think that. I think that you personally care a lot and are doing your very best to help your patients. But my experience of the people who do what you do is 100% negative for me and for my family members. In all cases they have made things worse and not helped. I would not go to one under any circumstances.
Since Todd has helped you so much I do see that it may be possible that some small percentage may actually help people. You must be in that group. However, the person Index is trying to contact is obviously not.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I ask you both to think about Index above anything else. About what is best for her, given her current actual situation.
[ May 19, 2003, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: ak ]
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
Sure, there are good doctors and bad doctors. There are extremes in medicine, just like in everything else. And the best patient is the informed, questioning kind that stays involved in decision making.
In medschool they taught me to listen for up to 2 minutes before interrupting with questions. They taught me to ask open ended questions and wait for the answers. So that part IS changing. And I look at every lab. And every patient gets a call about what that lab value meant. Most of the doctors I have worked with do most of these things too.
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
I wish I KNEW what the best thing for Index is right now.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Theca, you look at every lab result that makes it back into the patient's chart. I hope your office is one of the good ones that actually carry through with that. You don't realize how many results don't make it back, though. Unless you have bossy and rude patients like me who remember to ask. Probably half the tests ordered for my dad during his illness and for me as well, didn't make it back to the doctor's eyes until I asked what were the results and we tracked down the answer and oh yes, this wasn't put in the chart yet for whatever reason.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Is it even possible, Anne Kate, that your personal experiences are disproportionately impacting your judgement?
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Be good to yourself, Indexcard:) You deserve better than what your worst emotions and instincts make you think you do.
Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
IndexCard, I hope you'll keep this in mind despite all flaws in systems:
Most people who choose a profession in health care do this out of LOVE. Their desire to help other people sometimes goes literally as far as risking their lifes for their patients. Think about the personnel caring for SARS patients in Asia, did you see that on television? Those people are heros. Think about Claudia Therese and Theca and Mackillian who spend a lot of time on this forum, while having a full time job in real life, to advise every Hatrack member when needed. Did you ever read how difficult it is for CT to manage to call and email everybody back in time?
Come on. Call them yourself. You need help and you need it now, so say so, don't sit and wait.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I'm happy to hear you have faith in me, anne kate. While there may be plenty of screw ups in my field, I do say that those I work with currently at my agency are damn good clinicians, the lot of them. Todd actually brings his stepkid to my agency.
I don't know. I think it's horrible to judge an entire set of people by what some have done. But then again, I know nothing, so what does it matter what I think?
And yes, I realize I'm being petulant. It happens.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Pthbthbthbthbthbth.
<laughs>
See? They're all so petulant like that! Sheesh!
<<<<hugs mac>>>>
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Ha, ha! Laugh it off, Jamie. You're just being too sensitive. I mean, calling your chosen profession a pack of foolish indifference, well is that unreasonable?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
God forbid.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
*bumped because I just now read through and felt like I needed to say something*
Anne Kate, I saw the hug thread earlier and I hope that you are getting some help somehow. It sounds like you are having a tough time.
IndexCard: My heart goes out to you. Feel free to email me if you want someone to talk to , though it seems like some very competent and caring hatrackers have already offered you some advice.
Yeah, competent hatrackers like mack and Theca. I hate to say this, but the comments about the counselling and psychiatric professions were way off base, ak. I have a psychiatrist and a counselor that have helped me tremendously. My primary care doctor gave me an SSRI and I took the drug for 10 months and got steadily worse. ONly after starting therapy with an MSW,LCSW (the same certification mack is pursuing) did I begin to improve. Drugs alone did not help.
Drugs in combination with good therapy has made the difference. Once we determined that I was improving, but there were still some worriesome symptoms, we brought the psychiatrist on board, becuase my primary care physician said he would feel better if I were under the care of someone that deals with those drugs in their specialty. I'm now in a better place than I have been in years, and none of it is due to drugs alone - but with the combination of therapy and drugs prescribed under the watchful eye of a good psychiatrist.
When I'm going through a tough time, just the knowledge that my therapist is available for me calms me. I know that I can turn to her anytime I need it, and she is nothing less than a godsend. I would not have that assurance from simply a pill. And a pill can't offer me advice on coping with difficult days, a pill can't suggest ways of dealing with stress and anger so it doesn't spill over to my kids. Just about every aspect of my life has been improved through working with my therapist. Without her, I never would have found the courage to apply to college again. A pill couldn't give me that.
The place to start is often your family physician. But if things progress to the point where that's not enough - then by all means you should seek help from professionals.
mack has every right to be angry about what was said. For the sake my of my own therapist, I'm miffed as well. That sweeping generalization disparaging these professions was uncalled for.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Petulance is brought out when people are shocked by an affront.
I would think that having a person whom you know to be competent in a profession that, though on the whole you find incompetent, would lead you to think that the entire profession is useless. I suppose I think wrong in the Book According to Anne Kate.
I do have Index Card's interest in mind. We've talked. We continue to talk. I continue to advise her and Emp on how to obtain the professional help that she needs. I can't advise her otherwise because that would be unethical. What if something happened? I mean, I can be completely honest and explain that sure, there are hacks in every profession. I can tell her what to look for in a good psychiatric evaluation, in a good clinician, in a good psychiatrist. I can explain how to get hooked up with services in her area. I can contact authorities if I think she's gotten into too hairy of a situation.
Studies show that the combination of pharmacotherapy and talk therapy leads to the best results when dealing with mental illlness. There is a lot to be had in congitive/behavioral therapy, with symptom management, illness acceptance, crisis avoidance, crisis stabilization. There's a lot to be said and is documented for the real, human connections that are made in good therapeutic relationships.
I want to help Index and I do what I can. Don't want to have the LBJ complex, right? (Little baby jesus, trying to save everyone). I know I don't know everything, but I do know that it's impossible for me not to know ANYthing. That isn't realistic. That's black and white thinking and a symptom of depression. A few therapists or doctors or bad, so they ALL must be bad. No room for gray, just black and white. That could help Index, but not in the way you intended. As an illustration of illness, rather than sound advice.
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
I decided that I won't give up. I called Ruth again- that's the lady from my evaluation- and she was in a group therapy session so she is going to call me back, hopefully. I will call again if she doesn't, though. I am going to get the number of the psychiatrist again and find out why they haven't called. I need an appointment and I need it now, or soon, and I won't give up until I have one. Oh but I'm scared.... it took me forever to pick up that phone and call her again. But I did it.
I'm proud of myself, even if no one else will be. Who cares. I can believe in myself even if no one else believes in me.
[ May 21, 2003, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Index, even the most loathesome of creatures has something to be proud of. You are above such a creature by many, many orders of magnitude, I suspect, and others who know you better know. As this thread has evidenced, there are people outside of yourself who believe in you. Instincts that tell you otherwise are lying to you. I think with time you'll learn to recognize those instincts-I did.
Speaking for myself, hopelessness and paralysis as far as doing anything is concerned was a major part of depression. Unfortunately it would seem you have problems that run deeper than mine did, and do, and I'm sorry for that. But I suspect that one way in which my experience can relate to yours is that I can tell you from it that taking that first step, doing the first thing, is a very powerful action. It takes a great deal more willpower to take that first step, and it yields bigger results, too: everything becomes just a little bit less daunting, because you're doing something about it. Dialing seven digits on a telephone is sometimes very easy, but sometimes very hard-I am happy to hear that even when it was very hard, you were up to the challenge. Don't berate yourself because it was so hard and you almost didn't do it. You did, which is what matters.
Things may not improve in the short-term when you act, but they will inevitably improve in the long-run when you overcome that sort of fear and doubt.
[ May 21, 2003, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: Rakeesh ]
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
((((Rakeesh)))) Thank you.
And thanks to everyone else, too. (((Hatrack)))
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
((IndexCard)) Hatrack is proud of you.
Just keep on believing in yourself.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
(((Shan)))
Love ya, always.
Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
Wow IndexCard! You have my admiration.
(((IndexCard)))
Posted by amira tharani (Member # 182) on :
So proud of you for keeping at it, Index - and yeah, you darn well SHOULD be proud of yourself, too! You go, girl!
*Hugs Index*
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
((((IndexCard))))
We ARE behind you. And you definitely have something to be proud of. Keep us posted, okay? I think about you every day, I so hope they can help and you feel better soon. As is, you have my respect. I know how hard it is to make the steps you have, so I'm proud of you too.
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Thanks guys. It gets harder every single time they do not call back.
Posted by Zotto! (Member # 4689) on :
I don't know how I ever missed reading this thread, but I just did now. I feel the same way as a lot of you.
*huggs everyone on Hatrack*
I love you guys. I love this place. Everyone is so kind and supportive of everyone else.
(((Index))) (((Everyone)))
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
IndexCard, this has gotten ludicrous.
Email me your name, your psychiatrist's name, and the clinic number, and I'll happily talk to them and try to straighten it out. As a physician, I can get in through back doors, and I can make sure you get called.
My promise -- just send me the info.
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
All of it is sent... Thank you SO much, CT. I truly appreciate it. (((((CT)))))
And thank you to everyone else too. (((Hatrack)))
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Got it. I'll try to get through within the next hour (I want to reread your posts here first, so I know what to say).
Thanks, IndexCard. I didn't want to butt in, but this thread has just been killing me. It's senseless.
[ May 23, 2003, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*pat pat* S'okay Index.
*wedgie*
*runs off*
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
(((((CT)))))
It's okay for butting in. I think the thing I really needed was for someone to butt in. I don't think these people are taking me seriously at all. So thanks again CT, a TON, and... OWWWWWWWWW! *runs after Mack*
*flying tackle hugs Mack*
((((((((((Mack))))))))))
[ May 23, 2003, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Sending you another email, IC.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*melvin*
That'll learn ya. Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
CT, where's MINE?
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
(((IC)))
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Hey, mac, I assume you keep yours just where everyone else does.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
CT is one of the most awesome Hatrackers on the planet!
AJ
Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
You're awesome CT!
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Thanks a ton, again, CT. I really appreciate it. Maybe after just knowing you know what is going on (without them telling you it is) then they will call me back... Or maybe not. But I still really appreciate it. (((((CT))))))
(((((Mack)))))
(((Hatrack)))
edit: I just called again, and I was informed by Ruth- I spoke to her, the psychologist from my evaluation- that she called my mom about an hour and a half ago to let her know what was going on. There was a delay eith the minor medi-cal so that is still going through and she said that if by the middle of next week the psychiatrist has not called (She said she called them and confirmed that they have openings for me) then we should call her and let her know, and she will have them call us right away. Thank you CT. What you did may not have seemed like much, but it got through to them, and it really worked. I am so relieved... thank you so, so much!!!!!
((((((((((CT))))))))))
[ May 23, 2003, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I'm so glad you have some progress, IC.
mack, why aren't you on AIM?
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
I was tired at 11. Now it is 2:40 a.m. and I am still not alseep, or even sleepy for that matter. I hope this doesn't last again. I've begun documenting my moods and such so I can talk about it as frankly as possible with the psychiatrist when I get one.
[ May 25, 2003, 05:27 AM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Mmmmm. My two favorite poems are Blake's "Auguries of Innocence" and Shakespeare's "The Pheonix And The Turtle." Blake's is better though.
*whistling...*
Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
Here's a Dutch sleeping poem for you:
Slaap kindje slaap Daar buiten loopt een schaap Een schaap met witte voetjes Die drinkt zijn melk zo zoetjes Slaap kindje slaap Daar buiten loopt een schaap
It's about a sheep. Did your parents also tell you when you were little, that you should count sheep when you couldn't sleep? Or is counting sheep to get to sleep a typical Dutch (or maybe European) habit?
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Well, I count sheep. I count cats. I count crickets, and how many different discernable bird "voices" are singing outside my window. I count how many times the hawk cries, and I count how many times the rooster crows and at what time. I count the uneven number of "tick-tock"'s that it takes for my clock to go from 12 back to 12 again. I could count the hairs on my cat's tail... but I don't think that any of tat helped. I like the song though, I think the words are pretty. Thank you. =)
I got all of the words except kindje and zoetjes. Kind is "child," right? So what is kindje? And I think zoet is "sweet" or something... what is zoetjes?
[ May 25, 2003, 06:31 AM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
'Kindje' is a little child. The 'je' at the end of any word is to make it small. So a 'schaapje' would be a small sheep.
Yes, right, zoet is sweet. And zoetjes means nice and sweet and obedient and good all in one.
Edited to add: You also got 'buiten'?? How did you figure that one out?
[ May 25, 2003, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: ginette ]
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Well, most of the words, like kind, zoet, slaap, schaap, loopt, een, witte... haha, okay so about every word except buiten, voetjes and zijn, those I had to look up on an online translator. Hehe.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Are you still up tonight, too, Index?
Posted by amira tharani (Member # 182) on :
Aka, why aren't you on aim?
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
I was up all night two nights ago but I wasn't tired after I stayed up all night. ~_^ ... and last night I slept more than usual. I keep feeling like there are bugs on me every now and then but there aren't. It's grossing me out.
[ May 27, 2003, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
<nods> I stayed up all last night but slept today. I've never had the bugs thing happen. I wonder if it's a symptom of no sleep. I've seen visual bugs that weren't there when I go long enough without sleeping, but never felt them. That doesn't sound pleasant. Anyone know what this is?
Right now I'm feeling bugs but it's because I'm covered in bug bites from the mill in the Georgia coastal swamps at which I was working all week.
Good luck with the doctor. My experience with people in all professions who won't call you back is that even when you finally do get hold of them, they don't work out. If they didn't want to talk to you to begin with, then it's very likely they won't want to help you very much either. That seems to hold true for everyone from furniture upholsterers to roof repairmen to priests. I do hope you have better luck.
But if not, please don't wait forever. See any doctor at all rather than continue to suffer unhelped.
<<<<<<<Index>>>>>>>
I'm so sorry for what you are going through.
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Well, I just got an appointment. Tomorrow night at 5 pm. And then every Wednesday at 5 pm after that. Kind of scared, but kind of relieved.
Okay. So a LOT scared.
[ May 27, 2003, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
I won't be able to sleep tonight. Those of you who pray, if it is not too much too ask, pray for me that it goes well tomorrow, because I am sick of this but these people are the only ones who accept the medi-cal (in my area.) Everyone else... would you cross your fingers for me? Thanks, guys.....
((((HATRACK))))
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
(((((Index)))))
I'm praying
Posted by Ethics Gradient (Member # 878) on :
quote:CT is one of the most awesome Hatrackers on the planet!
You mean "people on the planet!", right?
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
<prayers for Index>
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Oh, I'm so glad you have an appt.
Please try not to be too apprehensive. Walking into a therapists' office is a tough thing to do, it takes courage. But you have courage, you've already shown that.
As for sleep, I do empathize, I've had my bouts of insomnia before.
Just hang in there, and I'll pray this appt. is the beginning of you getting to a place where you feel better.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*looks at clock*
Yeah. Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
Posted by amira tharani (Member # 182) on :
Glad you got an appointment, Index. Hope it goes well.
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Thanks, everyone. ((((Hatrack)))) *holds breath until 5 pm*
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
youll be fine index, remember, they cant eat you cause I already did.
I'll record your song this afternoon and send it to ya whenever i see you online next, i may not be home tonight to send it, so tomorrow at least,
(((((index))))) good luck!
--apostle
Posted by JaneX (Member # 2026) on :
((((Index))))
Posted by xnera (Member # 187) on :
Hope it all went okay tonight!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
::Seconds xnera's hope::
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
It went fine. All of it was just paperwork. I was praying like crazy the entire time in the waiting room that she would be nice and stuff, and she really is. She is still a student. I think she said she has her masters and is going for her doctorate, but she isn't licensed yet and still has a supervisor. But she is nice, and pretty, and funny, and she is not intimidating, which is the best part. I think it is okay that she still has a supervisor, because she is nice and everything I was praying that my therapist would be. Only one thing against her (but one major thing) is that she is not Mack.
Oh, and during the session, she kept asking me things from a little gray book. I think she thinks I am either bipolar or have panic disorder, because those were the two she was asking me symptoms from. I bet she'll think there is even more wrong with me in a few weeks. Heh.
She wanted my mom in there with me for this paperwork session, so I said okay, but it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. It was kind of better that way. My mom helped ease the tension by telling jokes and providing answers to the questions I did not know how to answer. And when we were all done, my mom gave me a big hug and said she loved me, and I felt like crying because that was exactly what I needed at that moment. I'm still shaken and stressed from the appointment, and the real appointment starts next week. I think it might be okay though. Alexandra looks like she might be barely older than my best friend, who is 24. She's really nice. Even my mom likes her.
Gosh am I tired.
[ May 29, 2003, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by Ophelia (Member # 653) on :
I'm really glad it went well. Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
I am happy she is nice! That's the most important thing I guess.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
nudge her to look at the adolescent symptoms of PTSD. I wouldn't like you to get tagged with the wrong diagnosis. Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Ok, post fast is over with, time to jump back into Hatrack.
Index, I'm glad that you like her and I hope things work out. Paperwork? Bah, I hate paper work and you can quote me on that.
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
How will she be able to tell if it is adolescent PTSD or bipolar disorder? Or both? If she is just starting out at this, not yet lisenced, and already thinks I am bipolar and have panic disorder, and since the symptoms overlap completely, how will she be able to tell which one it is, if it is either?
Jamie?
Anyone?
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
IC, the very very best person of all to discuss these questions with is her. Not that it isn't okay to ask other people for ideas and opinions too, but for the best chance to have things work out effectively, you really have to ask her these questions.
quote:I noticed that you were asking questions from the bipolar and panic attack lists. How would you tell the difference between the two?
I'm worried about getting the wrong diagnosis -- could you explain to me how you go about making a diagnosis?
I was speaking to a friend of mine and she mentioned PTSD. Can we make sure to talk about this too?
and yes, even
How much experience have you had? Could you tell me about your training and treatment philosophy?
(from my perspective) Diagnoses may generally overlap, but there are specific criteria to be met which generally exclude other disorders. More than one thing could be going on at the same time, but the real focus of therapy should be on taking care of the symptoms, and all diagnoses should be provisional anyway. Things can change. The important thing is to get you functioning effectively and without more than the usual sort of human unhappiness, regardless of the label.
And it is professional to consider a variety of related diagnoses. Asking the questions is as much about ruling diagnoses out as about ruling them in.
IndexCard, listen: You have to be frank for therapy to work effectively. That means ask around for help, but bring up questions, concerns, doubts, and criticisms with the therapist herself. If she was well-trained, she knows how to handle it. (If she wasn't, then you need to know that anyway. )
There's a lot of danger in playing around with drama or with playing people off against each other. (Not that you are, mind, but just a warning of potential future pitfalls!) It can be tempting to sabotage therapy by complaining to other people that it isn't working (friends, other therapists, etc), but then never address it directly with the source of the problem.
->The first part of that is okay, the second part is just shooting yourself in the foot!<-
Your life is too important to play games. You are also too smart and savvy to practice unhealthy personality traits that way, too. So muster up all the good advice you can, marshall up all the resources you have here at Hatrack and everywhere else, think it through --
and then bring it up with her. That's where the real work gets done. Again, if the real work isn't going to get done there, then you need to know that anyway.
Good luck! I'm very happy for you, but most of all, you have my respect. This has been very hard, and you rose to the challenge awesomely.
[ June 01, 2003, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
What CT said. There are also charts to help make a differential diagnosis as well.
And I told you to bring it up with the therapist a couple days ago, I recall. Proper diagnosis takes a little while. At my work, we're constantly revising them every few months to make sure we have the right one, and we also do rule outs, as CT explained.
Often, we'll write down the primary diagnosis that we're thinking for insurance purposes (to make sure you're covered) and write down whatever disorders we want to rule out, ones we'll look at closely and examine symptoms.
Me, for instance. Last fall I had a diagnosis of Major Depressive Disorder and PTSD. However, there was suspicion that I had Bipolar Disorder and Generalized Anxiety Disorder.
So: Axis I: Major Depressive Disorder PTSD Bipolar Disorder R/O Generalized Anxiety Disorder R/O
After a couple of months, things got shifted around as symptoms surfaced and were tracked. Axis I: Bipolar II Disorder, Rapid Cycling, Last Episode Mixed PTSD Generalized Anxiety Disorder
And no more major depressive disorder. The first line treatment for MDD (antidepressants)makes bipolar worse (from depressed to manic with no in-between).
Anyway.
I can answer questions and explain stuff to you, but you do need to work with your therapist and be honest with her about what you're thinking and feeling, any questions you might have about her and the work you two will be doing.
[ June 01, 2003, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: mackillian ]
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Yeah. What mac said.
(Who herself is also Totally Awesome, by the way. Hatrack seems to select out some of the neatest women on the planet. Guys too.)
Posted by JaneX (Member # 2026) on :
Yay, Index! I'm glad your appointment went well. *hugs*
~Jane~
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
CT, Mack, thank you both for your help. I really, REALLY appreciate it. I am almost happy about my first real session on Wednesday but still very nervous.
I wrote a poem about my ex boyfriend. I have been thinking a lot about him again, and I thought it might help me feel better to write it out. I was wrong, but here is the poem. Let me know what you think.
quote: There was never a fear so deep, never a pain so pure, there was never a light so dim, and you never seemed so sure
It's only been a week, you said you loved me since the day we met, you never really did. But it's taken a decade, how deep did your heart break for me to forget, when you meant what you said...
That you'd put me above everything, that you'd value me the most, but I'm in California, and you're on another coast
My tears were only water, my emotions only youth. You told me that you loved me but you never told the truth.
It's only been a week, you said you loved me since the day we met, you never really did. But it's taken a decade, how deep did your heart break for me to forget, when you meant what you said...
I thought that I'd be scarred for life, and maybe I still will, but my heart is mending- I don't want you back, there's no longer a hole to fill.
It's only been a week, you said you loved me since the day we met, you never really did. But it's taken a decade, how deep did your heart break for me to forget, when you meant what you said...
It only took a week, you said you loved me, since the day we met, you never really did. But it's been a decade, I know your heart wont break when I admit, that I meant what I said.
So, that's it. If anyone has comments or suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them. Okay, well, that's all for now. (((HATRACK)))
[ June 02, 2003, 03:13 AM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
Hi Index, I hope you don't mind my comment.
Maybe I am completely wrong, but it seems to me that the feelings you express are, for the biggest part of the poem, his supposed feelings. Except for the intro. I think the poem would be much better if you'd go on like the first 4 sentences and keep the focus on you and your feelings. But I have never been good at understanding poems. It's just that yours starts so well and then suddenly I stop feeling anything when I read further and I thought this was caused by you stopping to write about your feelings and bringing the focus on him.
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Well, parts of it are his supposed feelings, like you said, but most of it is how he made me feel.
The first and second verses
quote:There was never a fear so deep, never a pain so pure, there was never a light so dim, and you never seemed so sure
That you'd put me above everything, that you'd value me the most, but I'm in California, and you're on another coast
are how he made me feel about the relationship- he kept saying that he cared for me and all of that good stuff, but his actions made me think that his words were false.
The chorus
quote:It's only been a week, you said you loved me since the day we met, you never really did. But it's taken a decade, how deep did your heart break for me to forget, when you meant what you said...
are my very own convictions. That is me saying that, even though he said that he loved me- that he meant it when he said it all those times- I don't think he did. I am saying that it has taken a decade (figuritively) for me to forget him, and I feel like it broke his heart so much to realize that he did love me, and that is why he left me... or something.
The next verse
quote: My tears were only water, my emotions only youth. You told me that you loved me but you never told the truth.
is me saying that he broke down my self esteem so much that he made me feel like an idiot if I'd cry about anything, and that I was too young to know what my emotions really meant. In retrospect, I don't think he ever really loved me if he would treat me that way.
The last verse
quote: I thought that I'd be scarred for life, and maybe I still will, but my heart is mending- I don't want you back, there's no longer a hole to fill.
is basically self explanatory. I thought I would never get over him, and maybe I will always think of him at times, but I have Emp now =) and Emp's love is what filled the hole that Elliot bore into my heart.
Ginette, thank you for your suggestions. Thinking about and writing out that explanation was more theraputic than writing the actual poem. =)
Hope everyone is having a good day/week so far. =)
[ June 02, 2003, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
Yay, I am. Having a good week. The weather is lovely, today I had the first ripe strawberry from the garden. Our pup learned to swim in the river just a couple of days ago. He loves it. And I got a galery interested in my husband's art, they took two of his pieces to sell .
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
That's great ginette! I take it that things are going better at home?
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Okay, so, today will be my first real session. I did not think I was so nervous but maybe I am because I have been throwing up all morning. There is nothing left inside of me but I still feel like I am going to throw up. Oh God, wish me luck, keep me in your prayers, and hope I do not die before I make it to my first session... Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Oh, sweetheart, big hugs! Walking into a therapist's office for the first time took a lot of courage from me, I was terrified.
Now, I look forward to sessions, and am so so very glad I made the decision to go in there!
You'll be fine, promise. Just go on in, be frank like mack and CT said, and things will work out.
Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
Noemon, thanks. Yes, things are going better now, though I have some trouble keeping the fear at bay, but I manage .
I am praying for you, Index. I am sorry you feel so sick. Doesn't have to be nerves, maybe you ate something bad? I sure hope it doesn't spoil your first appointment.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
So, Index, how'd it go? Well, I hope.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Glad to hear in ginette!
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Fine. It went fine. Thanks.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Index, how are the appointments going? Any updates for us?
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
I am skipping my second appointment because it is Emp's and my brother's graduation that day... But the first appointment last week went fine. We mostly talked about horses-- she asked me questions and I told her all I could to answer her infinite questions about my favorite sport. =)
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Okay, I have another question, so I am bringing back the ol' Unloveable Hand thread. How will I know when my therapist makes a definite diagnosis? Today, in my appointment, we were talking and she said "Yeah, okay then I think it most definitely is PTSD." I figure that is what it must be... but her main objective that she put for me on the objective sheet (that we have to give to the people providing the minor medi-cal) was to stabilize my moods by October 28 using mood stabilizers. She hasn't done that yet, I think she just put in a referral to the actual psychiatrist... I don't know much about that either... but I mainly want to know, do I have to wait to talk to the psychiatrist before she can make a definite diagnosis, or when and how will I know? Please, anyone who can help me with this, I'd really appreciate it.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Most likely, they'll make the definitive diagnosis together. I bet you she's got a working diagnosis right now and is waiting for the consult with the psychiatrist.
That's how it works in my office, anyhow. Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Thanks, Mack. =) I kind of was thinking that was what she'd do, but I know nothing about these things, so I didn't want to make any assumptions. So thank you =)
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Things are not good right now. Not at all. My best friend Danny is out from Arrowhead and Danny, Emp and I have been having fun... We all went to a ska show at KFC. My brother's band was playing with some other really well known ska bands and we were all sitting a little ways away listening to the music and out of nowhere, flashbacks. Horrible, awful flashbacks that would not leave my head. I was shaking and crying and my friends looked so scared. I felt like I was in the moment and it was happening for the first time, and that I did not know what would happen next and then I saw it and it was awful, and all of the sudden, I was back in the KFC parking lot. I was so hot inside and I was scared as hell and I was freezing cold, all at the same time. It felt like the fear and pain inside my heart was clawing its way out and that it would kill me, and if it didn not kill me surely the lack of oxygen around me would, and if not that, than the freezing cold night air when my body was so, so hot... And then it was gone, and I felt this emptiness, this abandoned and completely alone feeling that left me with nothing but pain. But the worst part, out of all of that, is the guilt that I feel for having disturbed my friends and the few people that were around me watching as my body shook convulsively, the few people around that watched my friends standing next to me, afraid to even touch me. And now I am depressed, for night time has officially set in and I fear what dreams may come should I finally fall asleep.
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
'S okay, Index. Sometimes your body has to work things out, too. And the dreams will help you, too. Even if they are fearful, remember, it is your psyche's way of dealing with pain. Your friends were there for you - you should never feel guilt for that. When you are well, perhaps you can be strong for someone else when he or she goes through this kind of experience. We're here, you're safe - there is a web of love around you and even when you are empty, we are holding the end of your lifeline. Keep journaling and reaching out. You'll get through.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Do you have a number where you can reach your therapist?
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Thanks, Jenny. I know that my friends are here for me, and I cannot help feeling guilty because of that. Heh. I can't see Alexandra until Wednesday. I wish I could, because this is too much for me. Or it seems like it is. I have to stick it out and get through it though. God, I hope beyond hope that I will be able to get over this.
[ June 21, 2003, 10:20 PM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Things are so scary right now. I can't handle it. I thought long and hard tonight about taking the last of my pills, but luckily my friend Danny decided to stay another night at my house and he just started talking to me and telling me stories and making me laugh. I'm so depressed. I can't wait till Wednesday. I've been haunted by memories- some old and recurrent and some new, things that I had blocked out, or things that I never found scary before. But the memories plague my mind constantly now. I had the worst migrane of my life tonight. It got so bad that all I could do was lay there. I could barely open my eyes. It's gone now-- what, 4 hours later. I just laid there, every now and then being shaken violently by a flashback, and then shaken back to reality by Danny's worried voice. He kept talking to me and telling me stories as he sat there on the edge of my bed, just like a best friend should, and finally worked me out of my headache and out of the flashbacks. I took my migrane medicine five hours ago. The good thing about it is that it gets rid of the migrane completely. The bad thing is that it seems, lately, not to kick in for at least an hour and a half. It's called Axert. I'm so depressed. But more numb, not sad. Okay, that's not true. I'm plenty sad.
Depression n. 1. An area that is sunk below its surroundings; a hollow. 2. Also see Shanna Franklin Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Index, is it Wednesday for your next appointment?
Call your therapist and ask if you can come in today, as an emergency, if not then at least talk to her by phone.
I resisted calling my therapist, because I figured it would do much good to talk to her on the phone anyway. But one day, when all Hades broke loose over the situation I'm currently dealing with - I did call her and I'm so very glad I did.
She was able to talk me through some things, and by the time we finished on the phone I had a coping strategy that worked.
I will tell you that when I've had to call either for medical or therapeutical reasons - No doctor or professional has ever suggested I didn't need to call. It was always the right thing to do. If you need to talk to your therapist - CALL NOW
Your therapist will not want to have you in such pain and in such a state. She would much rather you call her, I promise. Ask Mack - one day when mack was talking to me she told me to call, when I protested she said if I were her client, she would want to talk to me.
((((Index)))) Oh sweetie, I wish I could help more. But your therapist can help you - so please call her.
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
((Index))
I'm praying for ya. I hope you will be allright. Talk to me soon. I'll be worried about you as usual.
--Apostle
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Belle is absolutely right. Call your therapist ASAP.
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
I tried. I can't remember her phone number and I don't have a business card, nor do I know exactly what the place is called. I sure am on top of things these days.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
IndexCard, this is important to follow through on. Please ask your mother for help in figuring out the number.
Sugar, I'm glad you have the energy to speak so eloquently here at Hatrack about your problems, but I'm afraid that you may exhaust your stores by doing so. Writing can be therapeutic, sharing stories can bring insight, but I really do worry that you may put so much time and energy into explaining yourself here that the real (read: "potentially life-saving") hard tasks will be pushed to the side. That scares me. Your focus has to be on keeping yourself safe, first and foremost.
You know you have a lot of people to call on for support here. Many of us do this, and it's a great relief. But we'd be remiss (and we'd be pretty poor friends) if we didn't strongly encourage you to primarily spend what concentration and focus you have -- when it is so severely limited -- with the trained professional who knows the most about you and what to do next.
Talk with us, but focus on your therapist. While you're so drained and overwhelmed, that has to be a priority.
You are much, much too important to us for it to be otherwise.
*warm hug
[ June 23, 2003, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Well, still no luck on getting the number. I have to remember tomorrow to get a business card from Alexandra. I've been confused lately, even with my emotions, I'm sad but I'm so happy... I don't think I have ever been so ambivalent in my life. I can't wait to see Alexandra tomorrow... that is something I never, EVER thought I'd be admitting-- to myself or to anyone else. It scares me. It makes me feel happy. It makes me want to break down and cry. It makes me want to pat myself on the back. I don't know which to do so I just don't do anything at all. And I hate it. I remember things lately that I haven't remembered for months or even years, and it hit me hard and made me dizzy and I don't know where to throw all of these new memories, let alone the emotions that came with them.
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
I had an appointment tonight. It went well. I told her that the flashbacks have been more frequent and more violent, and I explained. She said I definitely have PTSD. She wants to do a guided imagery with me, and I think that's cool. I've always thought it was cool, I never thought I'd be the one sitting in the chair though, instead of watching it in movies and whatnot. I feel a lot better about the decisions that I have made lately after having talked to her. I know that a lot of people have been stunned and saddened or angered by the choices that I have made with my life lately, but after talking to her I realized and felt comfortable with the fact that I don't need to justify my choices to anyone else. I feel that I have done the right thing, and that is what matters. For now, I need to look out for myself. For once. It's important now. I should have done this a long time ago-- gone to therpay, gotten past my problems-- but because I didn't, it got worse and I had to make a lot of people sad. And I am racked with, absolutely FILLED with guilt... But anyway, it went well. For those of you who care. And as I was walking out, her last words to me were these: "If you need to talk about anything, even if it is just to talk because you are lonely, you can always call. I'd love for you to call." I know you guys said that it would be okay but I still didn't really believe it until she said it without me asking her. And now I actually have the number, that helps. Hah, but just my luck, they won't have an office anymore, so she has to call me for a phone session each week until they can move into their new office and get the SOC's approved for that office. Oh well. I think from here I can deal until Wednesday.
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
((index))
Thats awesome girl. I'm glad you feel better.
and youll always be my gal, regardless of whether that means anything or not Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
IndexCard, I'm sooo glad that you had a good session and were able to open up about what was happening. Sometimes you may need to talk (and you may be worried that other people don't want to listen -- BTW, that is not true here at Hatrack ), and sometimes you may be unable to talk. I think you have a pretty bouncy course ahead of you. But you're smart and strong, and you make excellent friends. Use those resources!
I don't think anyone can talk away the guilt, but try to remember that that can be "the depression talking," as Anne Kate says.
One last idea: why don't you send the number for your therapist to your own email account, so that you always have an online record of it? Or even better, also send it in an email to a couple of friends. It sounds life is pretty overwhelming right now, and it's good to build some redundancies into the system.
((((IC))))
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Guess what everyone? I got a job! I woke up to the phone ringing at 8 this morning and it was Gale from Subway calling about a job application that I turned in almost two months ago (or maybe more like a month). She started asking me all these questions, what job I want to work, (I said anything they have open), what I am doing this weekend, (nothing at all...) if I could get a work permit (since I am not 17 yet) and go over there right away... I went there and they already had the work schedule with my name on it. I work from 5 to 7 tonight, am off tomorrow night, work 4 to 8 Thursday, Friday off, and work 4-8ish Saturday and Sunday. I'm so excited. Minimum wage, but it's better than my oldest brother got when he started working at Togo's, which was his first job. Hehe. Just thought I'd share my excitment with you all. =)
[ July 01, 2003, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by Anti-Chris (Member # 4452) on :
Mmmmm.... foot long meat ball on white...
Congrats, Shan! So, do you think you can mail me any of those extra stamps? Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Hahaha, yeah, sure I can, I'll get you plenty... want me to mail you some sandwiches too? Posted by Ayelar (Member # 183) on :
OH MY GOD I WANT A CHICKEN TERIYAKI SUB NOW!!
I might even drive out and get one.
Congrats, Index!! There's nothing like a new job. Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Shanna?
This is an important occassion. It calls for a weighty reaction. What I am about to do is in keeping with the solemn traditions.
*HIGH FIVE*
Congratulations:)
Posted by prolixshore (Member # 4496) on :
Hmmm, subway is my arch enemy, man i hate that jared guy. And the fireman guy, clay henry, he actually lives down the street from here, man those guys bug me.
But, since youre my girl and all
i suppose ill say congratulations and shake your hand. Ahh what the heck, I'll even hug ya.
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Thanks, you guys!!!! I really appreciate your support. Tonight is my second night. Hehe! I can't wait. Thanks again, everyone.
(((Hatrack)))
Posted by dannyXcore (Member # 5332) on :
Index, Hope all is going well... I know your comp is dead right now, so you can't be on for some time, but thanks, again, for letting me crash at your house, I had some fun. Thanks to you, too, Emp, for being one of my best friends!
(((IC & Emp)))
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
IndexCard, that is awesome! You are absolutely amazing. Way to go. Very, very impressive.
((((((((((((((((IC)))))))))))))))))
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Hey there everyone. I finally have a computer again, yay!!! My friend Robert came over and fixed it. The first problem was that my boss didn't screw down the video card, and it was all wobbly and loose and falling out. Then we just erased my old OS and reinstalled XP over it- I had Windows 2000 Professional. It was that easy. And my boss, the self acclaimed "Computer genius" thought that the computer was simply done for. Thank goodness for friends like Robert.
The job is going wonderfully. I started out at like 13 hours a week, went up to 16 hours a week, and now, as of Tuesday, I will have 12 hours this week- only till tuesday, when I get my schedule for the rest of the week and get many more hours this week- and it's steadily rising. I love it. The work is never boring- there is alllllways something to do. The people are nice. My boss is intimidating but nice. Funny thing is, she is never there. I have talked to her once since I was hired... and that was for about 30 seconds on the phone when she called for another employee. Hehe. But I love it. Free sandwiches, hip hip! Heh.
For those of you who were not already aware, Emp and I are no longer together. We are still friends, but I am now with a guy named Danny.... dannyXcore here on Hatrack. He has been my best friend for about two years now. He's a wonderful guy.
Trying to sell my horse is very stressful. I have a friend who has been in horses all her life who is willing to help me... if I give her commission. But we won't be making a profit on the horse, and the money will go toward college... so that was depressing.
Other than that, life is going well. I am now fairly familiar with my therapist, she is really nice... She wants to do a guided imagery with me, and that should be coming up fairly soon. I have been depressed at times lately, but seemingly for no reason. We'll get to the bottom of it though, I know we will.
I am driven on, however, by the thought of moving out after high school. I know it is cliche of me to say that I am leaving right after I graduate, but this time it is true. I am. I talked about it with my mom. She is okay with the fact that I will be moving out when I am 17, as long as she knows I will e able to fend for myself, which I will. I will hae at least 12,000 dollars in the bank (and I mean at the very, very least) when I graduate. That's enough to at least start me somewhere. And then I can get another job, probably full time, or something at the college I choose to go to, work during the day and go to school at night. I love the thought of it. It makes me want to survive this hell hole of a town that I currently live in.
So yeah, there's my little update. I've missed you all.
[ July 21, 2003, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
Hi Index! Me too had computer problems. Haven't been here for a couple of weeks.
I am glad to hear you are doing OK!
As you problably know, I also had a PTSS and I too went through a guided imagery with a technique called EMDR. It worked amazingly well. In another thread I heard Shan say EMDR had been a lifesaver for her. I feel the same. So I bet everything will work out fine for you, good luck!
Posted by dannyXcore (Member # 5332) on :
Wow, I totally already knew all of that, hiphip.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
IndexCard, I'm sorry that I used you and your horse in a joke last night on the "good,bad,yo' mama" thread. I just looked for a thread that had about 5 or 6 pages because it fit the joke, then I read that you were selling your horse. I read the rest of the thread this morning. (((IndexCard))) Looks like you have really been through the wringer lately! I'm glad you finally got an appointment and that you're therapist seems cool. Let me agree with CT that you must be open and honest with her so she can help you, particularly in the diagnosis, even though it can painful and difficult. I'll try to e-mail you at mystikal gal @hotmail.com (cool address) with some personal insight Hang in there, kid!
[ July 23, 2003, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: Morbo ]
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
Morbo, it's okay that you used my horse as a joke in that thread, I haven't even seen it yet. But please, by all means, make jokes about it. It is much easier to deal with that way.
Posted by dannyXcore (Member # 5332) on :
[cheering up]
Wanna see some ill patty cake....?
[/cheering up] Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
DannyXcore, I love you so much. Hehehehe..... *Thinking of the quote*
Hey Morbo, I totally didn't even see that thread anywhere. Is it still around?
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Well, everyone, I am leaving for a while. I will talk to you all when I get back... Wish me luck. And those of you who would, please keep me in your prayers because I am really, really scared. But I will be okay (I hope). I will talk to you guys later days. Take care, please.
Goodbye for now.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Bye Shan. Good luck. If you get nervous, just remember that you are carrying a bit of Hatrack where ever you go.
Posted by IndexCard (Member # 4585) on :
I know I haven't really posted much in a while, but I am bringing back my old 'Hand in unloveable hand' thread. Things haven't been going too terribly badly. My boyfriend, Danny, has been living with me for almost a month now, which is awesome- he keeps me company and has been accepted as part of the family. My mom was the one who invited him to stay for a while, and Josh treats him well, as though he were a cool new roommate.
Almost a month ago, I took too many sleeping pills and had to go to the ER. I was in Arrowhead with Danny at the time. Danny saved my life.
Yes, it was on purpose. And yes, Danny literally saved my life. It's a long, touching story if anyone wants to know it. My screenname is sexandmatzo, and you can IM me if you want, and ask about it... I'd be more than happy to *shamelessly* promote my boyfriend's humble bravery.
When I got better, *COUGHthenextdayCOUGH*, they were going to check me into a mental hospital but the lady interviewing me didn't think I needed to be there, after talking to my mom and me for an hour, and just me for an hour. That's why I thought I was going away for a while. But I'm good now. I'm okay. And I'm not touchy on the subject any more. (Okay, so still maybe a little touchy. But hey, things happen.)
I went to see a psychiatrist the other day, separate from my regular therapist's office... so that I wouldn't have to be on a waiting list. She put me on Depakote ER... So far, I've taken 4 doses. Each time, it makes me jumpy and depressed. I'm not sure if there is supposed to be a noticeable difference and how long it will take to kick in... The new lady seems really good at what she does, and she is nice, and I feel comfortable with her.
I'm so in love with Daniel. As I write this, I am watching him sleep, and he looks so peaceful. I hope that for the rest of his life, whether or not I am a part of it, he can feel as peaceful as he looks right now.
Flashbacks have been bad lately. Violent. Danny is there for most of them. He goes to therapy with me every week now. Sandra (Aleksandra) likes him. He tells her things that I can't put to words. He told her that a couple times when I was caught in a flashback, I curled up against the wall and he took my arms o try to turn me over so I wouldn't hurt myself and that I physically fought him off. Kicking, scratching, hitting, the whole bit. I feel terrible about it. Therapy doesn't seem like much at all anymore. We go in, talk to her for 15 minutes about the past week, and she says goodbye, and we leave. My mom is getting peeved at this but there is nothing else much to say. I dunno.
Work is going well. I made my first big paycheck. I worked around 25 hours (give or take) each week the past two weeks and made 309 dollars, hiphip! I was excited. Forgot it at work because I worked 4:30-9, but I don't need it till tomorrow anyway.
Okay, well, I'm going to go make Danny a cake. He turns 18 today. =) So wish him (DannyXcore) a happy birthday, if you will!
Take care, all.
[ August 18, 2003, 04:12 AM: Message edited by: IndexCard ]
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Happy birthday Danny. Glad to see you posting again, IC. So sorry about what you've been through lately. I wish I had words of comfort, but I don't really. Best of luck, IndexCard. Hang in there. Don't give in to despair Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
One thing I can say: drugs like Depakote often take 4-6 weeks or more to be effective.[EDIT:2-3 weeks +] It varys from person to person. Give the drug time to take effect, OK?
[ August 18, 2003, 04:31 AM: Message edited by: Morbo ]
Posted by tonguetied&twisted (Member # 5159) on :
(((((IndexCard)))))
Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
IndexCard, WHY don't they treat your flashbacks??? I mean, apart from giving you drugs?
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
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