Not that one has anything to do with another, but OSC wrote a column about a Neil Simon play with too much profanity, and next thing I read is Eric Snider is fired for having been mixed up in it somehow.
It just seems odd to me that the only two Mormon columnists I read were both affected by this play. One with outrage, one with firing.
Eric is still going to do some movie reviews on his website, but Snide Remarks is no more.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Sadly, this probably WAS a firing offense -- depending on how strict the paper's ethics policy is. While I see nothing wrong with actually tipping off an editorial subject (or even acting as a primary source), there IS something wrong in suggesting that the information was provided by tipsters unknown to the author.
In my opinion, though, this is a misdeed on the more minor end of the scale; a written reprimand, particularly for a first offense, would seem more reasonable. Given the current ethics climate, though, it's possible that the paper is adopting a "zero-tolerance" policy of its own.
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I've got to say, though, that this quote from the Deseret News makes me wonder if a cabal weren't desperately trying to find and "punish" the informer(s) in the first place:
quote: "We certainly will not cast him again," said Gayliene Omary, one of the owners and a producer at the Grove Theater. "I don't know his intentions. If he's an enemy, we don't want to have people here that want to destroy our theater. We want people that work with us and help us along."
Omary said her theater lost a lot of money when "Rumors" did not go on.
[ August 25, 2003, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
I just hate that. I mean, it stands to reason that people wouldn't want to work with people they couldn't trust, but ... gah.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Who's the him that Omary's not casting again?
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
I don't think Snider's website made everything as clear as it could have. The fact that the "anoymous" tipster was his roommate and actor in the play is a pretty big breach of ethics. I was kinda wondering if they were overreacting too, till I read the above piece.
Posted by Pat (Member # 879) on :
Randy Wright was my immediate supervisor when I worked at the Idaho Statesman in Boise. He and I were the only two page designers there, and because of it, we didn't hit it off too swimmingly. He threatened to fire me on a few occasions, although he could never quite pull it off. I'm sure if he was able to catch me on a technicality, he would have.
He's the reason I left and came to work at the Deseret News. Since that time we have mended some fences and have become somewhat friendly again.
He now is the executive editor at the Provo Daily Herald now. And two months ago he had me in for an interview. Now, keep in mind that I had turned into a semi-regular Eric Snider reader based on OSC's reccomendation.
So, Randy is introducing me to everyone in the newsroom, and then points to Eric, who was on the phone, and says, under his breath, 'that's Eric Snider.'
I say that I think he's a great writer, and that even OSC himself think's he's the funniest Mormon writer around. Randy then scoffed, and said something to the effect that he's not at all happy with his 'outside' business dealings at all, and that he's merely tolerating him for the time being, and then walked away.
So, I guess when Randy says he's firing him for his ethical lapse, I find it hard to disagree with him. But I daresay there were other reasons as well.
And for the record, Randy Wright is no ethical giant either.
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
I agree that is was a major ethical lapse. And while I don't have firsthand knowledge like Pat, it's seems totally reasonable that the Herald's management were just looking for an excuse to bring the hammer down on Eric.
What I don't get is how Eric could have made the mistake.
1. He reads Poynter's Media News -- he knows how oversensitive newspaper managemers are being about ethics these days.
2. He knew that he was working in a highly charged, incredibly politicized environment -- both in terms of the Herald and of the paper's readership.
I just don't get it. I mean sure -- lapse in judgement, didn't see it as that big of a deal, probably felt that he wouldn't get caught, didn't know the story was going to become that big of a deal, etc. -- but how can it not be obvious that you can't write a newstory mentioning a "mysterious tipster" if the tipster is your friend -- and you did a little tipstering yourself.
The sad thing is that he handed all the naysayers and playa-hatas in Utah county the ultimate comeback to the often reasonable things he's written about. His was a needed voice, imo. And I also liked that he wasn't afraid to give local theatre productions negative reviews. Call me a snob, but Utah valley needs good critics. Plus he was pretty funny.
That said, I do hope this leads to something better for Eric. And I always remain grateful to him for being the conduit through which I discovered Schlock Mercenary.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Oh, Pat, I didn't mean to imply that the only reason he was fired was for that one column. I read some of his other columns. I was surprised at what they allowed him to write and figured there was a general hatred for him in Utah.
When I read Battening Down the Hatch, I was rather stunned by. . .
quote: Many people in Utah County dislike people from other countries, especially those who are here illegally. Well, what they ACTUALLY don’t like are people with dark skin; the fact that some are here without papers just gives them justification for hating them. (I guarantee you, illegal aliens from England or Canada don’t bother Utah Countians at all.)
It seems to me that he just called a whole bunch of people racists. I can't imagine that won him a whole lot of friends. (Though, from the letters he posted that he'd received from it, they seemed more offended that he insulted Janice Kapp Perry.
Also, I didn't imagine that the I Can See Queerly Now article went over all that well. I mean, he's in Utah! Doesn't he know that in Utah, you have to change how you say things?
(Actually, in that one, he actually did know it. They changed words in the paper version! I wondered what a gay "party" was. . .)
My point though, when I first read that he'd been fired, I, too, wondered if it was reactionary to other journalism scandals, then wondered if was related to content and complaints and this was just an easy excuse. However, after reading that it was his own roommate that first reported it and he said it was a mystery, well, that made me think that even if they were using it as an excuse, it was a good excuse. It kind of changes my whole opinion about the story.
I wonder if knowing what's out there to be known now changes OSC's opinion at all. And I wonder if he wrote about it because of Snider's column, or if found out about it some other way.
Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
I hope deseret news picks him up, if only to snub the herald.
These are the things that make me want to flee Utah. Sometimes it makes me sick. And I'm sorry, Uncle Orson, because you grew up there and it is your home town, but you will never catch me living in Orem or Provo. I deliberately chose to avoid BYU because I wanted to avoid social mormonism. (And sorry Pat, cause I know you went there, but that really is the truth. There are a lot of good things about the school. Politics aren't one of them.)
My mom, who will have gotten a church commendation for her lyrics for the THIRD year in a row can't even get the music published in the Utah based LDS music industry because she isn't part of the clique. And I've been to one of those dinners. It was like a family reunion of the Janice Kapp Perry family.
Gah.
(Okay, last year was better. Only one Perry song that I'm aware of)
Posted by Sweet William (Member # 5212) on :
First of all, Kayla and everyone, Utah County is not equal to Utah. If Eric was offensive, he was offensive only to the Ruzeka wing of the Republican Party.
Unfortunately, as much as I'd like to see it, I can't see Eric being picked up by either of the Salt Lake papers.
The Salt Lake Tribune is so gun shy right now about ethics, I don't think it would even go near Eric. Besides, they already have Robert Kirby to fill the niche.
The Deseret News is even worse than the Daily Herald as far "avoiding controversy" is concerned.
Perhaps an Ogden paper would hire him.
One thing that bugs me about the affair is this:
The roomate clearly wanted to cause trouble for the theatre. Perhaps he thought that by blowing the whistle the theatre would be forced to leave the swearing in the play and "give these Utah County Philistines some cuture."
If he had copyright issues, he could have first brought up the topic with the director of the play. He could have even quit the play. Instead, he called the playwrite's lawyer. It was a weak, pathetic action by someone who clearly thought he was culturally superior to the theatre owners.
It was almost as if he were saying: "I know better, and I am going to force this backwater to listen to things it doesn't want to hear."
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
True.
But the director and producers also could've been up front with Simon's rights management co. about the changes they wanted to make to the play.
The arrogance goes both ways (or rather all the way 'round) in this story.
Posted by Pat (Member # 879) on :
**lives in Utah County and considers himself a centrist Democrat**
Not equal to what?
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
You do realize that the roommate also works for the paper, right?
I wonder if he's getting booted, also. After all, he knew about the ethics violation.
Posted by Pat (Member # 879) on :
It doesn't matter. They live in Utah County. They don't count.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Ya, because everyone is Utah County is a racist republican, right? Fortunately, it appears that the racist republicans are only in Utah County and haven't spread to the rest of Utah. Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
You know, I still wonder why it is that these particular LDS feel that the F word is worse than breaking the law.
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(Though, from the letters he posted that he'd received from it, they seemed more offended that he insulted Janice Kapp Perry. ![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
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