This is topic Picking friends I admire. in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.


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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I like having friends who are better people than I am. I am starting to realize now that the only friends I keep are those friends I admire.

My closest girl friend is Molly - and I've always looked up to her. Even when we were roommates, I could tell what an incredibly compassionate, wise, unjudgemental, and hilarious person she was. For a while, I wasn't trying to be perfect; I was just trying to be like Molly - that was the first step. Since I've left college, I've noticed that the friends I still talk to are those that I sincerely think I can never be as good as - but who are so wonderful they don't feel the need to inform me of the fact. If you talk to them, the feeling is usually mutual. That's nice.

Accidental virtue doesn't seem to count. I like being around people who are close to their families - because mine is dead/pathetic - but there is a difference between people who reach out and engage their families, and those who grudgingly accept the five calls a week from the host of people who adore them. The first kind is much, much cooler.

Anyway, random thoughts on a Wednesday afternoon.

How do y'all pick your friends?

[ August 27, 2003, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
 

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Posted by Sho'nuff (Member # 3214) on :
 
magic 8 ball.
 

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Posted by seriousfun (Member # 4732) on :
 
None of my friends are better or worse than me, just different. We are all on this bus together, and we are all learning.

I do try to pick my employer to be better than me in some things, so I can learn their secrets and complete my fiendish plan to rule the world.
 

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Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
 
Friends?
 

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Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
 
I don't make friends very easily because I am too lazy to keep up with casual acquaintances, and too demanding of time unless you really really like me. *grin* Therefore, the friends I tend to keep are the ones who really value our friendship and who need it as much as I do.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Zal

Christy: *thinks* I think I used to be like that. Sheer self-defense, though, I'm reaching out more. I still make it through meetings by sitting next to and talking to the most interesting person there who is sitting alone. This way, I am amused and occasionally intrigued, and the other person has a someone confident fascinated by them. The confidence is bravado, but it works in the short run.
 

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Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
 
My friends are people I click with and enjoy talking to and being with. I don't really pay attention to them being "better" or "worse" than me, and am not even sure how I would evaluate that. We all have different qualities and strengths.

**Ela**
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I click with just about everybody, though, one way or another.

I can't even say I go by things in common, because my best friends I have had almost no "interests" in common, but simply complementary personalities.

*thinks*
 

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Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
 
kat: I think it's an intriguing concept, it's just that I'm not sure how it all works. What does one do exactly to maintain a friendship?
 

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Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
 
Friends are difficult for me. I tend to be very bad at keeping in regular contact. I like to be alone or with my S.O. aka "Diane" and don't have interest in hanging out with people much.

It used to be different. But a lot of my life involves compulsory interaction with people I have to be friendly with and whose names I have to keep straight. Having a ton of acquaintances can put a damper on the energy I have for real friends.

So most of my friends end up being people who are much nicer and more patient than I am. They have to be.

[ August 27, 2003, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: sndrake ]
 

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Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
 
Oh yeah, and:

it's quite hard for me to find potential friends that are better than me. In fact, it hasn't happened yet.
 

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Posted by T. Analog Kid (Member # 381) on :
 
why is the confidence mere bravado? from my experience, you have nothing to be self-conscious about...
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 

quote:

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I think it's an intriguing concept, it's just that I'm not sure how it all works. What does one do exactly to maintain a friendship?

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quote:

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why is the confidence mere bravado?

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Because I am actually horribly shy and easliy shocked by kindness. The bravado serves as a deterrant - "Because of my confidence/popularity/poetry skills, it is in your best interest to be kind."

(This only applies to meeting strangers. Hatrackers are different. *twinkle* )
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 

quote:

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it's quite hard for me to find potential friends that are better than me. In fact, it hasn't happened yet.

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quote:

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Every person who posts in here saying "My S.O. is my best friend - what do you need another for?" is getting a swirlie

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Touched a nerve...

Even at their very best, it is nearly impossible for the S.O. to be your SOLE support for very long. We all need friendS (plural). Putting that kind of burden on one person will wear them out entirely in a surprisingly short period of time (learned the hard way folks).
 

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Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
 
I'm completely joking, of course. Jeez. Are you trying to force me to use smilies or something?

What I'm not joking about is that it has been difficult for me to make and then keep in touch with friends.

I think part of the problem that I have is that I'm rather reserved and it takes me awhile to feel comfortable with people. In my experience, you need to have an extended period of time with a friend where the friendship is very active and somewhat intense in order to be able to reach the point where a christmas card each year and an e-mail every six months are enough so that when the opportunity does arise you still get together and it's like old times. My parents are like that -- there are couples that they don't see for years at a time, but then someone makes a trip to Calif. and it's three days of non-stop talk.

Actually this has all started to change in the last 18 months or so. In fact, my wife and I are actually going to be hanging out in a few weeks with some friends who recently moved away but will be back in the area.

<----Zal, the Big Unapproachable [Edit: as I typed that the voice of my wife appears in my head saying "you just think that's how you appear."]

[ August 27, 2003, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: Zalmoxis ]
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Zal, is this like when Jon Boy responds seriously to Kayla's jokes? He's right - this IS fun.

I know EXACTLY what you mean.

I'm thinking about this, of course, because I just got back from visiting an old friend that I hadn't completely lost touch with, but close. We were roommates for a very short time, but it was nice to remember what a fabulous time we had and why it was so much fun.

I have a theory that someone isn't a real friend until there is a year and a change. A year to cover all seasons, and a change to make sure that you are friends for reasons other than convenience.

(Side note: This is killing me in dating, because my same theory holds there and it does NOT fit the Mormon dating model at ALL - which is, if you aren't sure within three months, give up and find someone else. Dang it.)

That's where the "better" part comes in - after the change, it usually takes some sincere effort. For me, admiration will motivate me to make the effort where giggles won't.

[ August 27, 2003, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
 

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Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
 
D'oh!

Stupid insincere sighing gets me every time.

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Yah. I hear you there, kat. Thanks God (and my wife) I didn't have to do the Mormon mode of dating. Of course, I put my future bride through hell, but it all worked out in the end.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 

quote:

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I put my future bride through hell, but it all worked out in the end.

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That's actually nice to hear. I know there are many who don't fit the standard mode, but it's nice to know that there are alternatives to fitting the standard mode that work out well.

Still... I think the guys get much more leeway in this. Sheer culture and what my bishop called "the surplus of princesses" means me putting someone through hell usually doesn't last very long. Very sad. Can't change it though - I do know that. The past year and a half has been crazy and not particularly fun for me, but at least now I know that there is simply no earthly way that I can permanently squeeze myself to fit the customs and not throw myself off a bridge.

[ August 27, 2003, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
 

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Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
 
Now I know why Kat likes me so much.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Ralphie pays me so you don't get sad.
 

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Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
 
Ha!

1st: Ralphie has no money.

2nd: If she did, she would pay people so that SHE wouldn't get sad.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
She writes my lines for me. Notice the Funny comes and goes? Every time you start wandering around Portland in a bathrobe covered in Cheeto dust, I get another sheet of jokes.
 

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Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
 
If Slash didn't slam me with every available breath, I would strongly suspect the Pod People had gotten him.
 

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Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
 
That was a slam?

Hmmm...

You freely admit to not having money. And of the two of us, you are by far the more prone to melancholy. Those were not slams. Actually, the goal here was to slam Kat. As in, she likes me because I am better.

Try to keep up, dear.

(that was a jab, not a slam)
 

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Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
 
All of my friends are better than me, but more because I'll be friends with anyone who'll be friends with me, and you have to be a really nice person to put up with me.
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 

quote:

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We all need friendS (plural).

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No we don't.

I don't think most people pick friends who are better than they are. If they did, I'd have tons of friends.
 

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Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
 
Slash - I'd still suspect the Pod People had gotten you.

(And, see - you've made me use a smilie, dammit.)
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Crap.

I have to remember how to word things like this. Okay, the disclaimer and explanation:

I LOVE Hatrack. I love the people here. I love the people I have met. I am willing to fly across country to meet people from Hatrack. This place offers me a bit of a home and a refuge from some serious life crap, and I simply love it for it. OF COURSE I like everyone here - that's why I post stuff like this. Because I feel safe enough here to do so.

I should have thought of that. Identifying some friends as being "better" automatically delegates other potential friends as being "worse". Hmm.... but that happens. I told y'all about the whole drama/mess/chaos/witchfest with the girl in my ward, and the saddest part about all of that is that I wasn't really surprised. I'm having a very hard time with my roommate, and part of that is our different expectations of a friend. Truth is, she only needs friends for social connections, and I need friends for family. She already has a family, and I already have social connections. I'm mad because she blows me off and doesn't listen, and she's mad because I don't invite her to places. This isn't working.

Hence the thread. Sorry. I consider Hatrack part of the inner world. This stuff only applies to the outer world.
 

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Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
 
I scout my friends first, and based on whether I think we'd be compatible, I browbeat them repeatedly until they agree to be my friend.

No really, that's something like what it is.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I'm fascinated by this kind of thing because the whole real friends/sociality thing didn't happen until later. I spent my childhood lost in books, very sincerely. I didn't have any friends that read with me, and the few I had I now realize were given to me - they were the children of my mother's friends. I didn't have to work at it.

Remember that line in the shadow books? How Bean would always speak the language of the heart with a foreign accent - that's me in a lot of ways. Having decided friendship was something that I want and need, I'm still trying to work it all out.

Oh gosh, this is just getting worse and worse, I think. Eh, that's okay. I figure there is a list of things I want to accomplish and be in my life, and before the day is through, I will go through every one of them. I have many of the intellectual and spiritual things already covered; what's left are the physical and intersocial. I know it's backwards from the customary (and probably ideal) method of doing things, but the Lord loves me anyway. This isn't a race.

[ August 27, 2003, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
 

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Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
 
This thread is one of those thoughtful-deep-yet-smilie ones.

I consider all you fine folks to be superior friends. In fact I consider all my friends superior - and this isn't because I only pick fabulous people to befriend but because everyone I know is superior to me in some aspect of their life. Some are far more loving and caring than I, others are more talented. Some are funnier, and some know how to act like a grown up.

My theory is: the more superior people I surround myself with, the more I'm exposed to and the more is likely to rub off.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 

quote:

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the more superior people I surround myself with, the more I'm exposed to and the more is likely to rub off.

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Bingo.

I like being around people who make me better. It's all quite selfish, really. I'm friends with YOU for ME.
 

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Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
 
True, I think part of the reason people pick certain people as friends is to fill a dearth in their own personalities.

My best friend and I fill each other out so well that sometimes it's impossible to tell us apart. We fill the gaps in the other's personality. (superficial example: She's an excellent cook, I burn tomato soup)

And my other friends are the same way. We all somehow fill a gap in the other's lives. (I find often that the gap I fill in my friends lives is filled by my family, which has become a surrogate family to many of my friends...)
 

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Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
 
There are bits of lemon peel floating down the Thames that are better people than me.

Finding friends is a SNAP.

edit: Kate - Hush you!

[ August 27, 2003, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: Ralphie ]
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
The Thymes?

Does that flow from the Big Rock Pepper Mountain?

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On a serious note, does no one else seriously do this?
 

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Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
 
On a serious note - yes. But most people are better than I am at something, if not most things. In all seriousness, finding friends based on that is a snap.

The thing that is the real clincher is finding people with my sense of humor.
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
You know, I asked my husband to name anyone he knew that he considered to be my friend. He couldn't think of one.

So far this month, I've talked to my husband and a teacher at my son's school. Oh, and my mother-in-law when she needed help with her computer. And my parents when they called to talk to my son. Yep. That's it.
 

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Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
 
I don't see how you survive without girlfriends. Who do you show your new shoes to?

[ August 27, 2003, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: Annie ]
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
*sniff* I thought I was your friend.
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
The last time I got new shoes was over a year ago when I got two pair. Since then, one has never left the box and the other still looks pretty darn new.
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
Kat, do online friendships really count? We were only talking about "real" people. (My husband and I, that is.)
 

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Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
 
*is not a real person*

... but I do want to see your shoes
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Online counts. It's different, but it still definitely counts.

Specifically, some emotional and social needs can be fulfilled online. That means it counts.
 

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Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
 
The Internet: Fullfilling some of your social and emotional needs since the mid-70s!
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
eh. I only saw my husband and son for four years before I got a computer and came here. I don't think friends are necessary. Y'all make my days more fun, but I lived before. And I lived without other friends in the "real" world. I don't expect friends from here to be like friends in real life. Not that I expect friends in real life to behave like friends should. Which is pretty much why I don't have any.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
But you're friends with Caleb, right? And that's in real life.

Heck, once established as friends, an e-mail every six months is all it takes.
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
Oh, and Annie, they are only white tennis shoes. When my parents came to town, I think they were embarrassed when we went out to dinner when I wore my old ones.
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
Kat, I met Caleb once. We talked for a few hours and haven't seen each other since, though we keep talking about getting together.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Well, I don't believe you. You simply do have friends, whether you want to or not.
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
What, online friends? And if I didn't have the internet starting tomorrow?
 

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Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
I don't consciously look for people who are better than me. I just look for people I have fun being with. That means they need to be funny, intelligent, profound, good communicators, and ethical people. Whether they rank above me or slightly below me on any of those scales doesn't really matter, as long as they are on the charts.

(Of course, that implicitly assumes that I must be all of those things, neh? Oh well, if I am not high on any of those lists, my friends still must not be significantly lower. I am not trying to sound stuck up . . .)

I do think friendships are important, but I don't think you need to have many of them. It just depends on how intense a friendship you have. One really good friend is enough. In my life, I've been quite lucky in this regard. (We'll see how I feel in a year or so . . .) I don't think I could handle life without any friends (but as in other things, whether or not I have friends is in my control, whether I realize it or not.

quote:

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I don't expect friends from here to be like friends in real life.

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quote:

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Merely HAVING friends -- makes you a better person

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Oh, so that's what I've been doing wrong!
 

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Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
 
Katharina, I think you had a good step forward when you went with admire. The friends you keep have characteristics/strengths that you respect and admire about them.

You tend to keep friends that live up to (share?) your ideals? Although, you've said that you may not share beliefs. Perhaps, you tend to keep friends who live up to their ideals. Who value bettering themselves which encourages you?
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Hmmm... admire is probably closer. I'm not sure.

I was trying to think of what made Molly such an incredible person. I realize "better" is the nineteen-year-old shorthand for what I thought of her. I didn't (don't) want her life, but I liked her.
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
>> Hmmm... admire is probably closer. I'm not sure. <<

Yes, it is. At least to what I'm thinking...

Most of my close friends are people I admire and have a deep respect for. It's not a prerequisite or anything, it just worked out that way.

Take Bob the Lawyer, for instance. That's one crazy-cool cat right there.

(For those who don't know, I've known BtL IRL for many years.)

[ August 27, 2003, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: twinky ]
 

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Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
 
All of my friends are better than me at something. Some are better athletes. Some are smarter. Some are better musicians. Most are funnier. I wouldn't say that any of them are "better" than me, though.

I'm not sure I really "pick" my friends, either. That is, I can be quite outgoing when I choose to be, and when I'm like that I'll talk to and interact with a lot of people. Usually I'm like that at beginnings: first few months of college, first few months at a new job site, first few months of being on Hatrack. I find that I just naturally gravitate towards certain people. I find them engaging for one reason or another, and it often works out that I have a lot in common with these people, whether it be a sense of humor, general worldview or certain interests. The closeness of the resulting relationship is sometimes proportional to how well I mesh with the person (in terms of both similar and complementary traits).

On the other hand, I have several friends, some here, some offline, several very close, with whom I have some very fundamental differences in temperament or philosophy. This can put a certain amount of strain on the friendship, but I can't think of a time that it's actually ended it.

Friendships are incredibly important to me. I'm a very loyal person; my friends are like family to me. I'd take a bullet for any one of my friends. Having friends enriches life.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Twink: Okay, that leads to the next question.

Do you admire what you don't have and wish to? Or do you admire what you do have and therefore value?

Do you have it because you value it and therefor worked on it? Or do you value it because you have it and that value stems the "what I am is better" narcissism of children?

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I'm starting to realize just how politically charged the word "better" is. Okay, I'll stop using that. It came from laziness anyway, so this is all for the better.

[ August 27, 2003, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 

quote:

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I'm starting to realize just how politically charged the word "better" is. Okay, I'll stop using that. It came from laziness anyway, so this is all for the better.

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You didn't even make it one sentence!!
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Are you doing to me what Jon Boy does to you? *sad* I was trying to be funny.

I need to get another payment from Ralphie.

[ August 27, 2003, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
Um, yeah. (You added that winking smilie, didn't you. )
 

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Posted by Ryan Hart (Member # 5513) on :
 
I only keep friends that I can have a good intellectual discussion with. The temporary n00b Jimmy and I are best friends. He is the more liberal of the two of us.
 

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Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 

quote:

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Hell, you could be Katharina for all I know.

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Crud. You sussed me out.
 

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Posted by Equality 7-2521 (Member # 5586) on :
 

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(Side note: This is killing me in dating, because my same theory holds there and it does NOT fit the Mormon dating model at ALL - which is, if you aren't sure within three months, give up and find someone else. Dang it.)

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Just find someone who fits your model of how things ought to be.

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Wow. That's a really great idea.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
*laugh* I just caught why half the people in the thread have come slightly wary.

Thread title: Picking friends who are better than you.

Nono, let me try that again.

Thread title: Picking friends who are better than you.

Good heavens, no wonder. Okay. Ten points off the top for just shooting my mouth off out loud without considering (1) the fact that I am in the company of friends, (2) POV, and (3) vocabulary. Sorry. I love you guys - enough to feel so comfortable I do not carefully weigh and listen to my words before I say them. On the other hand, maybe I should. Sorry.

[ August 28, 2003, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]
 

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Posted by LadyDove (Member # 3000) on :
 
Kayla-
From the sample of Hatrackers I've met, I'd say that the on-line folks here are real people.

Real in the sense that the people they are on-line are the same people they are in real life.

True, you don't need to put on your make-up before you say "Hi" to them on-line, but aside from that, I'd say that the people here are even easier to hang with IRL than they are on-line.

I wouldn't discount a friend, or count yourself friendless, just because you haven't shared a meal with these good folks.
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
>> Do you admire what you don't have and wish to? Or do you admire what you do have and therefore value? <<

Option 3 -- I especially admire the things in which they are greater than I.

Also I admire traits I don't possess, but to a lesser extent. My friend Fred, for example, plays every instrument I play, only better. I both respect and admire that. He's also smarter than I am. I respect and admire that.

But in friendship, I find that respect has to be mutual. He isn't my friend because I think he's better than me, he's my friend because there's mutual respect that has developed over time.
 

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Posted by LadyDove (Member # 3000) on :
 
I do seek to spend time with people I am trying to "model". But those folks aren't necessarily friends.

Friends come in all different packages for me:
Telephone friends - Never met them, but would miss them if we didn't talk every day.
Work friends - These guys are more like family. I'd give them a kidney if they needed one.
Cocktails- These are the folks that are guaranteed to brighten my day and make me forget my own troubles; I call them at 5P on my way home.
Social Friends - It's always a special occasion when we get together.

I identify friends as the people that make me feel relaxed. The people that allow me to be myself and who don't walk on eggshells around me.

Specifically, generally they're the people who make fun of me when I do something stupid and I laugh right along with them.

And when they're in need, and I'm able to help, they're the people who understand that seeing them happy is all the thanks I'll ever need.
 

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Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
 
<---- Tries to think of something he can do better than twink. Comes up empty.

I'd say that I respect the qualities in other people that we share and admire the qualities they have that I don't. It's hard to respect something that you're just not familiar with.

And yes, I do think there's a difference between admiration and respect.
 

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Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
 
>> I'd say that I respect the qualities in other people that we share and admire the qualities they have that I don't. It's hard to respect something that you're just not familiar with. <<

That's a good way of putting it.

I admire the strength of BtL's convictions in certain areas and the strength of his character in others. I respect his intelligence and wit, among other things.


 

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Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
 
I've been lucky to be blessed with good, log-term friends (and I'm only (almost) 27. Sure, in elementary, middle, and high school, there was always that one slightly unhealthy friend, but I don't keep in touch with them (and I often found that when I was friends with them, they didn't try any garbage on me)... I seem to have a knack for gaining the resprect of "fringe people", those folks perceived to be at the edge of a given group.

But enough self-promotion.

As for current friends, I still keep in touch and visit college friends, though I've been out of college, and we all live far from each other, for 4-5 years. My current roommate (until I move in with my girlfriend next week) is one of my friends from 2nd grade! I also have friends from pre-school (well, I met them in pre-school, but became really good friends in 5th/6th grade).

The best thing is, they are all good friends, friends for a lifetime. I don't know why I attract these people toward me, but I ain't complaining

-Bok
 

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Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
 

quote:

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Real in the sense that the people they are on-line are the same people they are in real life.

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