Your own dear Jenny is following her bliss. I'm taking classes so I can earn my gifted/talented teaching endorsement. I'm taking an internet course on curriculum right now, and loving it. I taught G/T last year as a long-term sub, and I seem to be a natural.
So, Hatrack. What do you think? What can you wacky g/t kids tell me about your school experiences, and what worked well for you, and what didn't, and what you wish school was like? How do you think kids learn best? What qualities does a GOOD teacher need to have?
Also, help me sharpen myself. Ask me questions and make me seek answers. I want to be an expert in this field so I can teach as I dream to teach.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Jen, it didn't work well for me when they cancelled the gifted and talented program at my school due to lack of funds. Don't let them do it.
Posted by Yebor1 (Member # 1380) on :
fine jenny
am i gifted and talented or just "gifted and special"
Posted by Yebor1 (Member # 1380) on :
they are bumping me
jeni goood teachers praise
Posted by Damien (Member # 5611) on :
I tested GATE in the first grade.......I wasSO bored, my whole life.... just do FUN things.... GATE kids'll learn it.... I was SO bored.... I never finished High School, come to think of it..
I was one of those "really bright kids who just wasn't applying himself...."
I suggest going the 'fun' route.... and best of luck, GATE kids can be stubborn as hell... Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
Oh, I'm evil. I get kids to work hard and ENJOY it. Today, I red-pencilled my second graders and they begged for more. Mwahahahah! Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Make it fun and engaging. Play games, like tv quiz shows or whatever, but with class materials.
The 'usual ' stuff worked well for me, because I'm a very aural/visual learner, but many gifted children are not. Getthem involved in things that allow them to move and use their hands.
Posted by wieczorek (Member # 5565) on :
In the 4-6 grade, I was in GTE, Gifted, Talented Education. I've actually come to wonder what life-altering experience I had in between 6th grade and the present time to have created such a gullible idiot out of me now...hmmm...but no matter. The only advice I can possibly give anyone who is in charge of teaching a GTE or GT class is attempt extending the graduating year from 6th to...some other suitable higher class. GTE was a great and fun experience for me. It shouldn't be brought to an abrupt hault because of age. I suppose, though, that anyone who really loved GTE could purposefully flunk and then repeat - but I suppose you would be dropped from GTE, wouldn't you then? Posted by Jacare Sorridente (Member # 1906) on :
Jenny- I think that something very important in teaching kids is working on thinking rather than memorization schools. The best classes I had were ones which gave information about how a thing works (memorization) then asked the students to design a test and predict results (critical thinking). For example, you could have a session dealing with insects which includes information about how they sense the world ie differences in sight, smell, etc. You could then observe the actions of ants near a food source and point out that the ants follow one another to and from the food. Ask the students to conjecture on how the ants accomplish this and to design an experiment to test their theories. You could even choose the most promising experiment and perform it during class time.
As a follow up you could share the design of an experiment by real entomologists from a magazine such as Nature where you can read articles such as the findings on how dung beetles know where they are going ( http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s892856.htm ) etc. The resulting exposure to the scientific method from such activities taught me more about science than all of the books I ever read about famous people and their famous discoveries.
Posted by MaureenJanay (Member # 2935) on :
In SEARCH (same as GATE) we did these awesome games that lasted a quarter where you got a few goods and survived as long as you could. One was sort of a "pioneer" thing, and the other was related to exploring the new world. It was a race to get to Oregon/New World the fastest, and you had to stay alive. It was GREAT! We also did fake stock exchanges. One of my favorites seems kind of lame, but we loved it, so I'll say it anyway. Toothpick models! I built a replica of the Macinac Bridge that had lights on it and everything!
Meeeeem-morieeees....
Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
The best program I can remember was the one run by Ms. Gray. She introduced us to all kinds of stuff...crafts, astronomy, mythology, philosophy...and then let us run with it. We decided what interested us enough to pursue, and if someone wanted to go more in-depth with something, we had that freedom.
Of course, this particular GATE program was after school, so she didn't have to meet any guidelines on *what* she had to "teach" so there was a lot more freedom.
The good thing was, it was the one time in my school career I can remember not being bored. Even the &%%^#$ classwork seemed less boring because the faster I finished it, the sooner I could get back to what I liked.
I think kids just need something genuinely entertaining/not stupid to look forward to. JMO
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
What grade level(s) might you be teaching, Jenny? Just 2nd? I know my experiences were very different at different ages, and no one method would have worked at all times.
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
GTE - the kids in honors classes who constantly told the other honors students how much better they were because they were so gifted and talented.
NHS - the kids in honors classes who had a GPA of 3.8 or higher.
Overlap of these groups - 1. Technically. The one GTE/NHS girl had dropped out of GTE because she couldn't stand the other GTE people. So really, 0.
Posted by wieczorek (Member # 5565) on :
I don't think that many 4th grade kids know the meaning of being better than the other person. Posted by MaureenJanay (Member # 2935) on :
celia:
Yep. The difference between people who think they are so smart that they don't have to work, and the people who are smart enough to work.
Posted by wieczorek (Member # 5565) on :
celia60, you might find that elementary schools don't have honors classes - that starts in 7th grade. Posted by MaydayDesiax (Member # 5012) on :
It's a known fact that gifted/talented kids act crazy, because they can get away with it because they're smart. Let them get away with only so much.
And make the lessons interesting! The best class I ever had was my AP American History class junior year, because the teacher gave kickin' lectures, and made us involved and care about the class.
You'll do fine.
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
roll your eyes all you want. i am simply recalling my own observations.
here, i'll give you a conclusion to get upset over: the gifted elitist mentality was rooted in years of being told they were better(and that *did* start in grade school). the honors elitist mentality was rooted in a weighted grade scale, so if all your courses weren't weighted(you could get the same letter grades and a lower gpa).
[ September 16, 2003, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: celia60 ]
Posted by MaureenJanay (Member # 2935) on :
quote: The best class I ever had was my AP American History class junior year, because the teacher gave kickin' lectures, and made us involved and care about the class.
Yeah, we must have gone to same school. That was also my favorite class, same year, and for the same reasons.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
Please Jenny, in the name of all that is good, don't give busywork! My GT 6th grade teacher did that, and it was so dull.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Muppet's got a great point—more work does not equal challenging work.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
I had the best gifted experience ever during my elementary school days. I remember LOADS of projects and games and things in general we did...i'll list some here, PLEASE feel free to email me for a more detailed run-down of stuff.
-We watched both of the "Voyages of the Mimi." This was one of the highlights, if not the best thing I did in my gifted program. Educational and entertaining. We even took a field trip to Philadelphia to see the Mimi and meet the actor who played Captain Granville!
-We made shops! This was pretty cool too...you got in groups of two and created a little diorama-like mini-store. You could sell anything you wanted, as long as you could actually make enough of "stuff" to sell to the class. Kids earned fake money during the weeks that the project was going on by doing extra activities and projects. Then we had a market day where kids went around to the shops and bought things, and then we had a big auction at the end for "big" prizes...one of which, i distinctly remember, was a Nutrageous bar. teehee!
-We had a Stock Market game, which i understand is pretty common, even in non-gifted classrooms. But it was fun! And my team won!
-They had my dad come in to teach a few French lessons. He doesn't speak French fluently, but he's been a few times and it was fun and educational.
I loved our school's gifted program. *fond memories*
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
I've been there and done that (MGM - mentally gifted minor - kid in elementary school and honor society member in community college; junior high and high school, I spent as a spectacular underachiever because I was so spectacularly bored). So, a few things:
Don't assume that just because a kid is labeled as "gifted and talented" that he or she will automatically "get" everything. I had a geometry teacher in high school (where there was no gifted and talented program) who refused to answer any of my questions and told me I should figure it out myself because she had "seen my records" and knew I had tested out with a high IQ score. Problem was, I didn't "get" geometry and wouldn't have been asking if I hadn't tried to figure it out for myself first.
Don't let them get away with thinking that just because they're smart, that means they're better. It just means they're good at school; there are, in most cases, plenty of people out there in the world who are better at most things than they are and the sooner they learn this the better off they'll be.
Don't let them think that having a good memory - for example, being able to memorize facts easily -means that they necessarily know how to put those facts together into something meaningful. In other words, spouting facts without context will not subsitute for being able to put together a good, cogent argument.
And, as one of my mentors and honor society advisors in community college always puts it, "An occasional C is good for the soul." Just because they are in a gifted and talented program doesn't mean they are entitled to an automatic A in every class.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I tested as 'gifted' in math and english in grade six. (needless to say that didn't stop me from failing math last year). In grades seven and eight, I participated in the french-immersion gifted class. I remember nothing but boredom, and feeling completely out of place, and not at all gifted.
We were asked to invent something. I failed miserably, because I refused to document every little thing, something I still hate doing. I couldn't invent something.
We learnt bridge, which bored me.
Most things were really mathmatically/scientifically based, and although I was able to do math it bored me to death. I remember feeling lost, swamped and out of my depth. I never participated in discussions, because I was shy and wasn't interested in math, science, inventing and economics.
It was dreadful. Please, when you teach, remember the student who doesn't speak. She's not stupid, just maybe not terribly scientific (Hint: she's a bookworm).
But I'm sure you'll be wonderful!
quote: Voyages of the Mimi
I watched both series' in regular school. That was fun! (especially when Ben Affleck's voice changed between the story episodes and the educational episodes...) I was also infinately amused when I connected both Ben Afflecks together as the same person...
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
I had two completely different types of gifted and talented experiences during school. One was in a small rural school with limited funding, the other was in regular gifted/talented classes in a mid-sized city.
In the smaller school, about three or four kids from each grade level from 4th through 6th were taken out of class twice a week for gifted/talented class. That particular class lasted for about three to four hours each session. In the class, we'd be given all sorts of problem-solving assignments and would work together to solve them or resolve them.
The one I remember the best was a NASA test given to astronauts to rate the importance of a list of common items if they found themselves marooned on the moon 20 miles from a lunar base. You had to give your top 10 from the list and why each was important. That test has got to be out there somewhere.
Also, each week, we were given a reading assignment and a writing assignment. Each reading assignment required us to pick a book from the classroom's collection and then write a short report on what we read. The books were fiction and non-fiction and selected to be above the standard sixth grade reading level. I figure they had also been hand-picked by the teacher to make sure they weren't boring or dry. I can't remember ever not finishing one of those books.
The writing assignment was simple. There were three fishbowls, filled with strips of paper. One was labeled "characters", one "places" and the last "situations." Each kid drew one piece of paper from the places and situations bowls and two slips with characters' names on them. Then, you basically had to write a story where the characters resolved the problem. I once got "Jerry Lewis" "Godzilla (character)" "Movie Theater" and "toothache" as an assignment.
That class was a blast and I still admire the teacher greatly.
Moving on to the more traditional gifted/talented program in the city, I didn't have a very good experience. Basically, the classes were simply accelerated courses of study, with additional band classes (mandatory) and more field trips. For the most part, looking back, I never felt very challenged to be creative, just to perform. I pretty much wasted away in there (I was also going through my parents' divorce at the time). Also, thinking about it, it amazes me how many kids there were in those classes that had emotional problems or who would later go on to develop drug and alcohol issues in high school and college.
Sorry to have rambled, but I think I can say that any activity that fosters a child's creativity and encourages them to explore new things is great, especially when they can take a hand in choosing what they will do. Just pushing the kids to go faster, however, isn't gonna do most smart children much good.
Does anyone know what the burn-out rate on gifted/talented programs is among the students?
Posted by wieczorek (Member # 5565) on :
Jenny, make sure that you communicate with the kids. Near the beginning of the year, tell them that if there is ever anything you're saying that doesn't make sense, they can just make a face or some kind of gesture that you will recognize as needing help. Don't make a point of saying, "Little Timmy needs help. Well, I guess I'll explain it again." Just say, "Let's go over that again to make sure I wasn't going to quickly." Lots of kids don't like to admit they're wrong, but I've found that there is actually joy in the process of claiming your faults!! Well, that's a slight exaggeration... Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I was in HAP (high aptitude program), which is basically the same thing as GTE and whatnot.
My teachers (Two of them for 5 years, they alternated years) focused a lot on the higher levels of Bloom's taxonomy (or, they called it, the HOTS - higher order thinking skills). We did plenty of logic exercises, code-breaking and making, creative problem solving, brain teasers, and more adult looks at world politics and whatnot.
One of the better experiences we had was that each year for two weeks, a math specialist would come in to work with us on developing critical problem solving skills and pattern recognition. Because of that experience, I kicked butt all through math classes and now teach math at a middle school.
A couple of other units I particularly enjoyed were those on survival (there's a great game called the Hungry Zenobians, if you can find it) which was more situational-based involving"what would you do" sort of scenarios, and the mock-trial and mock-master plan scenarios where we were all assigned roles and had to debate or come to compromise (the witch suing hansel and gretel was fun, and the pied piper suing the king, too... and the master plan project pitted several groups of special intersts against one another and gave us some good environmental/social/economic awareness).
And get your hands on a book series called "Stories with holes"... I loved those (though some are significantly better than others).
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Be enthusiastic about what you teach. Love it, and let them see that you love it. If it's a subject you don't personally like, let them know that and then find a way to make it interesting anyway.
Kids respond to enthusiasm, gifted or not, as long as it isn't forced or artificial.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
My fifth grade teacher was the best teacher I ever had, and while the class wasn't gifted and talented, she taught it as if it was, and so the kids thought they where. Basically her philosophy was, that yu were going to learn in her class, but she didn't care what you learned. I did a major research project on King Arthur in that class. We did a mock trial, where (the class decided) Suzy sued Calvin for hitting her with a snowball. There was a one week Intersession, where she got people from around the community to come and give short (1 to 4 hours) seminars on various subjects. Two boys in our class wrote a parody of Star Wars (It was the year the special editions came out) and we directed, staged, and performed it. She had a group of students that wrote a grant to get money for a birdhouse to study, and they purchased the materials and put it up. The advanced math class did Fantasy Baseball, we each had a baseball player, and we had to work out his probability for all of his stats, and then we played a game. We wrote stories and whatever else we wanted constantly. For my report on King Arthur I wrote a ballad. It was the best class I was ever in in elementary school.
Posted by E (Member # 1748) on :
I go with Gardner's Multiple Intelligences theory, myself.
The term "gifted and talented" implies that other children, whose IQ scores fall beneath a certain range, are NOT gifted and talented, and that is simply untrue.
Sorry, pet peeve alert.
Elizabeth(signed in under wrong name and too lazy too go back and change it)
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Okay. So, can we label them the "rapid abstract thinker and learner" intelligence? Or perhaps the "comfortable with many intelligence models" group? Maybe the "I can pass any test you put in front of me" intelligence classification? How bout the "voracious and insatiable learners" group?
Multiple intelligences or not, some people have a far larger toolbox to draw from, or a greater tendency to seek out new tools. (I somehow remember a long thread that talked about this, primarily featuring Irami, if I remember right). While visual learners have difficulty with straight textual instruction, there are some learners who are equally comfortable in all of the various intelligence models that can draw on any or all of them to solve problems.
Call it IQ, call it aptitude, call it intelligence, call it whatever you want. All animals are created equal, but some are definitely more equal than others.
[sarcasm]But sure, everyone's gifted. Everyone's talented. Let's all play a nice game of "duck, duck, duck" so no one is elevated over anyone else. There are no levels. Let's give everyone A's while we're at it, since to do otherwise would imply that some students are smarter than others. [/sarcasm]
Posted by E (Member # 1748) on :
Flying Cow, I am sorry. I must have hit a nerve. It is just my opinion, which I mistakenly thought I had the right to express without being attacked with sarcasm.
Posted by Maethoriell (Member # 3805) on :
My friends have been in gifted since kindergarten. I was in gifted in the beginning of 6th grade. I loved the direct attention and the fact that I was ahead. Now that I return to some traditional classes, I feel..er.."not taken seriously". In gifted the lessons are taught in small classes to help more in understanding.
Talented Education is usually in the arts. I've only just started it and it helps me practice and understand things that I didn't know before. It stretches your skills and makes you have better appreciation.
..if only other students could have that opportunity I wouldn't feel as bad...
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Sorry back at you too Elizabeth, you did indeed hit a nerve. I've been teaching for a few years now, and the "progression" of education to the point of "feel good daily therapy" has soured me on the "but all kids are equally capable" argument.
All kids may be capable, sure. But there are those who can handle the material at a rate twice as fast as others - hence gifted. There are also those who need to move at half the rate of others - hence, remedial. Regardless of how material is presented. I agree that different students learn in different ways... I just feel that some move faster despite the method, and others move very slowly even with their preferred method.
I've always had a bit of a sore spot for the use of Gardner as the panacea for all of education's problems.
Not that you were doing that, but you triggered a reflex action... my apologies. You have every right to voice your opinion, just as I have every right to attack it. As far as sarcasm goes, I throw that on everyone, regardless of whether I agree with them or not. Posted by ana kata (Member # 5666) on :
Let them read good books of their own choosing. I started reading Faulkner, Hawthorne, Tolstoy, Kazantzakis, etc. when I was in 6th grade. Young kids are perfectly capable of reading real books at this age.
Make sure that the kids themselves have a big part of what happens each day in class. Their intelligence, their creativity, their feelings and thoughts and ideas. Make sure you NEVER know what's going to happen each day in class in advance. Make sure they can surprise you with what they bring to you each day.
Love them each for their individual selves. Remember that each one of them might be the next Einstein, Feynman, etc., if only they believe in themselves. Remember that inside every young cynic is a disappointed idealist who is desperately wanting to believe again.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Jenny First -- Good Luck! Wonderful that you are going for what you want!
Second, as a mother of three G/T teens -- I want to say I hope you don't get "eaten" by the system. My kids all had wonderful GT "facilitators" -- especially one who was the mom of gifted kids herself -- but the school system just eats up these types of talented people and spits them out used. The last teacher we had was required to rotate between 7 different schools, which meant very little time in any one school, and not enough time to really get to know the kids and their needs. And all the paperwork.
My kids loved the gifted teachers, but usually hated the projects suggested by them -- year-long "research" projects, etc. It was as boring as regular classroom.
Push for grade acceleration for some of the outstanding ones that can handle it. No reason to keep them a prisoner to their age-level when they might be much happy studying with people of like mind who are older. (my oldest skipped high school entirely and is a happy sophomore in college).
Would be happy to hear from you via e-mail as time goes through and you get started.
Farmgirl
Posted by ana kata (Member # 5666) on :
A non G-T mom of a G-T friend of mine was so very concerned with keeping him socially in his age group that she didn't seem to notice that he was intellectually all alone. It's not really such a great idea to isolate kids either socially OR intellectually, but for someone exceedingly brainy, I think the intellectual isolation of remaining with kids in your grade level is quite possibly a lot worse than the social isolation that may or may not result from moving them up. Very brainy kids are often socially isolated regardless.
Socially, after all, grown ups of all different ages mix together, and we don't see that as odd or a problem. Why do we band kids together in packs by ages? Packs like that don't really act as nicely to each other as mixed age groups, do they? It's pretty unnatural as a social unit, in fact, to put 25 kids of the same age together in one group. Where on earth did that even come from? It seems like a very stupid idea to me, and I've never been associated with any social units more vicious and hostile in my entire life than those bands of 25 kids all one age that I survived in elementary school.
I've found that kids act a lot less vandalish, gangish, hoodlumish, etc. when they are in groups of widely mixed ages, preferably with several adults in the mix. So I agree that kids who are extra smart should move on up to their level intellectually. For instance, I would let a child skip most of high school if they wanted to. For me high school was 99% a waste of time academically. We had no G-T programs at all back then. I should have gone on to college.
Social interactions aren't nearly as important to someone super brainy as intellectual interactions. Let smart kids rise to the top. Why since we are supposed to believe in a meritocracy in our society do we run schools like communist farms?
Posted by WhiteRabbit (Member # 5621) on :
The two things I remember the most from elementary G&T classes -- these were the sort where we got pulled out for a while in the afternoon three days of the week -- are a) logic puzzles and b) a really primitive, in retrospect, but FUN FUN FUN Apple IIE version of the Oregon Trail game.
I don't do well at logic puzzles. I hate them. Apparently because we were GT we were supposed to be automatically good at them. (Some years later, in college, it took me SIX tries to get through TWO required math classes. A logician, I am not!)
But I LOVED that game. It was so much fun! I'm considering getting an updated version of it just so I can see if it's still as much fun as it was back in 1985.
I too underachieved for no apparent reason through middle school and high school. So did my brother, who is dang near a certifiable genius; I'm pretty bright, but he's scary. He also underachieved his first year at college, unfortunately, since he'd gotten into an honors program and had never needed so had never acquired a study ethic. Oops.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
One of the elementary schools in my city is almost finished transitioning to the point where all of the classrooms have all age levels in them. Apparently it's really popular, and the schools scores (it's one of the poorest schools in the distrit) are soaring.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Flying Cow, here is something for you. Made me laugh. I understand your frustration. The kids I teach are at the other end of the label spectrum. I see their brilliance, and I just try to tap it. it may look different than the genius', but it is as real to me. Their brilliance staggers me sometimes.
Math Problem
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100.His cost of production is 4/5 of the price. What is his profit?
Teaching Math in 1960: A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price, or $80. What is his profit?
Teaching Math in 1970: A logger exchanges a set "L" of lumber for a set "M" of money. The cardinality of set "M" is 100. Each element is worth one dollar. Make 100 dots representing the elements of the set "M." The set "C," the cost of production contains 20 fewer points than set "M." Represent the set "C" as subset of set "M" and answer the following question: What is the cardinality of the set "P" of profits?
Teaching Math in 1980: A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80 and his profit is $20.Your assignment: Underline the number 20.
Teaching Math in 1990: By cutting down beautiful forest trees, the logger makes $20. What do you think of this way of making a living? Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did the forest birds and squirrels "feel" as the logger cut down the trees? There are no wrong answers.
Teaching Math in 2002: A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $120. How does Arthur Andersen determine that his profit margin is $60?
Teaching Math in 2010: El hachero vende un camion carga por $100. La cuesta de production es........
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I have been researching non-verbal learning disabilities, trying to figure out what to do with a couple of students.
I thought this was interesting, in respect to the thread.
"How much is too much? That’s the basic question many parents of highly gifted children ask, especially with regard to their children’s behavior. Even given the general understanding that overexcitabilities [intensities that may express themselves physically, sensually, mentally, emotionally, or through the imagination] are a natural part of the "gifted package," it’s sometimes hard to know natural from needy behavior. This is made more complicated because advice to parents – and it comes from all sectors: relatives, neighbors, educators, psychologists – often does not take into account how higher levels of intelligence and depth of emotionality affect the whole child. The general lack of professional education regarding issues of giftedness can lead to wrong advice or even misdiagnosis."
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
Having been diagnosed as linguistically gifted myself, once, I know where most of you are coming from. I really appreciate your ideas and advice. Last year, I was dumped into a G/T self-contained (all day long, all G/T kids of the same age) classroom to sink or swim. I did the butterfly. As I get myself up to speed on the classes required for my G/T license, I'm finding that G/T "best practices" are what I've been doing all along. It is an absolute pleasure. I love to connect with kids, challenge them, and keep them poised on that edge where they are stretching - not bored, but not too frustrated. I like to work behind the scenes and see what the kids can do with what I give them.
So, ask me a question. Help me study up. Ask me about my teaching practices, what I'd do in such and such a situation, or general factoids about G/T. If I don't know the answers, then I'll know what I need to research next! Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
For Elizabeth - One thing that is highlighted about gifted kids is that they are still kids. They may be more advanced in certain areas, but they are still children and will act so. I found that gifted kids have certain psychological tendencies, and that I had to do a certain amount of "counseling" as part of my classroom management. I also was constantly reassuring parents that it was okay for their kids to struggle with various areas - neatness or procrastination or bossy attitude. In my class, I have high standards communicated with respect and care. I always have reasons for what I ask my students to do, and usually tell them what those reasons are.
Farmgirl - Thanks for the encouragement! I hope I won't get "eaten". I have a lot to give, and I know how much teaching g/t can take from a person. It is a lot of extra work, but I think it's worth it. I thrive on teaching. It makes me happy. But I'm older than most teachers straight out of college, so hopefully I'll know when to put my foot down...
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
Back when I was an elementary ed major (that was try 2 of 4), I read the most amazing book: Making Connections by Caine & Caine. I am a firm believer in interdisciplinary education.
I am also a firm believer that there is such a thing as a gifted child and that he deserves the best education we can give him. I realize that there are "multiple intelligences," but there are also kids who are, frankly, smarter, brighter, and quicker than their peers and if you don't challenge them, you lose them.
One of them was a classmate of mine. In 6th grade, I was in the CHIPS (Challenging High Intellectual Potential Students) program at Governor's Ranch Elementary in Littleton, CO. I had attended a small, rural elementary school in the unincorporated part of the county until that point, and it was only when my parents had me tested for the CHIPS program that I truly learned what education could be.
We didn't just get harder math books - we had a year full of interdisciplinary projects. Nothing was categorized. We had to employ problem-solving skills to real-world situations. We had to research and present independent study projects. I made friends for the first time that wouldn't say things like "brainy kids are stuck up, and Morgan's the brainiest one of them all."
The sad part came at the end of the year, when we all got dumped back into the public junior highs. I had to go back to my rural town where "honors" classes consisted of advanced math and eighth grade science. My other classmates, for the most part, ended up in Ken Caryl Middle School and then Columbine High School. The schools had honors courses, and we were all encouraged to "excel" at our sixth-grade send-off, but a lot of us slipped through the cracks. One of them was my friend Dylan Klebold. He was a quiet, affable boy who was brilliant on the computers and fun to work with once he was comfortable enough to come out of his shell. I don't know if anyone in his mass-production middle school ever got close enough to find that out. I don't know what the critical switchpoint that he missed was, but by 1999, he had wandered past the point of no return and other friends from my 6th grade year - the class of inseparable smart kids who loved each other more than most elementary kids can ever claim - hid in fear in the choir room and cafeteria of their high school while Dylan shot their friends to death in the halls.
I won't ever understand what went wrong, but I will always treasure that one year in 1992 when for once, something in the school system went right.
[ September 20, 2003, 02:04 AM: Message edited by: Annie ]
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
Annie, thank you.
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
Oh, Annie. I don't know what to say, except that I've been there in terms of having been in a gifted program in fifth and sixth grade and then ended up dumped back into "regular" junior high. We didn't even have honors classes. And because of that, I can see how kids get lost in the shuffle, especially the "bright" kids who "surely can take care of themselves". Well, obvioulsy they can't in all cases, maybe even in most cases. Not many, thankfully, will be lost to the extent that Dylan was lost. But even one lost is one too many.
Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
Oh, Annie, that's a horrifying story. :/ I worry about those lost in the cracks, as well.
Jenny, I work at the West Point bookstore (as most people know, but I repeat it to establish where I am coming from) and my customers are cadets who probably have been in G/T programs. One thing that I notice they are lacking (besides sleep, harhar) is studying skill. They don't have a real good grasp of time management, or study habits, or any of these things. I think this is a pretty wide-spread problem in colleges, but it's especially prevalent here, I think, because the study skill class they offer here at West Point is not mandatory, and therefore, poorly attended. I'm not suggesting that the skills class should be mandatory, I don't have any idea how to make it more attractive, I just am suggesting that if more G/T classes (and regular classes, as well) in primary education attempted to teach study skills as an integrated part of the curriculum, the cadets and college students would be better prepared.
Did that make any sense? I'm not being all G/T in the linguistics dept today, am I? *snort*
(BTW--I was in a GATE--gifted and talented education--program in elementary school, and had great fun)
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Annie: I'm vey sorry. Thank you for sharing that story with us, even though it was obviously very private and painful.
I was labeled gifted when I went through our school system, but I never felt that way about myself. I always knew I was smart, about some things in particular, but I often had major problems a specific subject, math. I also got bored very quickly in standard classes, because I read at such a high level that I would read all of the text, if it interested me, usually by the third or forth week. I was constantly being told to stop asking questions, because the answers would be in the next chapter, or because I was moving too fast for the rest of the class.
However, when I would be moved to the "gifted" classes, the teachers would never believe that I didn't understand Algebra....after all, I was "gifted", wasn't I?
Part of it was that everything, except for math, came so easy for me in the regular classroom that I never developed ANY proper study skills at all. I never did my homework, because I usually could come up with the correct answer on the fly, so why bother?
I even had problems in college, with teachers that wouldn't let me ask questions, because, and I quote, "the rest of the class is using you as a crutch, and not learning anything in class.". So I didn't go to class, and the teacher changed his attendance policy 9 weeks into the semester. I failed both of the classes I had with him that semester, even though I had an average of 88% in Childhood Education, and a 96% in Physiological Psychology....and he now uses notebooks and attendance policies as part of his grading system. He uses me as an example at the start of every semester, to explain why he changed his grading policies, even though I haven't had a class with him in twelve years!!!
So I guess my advice is to make sure you don't assume that evey gifted kid is equally gifted in all subjects, and don't discourage learning in any fashon, even if it is unorthadox in direction.
Good luck!!!
Kwea
[ September 20, 2003, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Kwea ]
Posted by Feyd Baron (Member # 1407) on :
Heh... I was identified G/T during my Kindergarten year (I remember because they shuttled me from the private school I was attending to a public school to test me). I entered the program in 1st grade, and despite changing school districts, I stayed in the program all the way through graduation.
Probably the most beneficial aspect of the program (when it was a single, graded class that is), was the abundence of options. I'd say 80% of our projects were open ended, with at least 3 or four very different options. One might be a paper, another might be a model, or game, or movie, etc. If there was only a single project (say a paper), the topic was flexible and open-ended. As for my learning styles... I'm horribly visual and kinetic. I can not simplely read subject matter, or listen to lectures and learn.
And yes, celia was right in the distinction between G/T and AP students. There may have been a few on the wrong side of the fence at the beginning of HS, but that was corrected very quickly. Other classes we were mixed (our G/T program was centered around English, and the only division between the programs wae there).
I'd say the important thing I observed with G/T kids (myself included), is that it is vital for the teacher to keep the respect and trust of the students. This trust can be violated by giving mindless busy work. I'm not sure on the age group, but don't be afraid to explain the goal of the project. If the students are convinced there is a point, they'll likely give you less trouble about it. Another big point that I needed was keep the grading flexible. Undoubtedly you will encounter bizarre projects that skirt on the outer edge of the project intent. My friends and I walked that edge for many long years. I like to think the grades should follow the extent to which their work meets the spirit of the lesson, not how well it matches a lesson plan to the letter. A lot of those possibilities differe with the age of the students. Younger students might need more structure, and will probably not harbor any particular opinions of you for too long. Older students, of course, will do the opposite.
If you have any questions, I like to think I'm expierienced to answer them. I grew up with a parent who was hired by school districts to give strategies for dealing with G/T students. And she was one of the primary developers behind Learning Styles, so I've grown up with that for about two decades. So, if you'd like my two cents, feel free to ask for them.
Feyd Baron, DoC
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
Kwea...your experience sounds very much like mine. I never learned how to study until I got into college, and even then it took me a long time to figure it out. And, as I've mentioned before, math is my stumbling block, too.
Let's put it this way: when I first entered college, right after high school, my counselor looked at my SAT and ACT scores, got a puzzled look on his face, and asked me if I was sure the same person took the math parts of the tests as took the rest of them. I said, well, yes. Then he looked more puzzled and explained that I had scorerd in the top 1 or 2 percent in the nation on the rest of the sections, but scored at 7th grade level in math.
I never learned how to work with fractions until I took algebra in college. I got to the point where I did well in my college math classes (first in my class in Algebra I and second in the class in Algebra II - not bad for a math illiterate ), but it took me hours of study time a day, and I resented every second of it. To this day, I hate doing any kind of math becuase it has such bad associations for me.
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
Feyd, thank you! I have historically constructed somewhat open-ended projects with a rubric for minimum requirements. As long as the parameters are met, the students may do as they will! I do always level with my students - I tell them why we are doing what we do. I express my frustrations and joys to them. I ask them for input. I tell them the goals of the project and grade accordingly.
A lot of you are bringing up something that is hammered on in my gifted ed. classes: Not all gifted students are gifted in all areas. This is crystal clear to me. I loved my G/T kiddos. They all had different areas to shine and different areas where they struggled. I see my role as that of a helper - I encourage and bolster the students' strengths and show them ways to work with their weaknesses. I confess my own weak areas and describe how I am working to improve myself. Basically, I treat my kids as I want to be treated....
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
"To this day, I hate doing any kind of math becuase it has such bad associations for me."
I was also terrible in math, and very high in reading and writing skills. I went to a private school in Phoenix, with very small classes, so there was no program for gifted students. We were all just challenged like heck, by each other as much as by the teachers.
The worst for me was that they put me in the higher level math classes, and I should have stayed at grade level. I was always struggling and frustrated.
I learned math when I started teaching. I swear, I had to live more life before I could understand it. Now, I would love to take all those classes again. It is my favorite thing to teach, and English is my least favorite. Go figure.
Posted by Maccabeus (Member # 3051) on :
Jenny, a lot of people are telling you to leave your classes unstructured, and I know how for a lot of G&T students that works fine. My experience was different, though.
Through most of elementary school I was part of the very local SUMA program. We studied things like ecology and advanced math theories (well, advanced to us--the concept of different bases is one thing I remember as coming from there). It was loads of fun, but the thing is--I don't remember that I learned very much.
Y'see, the folks who ran SUMA were so hot on the idea that gifted students don't need schedules, they need unstructured time and will structure it themselves, that they didn't notice a lot of us weren't structuring it. We were goofing off, or sitting around bored, because there were so many possibilities and we had no idea how to narrow them down.
It wasn't always like that, but more often than not it was the case. I don't know how you teach kids to winnow things down, but handing the time to them sure isn't it.
Posted by Feyd Baron (Member # 1407) on :
Maccabeus, I did try to make that point, but it may have been lost in my unusually long post (for me). Elementary school kids do need structure, no question about it. Highschool kids really need a very mininmal structure. Middleschool is a battleground, because some of the students will be dependent, and many others will still be dependent on the teacher.
What are kids are you dealing with Jenny? I think you mentioned it last time this topic came around, but I didn't notice in this one.
Feyd Baron, DoC
Posted by Audeo (Member # 5130) on :
I tested into the gifted program in fifth grade, but I remember one technique that can be used either very well or very poorly, and that is splitting the class into groups dependent on their skill. For me all three times I saw this it was for math. In third grade, my teacher broke up the kids in the class, then taught each group individually. This worked relatively well. She started out with only 3 divisions, the main class, the remedial group, and the gifted group. She later split the gifted group into two groups one more advanced than the other. Later still I was placed into my own group, where I would come in during afternoon recess to receive my weekly assignment, which I usually finished by the second day. Having personal attention from the teacher made up for the fact that I was losing time with my peers. The next year I had a different teacher.
For math she and another teacher each took a section of their combined classes and taught them in two seperate groups. I and about six others were given a table in the back of the room and told to work our way through the math book alone. We weren't allowed to talk to each other, but had to be quiet so as not to interrupt the class being taught. If we had questions for the teacher we had to go in front of the class she was teaching and interrupt her to ask it. Needless to say that was very embarrassing. The result was that I managed to excel at math but I hated it, and I was isolated from the other kids in my class. By the end of the year I'd stopped doing any of my work in that class, and the teacher had to have a conference with my mom. I was bored and frustrated, and had burned out on math and many other subjects.
The next year I was placed in a gifted program. The district bused me and a half dozen other students from our elementary school to another one half an hour away for class. Here the teacher also split the class up for math, but she allowed us to work in groups and floated around the room to help us with problems we had. She also had a planned curriculum for each math group, so we weren't left slogging through every problem on every page as I had been the previous year. Because we were the most gifted kids in the district (there were somewhere around 2000 kids in each grade level and 60 were in the gifted program) There were at least two or three kids in each level so no one was left to study alone. This also worked very well so well that the next year I was placed in an eight grade math course.
So in elementary school I'd suggest splitting kids up into groups to keep them from either getting lost or bored, but make sure to give personal attention to each group, while allowing the group to work together to solve problems. In high school and middle school, you'll usually find kids of various ages in each level of math so the splitting is already done.
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
I'm an elementary teacher. I recognize the need of most elementary students to have structure. You have to have a workable infrastructure and a schedule that helps kids understand the pattern of their days. But also, as all elementary teachers know, you must be flexible. I try to teach my kids how to work within parameters and show them where they can find wiggle room. Also, I try to take them toward further independence and flexibility. But I have learned the hard way that an established structure is crucial in the beginning. But then (and this is the evil part, where I teach the kids to think for themselves and thereby give them Power) I explain how I came up with the structure and why things are structured that way. In so doing, I model taking charge of time and tasks. Eventually, perhaps, my students will do these things for themselves.
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That was also my favorite class, same year, and for the same reasons.
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and thereby give them Power) I explain how I came up with the structure and why things are structured that way. In so doing, I model taking charge of time and tasks. Eventually, perhaps, my students will do these things for themselves.