This is topic Why I deleted the hug thread. in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.


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Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
Today I decided to delete the hug thread. The hug thread meant a lot to some people, I know, but it outgrew it's purpose. I meant it just to say thanks to everyone, and have it die out within a week, but it kept going.

My apologies to those that used it the most. I know it may have meant something to you, but lets be honest, while it was a place where people could be informed of other peoples misfortunes, it wasn't exactly doing anything but allowing others to feel your sorrow. Or at least that's how I felt every time I've ever said I was unhappy.

It had a thousand different stories in it, but because of those thousand stories, I felt (as have others) that it ruined the giving of hugs.

It may have directed some of your rants, but it was rants. Sorrowful, friend seeking rants. And what exactly does (((((Nate))))) do for me or you anyway? It didn't make my problems go away, it didn't make me feel better, all it did was weigh on others.

Though I didn't want to fully admit it to Pat, he was right. The hug thread really never did anything for me, and it got to the point where everytime I saw it, it ticked me off. I don't know exactly why, but it did.

So if you want to create a hug thread of your own, go for it. If you feel the need to rant and for people to say (((((you))))), I understand. But limit it. Maybe like, one a month, that lasts a week.
 

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Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
 
(((((((((((Nate))))))))))))
 

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Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
 
That's good... You know, it's like writing your worries on a slip of paper and then burning it. Now everything's gone. I feel a lot better now.

If you were here, Nate, I'd hug you.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 


This makes me a little sad, because it grew into something that was larger than the person who originated it, but I understand. People can always start another one if they need it.
 

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Posted by T. Analog Kid (Member # 381) on :
 
No worries, man... sorry it became a drain on you...
 

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Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
 
I was a little surprised, but I see your point. And I support anybody's choice to delete a thread. I have deleted several of my threads for various reasons.

quote:

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it wasn't exactly doing anything but allowing others to feel your sorrow.

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quote:

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Shared pain decreases; shared joy increases

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quote:

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And what exactly does (((((Nate))))) do for me or you anyway? It didn't make my problems go away, it didn't make me feel better, all it did was weigh on others.

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Nathan, what it does for me is give me a way to express that I empathize with you, that you are my friend and I care about what's going on in your life. What it does for you depends on you, I suppose, but I think it lets you know that there are people out there who, even if they are incapable of doing anything more, still want you to know that they are in your corner. I think that knowing you have support can be a powerful thing.

If you truly believe that we are your friends, you should never feel as though you are weighing on us, or that talking about your problems puts a burden on us. You see, friendship, real friendship anyway, is about more than just good times. A friendship is about a common history and the intention of a common future, bound together by a common interest. It involves good times, laughter, happiness, because these are the things that feed a friendship and form it. But it also involves bad times, and these are the things that test or strengthen it. Real friends are there for each other in times of need, not just because we hope it will be reciprocated when we need it, but because we cannot do anything else.

It can be a painful thing to admit that there are people out there who love and care about you, but it's an important thing to do. You shouldn't feel bad about accepting the gift that is a friendship.
 

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Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
 
He can be your minion - he's my mignon.
 

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Posted by Trogdor the Burninator (Member # 4894) on :
 
Burnination is much more personal.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
((((Trogdor)))) just to annoy you...
 

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Posted by Trogdor the Burninator (Member # 4894) on :
 
**burninates katie, just to annoy her**
 

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Posted by porcelain girl (Member # 1080) on :
 
nathan, it is not a waste of time to share your troubles with others.
it is not a waste of time to lend an ear to someone that feels weighed down by the world.
that is why we are all on one planet instead of billions of individual planets.

i do not feel burdened by the sorrow of others, i feel thankful that i can be of some help.
and sometimes listening truly is help.
 

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Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
 
((((((((habiibi T))))))))
 

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Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
 
I agree with my sensei, and am appalled that I didn't address it at the first.

Nobody has no problems. This I have learned. If you have a lot of problems, you need someplace to let it out. I can't tell you I haven't worried about you, but it's a good worry. Having a hug thread or whatever can't do away with your problems, but it gives you an outlet for them.

And sometimes people can come up with creative and useful solutions. If not, I know it's helped me more than once to know that I can post my problems on Hatrack, and people will care. Hugs or no hugs, that's all we want.

Actually, I'm somewhat hurt that you think that your problems have weighed on us. It's not nice to put words in my mouth... I'm saddened that the hug thread didn't really do anything to help you, as well. But the truth of the matter was that behind and beyond the hug thread was a group of people who really cared about each other's problems, who really cared about each other.

Actually, I'm really hurt that you would say something like that. The only reason I do this (((insert name here))) is because I'm helpless to do anything else. That's the best I can do for whoever it is who might be hurting. So even if I can't help, at least they know that I care.

It's fine that you deleted the hug thread, that's your choice... But even if it didn't help you, I know it helped me. Even just knowing that it was there.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
You sensei? What?

Is msakaseg saxon75? I was just kidding about the torture thing.
 

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Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
If a person needs my help, they can put the weight right on my shoulder.
I can handle it.
I'll fight for them through hell and back again.
 

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Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
 
I respect this decision, but I feel guilty that I am sort of glad too.

The hug thread was just way too mushy for me, and the few times I went in there I was sort of weirded out. I'm not entirely sure why.

Cyber hugs don't do anything for me either sadly, and so I never give them or respond to those who give them to me. I mean, I appreciate the sentiment, but to me a few words of sympathy work way better than a bunch of parentheses.

Real hugs on the other hand I am a huge fan of. Well, with females anyway. Guys get pats on the back, unless a maybe a loved one died and I am close to the dude.
 

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Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
 

quote:

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Is msakaseg saxon75?

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Yes.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Why did he change? The saxy confusion finally get to him?
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
You know what's weird? Parenthetical hugs felt good to me. Real hugs, often, do not. I am not a cold fish, but I am not a particularly touchie-feelie person. Sometimes, a real hug is too much.

I used to think I was weird, but I see the same thing in my daughter. My son is very cuddly. I learned that my daughter was not a non-hugger because of me. She was like that even as a baby, and he was cuddly from the start.

Anyway, when I got a few cyber hugs a while back, I was truly startled at how much they helped, and how good they felt.

[ October 06, 2003, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
 

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Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
 
It is not for the apprentice to know all of the motivations of the master... (zen)

(Translation: I don't know... landmark avoidance?)
 

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Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
 
Wow... this I was NOT expecting...

I am, to be frank, in a state of shock. I guess I can understand why you did that, but there were so many people dependent (no, that's not a good word...) people who turned to the hug thread and the hatrackers within for comfort and support when they were maybe unable to receive it otherwise.

I know I, personally, found a LOT of help in (((((Raia)))))... you have no idea what that did for me. And it also helped me so much to hug other people there, to show them I care. If people were uncomfortable by that sort of affection, they didn't post on the thread.

I'm really really sorry you felt this way about it, me (I think, at least) being one of the people who got on it every day and tried to include everyone. I know I used the hug thread as a "support center" where I felt comfortable asking for sympathy. But I guess you felt a little differently about it than I did, and after all, it was your thread to start with.

All I can say is, I'm sorry.
 

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Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
 
I agree with Elizabeth and Raia. Just knowing that someone remembered me and cared about me helped a lot in the times when I was really depressed.

I was wondering, would it be ok with everyone if a thread was started where we could share, not just when we're depressed, but when something good has happened too? Sometimes when I'm really happy I really wanted to share it with people, but it wasn't important enough to have it's own thread.
 

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Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
 
We did have a thread like that... I can't remember the title though...
 

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Posted by porcelain girl (Member # 1080) on :
 
i am not a fan of cyber mush, and i am pretty ambivalent towards (((((( ))))),
but i am just saying that people need other people, sometimes.
it's not a bad thing.
hatrack has served as a haven for many people for a long time, because behinds posts are real people, with real feelings.

i never checked out the hug thread. it's not my thing. but i have been able to post about various events in my life, and was comforted by response.
no reason why that has to change.
 

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Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
 
blacwolve, go for it! I think that the hug thread was kind of like what you described. Don't ask if it's ok with anyone. You have the right to start it and then YOU'LL be in control over it instead of having it just disappear one day...::raises eyebrow::

I don't quite understand why it was deleted, though it's totally T's perrogative. The "I don't want to take part in it" excuse didn't seem to make sense...if I don't want to take part in something here on the forum, I don't read it. It's as simple as that. If cyber mush bothers some people, well, most of you know where it is and how to avoid it. I don't know, I wasn't in the thread very much, but it made me feel better to have a place where I could show people that I cared about them and that I was there if they needed it. It was humbling that people actually trusted us enough to tell us their problems and ask for some support, even if all we could give was ((())) or offer an email address.

I am sad that the whole thing is gone because, like you said, there was good stuff there. The same kind of stuff that prompted a bunch of people to push for an entirely separate section of the forum where our landmark posts could be saved and reread...

[ October 06, 2003, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: Narnia ]
 

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Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
Alright! Now Pat will think you're cool!


 

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Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
 

quote:

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but i am just saying that people need other people, sometimes.
it's not a bad thing.
hatrack has served as a haven for many people for a long time, because behinds posts are real people, with real feelings.

i never checked out the hug thread. it's not my thing. but i have been able to post about various events in my life, and was comforted by response.

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I agree totally, myself being someone who runs to hatrack with problems on a regular basis. One particular thread comes to mind.

I do think it signifigant though that the replies to that thread that I remember were the ones where the poster said a few words to me (I even remember Slash's one word post), and not those who posted (((Xavier))).
 

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Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
 
Icarus and I were talking about it before - that thread was like a subculture.

It was really important to some people, and I was surprised to discover that there were posters whose ENTIRE post history was confined to that one thread.

I found it annoying sappy, too, Pat. But it doesn't matter what I think. It should have stayed up until it broke with the heaviness of overlong threads.
 

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Posted by Erik Slaine (Member # 5583) on :
 
(Day late. Dollar short.)

[ October 06, 2003, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: Erik Slaine ]
 

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Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
 
There are several other subculture threads around here now that I think about it. ::laughs:: That's actually a good name for them.

Erik, your link's dead. Never mind. Icarus subtly pointed it out already.

[ October 06, 2003, 08:36 PM: Message edited by: Narnia ]
 

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Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
*cough*


 

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Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
Narnia: Yeah. If we were going to delete something, delete the stupid last post thread!

[ October 06, 2003, 08:36 PM: Message edited by: Icarus ]
 

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Posted by * (Member # 4842) on :
 
There was something comforting about always seeing the hug thread on the first page
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 


First of all, I totally agree that T has the prerogative to delete any thread he started. I think it's a shame, but if it was causing him pain, I can understand and support his action.

What I do NOT understand, and am really really unhappy about, in this putting down of ((()))s.

So you don't get it. They do nothing for you. Well SO BLOODY WHAT?!

Pat, I think you're a nice guy, but consistently giving T grief about that thread -- it's beneath you.

Xavier, Ralphie, others -- you don't like e-hugs? Fine, I'll put you on my list of people I don't give them to. But how sad that you need to put them down. Yes, this electronic medium puts physical distance between us. But ((()))s are a tiny way to reach across that distance. To those of us who like them, they are a way of saying the sympathetic things that there are no words for.

Perhaps you can say all the things you wish to communicate without them. How wonderful for you.

I cannot.

quote:

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Real hugs on the other hand I am a huge fan of.

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And tell me, please, why real hugs are so wonderful? Because I suggest that most of the possible answers you could come up with apply to ((()))s too -- if only you are willing to see them.

I have probably been giving cyber hugs at least as long as most people here.

Back in the mist of time (12+ years ago), when I was on GEnie's SF&F RoundTable, we had a Hug Topic. And like the thread here, it was a ghetto of sorts. Those of us who frequented it, loved it; the others ignored it or snickered about it.

It had been a long time since I had had a place like that. In fact, the hug thread was one of the reasons I stayed on Hatrack.

I understand that not everyone likes hugs -- electronic or otherwise -- but if you don't, don't rain on those of us who do.

I'm off to the new hug thread. Don't worry, I won't hug the non-ehuggers.
 

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Posted by Zotto! (Member # 4689) on :
 
Holy heck, man. You've destroyed my entire post-history!

It really did help, though, and there really was a lot of good stuff in it. So, thanks for creating it in the first place so I had a place to whine.

I'm not sure where I'm going to post now. I haven't had time to use the 'net for more than a few minutes in MONTHS. That thread was my last resort for letting people know I was alive and that I knew they were alive as well.

Heh, I like the fact that we grew into a subculture on the 'rack. And there ARE a few more.

Well, it was great while it lasted.

Edit: I feel dumb. I told Raia to go make another hug-thread without realizing it had already been created.

[ October 06, 2003, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: Zotto! ]
 

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Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
Hey Zotto! Look up!


 

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Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
 
Rivka, its not like I was calling for the hug threads destruction, and I also never complained when anyone gave me online hugs.

I've decided actually that its not the actual e-hug that I don't care for, but its notation. If someone were to say *hugs Xavier* or better yet "if I was there I'd hug you right now", it would go over better methinks.

But its not like I sit here cursing those who do it the other way.
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
*scratches head in puzzlement* So it's not the hugs, it's the notation? Hmm. I admit, it took me awhile to get used to ((())) instead of the {{{}}} I've used for years, but I see the intent more than the symbol. But hey, that's me.

*hugs Xavier*
 

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Posted by porcelain girl (Member # 1080) on :
 
rivka, i don't think xav or ralphie were actually knocking the hug thread.
while they didn't personally feel the desire to participate, they understood and had consideration for its intentions, as well as the positive benefits of having someone to share the bad days with.

and hey, as long as you aren't a gym teacher trying to feel me arse, i love hugs.

i didn't actually see the criticism of the thread, but i am rather disappointed to hear of it.
sometimes i complain about stuff i really shouldn't, but i try to keep it private.
mayhaps we all take heed of thumper's mom.
 

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Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
Just so you guys don't misinterpret, don't read any of the following with harsh critisism.

quote:

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sorry it became a drain on you...

All I can say is, I'm sorry.

I guess I can understand why you did that,

I don't quite understand why it was deleted,

I think it's a shame, but if it was causing him pain, I can understand and support his action.

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First, don't be sorry. It's not like you had any control over anything. I didn't just delete it because it was a drain on me. Please don't try to understand why it was deleted, because even though I may be incredibly wrong in my thinking of this, you won't understand the reason why.

E-hugs are not a bad thing. In fact, one of the things I consider to be in the top things ever done for me on Hatrack was thread Kat started specifically designed for hugs for me. I never said a word to her about what I was feeling (though, I still suspect someone said something ) but it meant a whole lot to have a random, no reason hug.

In essence, that's what I wanted that hug thread to be originally, just a random hug for people letting them know I cared about everyone and was thankful for them. There was no reason, just a simple honest thank you, I appreciate you. There should be more of that, random appreciation, except for the fact that someone will get left out and hurt. Again, not what I want. Then the hug thread morphed into a turn of events where most of the hugs only happened if you posted in there saying you felt bad. Or at least, that's how I felt.

Again, I may be totally off base here. What matters to me is how I interpreted it. Hugs when feeling bad are not a bad thing. Hugs out of the blue, with a compliment just mean a little more.

Saxy, I know you are my friend. I know that you care and empathize with me, and that there is a need to at least make me feel aware of that care. But that's not what I want. I don't want people to have to sit around thinking about me. Call me a lousy friend, but I don't want my friends to have to worry and get depressed on my part, simply because what they are doing I can't feel. Do I care that they care about me? Yes, and I do appreciate it, but I feel the fact that tomorrow I'm not going to be any more happy is just going to get people to think about me more.

Ryuko, of all post on this thread, yours is what struck me the most. Of all things, I didn't want to hurt you.

quote:

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I was wondering, would it be ok with everyone if a thread was started where we could share, not just when we're depressed, but when something good has happened too? Sometimes when I'm really happy I really wanted to share it with people, but it wasn't important enough to have it's own thread.

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quote:

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I do think it signifigant though that the replies to that thread that I remember were the ones where the poster said a few words to me (I even remember Slash's one word post), and not those who posted (((Xavier))).

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quote:

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I found it annoying sappy, too, Pat. But it doesn't matter what I think. It should have stayed up until it broke with the heaviness of overlong threads.

Pat, I think you're a nice guy, but consistently giving T grief about that thread -- it's beneath you.

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Don't blame Pat. He didn't delete the thread, I did. Do not chalk the deletion of that thread up to critisism. Chalk it up to a crazy, bitterness I've been feeling for all I care.

Most of what I just want to say is, don't wait for someone to say that they are depressed to give them a hug. Look for things that you can appreciate about that person, and hug them and say "I'm glad because of this."

((((Bob)))) Bob, I'm glad your here because you have a sense of humor I really enjoy.

((((celia)))) one of my strongest internet friends... thank you, celia

((((Ralphie)))) Because you are a friendly person who cares about others and encourages them.

((((Emp and Caleb)))) for taking time to listen to a crazy kid rant for a couple of minutes

((((Ryuko and Jebus and Jon Boy and Amka and Narnia and Myr and Annie and tons of others)))) For making life more bearable in your own way.

(((((Mack))))) For being you. Thanks.

((((Saxy)))) For caring about me and for 'the good times'

That's what I wanted the hug thread to be, INCLUDED with a "(((((you)))))- hope you feel better" when needed. But there are so many people that I want to say thanks to, but I can't name them all.

So ya, I expect most of you to tear this post to bits. I don't blame you.

Oh, and Pat...

--|--

I didn't delete it for you or because of you. So stop thinking that I did.

[ October 07, 2003, 04:54 AM: Message edited by: T_Smith ]
 

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Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
 
I'm not saying you shouldn't have deleted, or that I understand why you did, but I do get that it could mean something very different to you than it did to me.

Still this seems like a good time to tell you thanks for having ever started the thread, it was a good thing in my life while it was there, I found some really cool people there, and some of them I really do consider friends, I even found someone there who I am now very close to. Also maybe this is just my experience, but some of the off thread responses to some of my posts there really helped me, they helped alot when I needed help. I hope you don't mind my thanking you, but you have been (even if just indirectly) a very helpful person to me, even if you didn't mean to.

I have to admit, that if it were up to me the thread wouldn't be gone, but it was up to you, and so I'm just going to say thanks, and point out that I feel I got a few random hugs and compliments in.
 

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Posted by Tristan (Member # 1670) on :
 
I am astounded. When I opened this thread I thought it would be a practical joke; that the hug thread had perhaps fallen to page three and T_Smith tried to make everybody scream in horror by pretending to have deleted it. I still thought that after having read T_Smith's initial post, because, as Narnia said, his reasons for deleting the thread did not make much sense at all. After having read the entire thread, I am still not 100 percent convinced that this isn't a joke, but, since either half of you are in on it or T_Smith has managed to dupe a lot of very clever people, I feel sure enough to make an indignant post.

I have never posted in the hug thread and have read it only occasionally. Like Ralphie I found it sappy and like Xavier I prefer a couple of words in sympathy before a paranthesis hug. If T_Smith feels that the hug thread never did anything for him, well, I can respect that.

But deleting it because he felt ticked off when he saw it?!?!

To all you people that so kindly have said that deleting the thread was T_Smith's prerogative, however you personally felt about the decision, well, I disagree. And rather vehemently, at that. Just because the thread starter has the power to do so that does not mean he has the (moral) right to delete a thread for any reason whatsoever. Once the thread has gathered some replies the posters of those have an equal or sometimes even greater stake in the thread's existance.

Obviously many people had invested a lot of time and emotion in the hug thread. If I were one of them I would be VERY upset to have the evidence of this disappearing only because of the thread starter's selfish wish not to want to be associated with it anymore. I would be even angrier if it somehow was deleted "for my own good" or because the thread starter felt the thread had developed beyond what he originally intended.

The ONLY good reason for deleting a whole thread (as opposed to individual posts) I can see is if someone has submitted a post that is so objectionable that the thread starter feels he cannot in good concience wait for the moderators to remove it.

We have had this discussion before concerning some political threads that were deleted and many expressed annoyance with having their carefully thought out posts disappear only because the originator of the thread felt that the discussion did not go the way he wanted. Perhaps the participants in the hug thread did not put an equal amount of intellectual effort into each of their posts on that thread, but the sheer size of it and the emotional stakes in some of the posts makes its deletion to me even worse. That it perhaps contained almost the whole posting history of some people is particularly annoying: what interesting persons have I now missed to get to know because their thoughts are no longer available?

If you feel you've made a mistake by posting a particular post, by all means edit or delete it. THAT is your prerogative. It may under certain circumstances be an annoying thing to do, too, but it is your words. Deleting OTHERS' words is in all but the most exceptional circumstances inconsiderate and selfish and should be avoided.

*Goes to look for the original hug thread in the hope that this is a joke afterall*

Edit: I am worried that I am being too harsh. T_Smith, I recognize that you may have reasons for deleting the thread that seems very valid to you and that I may not fully grasp them all. My rant is not so much directed at you as an attempt to point out the fallacy of the belief that it always is the prerogative of the thread starter to delete a thread, and hopefully get people to think twice before doing so. I believe it was a mistake to delete the hug thread. I could be wrong. I don't however believe you did it with any malicious intent and I hope my strong opposition to thread deletion is not taken personally.

[ October 07, 2003, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: Tristan ]
 

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Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
 
Ahhh, Nate, honeybear. Now I understand better.

I'm still glad I started a new hug thread *unrepentant smiley*, but I get why you extinguished the old one.

(((T)))--where're my hugs and compliments, brat?


 

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Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
 
When I started the Ian McKellan thread I was thrilled to finally get more than one response but then it became more of an embarassment. Now I would definitely kill it if it showed up on the front page. Unless the new reply was a member of the Card family saying they had also had a dream about LOTR. Or something. (swept off in thread popularity fantasies again...)

Still, it's one thing to delete a thread and let folks draw their own conclusions versus starting a new thread saying you *Killed* it. Sounds like a cry for help. (((Nathan))) And while I at first agreed with the idea that cyberhugs are pointless and awkward, I now think there is something real that can happen when two people think of each other round about the same time.

Edit: Where did I think I saw the word "Kill"? Oh well. I'm crazy.

[ October 07, 2003, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: pooka ]
 

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Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
 
Sorry aboutwhat happened to your thread, pooka.

I came into the forum today to check on the hug thread; imagine my shock when I found this thread instead. Let me just say that I can understand why it got deleted, I can see why you did it. However, I don't think that the thread was "burdensome" to most of us. I found that thread very comforting. Even if i wasn't having a bad day, it really cheered me up to find that people thought of me( (((TAK))) ). And when I actually said that I was having a bad time with something, its great to know that people were there for me. I never got tired of trying to cheer other people up, either. In fact, it cheered me up to know I was doing something for someone.

Well, that was just my two cents worth.

((((((All the former hug thread dwellers))))))
 

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Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
 
(((E N))) I don't think it was actually that I was embarassed as much as I got tired of checking on it. I guess I felt responsible, especially with the starting subject being of such questionable nature. I don't know if Nathan felt the same way. I don't have a lot of experience with having my name attached to something.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Can I ask something?

Why were those of you who found the hug thread comforting comforted by it? I mean, we had people who basically posted nowhere ELSE -- but it wasn't like anything particularly deep or moving ever got posted to the hug thread. Was that the appeal, for the people who liked it?
 

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Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
 
Well, pooka, I'm sorry your thread went, um, to the wrong topics. It wasn't my fault though. At least your thread got noticed, mine never do.

TomDavidson - the phrase "it's the thought that counts" is true. It's so comforting to know that someone thought of you. That's the "appeal".
 

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Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
 

quote:

---

it wasn't like anything particularly deep or moving ever got posted to the hug thread.
-TomDavidson

---

You are wrong.

I won't try to explain it to you, maybe you missed the really good posts, the moving and deep ones, maybe you just noticed a bunch of parenthese and didn't read everything. It could be that I am just easily moved by genuine concern, and find people's efforts to help each other or to explain what is wrong so they themselves can find help to be deeper than it really is. And while there were alot of posts that may have said very little, and no where near all the posts on the thread were great earthshattering works, a few were, if the thread were still around I would be pasting in examples.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
"It could be that I am just easily moved by genuine concern...."

*nod* Perhaps that's it. Me, I've never really considered parentheses to be signs of genuine concern. Heck, if I'm actually concerned about somebody, or wish to wish them well with something, I usually E-mail them.

It may just be that those of us who don't consider parentheses to be "genuine" are too cynical, ourselves.
 

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Posted by Vána (Member # 3262) on :
 
Tom (and others), the reason the hug thread was special for me, even though I didn't use it daily (or even sometimes weekly), was that it was a place I could go to specifically and deliberatly support, listen to, and maybe even comfort some people that I don't even know very well. It was a deliberate action taken for someone else's benefit. And, occasionally, I could go in there to vent or complain or just dump, and know that I'd get sympathy. If I'd been looking for a solution to a real problem, I'd probably have asked the community at large. But sometimes you just need someone to tell you it'll be alright. I liked to have that, and I especially liked to do that for others when they needed it. Maybe in part because I do try to solve people's problems a little too much, here in my real, everyday life. But I knew that wasn't what people were looking for in the hug thread, so I knew that just listening was enough, there. I don't know if that all made any sense to anyone else, but those are my thoughts on the matter, anyway.
 

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Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
 
I didn't actually post in the original hug thread (or I don't remember doing so, anyway), but I read it sometimes, and having it on the first page made me happy, like a touchstone, or something? A sort of grounding thing.

That's why I started a new one. Thinking about all of those people thinking about and concerning themselves with the well-being of others, well, it makes humanity more bearable somehow. Even if every person on there is not sincere, it comforts me to believe that they are honestly concerned for their welfare.

And besides, it doesn't hurt anybody. Let it be.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Tom -

I posted a few times to the hug thread, and I know what it's appeal to me was.

E-mail was (is), occasionally, slightly too personal. For very, very personal comfort and rantings, e-mail is best, but the hug thread wasn't the hug of someone who knew me well. It was more of a "the universe will miss me if I was gone" bit. Kind of like going to the beach, shouting to the waves, and the waves affectionately lapping your toes in response. It wasn't huge, but it was a little thing, and there was little required of me. Even an e-mail conversation implies a level of intimacy and action needed on my part that can make too much of a big deal out of a little sorrow, but I could go to the hug thread when I just wanted a quick pat on the head. The slightness and ephemerality of the comfort was part of its appeal.
 

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Posted by Damien (Member # 5611) on :
 
*sigh*

I miss the hug thread.

~D~
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I think there's a new one.

---

Another reason I don't mind it being deleted, though, is so it doesn't turn into a pride thing. You know "How long can we make this?" With shorter, periodically new threads, the only reason to post is concern.
 

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Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
 
Although, in the end, it was just a thread. And how many of you, when you were feeling down, would go back and read all the ((your name)) posts? Most of the posts consisted of "I need a hug" "((soandso))". It shouldn't be that hard to start it up again.

I'm tempted to say that it's just a thread, not a way of life, but I think I might be wrong...

Although, I should say that I'm one of those people who was irked by the thread. And one of the main reasons was that anyone and everyone got "hugged" as soon as the stepped in. It didn't matter what was bugging them, if anything. Having someone write ((every name I can think of)) just doesn't pack a punch for me. It's like those people who say they love everything, hate everything, or the infamous "evil". The words really don't matter anymore.

Or so feels I.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
(((((BobtheLawyer)))))
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
Dang! Kat beat me to it!

But that's never stopped me before . . . (((((BtL)))))

T, I'm sorry the thread didn't turn out the way you expected. I've had a couple of those myself. (((((T_Smith))))) <-- just because.

Tristan, I will respectfully disagree with you, at least as far as this particular thread goes. I would hate for a thread that was all about goodwill and helping people feel better to make anyone feel worse. So if it was doing that for T, then he was justified, I think. So please, please, don't start tearing into him, 'k? (((((Tristan))))) I do tend to agree more with your theory on so-called "serious" or "intellectual" threads.

quote:

---

I mean, we had people who basically posted nowhere ELSE -- but it wasn't like anything particularly deep or moving ever got posted to the hug thread. Was that the appeal, for the people who liked it? (emphasis mine)

---

quote:

---

Heck, if I'm actually concerned about somebody, or wish to wish them well with something, I usually E-mail them.

---

Well, I often did also IM people if I was concerned about them. But I usually knew that they were distressed because they had posted something to the thread. Or that they were over-the-moon happy -- there were posts like that too.

And while the "slightness and ephemerality of the comfort" may have been "part of its appeal" to kat -- and I'm very glad it was (((((kat))))) -- I did not view it as slight or ephemeral.

quote:

---

And how many of you, when you were feeling down, would go back and read all the ((your name)) posts?

---

Um, me. Often. But more, it was knowing that all I had to do to get extra hugs was say I needed them. And that even without asking, I would get many.
 

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Posted by ginette (Member # 852) on :
 
I don't know why, but I do not appreciate this action, T.
It's like saying 'oh well, our dog has died, never mind he was old anyway, no more fun, but you, if you miss him, take a new one'. Or in other words, I was emotionally attached to the hug thread, of course not to the extent of my love for my dogs, but something like that.

A new hug thread will never be the same as the old one. This forum contains mostly threads that only live for a couple of days. But the hug thread was sort of the living room of this family. The common room in the house.

It makes me sad that it's gone. Oh well. I'll get over it.
 

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Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
 
DAMIEN!!!! *tackle hugs Damien*

Welcome BACK!!!!

(And I HAVE been following the discussion, but this is very exciting... I'm still sorry the old thread was deleted, nothing will change that, it meant a lot to me... but hopefully the new one will do SOMETHING to replace the old one, even if it can't really come close...)
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
"But the hug thread was sort of the living room of this family. The common room in the house."

Nope. That's the "Orginal Potry" thread. No contest. If you want, the hug thread can be the bedroom.
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
Nah, the hug thread was the kitchen/breakfast nook.

The cozy room where everyone ends up hanging out, even though there's never enough chairs.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 

quote:

---

Nope. That's the "Orginal Potry" thread. No contest.

---

quote:

---

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope. That's the "Orginal Potry" thread. No contest.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Those days are gone, ole timer. I remember them, but they are gone now.

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quote:

---

Tristan, I will respectfully disagree with you, at least as far as this particular thread goes. I would hate for a thread that was all about goodwill and helping people feel better to make anyone feel worse. So if it was doing that for T, then he was justified, I think. So please, please, don't start tearing into him, 'k? (((((Tristan))))) I do tend to agree more with your theory on so-called "serious" or "intellectual" threads.

---

How do you weigh T_Smith's pain of having the thread remain against the loss to those who wished it to stay? And on what basis do you feel his pain takes precedence?

The thread is gone, and there's nothing to do about that. Since most of the participants seem to take the loss comparatively philosophically I don't feel it behoves me to press the matter. I've said what I wanted to say, so I'll shut up now .
 

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Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
 
T- You get random hugs from people, that's great, I'm happy for you. Not all of us do. I still don't understand why you felt the need to take away the one place on hatrack where everyone was accepted and loved.
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
Well, as one of the most prolific hug-thread posters, I do feel that I can speak on this. And it's not a question of "weighing."

Do I wish the thread were still there, or that we'd had a chance to make copies of some of the posts? Yes.

Am I willing to cause more pain to the person who started a thread I loved, and continued it for quite some time, even when it was clearly a source of discomfort to him? Someone who I happen to like and think is a great guy? Even if we couldn't start a new thread -- no. And since we can, and have -- Definite no.

[ October 07, 2003, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: rivka ]
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
blackwolve, you can search for the thread, find the URL, and change the URL to make it the second page. Deleting the thread only deletes the first page of it.
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
Really, kat?

Ack, nope, it's all gone. Ah, well.
 

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Posted by Damien (Member # 5611) on :
 
((((Raia))))) Hey thanks!


 

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Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
 
get over it.

you people have a new thread. if it isn't as good as the old one, it's your own fault. you made the old one what it was, you'll make the new one what it will be.

if this thread were called "should i delete the hugs thread?" you'd all be well within reason posting what you've posted. as it is, that thread is gone, and badgering t about it isn't going to bring it back. honestly, how selfish are you people that you need to post here?

if i could delete this thread, i would.
 

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Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
 

quote:

---

Kind of like going to the beach, shouting to the waves, and the waves affectionately lapping your toes in response.

---

kat.
Cool. I liked the way you put this.
 

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Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
Celia, I would agree with you that some of the lamentations here have been hyperbolic--the complaints that it will never be the same hug thread or as good, etc.--but your own criticisms are a bit strong.

T started this thread himself. A thread is a discussion. He posted his reasons for deleting the thread. The rest of us have every right to weigh in regarding whether this was an appropriate thing to do or whether his reasons were hogwash.

Did you speak up when somebody posted a thread at GreNME criticizing Hatrackers behind their backs for posting on this thead? Did you speak up when people repeatedly made the implication, here and elsewhere, that everybody in that thread was a bunch of losers wallowing in their self-pity?

I frankly don't think that a thread belongs to the person who originates it. I always hate it when somebody other than a mod deletes a thread, deleting along with it the words and thoughts of dozens of other people. This is not new; I've complained about it before. And the sentiments that have been posted in this thread by some, that basically those posts weren't worth as much as other posts here, show extreme hubris.

I can't for the life of me begin to grasp the thought that the existence of the hug thread was somehow causing T_Smith pain. The only pain I see involved in it was the ribbing by the members of the cool clique of longtime posters here, and it frankly didn't seem like enough to me to warrant deleting the thread with everyone else's posts. As far as I can tell, T_Smith deleted that thread because he didn't like being associated with all of the losers in it.

T had the power to do it, though, and he exercised it. No amount of complaining will bring it back, true enough.

But I think it was a selfish act. And if T doesn't want to hear me saying that, he need not have started this thread, or he need not continue to read it.

Of course, once again, he has the power to delete my words, and the rest of the "you people" that you were addressing, whoever those "you people" may be.
 

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Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
 
ick, i didn't see such a thread at grenme. would i have spoken there if i'd seen it? i don't know. i wouldn't have joined in, though.

i already think i'm taking the high road here. do you really want me to post all of what i think?

my "you" includes the people complaining, and the people belittling the people complaining. that is a whole set of posts which no purpose but to hurt.

and t, while i'm sure you ment this thread to be an announcment and not a discussion, you shouldn't have started it.

[ October 07, 2003, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: celia60 ]
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Patrick...

You have a wife, four kids, and a loving extended family that adores you. Many of the people posting in the thread, who were dependent on it, don't have the same. It is definitely better to have the real thing rather than online, but many of the people, it isn't a manner of turning off the computer and heading into the living to be tackled by the extended family. For some people, turning off the computer means an echo of silence and some staring out the window. This can be for lots of reasons, and some of them are not uncondemnable, but I'm thinking that if something is important to someone, it is cruel to take it away unless you either (1) know they'll be okay without it, or (2) know there's a replacement for it.

(1) you don't know for everyone. Maybe true for some, but not necessarily true for all. And (2)... well, you're not volunteering, and the thread isn't hurting you. Why take it away like that? If it is a transition that is needed, does that mean you're going to explain it and help? Because otherwise you're just letting someone drown because they need to learn to swim. Lots will learn to swim, and some may not have learned any other way, but some drown.
 

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Posted by Pat (Member # 879) on :
 
You're right kat.


 

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Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
What is bothering me is the assumption by everyone that they know exactly what everyone in the thread was like. This is the stereotype I keep hearing over and over. And of course, stereotypes exist because there is truth to them. But it seems to have become OK lately for Hatrackers to dismiss a whole group of people as having no life, as being pathetic, as needing to get off of their computers and find some real people to hug. (Considering that we're all people who devote what may be an excessive amount of time to an online forum, that seems rather like the pot calling the kettle black!)

Did I think there were some things wrong with the hug thread? Yeah. I did. I also, though, thought there were some things profoundly right with the hug thread. And it can be recreated and it can exist again. But I perceive an insult in the jibes that have been made over and over again for months, gently at first but lately with ever-increasing insistence. It's a heck of a thing for us to conclude that a whole group of Hatrackers has no life because they get off on things that we don't get off on, especially considering that I know people who would say exactly the same things about all of us.

I dunno. It just seems kinda like . . . high school.
 

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Posted by Pat (Member # 879) on :
 

quote:

---

(Considering that we're all people who devote what may be an excessive amount of time to an online forum, that seems rather like the pot calling the kettle black!)

---

I spend time at Hatrack during my down time at work, which can be a lot at times.

I do not have an internet connection at home, because I have made a conscious effort to not let the internet infringe on my 'real' time.

Listen, I'm sorry if I've offended people who are tied to that thread. I'm not trying to belittle anyone.

I DO stand firmly by my view that there is such a thing as spending too much time on the internet. To me, it's wrong to be emotionally attached to ANYTHING on the internet. But that is my view, and frankly, I don't really care if you think it's bunk or not.

Kat -- If I have a wife, four children and countless other family members it wasn't because I was born into it. If anything, I was destined to be a big time loser in life. The fact I've become something more is due to a lot of hard work, dedication, prayer and hard work.


 

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Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
(I think a big problem on the internet is that we are unable to hear the tone of each other's voices. In my last post here and, to a greater extent, in this one, I am attempting to ratchet down my own rhetoric and discuss why some of us feel as we do about this situation. I'm doing this, Pat, because I would like to engage in a calm conversation about this specifically with you. So as you read it, please imagine it in a calm tone of voice. )

quote:

---

I DO stand firmly by my view that there is such a thing as spending too much time on the internet.

---

quote:

---

To me, it's wrong to be emotionally attached to ANYTHING on the internet. But that is my view, and frankly, I don't really care if you think it's bunk or not.

---

quote:

---

let me just tie it up by saying that I don't think it's invariably wrong to form emotional attachments here. There are people here who are very special to me. That doesn't mean that I don't have physical people in my real life, like my wife, my two children, my father, or my non-virtual friends, who are also special to me. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive.

---

quote:

---

To me, it seems to be a suggestion that, if you saw value in the hug thread, you must be one of those people who spends too much time online. If you post in some threads, you have a life, but if you post in others, it's evidence that you do not.

---

I still think it's weird that people get up in arms about the deletion of words of text. Like celia said, there is a thread back there for everyone to hug everyone else on. Move on... go type all the (((((('s you want.

Obviously, my attempt to poke fun, and ask questions at the same time was off the mark, and for that I apologize.
 

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Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
I'm such a dork that I'm not sure if your first paragraph is a joke or not. :-p

If it's not a set-up, I'm deeply flattered.

My name is Joe.

Some of my favorite interactions at Hatrack have been with people I frequently disagree with, with whom I have come to feel a sense of mutual respect for where the other person is coming from. In these interactions, I know that each of us accepts that the other person is thoughtful and intelligent, and so we are each intrigued by getting to the root of how two such people could disagree. I feel like I am challenged most by and learn the most from these people.

(Interestingly enough, these relationships all seem to have "moved beyond being an annoyance to someone I genuinely care about.")

My posts to and about you on this thread have not been, on the whole, respectful, and for that I apologize. Same goes for Nate, for that matter. I won't try to explain it away, because that would mitigate my apology and make it less sincere. I know that you are a thoughtful and intelligent person, and I want to understand your point of view, and communicate to you mine, and find common ground.

-o-

I don't think "poking fun" or asking questions are inappropriate, or things that you need to apologize for. (I also would hate to think that you're apologizing because I've worn you down into submission. My friends tell me this is why I always win at Monopoly: eventually they take my trades just to shut me the heck up! )

I think the issue here (at least for me) is not with your poking fun or asking questions. My concern is that some people--not necessarily you--ask these questions with the answers already firmly in mind. And so my objection was not so much to the deletion per se--and as you say, there already is a replacement thread--and it is not out of a frustrated desire to type and receive ((()))s. Rather, it's with what I perceive as the dismissal of the people involved with a label and with corresponding generalizations.

(And once again, this post is not intended to chastise anybody or jump on anybody, but to work through my own feelings on this topic, because this thread did touch off a reaction in me. I'm trying to figure out why it irritated me so, and keeping my fingers crossed that, when the smoke clears, I will not have alienated anybody beyond the ability to be my friend.)
 

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Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
 
I never opened the hug thread. I'm no sure why. Perhaps it is because I am at some level a very private person. Except under very unusual circumstances, there are only two or three people in the world I bare my soul too when I am coming apart at the seems and need a hug.
 

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Posted by Pat (Member # 879) on :
 
I meant it Joe. I'm not afraid to apologize when someone points out a fault of mine. They way I see it, it's the best way to learn, the best way to grow.

I'm still going to taunt you, though.

I've always had an adversarial relationship with the patrons of the hug thread. I was probably out of line tonight with my comments I deleted. And I apologize again.
 

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Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 

quote:

---

I'm still going to taunt you, though.

---

Actually, I was very flattered when you slammed my "Nags" thread out of the blue! Usually, I have to ask you to rag on me!



Guess I'd better go stock up on more examples of failed threads of yours . . .
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I've been thinking about this, and I think the hug thread is important for many reasons. Patrick, I believe you when you say it is work that has gotten you the blessings that allow you to not need online interaction.

And so I was thinking, why is it sometimes very important to people to accept the online substitute for a hug? Well, because sometimes it can be a model. *thinks* How do I put this...

Any action requires a degree of faith that the action will have a result. The classic church example is planting a field in faith the seeds will grow. For some people, reaching out in the real world requires a degree of faith that people will return the affection that they do not possess, and since reaching out to other humans requires placing faith in humans (as opposed to the Lord), sometimes that faith indeed isn't justified. For whatever reason, the real world isn't working for them, and faith can disappear that it ever could.

I think one of the incredible benefits of online interaction is that it can be a model or a practice for the real world. It can also be a crutch and loop, but I suppose any kind of school can be.

In other words, in the absence of unconditional love around them, it can be very important to have a place where unconditional love is modeled, if only to inspire faith that reaching out in the real world can be worth it. It's like hope, and hope is cheesy and gooey and downright embarrassing sometimes, especially when you don't need it, but I still think that anyone who mocks or condemns is being heartless unless they also provide a hand for change.

[ October 08, 2003, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
 

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Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 
((((T_Smith))))

Well...I feel better anyway...
 

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Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
 
Well, I think this thread just proves that the Hug thread was way bigger than any of us...
 

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Posted by LadyDove (Member # 3000) on :
 
I only looked at the hug thread once. ::shrugs::
I suppose I'm a bit of a pill because I felt that "everyone is doing this", so it wasn't for me.

When I share my concern and compassion I give my most limited asset, time. For me, that caring just isn't real unless it costs me time.

Also, like T said, the thread seemed a bit of a downer. Seeing so many hurting made me feel guilty for not spending the time to get to know the problems and attempting to help.

As far as the reality of cyber hugs goes? ::shrugs:: As long as the person giving them is also sending out strong, positive, healing energy toward the recipient, I'd say that the kinetic energy (maybe a better word is aiua or philote) is real and is part of what has created the community of Makers that we are.
 

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Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
 
rivka - I never said I didn't like e-hugs. I said I thought the thread was sappy, but that it had become a sub-culture, and very important to people, so therefore should have been kept alive until it died it's own death.

I'm not sure how that amounts to "Ralphie doesn't like e-hugs."
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
Actually, Ralphie, you called it "annoyingly sappy." But I did overreact, and I apologize. *scratches Ralphie off mental don't-hug list* Ouch!
 

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Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
 
Just to be annoying....
((((((Everyone on "do not hug list")))))))
(insert devil smiley here)
 

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Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
You know, we do have an actual devil smiley you could use.

Of course, you'd know that if you ever posted outside of the hug thread.
 

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Posted by Pat (Member # 879) on :
 
And Icarus moves up another point on the Pat respectability scale.
 

---

Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
--|--
 

---

Posted by Pat (Member # 879) on :
 
and another....
 

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Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
 
::seconds that::

[edit: I was responding to --|--]

[ October 09, 2003, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: Narnia ]
 

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Posted by Pat (Member # 879) on :
 
Icarus, I'm thinking you might just supplant Jon Boy as my Minion-in-chief if you keep it up. .
 

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Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
(((((Pat)))))


 

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Posted by Pat (Member # 879) on :
 
And now you blew it.

Man... we could have been great together.

Your loss.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Jon Boy is going to be so hurt.
 

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Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
*gasp*

Nate was right! Pat threatened to replace me!

Et tu, Pat?
 

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Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
You know, I probably should have kept quiet about this and tried to drive the Pat-Jon wedge a little deeper.
 

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Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
 
I was looking for whatever is the current iteration of the hug thread and found this. Oh well.

(((Puffy)))
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
So you bumped it? Really, pooka, why?!?

Sometimes I get the feeling you like pouring fuel on the fire.
 

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Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
Seriously.
 

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