I admit, it's been a while since I've looked at the Foobonic photos. But I'm under the impression that asians are a distinct minority among jatraqueros. Who are you, anyhow! *peers out*
I want to hear what your experiences were like, growing up. I've written about mine elsewhere, but I can re-relate in a bit. Were your parents born in the US or abroad (or do you live in another country?)? How did you feel different from other people? Do you feel close to your "heritage?" expound as much as you'd like on whatever topics are close to your heart.
I believe the first realization I had that my experiences were not unique but a part of a larger Second Generation* culture when I read Amy Tan's Joy Luck Club in middle school.
*second generation, right? i never get this right. first gen? second gen? my parents were born in S.Korea, I was born in the US...
** ps. I'm not excluding non-Asians, I'm just particularly interested in asian-experience. all others feel free to share and explore.
Posted by BYuCnslr (Member # 1857) on :
My parents are from Taiwan, I'm born in Hacienda Heights, California. Move to Kansas City, Kansas; Indinapolis, Indiana; Carmel, Indiana; Ottawa, Canada; Carmel, Indiana; Canby, Oregon; and now college in Beloit, Wisconsin. All in all, I've always lived in white, majority neighborhoods...so...I sorta feel like a banana, yellow on the outside, white on the inside, :: giggles :: Satyagraha
Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
wow that's a lot of moves.
in college, do you avoid the Asian American Associations?
Posted by Hi (Member # 5289) on :
Hi Suneun,
I'm a first (Second?) generation Asian/Chinese American. My parents came here to the U.S. in their early twenties from Cambodia. They went through war, worked at labor camps during their teens, saw their friends and family die (my dad lost his entire family and my mother lost her father and oldest brother) left and right.
So you can imagine how different their early lives were compared to mine.
I was born in Los Angeles County. I actually grew up in El Monte- in an area where the population was at the time, around 90% Hispanic. I have really fond memories of those times. Yes, I was a minority, but I was never really aware of it as a child.
The school district that I have been going to for the past six years, is over 50% Asian- so obviously I don't feel all that different.
I can relate to Amy Tan's books but only to an extent. I think times are changing and the culture of second (or first?) generation asian is not quite as similiar as it use to be. Unlike the characters in Amy Tan's book, I have yet to meet an Asian where I live nowadays to be ashamed of their culture, parents, or heritage.
Posted by Zotto! (Member # 4689) on :
My last girlfriend was Chinese and I'm reading 'The Joy Luck Club'...
[ February 13, 2004, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: Zotto! ]
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
At first glance, I thought this thread was directed at me.
Then I opened it, was very for a sec, then said "Oh ASians. As in with an S."
Posted by BYuCnslr (Member # 1857) on :
Actually, my school is too small to have a Asian American club, we're total 1200 students, and we actually have more foreign/exchange students that are actually from China (large international population) than there are natural born asian citizens. Satyagraha
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
Speaking of foobonic photos....what's the link for them??
I've lost it. Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
Well briefly, I went to almost all-white private schools for my education, so early on I didn't identify as Korean in a cultural sense. My parents didn't try very hard to get me fluent in Korean, so I have only picked up rudimentary language from them. So I guess in a lot of external ways, my culture has been Priviledged Caucasian American. In the home, however, life was very stereotypical for a 2nd gen kid. Strict curfew, lots of studying, no dating, a musical instrument, and very little sports. My parents and I aren't close in the talk-about-our-lives way. For example, what my parents knew about my life as an undergraduate at Brown could probably be said in three sentences. (I was a Biology and Religious Studies double major. I had a friend named "Rebecca" who was a pre-med like me. I took classes and did fine in them.)
Posted by BYuCnslr (Member # 1857) on :
My family was never "huggy" close either. I played the piano until 3rd grade (forced to), and have played the violin (by my choice) since 5th grade. My parents divorced when I was in 3rd grade. I had a lot of studying, my father tried to do as much as he could for my education...pushing me towards engineering...he's still sad that I didn't go for computer science...of which I'm a certified technician...but now I'm at a small liberal arts school debating on a poli sci/philosophy double major . Both my parents are still trying to push me towards a major that will "actually make money" but...meh. Satyagraha
Posted by Mintieman (Member # 4620) on :
I'm a first generation korean, I guess, but I've lived most of my life in western culture, moving to New Zealand when I was four, and now to Australia, a couple of years ago, (I'm 16 at the moment.)
My parents were born in Korea, but they've always been progressive, so I don't feel like I've ever been limited in the way that stereotypical korean parents tend to do, studying and so forth wasn't forced on me, although I did piano for a couple of years.
Being the only asian kid at my school a few times in New Zealand made me feel a fair bit different to the other kids, but they accepted me quickly enough, and apart from the few annoying racist kids that you always encounter, I had a pretty good childhood uptil now.
I've somehow been able to stay fluent in korean, well enough to read books that aren't too technical, and talk with people freely, and although I dont identify with the culture as much as my parents would like me to, I do know it all well, because of the not so subtle teaching that was given to me
Now that I'm in australia, and there are lots of asian kids around, it actually seems a bit odd to me
I relate mostly to the customs I've become used to that's korean, I adore the food, and since going back last year for a visit, I've become fond of the attitude, and general language used, although the higher language for elders and stuff still irks me.
I haven't read the Joy luck Club Posted by esl (Member # 3143) on :
I haven't read Amy Tan either! I didn't know much about it, but now I'm interested. *adds Joy Luck Club to mental list of books to read*
I'm Chinese, born in San Francisco. My parents are from Hong Kong and China. I've been there a few times, very fun.. I'm okay with the culture. My parents have never really told me what's Chinese and what's not. I've grown up speaking and eating Chinese. The only holidays I know are the ones we have a big family get-together for. My friend just informed me of White Day, which I hadn't heard of before, so I'm sure there are many more.
I was in Chinese school and studied piano until I graduated from high school. So my Chinese is okay. My brother knows more because some of the people he hangs out with are from Hong Kong. Still, I feel 'closer' to my heritage than the majority of Chinese born in the Unites States, or outside of China, based on my knowing more people like me who don't speak the language than those who do.
And since I grew up in San Francisco, I've hardly ever felt different. My schools and friends were predominantly Asian..
Suneun, from what I've googled, first and second generation are both used for people like you and me. Personally, I think I'm first generation. And "re-relate" is a great word!
[ February 13, 2004, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: esl ]
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Both my Japanese and European ancestors have been in the United States a long time. I'm 4th/5th generation on the Japanese side, hence the nickname. Like Bernard (BYuCnslr) I've lived in a primarily white area for most of my life. I guess you could consider me culturally white since I don't really feel connected to the Asian community. Additionally, some people think I'm white when they see me. I've also been mistake for Middle Eastern, Greek, and Native American. Only other hapas (Asian/something else mix) or those who are around hapas a lot can tell that I'm hapa.
The one area where I am somewhat Asian is food. Mom often cooks Japanese and Chinese dishes. She never ate baked potatoes and Dad never ate rice until they met each other. Or something like that.
I'm also like the stereotypical Asian in that I usually get high grades in the math and science areas. Though I think that has less to do with my race and more to do with being the child of two engineers.
As a side note, my grandpa fought in the 442nd during WWII. It was an entire regiment made up of only Japanese-Americans. There are some very interesting stories about that unit...
[ February 13, 2004, 02:41 AM: Message edited by: Shigosei ]
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
quote: can tell that I'm hapa
I have absolutely never heard of the term hapa. Guess I learned something new today by listening to all of you!
FG
Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
Farmgirl, I'd never heard of it until Tuesday night when I attended the Activities Fair for my undergrad. I asked someone else what it meant: Half-Asian, Part-Asian.
Shruuuuug!
Thanks for all the stories, it's really amazing to hear how everyone grew up. I definitely understand about identifying more as white than as asian. It's kinda strange, sometimes.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Very cool thread, Suneun. From my Midwest perspective, it's a welcome window into a bit of a forbidden topic. The "minority that isn't a minority" stereotype, the "perfect minority," you know?
The American culture has a long history of literature about what it is to be African-American here, or Latino (though somewhat less extensive a genre), or even of Native American descent. Until Amy Tan, there was little to read on the experience of Asian Americans here, except for Maxine Hong Kingston's The Woman Warrior: Memoirs of a Girlhood Among Ghosts. (Have you read this? You might like it, although I understand it is somewhat dated now, maybe out-of-print).
Then there came the plethora of speculative fiction about what would happen in an "Asianized" future -- but it was almost taboo to talk about the here and now. Anyway, I'm enjoying the read, and I appreciate your inclusive message in the beginning. Posted by Azile (Member # 2312) on :
(This is "Hi" by the way, I just decided that I should stick with this name for now.)
I think it simply depends on how you grow up, which culture you indentify more with. One of my cousins grew up in a school that was predominately white, and when she moved to an 90% asian school, most of her friends were still white. The same goes for another distant cousin of mine. She grew up in Atlanta, Georgia and when her mother died, she moved to California where all her friends were, although they were very much a minority, predominately black (she's dark skinned and actually told all her friends at one point, that she was half-black). I know a number of people, also, who grew up in a largely asian community and identified more with them as well.
I've had really only a handful of caucasian friends, now that I think of it. My school is about 40%-30% white, but it's very self segregated. Friends who I have been with in the past, were predominately asian or hispanic- but even with the few caucasian friends I had, I have only been close to one of them. Recently, I've had more exposure to caucasian people and have come to realize one thing: they're very friendly and open people.
I grew up, aside from what I saw on TV oblivious to typical American culture. I use to think that everyone didn't wear shoes in their house and that it wasn't unusual for people hang their clothes out on the line to dry. My family is far from poor now, but we still continue to do this. The same thing goes for my relatives and friends. Heh.
--- On the topic of hugs. Most first generation asians are actually okay with it. Me on the other hand, I always stiffen up when someone hugs me. I always appreciate the gesture but at the same time I'm uncomfortable with being touched.
I grew up in an extremely loving family but ah- we don't hug!
[ February 13, 2004, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: Azile ]
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
My grandma (the one who thought I shouldn't marry a white guy) read The Joy Luck Club before it was a movie. She said "The more I read, the weirder it gets." I did see the movie, and later read the book. I thought the changes they made were very odd. While the movie was less contraversial as a result, it was more horrifying to me. I guess the idea that a woman would experience recurring mental distress over having an abortion is non-PC.
But before the thread gets off track, has anyone been to modelminority.com? I went there once and it seemed kind of interesting, but it's not really what I'm about. I guess having married white, my kids are mostly white. My two daughters pass for white, my son does not. But Keanu Reeves is half hawaiian. Does anyone else think he looks asian?
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Her name is Adrian.
[Edit: pooka, you are absolutely lovely. What a gorgeous smile!]
[ February 13, 2004, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I'm pretty sure Keanu Reeves has some asian on the other side, although just a bit.
quote: Father part Chinese part Hawaiian, Mother English.
[ February 13, 2004, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: PSI Teleport ]
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
"Hapa" is a Japanese word that sort of translates to "half-breed." It was originally a derogatory term used by pure Japanese and Japanese-Americans about the mixed-heritage people in their communities. It's not completely well-known, but culturally Japanese people are often known for being quite racist. I remember once when I was a kid, visiting Japantown in San Francisco I saw a flyer tacked to a telephone pole advertising a community forum about the growing hapa problem. That definitely made me feel weird. I think it's interesting and kind of cool how the hapa community (if there is such a thing) has more recently embraced the term, in much the same way that the homosexual community has made the term "queer" their own.
Just to make sure we're all on the same page, the "nth-generation" thing works like this: the first generation is the generation that immigrated to the country, and the numbers increase from there. Depending on how you look at it, I'm either 3rd-generation (sansei), 4th-generation (yonsei), or 5th-generation (gosei) Japanese-American, because my mother's mother was born in Japan (issei), but my father's father and mother were second-generation (nisei) and third-generation, respectively. Alternatively, you could say that I'm a big ol' whitey, since my mom's dad was mostly English and born in Arkansas.
I grew up in a very Caucasian area. Off the top of my head I can only think of 9 Asians out of about 700, including me, that went to my high school. Most of my friends are, and have always been, Caucasian. In fact, almost all of the Asian people I'm close to are related to me. My dad's family has been here long enough that they are very American in culture, and my mom's family is kind of like that as well because of my grandfather. I find that my worldview aligns much more closely with those of the Caucasian people I know than the other Asians. Still, there is some amount of Japanese cultural influence in my family. We all appreciate Japanese food, we tend to have a very Japanese work ethic, and there is a lot of emphasis placed on family and face.
I've always felt a little out of place wherever I go. On the one hand, I strongly identify with my Japanese heritage. Partially this is because I look Japanese, and this has meant that other people have always treated me that way, at least initially. But it's also because I'm very interested in Japan, Japanese culture and Japanese-American culture. Despite all of that, though, I often feel uncomfortable around other Asians, as though I'm being judged poorly for not being true to my roots. My wife and I often go to the Japanese market for lunch and for groceries; they have a great food court there and carry a lot of stuff you just can't get at Albertson's. But it's always a little weird for me. I don't speak Japanese, so I'm always worried that someone will start talking to me and I won't know what they're saying. Even more, I get paranoid that people are looking down on me for marrying a Caucasian woman or even for just being hapa. It doesn't change my feelings for my wife, who I love dearly, or change who I am, but it still affects me when I think people are looking at me funny.
On the other hand, I feel a very deep connection to America. It's a visceral thing; I don't feel normal when I'm outside the country. To a lesser extent I also feel strange when outside California. I feel a much closer connection to people like Washington and Jefferson than I ever have to historical Japanese figures. And I feel comfortable around Caucasians. For most of my friends, I don't think they've even really seen me as Japanese for a long time. I'm just me. Still, from time to time I do feel out of place among white people. I've had far too many people spit on me or hit me or call me a Chink or Jap for that to ever completely go away.
Regarding the hugging thing: I'm the oddball in my family. They all hug, but I'm not much of a hugger, except with my wife. I'm not sure why that is, but apparently it started when I Was pretty young. Maybe it has something to do with my parents getting divorced or something, or some other childhood trauma that I don't remember. Who knows?
quote:I guess you could consider me culturally white since I don't really feel connected to the Asian community. Additionally, some people think I'm white when they see me. I've also been mistake for Middle Eastern, Greek, and Native American. Only other hapas (Asian/something else mix) or those who are around hapas a lot can tell that I'm hapa.
Shigosei, are you half-Japanese? I've noticed that a lot of people who are half-half tend to get this. My mom's often mistaken for being Mexican. My half-brother also doesn't look all that Japanese, though I think it would be difficult to say what he does look like. People who are less than half are often hard to tell even with other hapa. My cousin Kenji is a quarter Japanese and he's 6'6" and looks totally white. Same thing for this girl Tsuyeko that used to work at my father-in-law's restaurant (well, except for the 6'6" part).
I've also noticed a weird trend with part-Asian siblings. This is totally anecdotal, but in every family I've ever seen, the younger the sibling, the less Asian they look. For example, my mom's older sister looks quite Japanese, while my mom looks sort of Japanese, and her younger sister looks very Caucasian. It's not very scientific, but I have yet to see a counterexample.
quote:As a side note, my grandpa fought in the 442nd during WWII. It was an entire regiment made up of only Japanese-Americans. There are some very interesting stories about that unit...
My grandfather was also in the 442. 2nd Battalion, Company F. And I agree, there are a lot of interesting stories. It remains the most highly decorated unit for its size and length of service in the history of the US. My grandpa recently donated his medals and uniform to the National Steinbeck Center; they're part of the Agricultural History wing now.
The most interesting thing to me about the 442 was that so many of the soldiers volunteered straight from the internment camps. It has always totally blown me away that they would do that.
Wow, so that was way longer than I thought it would be. Thanks for reading this far, if you did. If you didn't, and you just skipped to the end, then you get no thanks from me. Move along.
[ February 13, 2004, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: saxon75 ]
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Baka.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Still, from time to time I do feel out of place among white people. I've had far too many people spit on me or hit me or call me a Chink or Jap for that to ever completely go away.
That is so unspeakably, unbelievably sucky.
quote:The most interesting thing to me about the 442 was that so many of the soldiers volunteered straight from the internment camps. It has always totally blown me away that they would do that.
Yeah, me too.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Hey yeah saxon, I noticed that about people who are half-Japanese. I know a guy that I thought for sure was Mexican. Except that is eyes were more asian. But I found out his last name was Okimoto and he spoke Japanese, and THEN I heard him talking about "Hawaiian Pride" or something like that. Now I don't know the heck he is!
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
CT, to be fair, I'm pretty sure that the actual reason people picked on me is because I was an arrogant jerk who was also small and didn't fight back. But enough of them also put the words on top of the actions that the feeling stuck. Fortunately, I'm not nearly as much of a butthead as I used to be. Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Paula, most likely he is half-Japanese and from Hawaii. There are a whole lot of Japanese in Hawaii, enough that they're not really much of a minority there. In fact, the 442nd RCT was a descendant of the 100th Battalion of the Hawaiian National Guard, an all nisei group.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Yeah, I've met alot of people from there with Japanese last names.
They're my "Special Ethnic Group" of the day. Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
There was a paper on race that described Japanese as being the most asian of the asian clines. Whatever.
My theory is that daughters favor the father, whatever his race is, and sons favor the mother because they literally get more DNA from one or the other. That's how they can sort sperm using a centrifuge. Though now that I think about it, my younger daughter and my youngest sister are the most white of their families. Maybe it depends on how long you have been eating the American Devils' food. I'm far and away the most asian and I'm right in the middle. Kind of weird to talk about.
I think the use of hapa for self-identification caught on in Hawaii. I think it was hapa haoli, which is funny in that haoli means white. So while we are often called half-asian here, there the whiteness is the thing worth remarking on.
Posted by Azile (Member # 2312) on :
There's a number of half-asians where I live, and one connection I've made is that they're almost always very pretty/handsome.
I have a baby cousin in Australia whose half Asian and Polish and he has just the hugest pair of eyes.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Saxon, I am indeed half-Japanese, half-white. My younger siblings also seem to look less Asian than I do. Mr. Funny has much lighter hair than me, while our non-Jatraquero brother Craig is inbetween in both age and looks. Funny does have darker eyes than I, though. Craig once told one of his friends that he was half-Japanese. His friend replied, "No you're not!" What I think is strange is that I looked more Asian when I was younger. The slant in my eyes was more pronounced, and my hair was darker and straighter (I have very wavy hair now, which throws people off, I think.)
Picture of my family (warning! large file): from left to right, Craig, Dad, me, Mom, Mr. Funny. He can tell you his real name if he wants to.
Grandpa was in the 522nd Battalion. The artillery guys. He took a radio out behind enemy lines to tell the artillery where to aim. I hear he also helped liberate a Nazi death camp. That must have been horrifying.
By the way, my grandparents lived in Hawaii, so they weren't interned.
[ February 13, 2004, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: Shigosei ]
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
I guess technically my grandfather was never interned, either. He was drafted just before Pearl Harbor and so was already in the military at that point. So he never technically went to an internment camp. What did happen was that the Army rounded up all of the Japanese guys at his base and made them live in a barn a little ways off-base. After that, but before the 442, he was reassigned to the east coast as a mail clerk. The rest of my relatives that were around at that time went to the internment camp in Poston, AZ.
By the way, your mom looks a little bit like my mom's older sister.
Posted by esl (Member # 3143) on :
Saxon, I thought of this when I read about your worrying someone would speak Japanese with you. When I'm buying something in Chinatown, the seller always speaks English with me if I don't say something in Cantonese first. I guess I look more ABC (American Born Chinese) then I look like I'm from Hong Kong. Knowing your point of view, I now understand more of why they might speak English, but a lot of the time it annoys me to no end. When people do that, I feel like they don't think I know how to speak Cantonese, and it's semi-offensive. The worst is when my relatives do that to me. If that happens, I try to respond in Chinese until they get the point, or we have a very interesting conversation with one person speaking English and the other, Chinese. With non-relatives, I think I generally get embarrased and say whatever's appropriate in English and leave. That's my shy nature coming out.
Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
Another related topic... I've always dated caucasians, likely because they're the people I've been surrounded by. There's the pretty common comment about "asian fetish" and boyfriends of mine "preferring asian girlfriends" etc. It's never particularly bothered me, because I don't see offense to having a preference in appearance-type. Anyone else come across this?
Posted by esl (Member # 3143) on :
My good friend is a white guy who makes friends easily. Most of them are female and Asian. That the only example I can think of, maybe more later.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
My husband said his brother had an asian fetish, so it was strange that he didn't marry an asian. The first time I saw a photo of Laura Bush I was reminded of the woman he did wind up marrying. My sister married a guy with an asian fetish, but that was the least of his problems. But I think petiteness is part of the fetish, which doesn't really apply to me.
Oh, I keep forgetting to say that in November I remarked that I think there are more asians in the active population of Hatrack than in the general population. It was after I saw the pictures of Mr. Funny and Shigosei at the Crystal City signing.
[ February 13, 2004, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: pooka ]
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
esl, I don't think that I've ever even considered the opposite of my problem. I guess with me it's a (kind of silly) feeling of guilt about not being Asian enough, where with you it's an annoyance that people don't treat you as Asian as you are.
Suneun, I've only ever dated Caucasian women, which is mostly because that's who I've been around. I've noticed that, while I see Caucasian men with Asian women all the time, I very rarely see Asian men with Caucasian women. My mom thinks this is more a man thing than an Asian thing though; she thinks most men won't be with a woman taller than he is. However, since Asian-American men get taller with every generation and I have still seen very few couples like that, I'm more inclined to think it's a cultural thing.
Posted by Mr.Funny (Member # 4467) on :
quote: Both my Japanese and European ancestors have been in the United States a long time. I'm 4th/5th generation on the Japanese side, hence the nickname. Like Bernard (BYuCnslr) I've lived in a primarily white area for most of my life. I guess you could consider me culturally white since I don't really feel connected to the Asian community. Additionally, some people think I'm white when they see me. I've also been mistake for Middle Eastern, Greek, and Native American. Only other hapas (Asian/something else mix) or those who are around hapas a lot can tell that I'm hapa.
The one area where I am somewhat Asian is food. Mom often cooks Japanese and Chinese dishes. She never ate baked potatoes and Dad never ate rice until they met each other. Or something like that.
I'm also like the stereotypical Asian in that I usually get high grades in the math and science areas. Though I think that has less to do with my race and more to do with being the child of two engineers.
As a side note, my grandpa fought in the 442nd during WWII. It was an entire regiment made up of only Japanese-Americans. There are some very interesting stories about that unit...
Wow! This is like, exactly the same for me! Oh, wait. It was posted by my sister . And Shigosei, stop lying. You get good grades in EVERYTHING.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote: There's a number of half-asians where I live, and one connection I've made is that they're almost always very pretty/handsome.
I think this holds true for most every mixed ethnicity combination. An example of a beautiful Asian-Euro (dutch) mix would be Kristen Kruek.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Not to mention Dean Cain . . . Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
Isn't Keanu Reeves some kind of mix that includes Asian?
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Marek: See PSI's comment about twenty posts up (with link). Posted by porcelain girl (Member # 1080) on :
pod (who used to be a *much* more regular poster) is half chinese. his dad is chinese and his mom is caucasian. he is also very good looking.
nndraa is half korean and half caucasian, and extremely beautiful. i enjoyed going to the korean market with her because she was right about old korean ladies showing brief suprise when sandy started speaking very good korean to them.
i am enjoying this thread, i am always interested in hearing how people's ehtnic background, culture, and upbringing influenced their life experience. it is interesting, i think in america now ethnicity has much less to do with skin color and physical characteristics as it does with which culture you have chosen to identify with, because people are mixing more and more with every generation.
Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
Here's yet-another related topic...
I often find myself in very white groups/activities. It's, interesting. For example, when I find myself among SCA folk (Society for Creative Anachronism), or a Ren Faire, I'm almost always the only asian person around. It's a very White-oriented hobby. The Goth scene is also almost all caucasian. Pagans, when I used to bum around with them a little, are almost all white.
I don't mind, I guess. But it's sort of funny, how I seem to stand out through appearance.
Funny story (which I related at some point before): For a med school ceremony in which many parents were attending, I decided to dress up. My parents weren't coming, so I figured I'd wear this nice Ren-dress a friend made for me. At the reception after the ceremony, a woman came up to me and said how lovely she thought it was that I was wearing a traditional Korean outfit. I almost burst out laughing, but I nicely explained that it wasn't exactly Korean.
Posted by John L (Member # 6005) on :
quote:Another related topic... I've always dated caucasians, likely because they're the people I've been surrounded by. There's the pretty common comment about "asian fetish" and boyfriends of mine "preferring asian girlfriends" etc. It's never particularly bothered me, because I don't see offense to having a preference in appearance-type. Anyone else come across this?
Oh my goodness, yes. In fact, it's almost a common symptom for identifying a "hardcore" computer geek. Well, except it's not just relegated to computer geeks. One of my friends, who happens to be very much a computer geek, has an Asian fetish that seems creepy to me (not in a dangerous way to anyone, though). In fact, of the people I have actually known, only computer geeks have had a real "fetish" for girls who have Asian heritage.
And to back up what porce said, people of mixed descent in just about any ethnicity I've seen have been generally good looking. Sandy (nndraa) is indeed very beautiful, and Ted (Pod) is a handsome gentleman. In my own family, two of my step-siblings are also very good looking (half Philippino), as are the extended family of my stepdad who are also mixed heritage (large extended family). Of course, there is also two of my cousins, who are mulatto, who are both also very good looking. Basically mixing of ethnicity seems to increase the number of beautiful people in the world. Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
Dean Cain is half-asian?
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
Oops, well I was right though. And I found the mini-bio interesting, especially his mom's many husbands. (I don't think I'm related to any of them)
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
quote: He is part Welsh, Japanese, French-Canadian and Irish.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
Ah, okay. The Welsh part would explain why people say I kinda look like him sometimes.
Posted by Pod (Member # 941) on :
Well this will be my first post in a long while.
I am indeed half chinese. My father's from Shanghai (it's funny how non mainlanders tend to treat china as one single entity, like Hong Kong or Taiwan). My mother is from Akron, Ohio. I was born in San Fran and grew up in Columbus Ohio.
For having gone to several schools that were comprised almost entirely of caucasian kids, i have discovered that there is a good deal that i do know about chinese culture, and that there isn't a clean break between the "chinese" values of my family and the current generation of my family (myself, my sibs, and my cousins). However as the eldest of three boys i can't vouch for how much my sibs picked up, my family has grown less chinese in some regards as each year passes.
Another interesting question, is how compelled/inclined are the asians on the board to dating someone who is at least part asian?
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
Dang, I'm late to the party again.
I'm 1/4 Japanese but nisei; my father was born in Nagoya. I lived there till I was three, and even now Japanese food is the most familiar food to me. Pot roast and potatoes still seem like mysterious, exotic fare.
PSI, you said something about someone looking Mexican. I giggled, because that's how I've always thought my family looks. They're half-Japanese and half-Swedish.
My grandpd and obachan are very active in the Salt Lake Japanese community. I'm still sad about the Daiichi ward contracting out for New Year's mochi. *sigh* It was always so much fun making that stuff.
Also, my grandparents were the first Japanese-American couple sealed in the Salt Lake temple.
Anyhoo. Carry on. Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
quote:Oh my goodness, yes. In fact, it's almost a common symptom for identifying a "hardcore" computer geek. Well, except it's not just relegated to computer geeks. One of my friends, who happens to be very much a computer geek, has an Asian fetish that seems creepy to me (not in a dangerous way to anyone, though). In fact, of the people I have actually known, only computer geeks have had a real "fetish" for girls who have Asian heritage.
I don't think that's the true correlation. The nature of transnational media distribution (ok, online fansubbing) guarantees that the majority of anime geeks are also computer geeks, so there you go.
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
oo, I lied!
I always swore, growing up, that I would marry a Japanese guy. But, alas, I married someone even whiter than me and one of my kids is even blue-eyed and blonde-haired.
One of my brothers looks more Japanese than the rest of us, and when he was a little younger a few years ago girls used tomistake him for Dean Cain. He is over 6 feet tall, has black hair and brown skin, but high cheekbones and green eyes.
He used to go on LDSSO.com, before he got married, and I remember laughing with him about this girl he'd met from Kansas whose dad wouldn't let her date him because he wasn't "white". Hhehehee. I'm sure if that dad had seen me, he wouldn't have believed I was even Japanese. Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
Pod, hey there!
I feel a bit bad saying this, but I've almost never been attracted to an asian guy. I've met maybe two korean guys I've found cute, but not in the want-to-date way but in the admiration way. I don't know many part-asians. Really, most of my friends are Jewish by descent.
I think it's because I grew up in a white world. Asian people were the people I was related to, so being attracted to asian people was a bit of a strange idea in a way.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Just bumping this for Pat I like how all the smileys are yellow .
Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :
Re: part-Asians being mistaken for Mexicans:
I'm not Asian at all, but I can relate. When I was an exchange student in Russia, many Russians mistook me for Polish (or sometimes Czech). I have no idea why. I haven't a drop of Polish blood in me, or any other Slavic heritage for that matter. My ancestors were mostly Swiss/German, with some French and possibly English.
Ethnicity is a weird thing.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
I'm not sure I exactly qualify, but that's never stopped me from weighing in with my two bits.
I'm a halfer or 'breed, if you're from the South - mom's several generations removed from England by way of Ohio and pop is a Filipino native.
Don't speak the language - apparently pop wasn't inclined to teach us, which made it really bite for the family gatherings when I could only understand every third or fourth word.
I think the "asian" fetish is more an interest in the unusual and exotic more than the particular type. Blondes are highly "prized" in South American countries and the Middle East - again, because they are exotic and decidedly rare. And I must admit this doesn't speak wonders to my gender, but oh well.
I'm big - 6' and stocky, but I've been mistaken for everything from Chinese (rare) to Hispanic (more common) and once as a lady's Vietnamese refugee house guest. I also tend to loom over other Filipinos, which tends to cut down on any overt rudeness.
Even the family name isn't exotic enough to raise eyebrows. Growing up, I always thought of myself as white until the other kids made it very clear I wasn't, which was an interesting turning point in my life. Of course, growing up in the South, I really only understood two races at the time: White and Black. Since I knew I wasn't Black, White seemed the proper alternative. Boy, was I wrong.
I think I hit all the major highlights - dating has never been a major issue since I'm a social freak anyway. That being said, I tend to gravitate towards white women as a personal preference. I'm a sucker for cheekbones.
-Trevor
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Regarding the dating thing: I admit that I sometimes find Asians and hapas attractive. But most of the guys I'm friends with happen to be white, so I've never been interested in dating an Asian (that goes back to the "I want to date my friends" phenomenon I mentioned in the thread Stupid guys, perfect girls thread). However, I'm not particularly picky about race. My other "group identities" are much stronger--for example, I'd rather date someone who is as nerdy as I am or is the same religion as me than someone who's the same racial group.
Which reminds me...I'm still not sure how to classify myself racially. I filled out a survey about college life the other day, and one section asked how often I study, hang out, etc. with people of my own racial group. They also wanted to know how stereotypes about my race affected me. Well...if you classify me as "biracial" the answers are: rarely to never and what stereotypes? Are there any stereotypes about mixed-race/hapa people? I really don't know if there's much of a coherent "hapa" community. I mean, my parents aren't hapa, so it's a bit weird to be part of a racial community that most of your relatives don't even belong to. I suspect that the other ethnic groups are more cohesive because the whole family belongs to them and children are brought up in that community. Anyhow, I once went to a meeting of the interracial club at my school, but didn't feel much of a connection with the other students. I guess I'm just rambling now, but what I'm trying to say is that mixed-race people are in a strange position since they often don't quite belong to any of the racial groups they come from, but don't really know what to do with each other either. At least, that's my perspective.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
As "hapa" - we share a collective experience of not traditionally being included in a racially-focused culture. You might speak Japanese fluently, be an expert in all things Japan culture and still be excluded as an outsider because you are impure.
Korea can be just as bad - I don't know, but I suspect China may liken similar comparison. Certain Filipino families take pride in being "pure", but by and large the major export of the Philipines tends to be...Filipinos. Which means the majority of Filipinos are more accepting of mutts. By and large.
By comparison, the American "experience" tends to focus on absorbing and re-casting other cultures in the shape, color and flavor of the American one. You can come from anything, but at the end of the day, by God(dess), you will be an American.
Sorry, idle ramblings this afternoon.
-Trevor
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
On a slightly different note, I talked to my mom a few days ago. She's going to Korea for a 3 week visit, and spending it travelling with her sisters. We talked about the family visiting Korea some time.
The last time I visited Korea was ~8 years ago. I'd love to go again, even though getting made fun of by my aunts and uncles can be irritating. My sister-in-law is excited to go, as well. She's white, and grew up in a pretty conservative small town in VA. My brother isn't interested at all, though. I don't think I understand why. My sister's interested, I think.
What do you think of visiting your "native country" or one of the countries in your heritage? Language is tough, but I think Korea's gone through quite a culture change in the last 8 years so it will be more similar to the US than different.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
I'm not Asian, but I've always had Asian friends who gave me lots of exposure to Asian cultures. Also, I worked for a company called CCI, which runs a website called www.asianavenue.com.
I absolutely hated The Joy Luck Club movie and loved the book. I think that they gutted it because they thought it would appeal to a wider audience. I wrote a paper about women and power in the book for my Chinese Religious Traditions class.
Two of my best friends are first-generation Korean-American and they tell me that Margaret Cho's imitation of her mother could be an imitation of their mothers. She also makes excellent points about never having had Asian role models while she was growing up.
I'm particularly interested in the experiences of Asian-Americans because there is a strong possibility that Andrew and I will be adopting a Chinese child. We want to be knowledgeable about the culture she comes from and have an idea of some of the experiences she'll have growing up. I once asked one of my co-workers, a first-generation Chinese American, what she thought about Andrew and I adopting a Chinese girl, who would be raised Jewish in the South. Grace thoght for a minute and said, "Well, she'll have a lot of character."
Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
Last summer, I was shadowing a pediatric neurologist. One of her kids is a Chinese girl, adopted a year and a half ago. I think she's about 7.
Apparently she told her parents some really shocking stories about her childhood. She lived in an orphanage, and the owners would lock her up in the room with the infants all night with instructions to take care of them! She came to the US malnourished. She had a couple seizures in the last year since she's been in the US, which is why she was visiting the neurologist. She seemed really happy with her new parents, and very energetic.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
My family is from Russian...and that's Asian, right?
*humph*
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Asians are more accepted now than they were in my day - 1972 - 2004.
With that in mind, there will be some cultural difference, more pronounced the older the child. Respecting her cultural heritage while she is raised in yours can be tricky, but certainly doable. The biggest nuance would be language, in my opinion.
I don't think she will have problems assimilating or being accepted by her peers and the community at large.
I'd be perhaps more concerned with how willing the Jewish community will accept her into the faith if you plan on raising her in that tradition. But you know better about that than I do.
Otherwise, I wish you the best. How old is the bundle of joy?
-Trevor
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
She's probably not born yet - we're still about 2 years away from the adoption.
Acceptance by the Jewish community doesn't worry me at all. She will be converted to Judasim (all adopted children of unknown parentage have to be). After that, it will be the same as if she had been born Jewish. She will be totally accepted by the Jewish community - I know many Jewish people who have adopted from China.
It's actually something of a NYC stereotype that Jews and Asians have an affinity for each other. We used to joke about it at CCI.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Heh, that was a stereotype that I was unaware of.
I was also unaware of the willingness to embrace children from outside the faith.
I'm assuming you're in a major metropolitan area in the South?
-Trevor
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Oh, yes, as long as the child is converted, we don't care where he or she came from or what color he or she is. The rabbi of my new shul has converted several adopted children.
Well, we're in the largest city in Western Virginia. We just moved to Roanoke from Richmond this week.
One of the things that worries me is the stereotypes held by our own families. When we were talking about adopting from China with some of my aunts and cousins, they were all very supportive, but kept saying things like, "You can get her a violin," and "She'll have such pretty hair," and "She'll be so smart."
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Thanks, rivka! I am definitely going to get a copy.
Another thing that slightly worries me is the name issue. Our future adopted child will have 3 names: a Chinese one, a Hebrew one, and an English one. Andrew and I each go by our English names, but some of our friends and family go by their Hebrew names. It's the same with a lot of the Asian people I know - some go by their English names and some go by their Asian names. My old boss at CCI went exclusively by her Korean name (Sohee) because her parents names her Clarice, but she is the only Korean person I've ever met who did so.
What is y'all's take on the name issue?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
While I don't know Devorah personally, I have a friend from high school who does. Last I heard, Devorah was happily married, living in Jerusalem, and had several kids.
As far as names, I'm in favor of simplicity. I have only one set -- it's the same in Hebrew and on my birth certificate (well, transliterated). Same with my kids. But I have plenty of friends with multiple versions of their names.
Posted by dabbler (Member # 6443) on :
Well my first name is english, and my middle name is Korean. I use my korean name as a handle (Suneun!). My sister's first name is Nam, which is half of her full korean name, Nam-eun (Eun is her "middle" name). She was born in Korea, which is why I think she didn't get an english name. My brother has his set up like me, but doesn't use his middle name for anything.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Go with all three names - she will pick the one she likes to use most often.
As for the family stereotypes - the violin, yes. Beautiful hair, I think most Asian hairstyles are viewed as beautiful since they are exotic.
As for the rest -- well, that's just going to be a problem but you will have to address that as each instance arises. Defuse the situation with humor, but make sure to correct the situation - allowing it to go unchecked will invite unintentional comparisons.
-Trevor
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
quote: NYC stereotype that Jews and Asians have an affinity for each other
This is interesting. The clique I ran with in highschool was 2 Jews, 2 asians, and 2 redheads. We all kind of knew we weren't going to be dating much in high school, though I did hook up with one of the Lit Mag editors.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
for a sec, then said "Oh ASians. As in with an S."![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
. And Shigosei, stop lying. You get good grades in EVERYTHING.
![[Blushing]](graemlins/blushing.gif)
![[Laugh]](graemlins/laugh.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)