I was eavesdropping on a conversation yesterday, and something one person said kind of threw me for a loop. She said, basically, that it's against the law for psychologists to ask what religion you belonged to.
I've never been to a psychologist, but that sounds completely stupid to me. I mean, sure, it could invoke some discrimination, but so could you gender or race, and everybody knows those right off the bat. And couldn't a psychologist's knowledge of your religion help him to determine what kinds of treatments you'd be okay with?
So was the lady wrong, or is society really that paranoid?
Posted by Anti-Chris (Member # 4452) on :
Well, regardless whether it's that way or not, I believe some people in society really are that paranoid.
Posted by Rhaegar The Fool (Member # 5811) on :
I don't think it is, it would be pretty stupid if it was.
Rhaegar
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Ask with no context? Like on an intake form? Maybe. Ask in context, with therapeutic implications? To be unable to do so seems insane.
Mack probably knows for sure, though.
[Edit: Looking back at it now, it said exactly the opposite of what I meant. So I've fixed it. ]
[ February 24, 2004, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: rivka ]
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I'm pretty sure they can ask, since it could be related to your therapy....in my case, religion was very closely tied-in with my problems in the first place, so we ended up discussing it a lot.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
Gosh, I would hope that they didn't *need* to ask, and that in seeing them, I made sure that I found out what *their* religion was. Heck, it was important to me to know that my OB/GYN was a Christian...it would be absolutely *vital* to know that my psychologist was.
edit: wrong vowel
[ February 24, 2004, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: jeniwren ]
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
I wouldn't have any problem with a psychologist asking my religion and then using that information in therapy work. Of course, I would have done my very best to find a psychologist who would be fairly tolerant and agreeable to my standards and beliefs.
Edit: Beat me to it, jeniwren
[ February 24, 2004, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: advice for robots ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I agree, jeniwren and afr, that's what I do also. But that wasn't the question, I think.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
My therapist is Christian and we spent a long time at the beginning talking about beliefs. I would never see a therapist that wasn't Christian and even just putting the word Christian isn't enough for me, I went to someone recommended by my pastor. I had to sign a form giving her permission to talk to my pastor, because both of them are involved in my therapy.
As for my psychiatrist, she asked me the first appointment if I was a religious person or not. I said I was Christian and she hasn't brought it up again since. Of course, she talks with and works with my therapist and she knows that she is a Christian therapist so I guess she hasn't needed to ask me any questions.
My OB/GYN is Christian, my doctor is in private practice and the name of his practice is Christian Medical Clinic, he's also a Gideon. My pediatrician and dentist are Christian, and I go to church with my vet.
I don't care what religious persuasion most people I interact with are, but when it comes to my health and my family's health I want to be with someone I can trust and the best way for that is to ensure they share the same core belief system.
Edit: I re-read my post and I didn't like the way it sounded, it didn't convey what I thought very well, so here goes. In the last sentence replace trust with "feel comfortable with"
I haven't asked or cared what religion the specialists we've seen for Daniel or any of the kids are, because I was in urgent need and I wanted someone competent. But a family doctor, somone I see very often, I want to be able to talk to them about what's going on in my life, and since church is a big part of it and some of my beliefs may overlap with medical decisions (like whether or not to have an amniocentesis during pregnancy, etc.) I feel better with someone that I know shares the same type beliefs.
Does that make more sense?
[ February 24, 2004, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: Belle ]
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
I would think religion could be a very important factor in psychological therapy. It doesn't have to be, but it could be. If the psychologist intended to use my religious beliefs as part of the therapy, I would want to know that he/she would do it in a respectful and tolerant (and hopefully informed) manner. Trying to discount or abuse my beliefs during the course of therapy would make the therapy ineffective at best, and quite damaging at worst.
[ February 24, 2004, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: advice for robots ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Yes. Absolutely. It's an important part of cultural competency--if you don't know someone's religion and/or view of religion and/or choice of religion or non-religion or what-have-you, you run a large risk in mis-treatment, mis-diagnosis and can piss them off without knowing it.
Therapy is much more fun when you piss of clients on purpose. Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
I can understand a person wanting someone of their own faith as a therapist - or, at the very least, someone understanding of faith or of the person's faith.
I understand less why it is important to have a medical doctor of your own faith, as long as the doctor is willing to listen to you and is sensitive to your concerns and needs, including the need/advisibility of invasive tests, treatments, etc.
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
quote:...as long as the doctor is willing to listen to you and is sensitive to your concerns and needs, including the need/advisibility of invasive tests, treatments, etc.
I think that is the reason people are more comfortable with doctors of their own faith. A person of one's own faith isn't more trustworthy as much as more easily recognizable as being trustworthy. In my opinion (and I have never asked my doctors what their religion is), it's just a means of skipping a step.
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
I just can't understand that idea, tho, Da Goat. I know good doctors and bad doctors. I know good churchgoing people and horrible churchgoing people. Choosing a doctor based on whether they attend church, or which church, doesn't sound any safer than picking a doctor based on their gender, shape, or color.
I find the whole concept very upsetting. And insulting. Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
quote:Therapy is much more fun when you piss of clients on purpose.
You know, the one and only time I believed for even a few minutes I could be a therapist was after viewing a video of a therapy session of Albert Ellis and a client. I remember thinking "I could do that!"
quote:"Whine, Whine, Whine" (To the tune of "The Whiffenpoof Song," by Guy Schull) I cannot have all of my wishes filled- Whine, whine, whine! I cannot have every frustration stilled- Whine, whine, whine! Life really owes me the things that I miss, Fate has to grant me eternal bliss! And since I must settle for less than this- Whine, whine, whine! (Lyrics by Albert Ellis)
*sigh* another road untravelled. Probably a good thing for troubled people in need of help living near me.
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
As I said, I've never done it. I normally pick my physicians based on what my insurance company is willing to cover, and the doctor's location. I am -not- the type of person who will travel 100 miles just to be healthier. I trust my dentist, my doctor, my chiropractor, and my orthodontist, but I only know one of their religions (He's Christian, but even then, I don't know his exact denomination.)
I probably used the wrong terminology in my last post. I didn't mean you give total trust to someone in your religion for something as personal as a physician. I meant you can trust that what they prescribe you will fall within the bounds of your religion (eg. A Jewish doctor would not prescribe a Jewish patient a diet that contained food that wasn't kosher). I apologize for offending you, Theca.
[ February 29, 2004, 12:14 AM: Message edited by: Da_Goat ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I hate Albert Ellis.
You know that he's trying to piss you off.
I prefer a more subtle approach.
But seriously, his style of therapy bugs me because it ends up insulting the client/patient/whateverterminologyyouprefer. It's like Albert Ellis and Stuart Smalley are on two ends of the spectrum--too harsh and too pandering.
But with Ellis, he FEELS insulting and you get REALLY uncomfortable. Therapy is supposed to be challenging. It isn't easy and isn't plesant and isn't supposed to keep you inside your comfort box. But I've found that helping someone walk out of that box is much easier when you aren't directly attacking that person. Even if you aren't, if a person PERCEIVES it that way, then you are, and you won't have a great therapeutic relationship. And without a good therapeutic relationship, no good therapy will be had.
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
quote: A Jewish doctor would not prescribe a Jewish patient a diet that contained food that wasn't kosher.
Actually, that's not necessarily a foregone conclusion. Many Jews do not keep kosher, and are not that knowledgeable about kashrut. I had a doctor recently recommend a dietary supplement that I was unable to find a kosher version of.
In fact, though, health care professionals are supposed to be sensitive enought to religious and cultural differences to tailor their recommendations to the patient accordingly.
[ February 29, 2004, 12:19 AM: Message edited by: Ela ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
And Goat, a lot of that type of stuff is covered in cultural competency training.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Actually, mack, I was joking - kind of. The evil twin that lurks inside me really enjoyed Ellis.
What actually made the most sense to me was (I think) Perls doing his cognitive-behavioral therapy. At least I could see that being an approach that would be the most useful to me personally. Not work I would do well, though, and I'm glad for my own sake and other people's sakes that I realized that.
Who am I kidding? My evil twin still enjoys Ellis. Wouldn't steer a friend his way, though.
[ February 29, 2004, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: sndrake ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I use a combination of cognitive-behavioral and humanist techniques.
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
I asked Andrew, who is a lawyer and was a psych major, and he said that of course psychologists can ask about a patient's religion. However, they cannot refuse to treat the patient based on the answer. Maybe that's what that lady meant?
Belle, honestly, I just cannot understand picking a physician based on religion. I pick my doctors based solely on their medical credentials and I couldn't care less what religion they practice, if any. I feel completely comfortable with people of all faiths and I will entrust my health (and that of my family) to anyone who has the brains, discipline, talent, and will to excel in their fields. I feel that I could speak just as freely to a Gentile family doctor as I could to a Jewish family doctor and get the same level of understanding and treatment from him or her. I also wouldn't want to risk my health by limiting my choice of doctors. What if the top specialists that I needed weren't Jewish?
Posted by dangermom (Member # 1676) on :
Don't most medical doctors ask about religion right on the forms? Mine always seem to, and so does the hospital. It's so they know who to call if you collapse and need last rites, or something. So why not psychiatrists?
I can see preferring a doctor of your own faith, especially if you have beliefs that are a bit off the beaten track. For myself, I've never cared much (though my bishop was my anesthesiologist for my gall bladder operation, which was both highly embarrassing and somewhat comforting). For a therapist, I would definitely look for someone LDS; we're so weird, who else would understand me? Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Therapists never claim to understand ANYone, even themselves. If they say they do, they're lying Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Medical doctors should ask your religion, but for medical reasons.
When Andrew and I began fertility treatments, we were asked a number of very specific questions about our religion. We are both Ashkenazi Jews, so we had to undergo testing to see if we are carriers of any of the Jewish genetic disorders. There are a number of them, including Cystic Fibrosis, Canavan Disease, and Tay-Sachs. Luckily, neither of us is a carrier of any of them.
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