So excited.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
I'm really looking forwrd to this movie, having just reread The Iliad and The Oddysey, I might actually be able to spot any glaring holes in the movie, and that would actually spoil it for me. But, fortunately, my memory is poor enough that I'll probably just buy into whatever they decided to do in the film.
Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
Actually I enjoyed reading Clive Cussler's The Trojan Oddysey. Great Book.
[ March 06, 2004, 11:49 PM: Message edited by: Stan the man ]
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Currently enrolled in a class where we are doing close readings of teh iliad, odyessey, and aenied.
Should have fun going "oh GOD they SCREWED that up SO bad!"
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Yes especially when the gods have been removed.
And, worse, Petersen has mentioned the "metamorphosis of Greek gods into human form".
Is anyone else unable to believe how sweet this movie's cast is?
Brian Cox Orlando Bloom in the role he was born to play Sean Bean Brad Pitt as the greatest warrior of the age and just when you're thinking stop already, I can't take any more, anything more exciting and I will surely die, they whip out Peter O'Toole.
Sure, it would be nice if they included the gods, but that could also be cheesy. I can see why Petersen wants to go for the 'realistic' take on the Trojan War.
I hope his anti-Bush sentiments will not lead Card to terminate their business relationship.
[ March 07, 2004, 01:26 AM: Message edited by: Destineer ]
Posted by Shlomo (Member # 1912) on :
It may be the first war movie in my memory that is worth seeing.
Posted by knightswhosayni! (Member # 4096) on :
GAH! Would putting one shot of Sean Bean in there be so hard? really?
Ni!
Posted by HRE (Member # 6263) on :
My Latin class and I are planning on "accidentally" meeting at the theaters, and just happening to run into our teacher there, and winding up in the same restaurant afterwards. Entirely coincidental, of course.
Posted by BrianM (Member # 5918) on :
Oh no! I thought for sure they had recasted the Pit as someone else. Brad Pitt as the strongest, most fearsome and greatest warrior of all time? Please! They should recast him to a more suitable feminine role like Paris or even Helen, then again they already have Faery Boy as Paris.
It also looks like they will leave the gods out of it altogether, even in the war's motivations. That's a dumb move for Hollywood, not only did the three female Goddesses cause the war, but Apollo, Ares, and Athena actually fought in front of the walls of troy. There was no Trojan war without the gods, it's probably the most basic part of the story.
[Edit] I wonder how they're going to twist and pervert the story line given that Achilles' MOTHER was a Titaness and his armor was forged and given to him by Hephaestes.
[ March 07, 2004, 03:34 AM: Message edited by: BrianM ]
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:Brad Pitt as the strongest, most fearsome and greatest warrior of all time? Please! They should recast him to a more suitable feminine role like Paris or even Helen
Have you seen Fight Club? How about Snatch?
I think there isn't a man alive more suited to playing a demi-god.
Posted by BrianM (Member # 5918) on :
The problem is not just his size, though that is a big, or rather I should say, small, part. The other problems are his feminine looks, boyish personality(and yes I DID see both those horrendously trendy and overrated movies, I still can't believe all the fanaticism that Fight club spawned it was Hollywood's cheap/trendy attempt at being non-trendy and dabbling with pop-culture nihilistic philosophy) and the stigma in many peoples' minds. Don't get me wrong, he may be a good actor for some things, but a movie along the proportions and style of Ben-Hur he is NOT good for. Even McCauly Culkin would make a better Achilles than Brad Pitt. Personally I think Viggo Mortenson would make a good Achilles, or maybe the Rock if he had some voice and acting training.
[ March 07, 2004, 03:50 AM: Message edited by: BrianM ]
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
The Rock, eh? Or how about Vin Diesel? I'm sure either of them would give a performance to remember.
Mortensen was a good casting choice for Aragorn, but with a more complex, tortured character like Achilles on his hands, I'm not sure how well he could perform. Besides, he's skinny as all hell. The main thing about Achilles is not his height (a feature which can easily be faked on screen anyway, as evidenced by many of Tom Cruise's films) but his musculature. And Brad Pitt can look pretty strapping, e.g. in Legends of the Fall.
The main thing is that we need a good actor who can portray the rage of which the Muses sing.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I'm looking forward to historical inaccuracies. I heard there's quite a few.
Posted by Miro (Member # 1178) on :
Did you expect otherwise? Posted by LadyDove (Member # 3000) on :
After visiting Tintagel, I'd have to say that most of those historical/mythical heros were mighty big in spirit or courage but mighty small in stature as compared with present day standards.
Tintagel is the site of "King Arthur's Castle". I'm 5'7" and the top of the doorframes come to about my forehead and are about 2' wide.
I'm no Brad Pitt fan, but in this case, I don't think size matters.
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Achilles is, as pointed out, mostly a emotional driven character. He's the greatest warrior at troy, true, and he's is described as a physically impressive man... but really, the iliad is about the rage of achilles at agamemnon. Those two characters need to be played by good actors. Brad Pitt IS a good actor, and can definetely do rage.
A good casting choice, even though their might be BETTER possibilities.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
While Brad Pitt's a good actor, and all, I have my reservations about him as Achilles. I mean, Achilles had a spear no one could heft but him... and was considered the most formidable warrior on a field that included Ajax, Agammemnon, Menelaus, Odysseus, Hector, et al.
He was a powerful guy, and he knew it. The body of a Vin Diesel or Rock, or maybe even Kevin Sorbo... but none of those jokers could pull it off. Russell Crowe, perhaps.
I dunno. I'm sure Pitt will pull it off, but it's gonna take a lot of creative filming to make it seem like he could single handedly turn the tide of battle through strength of arms.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
But those arms were given strength by the gods. So they don't have to LOOK massive.
Besides, it's Brad Pitt...
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
LadyDove... yes, but *everyone* was small. So the "big" guys were still small by our standards.
Charlemagne was considered a giant because he was over 6 feet tall, and William Wallace was supposedly 6'6" or so.
Theseus was smaller, because he used his brain and not his brawn. So was Jason, because his skill was with a ship. Odysseus wasn't made out to be huge, because he was all about skill and trickery.
But guys like Hercules, Ajax, Achilles, Menelaus, and the like... they were all about the *bash bash*. They would have been bigger... I mean, the stories are constantly telling of swords cleaving helmets and skulls, spears piercing shields and armor, and other feats of strength. These guys were brawny.
Now, 5'8" 175 lbs might be as brawny as they got (numbers admittedly pulled from butt)... but when everyone else is in the 5'4" range, that's pretty formidable.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Yes, but, Mack... they took the gods out, remember? So, this is just a powerful guy, no supernatural boosts.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Hush, you.
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
They took the metamorphosis of the gods into humans out, but did they take the gods out entirely? it doesn't look like it.
Posted by BrianM (Member # 5918) on :
See, it looks like they DID take the gods entirely out of the plot since they went to the trouble of rewriting the most basic part of the plot to be Paris simply wanting Helen and not dealing with the gods on that issue at all. If they go to that trouble I can't see why they'd bring in the gods for the other necessary parts.
Posted by LadyDove (Member # 3000) on :
FlyingCow-
I'm pretty "impressed" by the thighs and arms in those pictures of Pitt. They look like they could do some damage.
But you're right, it's all comparative. If they throw some elevator sandals on him, he should be okay. Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
Thetis does appear, though. I wonder if she'll be a mortal.
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
You know, we're better off this way than we would be if they went too far with the myth, going beyond what's in the Iliad. They could've made Achilles invulnerable except for his ankle.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Cept it wouldn't be the heel that'd do him in. It'd be breaking an ankle instead.
That's right...without the gods, how do you explain the heel?
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
The heel isn't in the Iliad!
Posted by BrianM (Member # 5918) on :
Achilles WAS invincible everywhere except his ankle. The problem is not that the gods were a minor part of this, they were the most basic part of the plot. It's not something you can edit out without changing the identity of the plot. If this movie doesn't include the mythology then it is not the Iliad, nor the Battle of Troy. It wouldn't be too hard to put the gods in the movie, and they are necessary.
Poseidon and Apollo built the walls of troy and gave them the Palladium to keep them strong.
Thetis, an immortal Titaness, lobbied Zeus to make the Greeks lose for a while, while Achilles went off and sulked about having his prize-wench taken by Agamemnon(?).
Apollo, Ares and then Athena all fought in the battle itself starting with Apollo, and then Athena and Ares responding.
Haphaestus redid Achilles armor during this time and strengthened the bow(yes, both Achilles and Odysseus/Ulysses had special bows) and spear of Achilles, which only he could heft.
Zeus and Hera visited the battle constantly to watch, sometimes as Vultures overlooking it, sometimes sitting up on a hill above undisguised.
Poseidon sent constant sea deities against the greek ships, on initial voyage and all the supply and reinforcement ships and finally the return voyage.
Not to mention the role the three goddesss had at the beginning with Paris. This is the most basic part of all. To omit this is to write out the biggest, most important part of the plot from a motivation aspect.
[ March 07, 2004, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: BrianM ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Where is it? I can't remember.
Posted by BrianM (Member # 5918) on :
That's because it's part of the literature pre-dating the Illiad by Homer since Achilles birth was already told of. The bit about the poisoned arrow killing him is in there, but the part about Thetis dipping him in the River Styx is not.
[ March 07, 2004, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: BrianM ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Right, but it's still what does him in.
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
Achilles's invulnerability and Thetis's dunking him in the River Styx are not mentioned in the Iliad. That part of the Troy myth appeared later. It first appeared in a poem by the Roman poet Statius in the first century AD.
Posted by BrianM (Member # 5918) on :
No, I am pretty sure Herodotus wrote about it too, and I am fairly sure the part about the poisoned arrow and the ankle is in the Iliad. I'll go check.
Posted by Book (Member # 5500) on :
It seems as though Paris and Helen are seen as kinda the morally superior people in this movie... Do you think they'll Hollywood it up and make them happy and together at the end? I wouldn't be able to forgive that.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I was pretty sure that a goddess went to Paris and told him where to shoot Achilles with an arrow. Maybe I'm wrong... it's possible that the goddess just urged him to shoot Achilles from the wall, rather than go down to meet him.
In any event, though, removing the gods kind of removes Homer's whole point... that man is not all powerful, living and dying at the whims of greater powers.
I mean, every major event of the war was due to the direct involvement of the gods... without their direct involvement, there was essentially stalemate. Same with the Odyssey - which punished Odysseus for thinking that man could succeed without the gods.
Maybe Wolfgang Petersen will get lost at sea for 7 years until he realizes the part the gods played in the Iliad.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
quote: I think there isn't a man alive more suited to playing a demi-god.
I prefer Kevin Sorbo, but thats just because I like that show. Definately wouldn't do good with Achilles, but loved him as Hercules.
Yeah, I know. Lame. Hehehe.
Posted by Book (Member # 5500) on :
I think Russel Crowe would've been a great Achilles, even though he's already been an iconic Bronze Age hero. I mean, he already is Achilles: immature, recalcitrant, and big.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
The fun of the gods derived from messing with mortals.
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