That is all. Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
No, but it is often indictive of some.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
::scratches 'virgin' off application::
Posted by Sal (Member # 3758) on :
Too much of it may not always be healthy though.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
How would you be able to prove it, anyway? There's no point in proclaiming it to casual acquaintances.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*eyes PSI's kids, then own*
Too late for us, then, I guess. Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
What do you have against virginity?
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
I've always thought there was too much emphasis placed on virginity (with peers) but that's just me. At my high school in Georgia, we all claimed (boys AND girls) to be virgins, and would have been shocked to hear anyone say otherwise. When I heard of one girl having sex, I was amazed and so were my friends.
Then I moved to Arizona to finish my last year, and I think the girls and boys here were afraid to say they WEREN'T having sex, and I bet most of them were telling the truth. I was pretty baffled.
I've never been able to figure out what the difference was?
Of course, that was high school, but still. I'm not surprised when people my age are virgins. Good for them!
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Huh. In my high school in Oklahoma, very few people would state whether they were ore were not. But unless you had reason to suspect otherwise, you generally assumed that they were.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Knowing pearce, she doesn't have anything against virginity. Reread the statement.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Cryptic statements suck, anyway. pH, what the heck are you talking about?
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
quote:I've never been able to figure out what the difference was?
Arizonans are just randier, I guess.
The first time I knew one of my schoolmates had sex was 6th grade, and that was only because she was impregnated. My elementary school-aged brother and sister have both said that they suspect some kids in their school have experimented.
In high school, we still have sex ed, but they no longer discourage sex. Rather, they accept it, and provide and on-campus nursery and classes for mothers.
I'm not sure if this is the common practice for other states, like Georgia, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Methinks someone has jumped to conclusions about pH. Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
It's pretty easy when (s)he won't clarify.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
I think that she's basically bugged by the tendancy to define a person solely on the basis of their virginal/non-virginal status - as if that was the only important aspect about them (when really it's not anyone else's business).
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
What ludosti said. Except that most people don't ever try to define someone by _non_-virginal status. In that case, they consider all of the individual's personality traits like any other normal human being would. But if it's a _virgin_ they're talking about....well then, all of those other things just don't seem to matter as much.
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
It's just cause, you know, virgins are all freaks! Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: Except that most people don't ever try to define someone by _non_-virginal status.
No offense, but I think you are wildly wrong. I've never known a woman that wasn't offended by the term 'slut' or 'easy'.
I understand that you have the exact problem, though. I'm sorry that you can't find people who will accept you for who you are.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
But since there are so many other things that make pH a freak, does it really matter?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I sincerely hope no one's tried the line, "Pearce, I like you because you're a virgin." I don't think she'd leave them alive. Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
Yeah, but what a way to go. *swoon*
Posted by skrika03 (Member # 5930) on :
I don't see it as a personality trait, though it could be a character trait, but also not. I mean, if someone is a virgin then they are probably committed to chastity. But they could be a non-virgin and be equally committed after having repented. There is a certain line of reasoning that a non-virgin who embraces chastity is "better" because they know what they are missing. You know, Calvin Maker (the fictional character) logic.
Though there are the virgins who just never had an opportunity. Not they they were unattractive, maybe no one was attractive enough for them. There are folks for whom it is not a religious issue so much as a matter of their social milieu. I had friends who were going to get involved with people after they were adults. They didn't have any specific desire to remain virgins before marriage, but they certainly weren't going to give it up for any of the boys at our high school. I think in the Southeast there is more of a social structure like that, whereas in the west it's seen more as a religious/moral issue.
Posted by MEC (Member # 2968) on :
Strange, when I went to high school you were considered weird if you didn't have sex and do drugs.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Pearce, I like you because you're a virgin.
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
quote:No offense, but I think you are wildly wrong. I've never known a woman that wasn't offended by the term 'slut' or 'easy'.
Being a "slut" is very different from being a "non-virgin". The former insinuates that you have no respect whatsoever for yourself, and will basically bang anyone who asks nicely, and some who won't. The latter, these days, is just an assumption. Everybody assumes that everybody isn't a virgin, and if you are one, they react with shock and amusement.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
You know, the "shock and amusement" thing really depends on the crowd you're with. I think more people are "shocked" and "amused" if you reveal, for example, that you're 35 and have never been on a date -- but that's a completely different issue.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Yes Tom, but I am nineteen and in college and apparently do not kiss, talk, date, or act "like a virgin." Whatever that is.
I just don't think it's necessary for people to think of me as Pearce the virgin. I don't think of them as Mark the non-virgin or Catherine the non-virgin or...you get the idea.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
"Pearce the Virgin."
I dunno, kinda has a nice ring to it.
I do see what you're saying, though. That doesn't go on in my circle of friends.
Posted by skrika03 (Member # 5930) on :
Whoever said that, pH, clearly has a personality trait that is not a good one. (((pH)))
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
quote: Everybody assumes that everybody isn't a virgin, and if you are one, they react with shock and amusement.
My friends don't do this, and I wouldn't associate with anyone who did.
But then, I'm pretty particular about who I hang out with. For starters, I like ADULTS.
Posted by ladyday (Member # 1069) on :
I don't really relate to the "amusement" part of things, but I do remember having a bit of culture shock when I started seeing more of the world...it was more about "getting a clue" than judging anyone though, or at least I'd like to think so.
Posted by Pixie (Member # 4043) on :
At my school the general assumption is that everyone is a non-virgin unless it is known to be otherwise. The people I choose to be with tend to be virgins but I also have a few friends who think I'm crazy for being one. As was just said, the lines really are blurred, too. I have one friend who regrets have slept with someone just once and I have another friend who can't seem to have sex enough. It really depends on who you talk to.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
I hear you. Though actually it's more fun that way, because whenever anyone define me as a virigin I get to point out to them, in specific, logical terms, exactly why they shouldn't try to understand you based on your lack of having sex.
Hobbes Posted by skrika03 (Member # 5930) on :
When I was a teenager I was obsessed with categorizing people in terms of their fundamental natures in my quest to understand the universe. I had just come up with one, I think it was "There are two kinds of people, those who are eager to please, and those who are eager to please" and my friend says "no, there are those who have had sex and those who haven't." I found that disturbingly shallow.
I think the unwritten assumption should be "it's none of your business." But I guess I forget what it's like to be a teenager.
Posted by Zotto! (Member # 4689) on :
I really, REALLY agree with you, Pearce.
But I'm also worried that I give you the impression that *I* think of people that way, what with all the talk lately on LJ. *feels guilty*
Posted by Book (Member # 5500) on :
I'd say that most guy virgins are terrified of having it known that they're virgins. That's because being a guy means that you're supposed to have sex with a whole lot of women in an almost predatorial sense. I don't make fun of guys who are virgins though; I assume that they either haven't gotten the chance yet or are more sensitive, human people than I am.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
quote:"Pearce the Virgin."
Oh man.
Please, please tell me I'm not the only one.
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
You're certainly not, but I didn't know if this was the time to laugh at it Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
It's always the right time, Bob.
Always.
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
You're not.
That phrase is in desparate need of a comma.
Posted by vwiggin (Member # 926) on :
Or a coma, depending on how vigorous the piercing was.
Back to topic. I don't think virgins are freaks. If it is by choice, then it is a decision I respect. If that person is trying to get laid every night but is still a virgin after several years of trying, well then that person is just a loser. Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
pH, just as a note. You may be in serious danger of being hurled into a volcano, or used in a demonic sacrifice.
Just so you know.
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
pH, if it makes you feel any better, I got the same reaction back when I was a virgin. "You're a virgin? But ... you don't act like one!" On some level, I took that as a compliment to my L337 M4K1N-0U+ 5K1LL5. But another part of me had to think, "Well, then, how exactly DOES a virgin act? Shouldn't it be possible to be open-minded, secure about sex, passionate, good with physical relationships without actually having had sex?"
Of course, once I got the impression that people would judge me poorly for being a virgin, the "secure about sex" part started to erode for me, and I became pretty convinced that once I did get married, I'd do a terrible job of it because I'd never done it before
Turns out, the same skills that make you good at everything else physical and romantic translate very well into fun and exciting lovemaking. So people are full of crap. You don't need to cross this magical line of losing your virginity to have every advantage or good quality that a non-virgin has. What it takes is an open, sympathetic mind, an unselfish heart, and great communication, and the rest really comes naturally.
I guess this tangent is something I needed to say more than you needed to hear But the real point is, your friends are idiots if they think that the only way to be a virgin is to be a frigid, mousey, anal-retentive snob, or whatever other stereotype they may have adopted. If they knew squat about the world, they'd know that there is a lot more to life and personality than when and how someone did or did not have sex for the first time.
Personally, I suspect that some non-virgins cultivate a sense of contempt for virgins to make themselves feel better about the way they lost their virginity, which for some people, is not a proud memory ...
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
quote: You may be in serious danger of being hurled into a volcano, or used in a demonic sacrifice.
Or being approached by a unicorn. Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
I agree that virginity or lack thereof is not and should not be considered the defining characteristic of a person. But is it really incorrect to say that it is indicative of parts of a person's character, beliefs, and/or circumstances?
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Just so you know, I did make that pun entirely on purpose, especially for pH
...I think the question of remembering how you lost your virginity depends on whether or not virginity is important. Is your first time somehow different than the times that come after it in some meaningful way?
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Well, most of us romanticize our first kiss, first time with sex is a much bigger deal than that.
I feel sad for those who have sex for the sole purpose of losing their virginity. That is not very magical at all.
[ April 02, 2004, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: beverly ]
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Having sex for the sake of losing your virginity implies that you attach some sort of importance to virginity.
If you don't, then having sex is having sex, regardless of whether or not it's your first time.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
quote:Having sex for the sake of losing your virginity implies that you attach some sort of importance to virginity.
For those who do it for such a reason, apparently it has negative value.
Hobbes Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
quote:But is it really incorrect to say that it is indicative of parts of a person's character, beliefs, and/or circumstances?
It can be representative of certain elements someone's personality, IF you already know something about that person.
But the problem is that there are a lot of reasons why someone might be a virgin. Lack of opportunity, lack of interest, fear of sex, youth, naivété, moral reasons, political reasons, waiting for marriage, waiting for the right person, etc, etc. Some of these are complimentary, some are hard to take as such.
I think what pH is encountering is the fact that many people make immediate assumptions about a virgin's motivations — that it's only because of naivété, lack of opportunity, or fear of sex — and thus trivialize pH's true personality and motivations.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
>> For those who do it for such a reason, apparently it has negative value. <<
Bwahaha! Yeah, I guess that's true
Anyway, Ludosti and Geoff are right.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Pearce...she put the gin in virgin...
Well, that came out wrong didn't it!!!
Okay, I could see how someone might want to tell you that you are not what they'd come to expect from a young woman who has decided to maintain her virginity. But that's probably only because you're dealing with people are too young (or too stupid) (or both) to realize that people can have fun without being sexually active.
More's their loss as far as I could tell.
So, is this one particular jerk you're dealing with or has your fun-despite-being-a-virgin nature become a general topic of discussion?
Gah!
I think you should worry deeply about the motives of anyone who can't value you as a person unless they know your status vis-a-vis sexual activity.
Or am I reading too much into this?
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Oh, it's been a general concern for this year, actually. In particular, I just had a bad day and blew up at a guy I'm interested in over something he said this morning (which I interpreted in a way completely different from what he meant). But it's been on my mind for a while just because of the reactions of a couple of my friends when the topic came up in conversation.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Well, I hope you didn't lose friends over something like this.
(That is, I hope your friends aren't jerks).
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I actually have in the past. Not just boyfriends, some female friends, too. Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
If it makes you feel any better, it works the opposite way, too. That is, if you're more sexually aggressive/free, whatever, than some people believe a person should be, you'll lose friends over it. My point is that there are tons of people out there who value virginity, and many who don't. Personally, I've found far more women who wait for that special someone, and value their virginity, than don't. But that's just me and, with an eye to what Tom said earlier, YMMV. I think we are more apt to notice the many who don't feel as we do because it effects us much more personally. For me, it was, and is, the opposite.
I say this not to trivialize what you're going through, but because I get the sense that you seem to feel that you are some kind of wild exception to a general rule of licentiousness and are feeling somewhat upset because of it. Geoff responded to this feeling as well, I see, but I think Geoff is somewhat feeding into this perception even though he is counselling you to feel o.k. about your virginity. To repeat, there really are lots of people out there who believe that their virginity is special. You're not alone or an exception to the rule.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
pH, IMHO, if telling these friends to stop being jerks about this doesn't work, then you should just let the friendship fade away.
You are who you are, and either they were attracted to you and your personality, or they wanted somethign from you. If it's the former, they'll be okay with you telling them off, mildly, and move on. If it's the latter, then at least for now the relationship is an obvious waste of time and effort.
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pH, what the heck are you talking about?
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