This is something I have noticed as a teacher. Girls fight dirty. I would sooner jump in front of two NFL linemen fighting than two 90 pound eighth grade girls. Seriously. Girls have no restraint when they fight. They go from smiles to fists at like mach 5 speed. One broke out today and it was nothing but fists, slaps, hair, jewelery and clothes in all directions. And they don't stop. They would actually beat themselves to death, both of them bleading on the ground half dead but still swinging. Today's fight was no dofferent. They were going nuts, myself and another teacher broke it up and they just kept swinging around our heads to get to each other. Even after we seperated them they broke cover and ran at each other again cusing and screaming the whole way.
Boys are so much differnt. They circle, take off inportant jewelery, clothes and acssesories. They circle some more, then they swing once or twice hit the ground and it's usually over. No problem, we just swoop in then pick them both up and we all walk calmly down to the office. Fight over, friends again.
Has anyone else noticed this? Or is my school just crazy. NO, it's the girls that are crazy. and I mean that in the nicest way, they just can't help it.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
It's our superior skill at stamina that you saw.
No matter what, we are determined to never ever give up. (It's the trait that keeps us sane through childbirth).
Farmgirl
(who has never been in a physical fight with a girl)
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
I have just one question: exactly how far did the "clothes" thing go to ? Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
What do you teach, exactly?
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
first of all these were 8th grade girls. but... they peeled off the hundred dollar jerseys and fought in their t-shirts. nothing too exciting, thankfully.
Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
quote: nothing too exciting, thankfully
excitement is good.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
Tom - I teach 8th grade reading for the Lima City School District. Usually I am a fairly competent teacher, but have of late sucked up a bit. with the end of the year coming and my seemingly unaviodable divorce I am in total survival mode. Summer can't get here quick enough.
Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
Do you make your students read OSC?
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
My ADV class just finished reading Enders Game. I've got Enders Shadow on order to pickup today for the classroom because a great number of them have requested to be able to read it on their own. Hmm... Maybee if I promise it to a couple of people at the same time I can have another fight break out in the classroom. And this time it will be for a valid reason, OSC, and not some stupid disagreement about someone's mamma's cousin's uncle's friend.
Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
haha. don't worry, i wont tell the school board Posted by Beca (Member # 4340) on :
I think it really is the girls. As a general rule, we aren't taught effective conflict resolution because we socialize one-on-one more often, and there's often more emphasis on "finding your best friend" than "getting along" with the whole group.
Guys (as far as I've seen) tend to socialize in larger groups, with fighting as an integral part of conflict resolution. So, they get more opportunities to learn when not to fight, when to fight, and how to fight effectively when they do. Fighting well is a part of "getting along" for them.
I've noticed, since going to college and developing more friendships with guys than with girls - I went to an all-girls' high school - that guys are, on the whole, much "better" at fighting, physically and verbally, than girls are. Most girls I've seen immediately take things personally (this includes me!). Most of the things my female friends and I fight about are truly, truly dumb, and wouldn't be an issue if we were better at conflict resolution.
Of course, there are lots of exceptions - this is just a generalization. I've seen plenty of guys fight dirty, and I've seen plenty of girls who are incredibly adept at handling confrontations.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I think that the reason guys fight like they do hearkens back to the days of duels. Ofent, dueling was about honor (face, or pride), not about getting to kill the other guy. This is especially true when they duelled to first blood.
Two guys have a disagreement. They are both willing to risk their safety for it. They have a duel or a fist-fight, and one gets hurt. Honor has been fulfilled on both sides, and nobody can call them a coward, a not-man.
It might have somthing to do with what Becca said. It seems that when girls fight, they fight because they are so mad that they cannot imagine living in a universe where their adversary still exists. Guys seem to fight to "prove" that they are in the right -- the whole trial by combat idea.
Posted by UofUlawguy (Member # 5492) on :
I think that has some truth to that. As a generality, when guys fight, they want to win. When girls fight, they want to cause pain or damage.
Of course, there are guys who fight to cause pain, but we generally think of them as evil, don't we?
[ May 11, 2004, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: UofUlawguy ]
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
I'm not sure. I've been talking to my classes today about it a bit. When guys fight it's over. Right then. Because they have satisfied thier need to retaliate or save face or what ever and then it is done. The only fight I've ever been in consited of me hitting him, him hitting me and then us spending the night at his house and going on like nothing happened.
But with girls it seems to linger. I found out that this fight started last weekend with one of the girls cousin. And the two had just been stewing until it finally came to blows. And let me tell you, it really came to some crazy blows. These two were little balls of fury. With two guys it would have been handled immediately and settled just as quickly.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Most girls won't even get in a fight at all, unless they are fighting to kill.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Are you all saying Ender fought like a girl?
-Bok
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
By that characterization, yes. Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
Are these 2 girls still mad at each other or is it out of their system now?
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
Ten days from now, when I assume they will return to school, I do not doubt that they will need to be watched. the one girl, who got the better share of butt whopping, has a mouth on her that is quit seriously going to get her killed one day. She has been knocked down twice in the last four days. It's horrrible to say but I did not run to break things up. I slightly enjoyed seeing her get what she has deserved all year.
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
I think men just communicate differently then women... when men fight, its usually a few quick sharp words or a couple punches, and then everything that needs to be said has been said. Its the old joke about two men getting angry at each other, sitting on a couch watching football, not saying anything to each other, and when the games over being best friends again. Women are very verbal, in general, so when things get to the point of fist fights, its a BIG argument, and the women usually aren't friends again afterwards.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
I think girls definately fight dirtier. Have you ever noticed the tendancy for them to do a "sneak fight?" Boys don't do this. I remember when I was in high school, and about 2 lockers down one girl just ran up to another and proceeded to begin banging her head into a locker. No warning or anything. Makes me really glad I've never gotten into a fight!
space opera
Posted by MyrddinFyre (Member # 2576) on :
Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
Speaking of girl fights, I absolutly love "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon" and "Kill Bill." Hurray for girl-fights!
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Girls totally fight dirtier. I've never been in a fight, but of the times someone has tried to instigate something...well, one time, the girl walked up behind me and clocked me over the head. Twice. And then darted back to hide behind her friends when I turned around to look down at her (6' me vs. 5'5" her). Of course, I didn't really think there was anything to prove (all of the animosity was on her side, and I never really was sure why), so I didn't get into it, but if I had, it probably would've gotten very ugly very quickly. Girls have no qualms about using any and all unfair advantages, clawing, biting, etc. A lot of these things seem to be "off-limits" for guy fights.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
The girls at our school fight sissy. You know, those loose wristed slaps that don't do anything. It sort of makes me ashamed to be a girl.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
Yea, hitting below the belt is one of those big no-no's for guys but girls don't have the, well, equipment , or qualms about fighting that way. They don't have to worry about the consequenses of fighting like that. Just like everything else most women do, they will use each and every advantage they can find.
Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
If something is worth fighting over, it is worth using any means necessary to win--otherwise don't fight.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
Maybe this is a fault of us guys, everything is worth fighting over.
"what, you took the last oreo? Why you dirty son of a ... " WHACK!
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"If something is worth fighting over, it is worth using any means necessary to win...."
So you'd be right alongside, say, the World Trade Center bombing?
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
Well, Tom, didn't you see the report about Bin Ladin being upset with Bush over the whole, "That's the worst dye job ever, who does he think he's fooling" comment.
Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
quote:So you'd be right alongside, say, the World Trade Center bombing?
NO, because I don't think it is something worth fighting over.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
So you're the only one who has the moral position to decide what's worth fighting over? Other people can't decide for themselves and then apply a philosophy similar to yours to those decisions?
Posted by Alexa (Member # 6285) on :
quote: Other people can't decide for themselves and then apply a philosophy similar to yours to those decisions?
Of course they can, but once they have a *similar* philosophy, it is no longer MY philosophy.
My philosophy is based on what I think is right and wrong, so I can only speak for myself. We were talking about fighting and not killing, but I will lump them together for you.
If someone hits me twice in the face for no reason or warning and gives me a bloody nose and a black eye (yes it happened in 7th grade), then I do not think it is worth fighting for--and (in my personal experience)I did NOT fight back. I backed off, tried to de-escalate the situation (got another pop in the face), and then as the person was ranting, a teacher took us to the office. The situation was resolved and we eventually became quasi-friends of sorts. That was not worth fighting *using any means necessary to win.*
I am about to become a parent. If I see someone attempting to hurt my child I WOULD fight *using any means necessary to win.*
What constitutes something being worthy of using any means necessary to win, IMO is a universal standard of truth. My philosophy is that there is an ultimate morality given by a God of peace and love. Since it is personal, I would never seek to implement it on others, and I hope no one ever uses their individual interpretation of truth and morality as an excuse to harm me.
I guess we live in a hateful world and I am content to work out these issues with the rest of my human family. In my personal relationships tho, I would not fight at all unless I was willing to [Edit: do what it takes to] win. Ironically, that makes me a pacifist.
[ May 11, 2004, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: Alexa ]
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
But IF you thought harming America was worth fighting over (like the terrorists do) then you would agree that blowing up the Trade Centers was okay, right?
And if you thought eliminating Saddam was worth fighting over, you'd be willing to, say, rape small innocent children (or do whatever other terrible things) if they were somehow needed in order to overthrow him?
And if you felt your child was being hurt by another, you'd be willing to kill that other child if it were necessary to ensure the safety of your own?
[ May 11, 2004, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: Xaposert ]
Posted by Mabus (Member # 6320) on :
Gah...thanks for derailing the thread, folks.
I was going to comment on how back in my day I never saw girls fighting in the halls (to my great distress).
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
quote:Do you make your students read OSC?
Didn't OSC demonstrate in Ender's Game that the only way to fight is to fight to the death?
Anyway, I liked this girl in my high school art class a long time ago. We often sat together while painting. One day while I was painting I looked over, and she was cutting saw teeth edges into her fingernails. I asked why she was doing that, and she said that she had a fight after school, and she was going to rake the other girl's face with her claws. She said that she enjoyed fighting after school.
I liked tough girls, but not that tough.
Posted by Avadaru (Member # 3026) on :
Girlfights are hot.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
As I think about it, I realize that both of the fights I have been in started more like "girl" fights.
In the first fight (8th grade), I didn't realize that I was in a fight until the other guy kicked me in the nuts. The fight was over at the same time.
In the second fight (12th grade), I turned around and the guy socked me in the face without any warning. This time, it turned out better than the first time. I got him in a head-lock and told him "If I wish it, your face is hamburger. You are beaten. The fight is over. OK?"
The funny thing, though, is that there were no witnesses. I did not injure him after beating him, but I got a big black eye from his initial strike. I didn't share with others what had happened, so everybody thought I had lost the fight. But at least I never had to deal with crap from that guy again.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
I'll never forget the first time I got kicked in the nads. It was on a cubscouts trip out to a bird refuge of some sort. This kid in my troop just cocks his leg up in the back of the station wagon and lets loose on my junk for no apparent reason.
I woulda said "what gives?", but I was too busy trying to fold myself into the most compact tearless form I could.
fallow
Posted by Book (Member # 5500) on :
I've never actually hit someone, but I did grab a guy by the balls one time when he was yelling at me at frisbee. I just did it on total impulse; no one even knew what had happened. I felt kinda bad about it, but the guy was acting like such a jerk to me that I also felt pretty cool.
Posted by fallow (Member # 6268) on :
hey book?
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
I think guys were given such a sensitive reason to act as a kind of MAD (mutal assured dustruction). You never want to go to far because you know once you do, your opponent will go for that weapon and then BAM! Your out on the ground crying like a little pre-school girl.
In general, I have noticed a tendency in school for girls to hang onto grudges much longer than boys do. (as in, forEVER)They tend to stew and plot and plan, whereas boys, generally, get angry, let it out, and let it go.
Middle school girls are also masters at nonverbal communication that is much more evil than any actual fight can be. The eye roll. The turning of the back. Getting up as a group(planned through a series of note-passing in class) when an unliked or unpopular girl comes to the lunch table. Secretly spitting in food and then offering it to a girl, watching her eat it, and then telling her it was spit on. (this happened last week)
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
quote: Girlfights are hot.
Oh, I like Jane.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
quote:[Girls] tend to stew and plot and plan, whereas boys, generally, get angry, let it out, and let it go.
This is NOT always true, though. Does that mean those guys who hold a grudge are pretty girly? I think so.
[ May 12, 2004, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Kat,
That is why I said "generally." (smile)
Liz
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
What is so hot about two girls screaming and hurting each other? If you think a real girlfight (and not a staged one) is hot, then you have some serious issues.
Girls do fight dirty. Remember my "Being weird" thread? That girl who was hurt by all the nonverbal crap was me. I still cringe around women, and avoid social situations like the teacher's workroom. I'd rather not see the women talking about me behind my back. I'd rather stay in my room and work than make small talk I really don't care about and talk about my Family, which is sacred to me. I don't want to share what my husband and I did over the weekend, or my daughter's latest medical ailment is. That stuff is private, for my friends or people with whom I'm feeling comfortable.
I hate being a girl sometimes. I want to learn to fight like a guy, although at this point I very much fight like a girl. I want to survive, and sometimes that means fighting with claws and teeth and kicking the gonads. But I won't use ripping reputations or shunning.
Posted by Mabus (Member # 6320) on :
Jenny, you are absolutely right. Real fights, regardless of who is involved in them, are not "hot", and I should not have indicated that the discussion should go in that direction. (With staged fights, sometimes matters are different, as you implied. ) I should be careful to indicate when my tongue is in my cheek. ....Hey, where's the smiley for that?
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I rarely, rarely ever see boys fighting. If there's been a fight at school, and everyone's talking about it, it's almost always girls. If there's a verbal fight or verbal angst, it's almost always girls also, although it may be girl-boy (in that case it's the boy that finishes it, i.r. gives in and apologises, tries to laugh it off)
People always think of boys as the violent ones, but whenever I see someone lashing out in a harmful way (verbally or physically) it's almost always a girl.
Perhaps this issue needs addressing?
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Jenny, I feel your teacher's room pain! Yikes. When I walk in there, I feel like I am back in middle school myself. Teshi, on another thread about women in the military(or the draft, which became about women in the military), I remember thinking/saying how scary it would be to have an army of women. I joked about women menstruating simultaneously when they live together(which is really true). But I really do think it would be scary to have an army of women. (I also read "The Last Amazon," by Steven Pressfield-yikes) Can I be a feminist and, at the same time, hate being in large groups of women? It has been an issue I have struggled with for a very, very long time. Liz, Grown-up Tomboy
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote: Can I be a feminist and, at the same time, hate being in large groups of women?
This is almost exactly how I feel. I detest being in groups of all girls. I can more easily (though there is still a problem) tolerate all-male groups.
For some reason, in a group of all-girls together, especially a group that may not necessarily be friends, merely together by circumstance or business, there is a combination of brain-melting girlyness, snittyness and huge competition. In a group of all males there is immaturaty (sp?) and dumbness, but that combination is hardly ever so... explosive.
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
I was always a scrapper in school.In first grade, this boy grabbed me by the arm and wouldn't let go. I was getting an indian burn from trying to twist away from him. So, I bit the hand that was hurting me. Boy cried like a baby, and I got sent to the school counsellor. When I told her what happened, she just said, "but isn't that just the way boys play?"
From that, I learned that they thought him hurting me was okay, but me fighting back was bad. So, basically, any reason I had to listen to anything they said just flew right out the window. The next time a girl teased me (hiding behind a tree, then sticking her tongue out at me and hiding again) I hit her in the eye with a peice of gravel. It hurt, but she didn't get a black eye or anything. I guess I've always had great aim with projectiles.
Anyway, they sent me to a shrink. The shrink saw that the teachers had lost all moral authority in my eyes when they didn't care that I was hurt. And that I was smart and not being challenged enough academically. He wantedthem to skip me, but the folks wouldn't.
I didn't really have any more figts for a while. My next two fights were with boys. One hit and they were running, one probably because he didn't want to hit a girl. The other one started the fight, so I assume he had no such qualms.
My fighting career was over by 4th grade. That doesn't mean I never had the urge to scratch somebody's eyes out. I just didn't. Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I did get sent the principal's office in the second grade for having a girl fight in the lunch room. I don't remember what it was for, but I do remember concluding that people are idiots and should be avoided. No more physical fights.
I vehemently disagree with the characterization of boys and girls in here, though. Out of three brothers, two of them hold grudges, fight passive/aggressively, and are too much of pansies to just deal with something and then let it go.
Edit: *laugh* I often leave out the verb in sentences. It's like by the time I trascribe it, my brain's churned it so many times the verb seems to be so fundamental it doesn't need to be stated.
[ May 13, 2004, 03:34 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
You what vehmenantly, katharina? You missed out the critical word... my guess is you disagree, but I'm not 100% sure...
[ May 12, 2004, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: Teshi ]
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I disagree too with this stereotype. It's just wrong, in my experience.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
"I can more easily (though there is still a problem) tolerate all-male groups."
You know, I think the issue for me might be more of a large group issue. I can think of groups of women that I like, and groups of men that I have hated to be in. I like small groups or one on one time.
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