This is topic Do parents lighten up in discipline based on gender and number of Children? in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.
Just curious. It really ticks me off how differently my youngest brother is being treated compared to the way I was treated at the same age.
But, when I complain, everyone goes, but you are the oldest, and a girl.
For example, at the age of 19 (I realize it is over the legal age of adulthood) he bought his own plane tickets to Florida without telling my parents, and is now roadtripping with a couple of friends from school, from West Palm Beach Florida, to New York. They don't have plans on how they are going to get from point at to point B or where they are staying and they can't even rent a car until a 3rd friend over the age of 25 arrives later in the week. (Of course he didn't inform my mother of the lack of plans, I still don't know how he got away with this.) The friends that he has are also people that my parents would never have approved of for me. (And they still attempted to approve or disapprove of my friends at age 19. I couldn't have dated if I wanted to.)
At the same age, my parents threw a hissy fit when I roadtripped from Norman, OK to Colorado Springs, CO to visit my grandfather over a spring break!
I try not to be bitter, but sometimes it just gets to me.
AJ (edit for wierd non-sentences)
[ May 21, 2004, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Especially in large families, the younger children are often given more freedoms than the older children. I am the oldest, and I have seen the gradation through my four brothers.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
My family only has three children. But you are telling me the restrictions are entirely gender independent?
But, m_p_h as a parent yourself how do you rectify the situation in your own household?
AJ
Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
Gender matters, but I have a feeling different families will have stricter rules for boys in many cases. The "oldest child" syndrome is 100% true however.
Not that it matters (shorting of roadtripping in order to spend parent-donated tuition money at the roulette table).
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
I think that parents tend to be more protective of the oldest child. By the second, you figure out that kids don't break all that easily. As far as the gender question, I can see that. My youngest is a girl, and my husband has already made a few comments about how she's not going to be allowed to date - but our son is. He was just kidding, of course, but I know he's already dreading dealing with it.
As far as discipline, our kids are only 3 years apart, and they receive pretty much the same discipline. However, I know it's going to be a lot harder to release freedoms to our son as they grow simply because he's the oldest and it's the first time we'll have done it.
space opera
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
It's funny that you should mention this today, AJ. Because I was just thinking of writing a tongue-in-cheek memo to my children stating that different siblings in the same family are never treated exactly the same, no matter how much your parents may (or may not) have tried to make things "equal."
I can't account for the difference in how you and your siblings are treated, of course. It may be a gender difference, in your case, or it may just be that parents are more relaxed with a younger child of the family. I do agree with Space Opera that parents may be more protective with an older child, as well.
In my case, I deal with my children according to the level of responsibility that I feel they have -the more responsible child in this case would definitely be the daughter, not the son, though he is improving. Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
Anna, you just have to keep a good sense of humor about it.
My sister gets away with TONS more than I did, but while I think a lot of it is parental, some of it is that the younger siblings learn early on how to get what they want and so are better at sweet-talking parents.
Posted by Dead_Horse (Member # 3027) on :
And it explains the photo album phenomenon.
There are always tons of pictures of the first child. There are usually fewer pictures of each succeeding child. The last few kids in a large family are hard pressed to find more than a few pictures of themselves when they were small.
I always chalked it up to parents reduction in energy as they age and more children are born and a lower budget for photography as more kids are in need of food, clothes, and shoes. And the novelty of new babies wears off.
Being an oldest child and female, I can relate to the differences in treatment, priviledges, and responsibilities between siblings. Growing up, it seemed to me that my brother one year younger got all the cool stuff he wanted.
I also have the disadvantage of the perspective of age. I see that the youngest were treated more leniently. They have no idea how I was treated at the ages they are now. I was already an adult when they were born.
When the first is born, it is to young parents just establishing themselves in jobs. When the last is born, Dad has finished his education and been promoted in his career to a level of more financial comfort.
Of course, these generalities may not apply to everyone equally. Your mileage may vary....
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Blake Sheltons song, The Baby kind of defines this whole phenomenon.
quote:I guess she [mother] was tired by the time I came along. She'd laugh until she cried, I could do no wrong. She would always save me, because I was her baby.
and
quote:She looked like she was sleepin' and my family had been weepin' by the time that I got to her side. And I knew that she'd been taken, and my heart it was breakin', I never got to say goodbye.
I softly kissed that lady and cried just like a baby
Posted by MyrddinFyre (Member # 2576) on :
Banna, I have the same exact problem. Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
My sister and I had much stricter rules than my brother. She's the oldest, at 9 years older than me. My brother is 6 years older than me.
Both my sister and I had 10 pm curfews on weekends, not allowed out on weekday nights. My brother could go out till relatively late (midnight, 1 am) as long as he told my mom. He was often late even then, but my mom didn't get _that_ mad at him. He was allowed to spend the night at friends' houses, while my sister and I weren't allowed to after 6th grade or so.
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
I could get away with bloody murder compared to my other siblings. A lot of that had to do with the fact that Mom's expressions of disappointment would cripple my siblings but just wash off of me. Which, I guess, made me harder to control.
Man, thinking about this is depressing. I've taken ruthless advantage of my family. Thanks, AJ.
*shakes fist*
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Yes, I would say I'm much easier on my youngest than on my two others.
I think part of it comes about because, unfortunately, our oldest is always our "learning curve". By the time we are dealing with similar situations with our youngest, we have learned to "pick our battles", not sweat some small stuff that may have bothered us just a few years prior with the oldest.
My youngest is my only girl. I probably DO allow her more responsibility at her age now (14) than her brothers had at that age, but only because she really IS more responsible. And she, by her own character, is more independent -- not nearly as "needy" as my boys have been. I admire that in her. Sometimes she gets to do things the boys didn't get to, simply because she ASKS to -- they would never have thought to ask because they would be sure I would say no.
Of course, my oldest is also very mature -- now getting ready for his junior year of college at age 18, so he's had to grow up fast. But he never really seemed to WANT the independence that my youngest one does.
And the middle child? <SIGH> Well, I think he will always live at home and act like he is an immature 7 year old. I don't give him any breaks, because he always abuses or neglects any responsibilities I try to give him.
So with me, I don't think it is gender as much as it is the personality of the child, and definately I'm mellowing as I get older.
Farmgirl
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
I didn't observe any of this in my familly, but it has probably to do with the fact that my brother and I are separated by just one year. So we kind of grew up at the same time. With him using my homeworks to better his, but that's another story Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Banna, I've already been convinced that your parents are just a wee bit irrational. That being said, I think it is true that there is a big difference in how the oldest and youngest are treated. I have been reflecting on this recently, thinking about how when a new child was born into the family, it put an end to thinking of the previous youngest as the "baby". But when the child is the absolute youngest, that event never happens. I always told myself that I would not let myself "baby" the youngest. But as I grow older and wiser (ha!) I think that to tell myself I can stop myself from doing that %100 is impossible and goes against human nature.
I will still do my best, but I just know that when I have had my last child and I know it, there will be an emotional bond there that will resist rational thought. It will be just below conscious thought and so will be difficult to combat. There will be a part of me that mourns the end of the reproductive stage of my life. An aging "baby of the family" will represent my own aging self. Babying my "baby" will, irrationaly, recreate a younger time for me.
As for treating children differently based on gender, I believe that the genders are different and to some extent should be treated differently. I try to keep those differences "healthy" and subdued. I think that a more important reason for treating children differently is to tailor parenting to that specific child and their personality.
When I go "easy" on my daughter Athena, I don't think it is so much because she is a girl, but because she does not have the streak of belligerent defiance that her older brother, Sanford has. (Or maybe it is because she is *such* a girl! LOL) She has very tender emotions, and so she can't handle harshness as well. Ivy, our baby (and also a girl) won't be nearly so sensitive and will be better suited to take it. I can tell already she will be more thick-skinned.
I am not in favor of "spoiling" girls so that they learn that they can give you a certain look and charm you into letting them have their way. I want my girls to grow up armed with the ability to think logically and my sons to be in touch with their emotions. But I do think I have different expectations for sons and daughters according to an innate belief that certain roles tend to compliment each gender. I am not sure I can define those expectations, but I do think the way I treat my children is guided by that.
Example: Sanford loves to fight. Any kind of fighting. He is constantly trying to get Athena to play-fight with him. I remind him that she is a girl and that she doesn't like fighting so much. She doesn't. On the other hand, my son Sanford has "wrestled" with baby Ivy since she was, like, 3 months old. And I thought that was cool. She seems to like it. Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
dkw has 6 photo albums, I have one, and I don't think BpW has any. There are pictures, but not put into albums, and certainly not as many. I'm less than 2 years younger than dkw, and while I'm concious of her breaking trail on a number of things, I don't think there was too much difference in our treatment. BpW, on the other hand, is 4 years younger than me, and I think he got away with murder. Well, maybe manslaughter. But I know a lot of it has to do with our temperments, too.
Of course, I think we were all pretty spoiled. (Mom, if you're lurking, please note that I'm not complaining!)
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Oh bev, the irrationality of my parents is a given. But a lot of people seem to accept what happens as far as age order and freedom as a given without thinking about it further.
AJ
Posted by MyrddinFyre (Member # 2576) on :
Last year my brother (16 months younger than me and two grades below) was allowed to drive himself and a bunch of friends up to Six Flags. (edited to add: this is a three hour or so trek). I am still not allowed to drive to Providence, regardless of whether or not there will be others in the car. This is a twenty minute drive we're talking about. I can't figure out if its gender or age... or just the fact that my mom bonded a lot with my brother when he was a baby. And I'm just the practice round? I don't get it
[ May 21, 2004, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: MyrddinFyre ]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
There was a period in my life that my parents gave me very little slack. But that was mostly because I had proven myself to be dishonest and untrustworthy.
As for my strategy for not being too strict with my oldest vs. my younger children ...... I don't have a strategy. I do my best. I don't know how to be a good parent. All I know how to do is try. It scares me when I think about it. Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
* grins at Kris *
I went on a trip with a friend up the eastern shore of VA so he could visit his girlfriend. We left at 7 am and returned around 9 pm. It's a 3.5 hour drive each way. Never told my parents.
Nor do I really tell my parents that I've been to Albany, Lenox, NYC, Bar Harbor, and Brattleboro in the last few years.
Posted by MyrddinFyre (Member # 2576) on :
mr porteiro, just the fact that you think and care about it makes me think that you must be doing a fine job as a parent Posted by peter the bookie (Member # 3270) on :
*waves at bev*
long time, no see.
and bobble is apparently my little sister. gah!
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Peter:
Yeah, I've been *ahem* spending some time away from my addiction, wanting to come back, but afraid of getting "sucked in" again. Moderation in all things.
Posted by peter the bookie (Member # 3270) on :
yeah, i've almost asked in a couple of threads porter's posted on, but i figured you'd be back eventually.
you might be my favorite newbie.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I hope so. It's really scary.
edit: I am replying to MyrddinFyre
[ May 21, 2004, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Whoo-hoo, I have a fan! Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
beverly, do we have the same kids?
Seriously, Matthew is sooo defiant, mouthy, and belligerent. (Can you tell we've had a bad day). I think in part I may have done that do him, b/c at the beginning of my parenting journey I bought into a lot of the "non coercive" steer manure that seemed to go along with natural parenting. Big mistake. So I, for one, have gotten stricter. Olivia is difficult in her own way, because she lives in her own version of reality. She thinks she is a fairy princess and plays and talks to the various fey, so we have to relate to her on her own terms. (Dh actually walked out to the raspberry canes once to "tell the fairies" that Olivia couldn't play with them for a week....)
And Andrew, well he is almost two, what else do I need to say?
My Gram had two kids, 9 years apart, my mom being younger. My aunt got knocked up then married her senior year, which turned my gram rather strict with my mom. IN turn my mother gave me no rules at all. I have tried to do better, which caused my mother to tell me I was a "mean mother". Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Huzzah for "mean mothers"!
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Ooh, here's a really annoying example of what you're talking about.
I lived with my best friend through high school because my home life wasn't very good, but that's beside the point.
She (Bobbi) was 17, a junior, a straight-A student, no boyfriends, no trouble, and very responsible and respectful. Once her mom let her use the credit card to buy her school clothes and gave her a $500 limit. Bobbi only spent $200.
Her curfew? Midnight.
Her sister (Ellen) was an eighth-grader with mediocre grades, super-popular, always getting in trouble, and was running around with boys. One night, when the parents were gone, she had about fifteen boys come over and most of them fell asleep together on the floor. When Bobbi and I came in, Ellen was making out with one of the boys in the middle of the pile. We had never seen the boy before and it wasn't her boyfriend. Another time, she went to spend the night at a friend's house, and then went with her friends to a club she had been forbade to go to.
Her curfew? 2 am.
This was at the exact same time. Bobbi begged her mother to give her the same curfew as Ellen, which would have been fair, considering she had never gotten into trouble before, and I would know. Her Mom basically said, "I'm sick of you always telling me I treat Ellen better than you!" We could never get her to change the curfew.
o_O Ellen was the youngest, of course.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I am the oldest; my sister, the youngest, is 12 years younger than I am. When I (or the brother 2 years my junior) comment on what the youngest gets away with, my parents admit to being more mellow -- which seems to be code for older (and maybe wiser).
As far as my kids, I do my best; but they are so different (in ways similar to what beverly and romanylass described) that there are differences in how they need to be treated. Sometimes that's fair, and sometimes not. (My parents acknowledge that on those rare occasions that my middle brother -- who has always been close to angelic -- messed up, he got disciplined far more strictly than another kid might have for the same infraction. Not terribly fair, but since he's an even more amazing and special person now than he was as a kid, it doesn't seem to have done any lasting damage. )
The other thing to keep in mind (and I try to emphasize this to my oldest, who honestly does end up with more than her share of chores, simply because she can DO more things than her younger sibs) is that the oldest also often gets more privileges. Only my oldest came with me to Israel last year, for example.
Is it fair overall? As an oldest, I think it may not be -- but then again, life ain't fair. Didn't your parents ever teach you that? Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
my brother graduated high school four months after I was born. So I have basically been raised as an only child (he is my mom's, his dad died when he was four). Mom says she had more energy raising him but was calmer with me. He was allowed to do just about whatever he wanted, whenever. I barely go out, but when I do my curfew is midnight, by his senior year in high school he was delivering pizza's until 4 in the morning. Tonight is the first night I will be at a co-ed sleep over, so I think they are stricter with me, but I am the easily hurt girly girl.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
It would not surprise me at all if your mom, if I'm remembering correctly, feels a girl is more vulnerable out on her own like that. In my parenting I'll be protective of both boys and girls equally. Consider that more boys are born than girls, and then through the process of boys being (forgive me) more reckless, there are fewer of them by the time any give age cohort reaches 40.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
*tries to imagine ever letting any of her kids go to a co-ed sleepover*
Posted by peter the bookie (Member # 3270) on :
man, those were all the rage when i was in highschool.
i actually had one, of sorts, but it was really an all night post prom party.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Mom is less strict with me than my brother. I'm her first child. Dad is way more paranoid about something happening to me. I'm his younger daughter, the 3rd of 4 children.
Stupid fathers.
Fortunately, I never had a curfew in high school. Whatever my mom said, my dad mostly went along with. I don't have any idea what she said to him when I started sleeping over at boys'/boyfriends' houses.
[ May 22, 2004, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: pH ]
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
Our kids will be lucky if we let them go to a college with a co ed dorm.
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That being said, I think it is true that there is a big difference in how the oldest and youngest are treated. I have been reflecting on this recently, thinking about how when a new child was born into the family, it put an end to thinking of the previous youngest as the "baby". But when the child is the absolute youngest, that event never happens. I always told myself that I would not let myself "baby" the youngest. But as I grow older and wiser (ha!) I think that to tell myself I can stop myself from doing that %100 is impossible and goes against human nature. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
LOL) She has very tender emotions, and so she can't handle harshness as well. Ivy, our baby (and also a girl) won't be nearly so sensitive and will be better suited to take it. I can tell already she will be more thick-skinned.![[Wave]](graemlins/wave.gif)
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