Yesterday Katharina started a thread featuring a talk by Elder Ballard of the LDS Church. I jumped in and ruined it and sent it in the wrong direction from where Katharina wanted to go.
I'm sorry. I was an insensitive jerk.
I would like to see that discussion started again. I would like to see what kind of consensus we can build.
If you want to resume that discussion here, then I'll sit back and not interfere. I'll change the thread title if you like to reflect the direction of the thread.
In keeping with Elder Ballard's counsel however, I would ask that Mormons not use the words "non-member" or "non-Mormon" in this discussion. (It would be great if those terms disappeared from Hatrack altogether.) Also if people could refer to themselves as what they are: Buddhist, Baptist, etc., rather than what they are not, we can keep a more positive atmosphere in the discussion.
I agree with Katharina that we need to do some building. If you chose to do it here, please let the first few posts be devoted to establishing some ground rules.
If this is a bad idea, then I'm still sorry about yesterday.
Posted by skrika03 (Member # 5930) on :
I take it the thread in question is now deleted?
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
Yes, it was deleted. Here is a link to the talk by Elder Ballard:
You didn't miss anything by that thread being deleted. Unfortunately, I derailed it almost immediately.
Edit: I mean other than the initial three posts before mine you didn't miss anything.
[ June 08, 2004, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: skillery ]
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
I think the direction Katharina wanted to go with the thread was:
"What can Hatrackers learn and apply from Elder Ballard's address that would benefit our interactions in this community?"
Please forgive me Katharina, if still didn't get it right.
Elder Ballard's talk was broadcast openly to the world with the intent to be of benefit to all people. We should be able to find other quotes from people of various faiths regarding the topic of inclusion and acceptance.
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
quote:Let’s be frank up front. The exercise is not one of trying to convert others but of finding how to live side by side with those who hold beliefs different from our own. We can not play the game of religious “gotcha!”, of letting someone explain their deepest beliefs for a few minutes, and then turn their language on them and say “ ‘Gotcha!’, only our position is true.” Conversion, if it takes place, will be convergence, the coming together of people who respond to the faith radiating from others and react in kind and this in turn will lead all participants to a new place.
From an excellent address given by the Rev. Dr. Frederick Quinn, Priest Associate at All Saints’ Episcopal Church, Salt Lake City.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I think it isn't a good way to discuss this sort of thing when you just spout off doctrine instead of speaking from the heart. The doctrine isn't the doctrine of other faiths. Also, just quoting doctrine doesn't really speak for putting much effort into understanding and compassion for others on your own part.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
So mack, what do you think about it?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
About what?
I don't think this thread should be on skillery's terms. Kinda defeats the purpose, ne?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
edit: because I didn't like it
[ June 08, 2004, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
As I'm coming up to speed on this idea of convergence, I was just reading a homilie by Bishop George Niederauer of the Cathedral of the Madeleine here in Salt Lake City, and one thought came into my head (heart?) as I was reading: this gentleman has the Spirit of God.
I thought that if I had to move to a faraway land, and there was no congregation of my own faith, I would definitely attend with another faith, especially one presided over by Bishop Niederauer.
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
I think it would be cool for anyone to feel welcome in anyone else's church. Bring your own set of scriptures, be able to read aloud from them if invited.
When I attended Dana's Bible study class, we all brought our own scriptures. Some of the words were different from one set of scriptures to the next. We all got something different out of the same verses. We were all allowed to share our viewpoints. Nobody got upset. Everybody learned something new. Everybody felt the Spirit. It was a huge success. Let's do it again!
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
Skillery, While I wasn't offended by your obvious enthusiasm for your professed ideology I'm wondering if your simple heartfelt apology is quite enough. Oh well, I for one think you may be pressing a bit much this time trying to atone.
I am curious tho if anyone that wasn't a Mormon felt ostracized or pressured by anything you posted.
Posted by Mabus (Member # 6320) on :
I for one was not offended or bothered by Skillery's posts; I totally understand her feelings.
But since I remember people being offended by me for similar reasons not too many years ago, I understand why some people might be antsy.
Posted by skrika03 (Member # 5930) on :
I guess I'm still lacking a frame of reference here, though I do remember the talk by Elder Ballard.
Was the idea of the topic that it doesn't matter what religion we are or aren't, or was it about clique-ish-ness here on Hatrack?
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
I believe the discussion is continuing here.
Posted by skrika03 (Member # 5930) on :
Oh, well I think the subject of intra-Hatrack-clique-ish-ness is also due for an airing out.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Huh?
Posted by skrika03 (Member # 5930) on :
Well, it could just be me.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
No, what do you MEAN?
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :