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Christians look to form 'new nation' within U.S.
Same-sex marriage called last straw prompting plan for 1 state to secede

Posted: May 24, 2004
By Joe Kovacs

One less star?

Calling the approval of same-sex marriage in Massachusetts "the straw that broke the camel's back," a group of Christian activists is in the beginning stages of an effort to have one state secede from the United States to become its own sovereign nation.

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The plan initially calls for at least 12,000 Christians willing to be active in political campaigns to move to the Palmetto State.

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If all goes according to plan, Burnell is hoping to have a constitutional convention by 2014, with a president of the new nation – still to be known as South Carolina – elected in 2016, which is also a presidential election year in the U.S.

He says the nation would be founded on Christian principles, and the people writing its constitution would have to hash out details to safeguard it as a Christian republic.

For now, Burnell prefers to shy away from specifics on the precise laws governing the country.

"Independence first, details later," he says.

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Christians have actively tried to return the United States to their moral foundations for more than 20 years. We now have a "Christian" president, a "Christian" attorney general, and a Republican Congress and Supreme Court. Yet consider this:

• Abortion continues unabated
• Sodomite marriage is now legal in Massachusetts (and coming soon to a neighborhood near you)
• Children still may not pray in our schools
• Our schools continue to teach the clearly discredited theory of Darwinian evolution
• The Bible is still not welcome in schools except under unconstitutional strict FEDERAL guidelines
• The 10 Commandments remain banned from public display
• Sodomy is now legal AND celebrated as "diversity" rather than perversion
• Preaching Christianity will soon be outlawed as "hate speech"
• Attempts at reform have proven futile. Future elections will not stop the above atrocities, but rather will exacerbate them and lead us down an even more deadly path.

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Anyone from South Carolina hear anything about this? Any idea if anyone will seriously do this? (I doubt it, but I'm curious.)
I'm actually sympathetic to the idea of states seceding for political reasons -- I tend to think that small is beautiful and that smaller countries can be more democratic -- but I'm not sympathetic to the idea of South Carolina becoming a Christian theocracy...
 

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Posted by Pod (Member # 941) on :
 
Just imagine, our own little Iran!
 

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Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
 
Maybe they can form an alliance with the Conch Republic.
 

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Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
 
Two questions.

1. Would the current residents of South Carolina go for it?

2. Would the U.S. government allow South Carolina to secede?
 

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Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
 
So long as the lines at the borders don't add to much driving time to my Florida trips, sounds good to me.

(Remember guys, it's WND...)
 

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Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
 
The real question is, will they let married gay people in as tourists?

space opera
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Removing a large number of ignorant fundamentalists from the national voting pool at the cost of one of our most useless states would seem like a very beneficial trade, and a cost I'd be willing to endure.
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Weren't the libertarians or someone trying to do this in Vermont or New Hampshire? If it was a link to the Onion I wouldn't have been surprised to find it a spoof. On the other hand it sounds typically rabid.

AJ
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
If I recall correctly, the Libertarians were just wanting to move a small North Eastern state in large enough numbers to be able to effect it's elections. They didn't want to acutally secede from the union.
 

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Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
 
It was Vermont, and AFAIK the effort is still ongoing.
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
Right, right, Vermont.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
The thing is, the effort is doomed to fail. There's not a devoted Libertarian in Vermont who, when witnessing the sudden skyrocketing of real estate values, wouldn't immediately put his house on the market -- thus defeating the point of the exercise.
 

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Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
 
Actually, it was New Hampshire.

Something about that "Live Free or Die" motto.

And they weren't trying to secede, but to concentrate their political power in a way to have some sort of electoral (and electoral college) experience.

-Bok
 

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Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
 
Yup, NH it is. http://www.freestateproject.com/index.jsp

Vermont is stuck in my brain because of Dean.
 

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Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
The road to factionalism in the United States continues to roll. I see a day, how close or far in the distance I cannot say, when the U.S. will break into balkanization according to ideology and religion. It has already happened at an emotional level. That usually, if sustained, leads to a physical level that can lead to war. And, this time it won't be a Civil War, but Anarchy.

I believe that the United States, according to its current path, only has about 100 years left.
 

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Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
 
Well, it wouldn't be THAT hard to fix. For example, if we had proportional voting, dispersed minorities wouldn't need to relocate in order to have their votes count.
 

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Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
 
In the meantime, how many people would support rounding up libertarian secessionists in New Hampshire, religious secessionists in South Carolina and then locking them all together in a room for a very few days?

The deal? They get their independent state, but they only get ONE and they have to share it. And we won't let them out until they agree on a constitution.

And, of course, we film it.

OK - if this turns up on the fall schedule as the newest reality show, I want you all to support me when I claim to have originated this idea.
 

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Posted by Occasional (Member # 5860) on :
 
I am not sure how "proportional voting" would work. Partly, because I am not sure what proportion you are talking about. Second, if you mean what I think you mean than the idea of equality as its currently understood would have to be discarded and be replaced by profiling.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 

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The road to factionalism in the United States continues to roll. I see a day, how close or far in the distance I cannot say, when the U.S. will break into balkanization according to ideology and religion. It has already happened at an emotional level. That usually, if sustained, leads to a physical level that can lead to war. And, this time it won't be a Civil War, but Anarchy.

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quote:

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The road to factionalism in the United States continues to roll. I see a day, how close or far in the distance I cannot say, when the U.S. will break into balkanization according to ideology and religion. It has already happened at an emotional level. That usually, if sustained, leads to a physical level that can lead to war. And, this time it won't be a Civil War, but Anarchy.

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This is hillarious though, because both sides are actually supposed to be following an ideology where they know they aren't supposed to persecute people.

Amazing what the need to define your group, and then being annoyed by anyone outside of that definition will do to a perfectly good ideology.

[ June 10, 2004, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: Chaz_King ]
 

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Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 

 

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Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
 

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Second, if you mean what I think you mean than the idea of equality as its currently understood would have to be discarded and be replaced by profiling.

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Proportional voting is very simple. Right now, if North Carolina votes 60% Republican and 40% Democrat, then all of its electoral votes go to the GOP. In a proportional system, they would go 60/40. The same principle can be applied to legislative seats. The vast majority of the world's democracies use some variation on this theme, in fact.
 

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Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
I would support proportional voting for the electoral college, but not for congress.
 

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Posted by Fishtail (Member # 3900) on :
 
Aren't there too many McDonald's in America for there to be a war? Or does that not work at the intra-national level, only on the international level?
 

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Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
Again, I must say
 

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Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 
All we have to do is not give Nevada more water and it will just dry up and float away into the deserrt again....they already use more than their share of the Colorado, and there are some very serious challanges to their rights to the water they already use.

I'll see if I can find the articles I was reading about that, and if I can (I doubt it, ot was 2 years ago, at least) then I'll post it. It was pretty interesting, really.

Oh, BTW, people have been saying they were going to do this sort of thing for years, since before we were even a country. I'm sure it will work as well as it did the last time some ido=iots tried it....



Kwea
 

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Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
 
This is SO wierd!
Laughable actually.
Is this actually real?

I'm sure Cory Burnell would like to be it's supreme leader too... I find it funny that a few people moving there will actually convince the State Government to seceed. Hah.
 

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Posted by RRR (Member # 6601) on :
 
Gah. I was planning on moving to Beaufort at some distant point in the future. That's not gonna happen if it turns into a theocracy. Way to ruin my plans, South Carolina.

edit:
Also, Tom said

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one of our most useless states

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Why? The last time, we had a civil war, not anarchy. You think we are less stable now?

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It has as much worth as any other state of similar population size.

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Heh. I agree completely. South Carolina, on the bell curve of geography, does a fine job being as worthless as most other states.
 

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Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
It's always hard to tell who's more arrogant about their state - New Yorkers or Californians.

Dagonee
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Eh, Texans. New Yorkers and Californians still talk like they have something to prove.
 

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Posted by Jalapenoman (Member # 6575) on :
 
Quote: It's always hard to tell who's more arrogant about their state - New Yorkers or Californians.

You obviously have not met too many Texans!

Texas, by the way, came into the United States with the right to leave if they wished. Texas was an independent country (under five different presidents) for ten years before joining the U.S.A..

Reconstruction in Texas was more civil than anywhere else in the south because of this provision.

As a part of the reconstruction, the agreement that allowed Texas to leave the Union was removed.

Texas still has the right, however, to divide up into as many as five states if it chooses (done back at the time of admission into the union because the state was so big and used to include most of New Mexico and parts of Colorado, Utah, and Idaho). Just think, Texas with ten senators!
 

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Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
 
I miss South Carolina deeply. For all the truly awful baggage the South carries around, there is a great deal about Southern culture that is beautiful. In many ways, I still wish the economy had not made it necessary for me to move away. I'm not defending this article. I'm dissenting with those who think South Carolina is worthless. South Carolina is a beautiful place with mild seasons, a broad variety of landscapes, and people who are, by and large, generous and warm-hearted. And I would rather live in South Carolina than in more "sophisticated" places like California and Wisconsin any day.
 

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Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
It can't be coincidence that the South Park Civil War Reenactment episode is on right now.

Dagonee
 

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Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :
 

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The real question is, will they let married gay people in as tourists?

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The real question is would gay couples (or individuals or whatever) want to GO there as tourists? None too safe, I would think.

My wife and I did our honeymoon at a tiny bed and breakfast in Charleston. Very sweet and the old flavor of that part of town was cool (we even had period actors wandering around at the time...as they were filming the awful "Scarlett" TV movie at the time). Anyway, things really haven't changed a lot in attitudes. People talked to us two white folk as if we got their racist jokes or racially snide remarks, most from our bed and breakfast hostess (and don't get me going on the stupid squeeking bed ). I would miss seeing the Yorktown without a passport, but feh...let them go.

fil
 

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Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
 


[that's directed at the south park comment]

[ June 10, 2004, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: mackillian ]
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
Skillery: "My crystal ball says that there will eventually be anarchy in the Western United States over the allocation of Colorado River water. Water rights in the west is a very big deal, probably bigger than a Christian movement opposing gay marriage."

Water is so important. It will be the thing the whole world fights for.

Icarus: "South Carolina is a beautiful place with mild seasons, a broad variety of landscapes, and people who are, by and large, generous and warm-hearted"

So true. There is such a deep honesty in the South.
 

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Posted by Misha McBride (Member # 6578) on :
 

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It's always hard to tell who's more arrogant about their state - New Yorkers or Californians.

You obviously have not met too many Texans!

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We don't need to brag on how great our state is... everyone should know it already.
 

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Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
Virginian, right?
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
Funny, I am a native New Yorker from the Adirondacks. I just love that land. Arrogant about it, though? No, just protective of it.
 

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Posted by RRR (Member # 6601) on :
 
Hmm... this is at the top without a new post. So who deleted what?
 

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