So I have this theory, that part of the reason kids will get a gun and shoot another kid because they have a disagreement instead of just a normal fistfight (because really, how many times do you think two children utterly pissed off at each other will settle their differences by having themselves a good long chat about how they resolve their conflict peacefully?)is because when everyone is a todler off playing around with their friends and eventually get to wrestling over something the parents step in with their whole "Oh no my poor precious might get hurt" speach, and immediately breaks up the little scuffle.
Now I'm not saying parents should let their children have all out wars, but if the parents let the children fight atleast a little then eventually all the children establish a pecking order, and you know who you beat up you get into a fight and who will beat you. If everyone knows where people stand in the pecking order no one will care if someone high up can beat up someone near the bottom. And because of all the minor scuffles you won't have the whole "Oh no I lost in a fight, everyone is going to think i'm a whimp. I guess i'l go get a gun/knife and shoot/stab that kid who fought me and won" because every now and then sure someone lower on the pecking will win, but then again because you aren't getting picked on by someone a lot tougher than you because no one will care because they know how much tougher than you the other person was, you would have won against people tougher than you. It wouldn't be like you were getting beat up everyday. It would even out.
Now I am sure that you guys can rip this thing to shreds, and my whole theory doesn't work unless people can learn to let it drop. If you're mad enough to get into a fistfight, by stopping it all that happens is you get even more mad and you wind up fighting again. If you let a fight finish you can then get over whatever silly little thing you were fighting about in the first place.
Do you, my fellow hatrackers think this theory holds any truth?
Posted by gnixing (Member # 768) on :
the people on the bottom of the pecking order will never be satisfied. they're the ones who go and get the guns.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I associate the whole idea of a pecking order with species of a lower order of mental and spiritual capacity than humans. We have something a whole lot better than that. We have the concept that might does not make right, and we have the rule of law, rather than the strong imposing on the weak.
I feel like the idea of doing things fairly, taking turns, having rules of precedence and order that don't treat some people differently than others, is much higher than a pecking order. Everyone involved is much happier, as well.
But as for limiting fights, I don't think a pecking order can do that either. My cats have failed to establish a stable one after 7 years together, and they continue to squabble and slap at one another still.
The theory may work with some primates, but in truth I think there is still quite a good bit of fighting involved.
Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
Reminds me of pack structure in multi-dog families.
Luckily (or unluckily?) children are not dogs.
I'll have to think about this, but my first impression is that you are wrong.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
Interesting.
Posted by Son_of_Priam (Member # 6411) on :
The people on the bottom of the pecking order might not have a reason to. I mean think about it, if the person on the bottom goes and gets a gun and shoots the next highest person or any person higher than them what does everyone else think? Oh he couldn't fight him and win, so he/she went and got a gun. If you know that getting a gun doesn't ellevate you in the eyes of your peers, why get a gun? especailly when you know that sooner or later that person is going to annoy someone much higher up than them and get beaten up themselves, it wouldn't be like the one person would never get his
Posted by Son_of_Priam (Member # 6411) on :
And I'm not saying this could be a total system of justice, just a way of limiting the strong picking on the week. in tight social groups isn't the opinion of your friends one of the main driving forces behind your actions? I mean as a society the way we dress, and even the way we act, could be influenced by your friends' opinion. So if your social group wouldn't think it was amusing, to see you pick on someone who obviously isn't capable of standing up to you, people might not do it.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
How about if we get rid of the notion of hierarchy and the concept that fighting makes you manly and tough?
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I'm curious, Syn. How do you convince Hollywood to stop glamorizing violence when that's what we spend millions as a nation to go see?
I'm with the Greeks. I think we need some of it in our entertainment as catharsis. Give me so much introspection and emotion that I'm wrung out and shaking in the end. I get that when I read and follow the charcter down a different path in my imagination. I felt like that in Shawshank Redemption and Cry, the Beloved Country. It's not much of an art form these days. And I can't think of a single action movie that left me that way, although some of the apocolyptics come close.
I'm Southern enough to admit that I do expect a man to be able to handle himself in a fight. Not necessarily win, but at least to get in a couple good hits. Most of the time, it's how you win or lose that establish who you are as a man. I think by never resolving their own conflicts, we do deny children a chance to know themselves.
As for the stabbing shooting bit. Well, I believe some people get so busy being selfish and thinking about themselves all the time that they lose sight of anyone else. They let Satan whisper in their ear and think it's a great idea. The best thing we can do for kids is remind them they aren't the center of the universe. The people around them matter, too.
But then, we'd have to teach most of the parents that first.
Posted by Jalapenoman (Member # 6575) on :
I think it is funny when you think about the modern violence in schools.
Many years ago, all kids owned and knew how to use guns. Guns were brought to school, but they stayed in the cars in the parking lots so that the kids could shoot rabbits on the way home.
Today, with all of the anti-gun and gun-control crap, guns are not allowed near schools, and parents are discouraged from teaching about gun use and gun safety, but kids are getting blown away.
Once again, in the name of political correctness and advanced thinking, we have taken steps backwards.
P.S. My 11 year old is a junior marksman. He got his first bb gun when he was 7 and his first pellet gun when he was 8. When he is 12, he will get his first 22. He has never threatened anyone with these weapons and understands their cleaning and usage. I, on the other hand, do not really enjoy shooting or hunting and do not even own a gun.