I know we may have some (perhaps many) teetotalers in the group going to Chicago. This post is for everyone else. I love beer. I love tasting, judging, evaluating and making beer. I'm hoping we have other like minded zymurgists attending. I'd love to trade and taste with other beer afficionadoes. I'm suggesting we each bring a six pack or a growler from a regional pub or brewery and have a mini-tasting. Is anyone else even interested?
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Mmmmmm... beer...
I'm more of a liquor guy myself: Jager (fav) Vodka Gin Goldslager Scotch (second fav)
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
<--- likes beer <--- doesn't know of any local beers in his area
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
<---- doesn't like beer <---- knows about 4 local beers in her area
How did that happen?
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
Saxon75, here is a page with listing of brewpubs in your city. Stroll out this weekend and sample a few and purchase a growler of the best to bring with you.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Punwit, I don’t mean to discourage responsible adults from drinking responsibly – but if you do this you need to find a way/place where you can be sure that none of our under-21 crowd has access. Not that I don’t trust them or anything, but I absolutely cannot be anywhere where there is a chance of minors drinking. Neither can any teachers, or others whose professions involve working with kids.
I know some people have a wink-at-it attitude about this, but the risk is too high for me.
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
Annie, would you mind bring a sampler of them? Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
Yeah, I'm thinking this isn't a hugely great idea. Aside from Dana's concerns--which I agree with--I think that it would just be logistically easier to just see what the Chicago area has to offer.
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
I understand your concern. Would my word that I will be absolutely certain that no one underage will participate be good enough?
[ August 05, 2004, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: punwit ]
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
I'd like to respctfully decline, Punwit, if you don't mind. Posted by JonnyNotSoBravo (Member # 5715) on :
punwit, I don't think you need to organize this or anything. This sort of thing evolves by itself when the drinking crowd goes out to a bar or a jazz/blues club for 21 and over (so hopefully dkw won't have to wonder about the under 21 crowd because they will be weeded out by the carding process). But it's nice to know that we might be getting educated about alcohol. Are you going to be using the wine taster's strategy of spitting out the beer after you try it so as to not get drunk?
Btw, what is a growler?
Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
*grumble*
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
JNSB, I was hoping to try a few beers from other regions, not just Chicago.
A growler is a half-gallon jug sold by most brewpubs.
No I don't spit it out. I usually take a small portion (2 to 3 oz) and try to savor it.
View it, inhale the aroma, small taste that I work around my mouth. Eventually I swallow it but certainly the idea is not to get drunk.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
You’d also need to be sure that none of the beer was left unattended in the hospitality room. Again, I don’t want to give the impression that I don’t trust our younger people, but I believe there was a problem with this at one of the other Hatrack gatherings.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
There is a resturaunt in the Holiday Inn with a bar area where you could order libations. However I will absolutely NOT support any other liquor brought onto hotel premises because among other things it would be a violation of their liquor license. (This means NO growlers and NO beer tasting on the premises.)
If someone over 21 wishes to partake while out on the town at a legal establishment, that is another issue completely. (I would consider partaking then myself.) Please PLEASE be responsible and no stupidity or drunken driving or anything.
AJ
The other reason why it is NOT ALLOWED IN THE HOTEL is because of the contract I signed and I'm legally liable. I simply can't take the risk.
[ August 05, 2004, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
The Chicago Brauhaus (google it) is supposed to have some awesome beers though.
AJ
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
I called and verified so I am dropping this. I thought it would have been a fun thing but it appears it was not to be. Sorry folks.
BTW Banna, your liability was the kicker. The person I spoke to wanted to make it clear that they wouldn't really see what was going on in the hospitality rooms, BUT they didn't allow alchohol. Kind of made me laugh. Trying to say what they didn't see they couldn't object to. But she did make it clear that whoever signed the contract was liable.
[ August 05, 2004, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: punwit ]
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Yes, they are turning a blind eye to the pizza delivery.
*sigh* while I know you had the best of intentions, I wish you hadn't called punwit, because now I feel I need to call Wendy and Anna tomorrow and reassure them that there won't be any booze.
AJ
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I think I will be definitely imbibing in the hotel's bar on Friday night after everyone has arrived. I suspect I'm going to need it by that time!
Happy Camper and Celia, shall we have a reprise of our last drinking session, but with better booze?
AJ
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
They would have no idea that I was affiliated with Kama Con. I just said "If I was booking a bunch of rooms and a hospitality room and wanted to taste a few beers would that be ok?
Edit missing period
[ August 05, 2004, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: punwit ]
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
*slightly relieved*
AJ
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
So.... Does beer actually taste good? I have honestly wondered that. I had heard that it is kinda nasty, or maybe an acquired taste. As the esteemed Strong Bad says, "A One that is not cold is hardly A One at all." Or something like that.
I have only ever smelled it. Smells weird to me. Not like coffee, a smell I actually enjoy and bring back happy memories. I even enjoy a faint cigarette smell. (I have not tasted coffee or cigarettes either.)
I guess I can understand someone liking wine. After all, I like grape juice. Does beer taste anything like malt?
Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
I agree that this is something legal adults should do separately from others, if only for stupid legal liabilities. There are almost 50 of us; it should be pretty simple to form a small subset when time and plans allow.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
I worked at a little restaurant in town in high school, where they served local microbrews on tap. For some reason, me, the boozeless one, was the best at pouring the beer without getting foam all over the place. Hence, I became Beer Girl.
The smell was enough to dissuade me for life. But they called me Beer Girl (in all the wrong situations) for a very long time. Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Alright! Beer girl!!
My dad used to drink a lot, according to him (gave it up when he converted), and says it not all that great. I wouldn't know. I don't care to know.
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
Beer (especially the nice belgian kind) can taste delicous. A glass of Leffe at a little cafe in Paris after a day of walking around... mmm-hmm!
I don't think it tastes malt-y. Normal beer is quite hoppy, and can be quite bitter. Of course, there is the different between pilsners (bitter), lager (pale, light), ales (dark, often with treacle, chocolate or coffee tones) and all the others in between.
And then there are the wheat beers - these are rich, and more like wines - and often very strong. (9% ish). They are designed to accompany meals, and have elaborate flavour structures - orange peel, cinnamon, coffee, chocolate, vanilla notes and more.
But Annie, I can sympathise - there is not much worse then the smell of stale beer. *nose-holding smilie*
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
<climbs up on box of soap>
I'm glad this was resolved before I had to weigh in about drinking AT the gathering. I would just like to add that if anyone drives drunk and I find out about it, I will turn into an ogre. Really.
I'm not a really uptight person, but this is a big deal and I can't really even force myself to be "cool" about it.
If you find yourself in a situation where you need a ride back to the hotel, however, I will be absolutely happy to come and retrieve you and even give you a ride BACK to your car the next day. I would be your friend for life if you were smart enough to call rather than drive. Even if it IS after 2 in the morning when you make this decision. Please avoid seedy parts of town where I'll get shot though...
If in doubt...call.
Remember -- figure ONE HOUR to clear the effects of one "standard" drink from your system. The places that give you larger servings aren't really doing you a favor -- a double takes at least 2 hours to clear out...could be more...much more if they are giving generous servings. Coffee doesn't help. Eating after doesn't help either. Only time will reduce your BAC.
Did I mention you could just call and I'll come and get you?
For those of you from other states, you should be aware that:
1) Illinois is a .08 BAC limit state. You can hit that limit pretty quickly if you don't weigh a lot, are drinking on an empty stomach, and/or are served generous portions. (typical "pours" in bars are way over the standard 1 oz hard liquor, 12 oz beer or 4-6 oz wine that the "estimators" are based on)
2) They are a member of the non-resident violator compact and WILL ABSOLUTELY notify your home state of ANY traffic violations, including suspensions, DUI, etc. If you're really unlucky, your home state will also assess points on your license in addition to recording the violation on your driver history. Insurance rates go up. It's not fun.
3) They have a primary seatbelt law, so if an officer sees people in the front seat unbelted, you can be stopped and cited. Since they probably HATE stopping people for this, expect to get a secondary citation for whatever they can nail you for while they're at it. It adds up pretty quickly.
4) Don't even bother trying to fight a ticket in Chicago area. It's the busiest traffic court in the Country and I know the main judge there -- they don't cut people any slack. Seriously, they are a traffic safety-educated judiciary. They help us train other judges and prosecutors in how important their role is in traffic safety.
5) I suppose I should warn people that IL has open-container laws too, just in case you come from one of those idiotic states that still allows people to drive with opened bottles/cans/cups of alcoholic beverages in the passenger compartment.
<gets off of soapbox>
I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Hey Bob, what if I haven't drinken anything, it's 2 AM, and I call you for a ride? Will you still be my friend for life?
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
quote: I'm glad this was resolved before I had to weigh in about drinking AT the gathering. I would just like to add that if anyone drives drunk and I find out about it, I will turn into an ogre. Really.
Good on you Bob. It's not an issue that anyone should be light-hearted about.
It's also why hotel bars are a good idea... no driving at the end.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
T_Smith...passengers who AREN'T drunk are usually a lot more pleasant to be around than those who are. I'm speaking broad generalities of course. So sure, I'll give you a ride.
imo...too right!
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
What if I'm 5 states away and stuck at a movie theater by myself? Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Sure thing. Wait for me on the corner...
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
Should I hold a sign?
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
Look, I agree with the NOT drinking and driving mantra. It's a good idea (better than that even) and it saves lives. I'm not in to getting drunk. I like to taste beers from other areas, not guzzle them.
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
Punwit, I don't think anyone was suggesting otherwise.
I guess it just doesn't hurt to be careful.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Yes, Nathan, you should. A big sign that says "I AM A GOOBER."
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
punwit...I was speaking of the generic "you" not you specifically.
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.
I'm like so totally psyched to be meeting you!!!
Seriously!
And I'm not a prude about drinking either. Just had to soapbox about driving for anyone who might be likely to do that...
Again...I'm really sorry!!!
Bob
[ August 05, 2004, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: Bob_Scopatz ]
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
I guess I was getting defensive. I suppose I was feeling like my idea was being portrayed as promoting drunkeness as opposed to beer appreciation. I think I may be a little sensitive on this issue. I do try to promote responsible drinking at every opportunity. It's sorta like a professional responsability.
Edit to transpose two letters.
[ August 05, 2004, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: punwit ]
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
Bob, likewise I assure you!
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Have you ever tried Spotted Cow, punwit? It's a local microbrew here in Wisconsin, and Christy and I are rather fond of it. I'll bring a pack if you're interested.
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
No I haven't Tom and yes I would be interested in sampling some. Have you tried any beer from New Glarus. Their Belgian Red is a cherry beer to die for.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
So... is the title a play on "Hear me!" or "Dear me!"?
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
<--- doesn't drink and drive.
<--- isn't bringing or renting a car anyway.
<--- hopes all the walking he will do that weekend will make up in some small way for not going to the gym nearly as often as he says he will.
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
You could have pop suicide samplings instead...
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
punwit, as the one who started the negativity, I want to say that I never for one second thought that you were encouraging anything illegal, irresponsible, immoral, or dangerous. I was just worried about a mixed-age gathering with no one formally “in charge.”
Posted by Jaiden (Member # 2099) on :
I wish to say that beer is a vile vile substance.
Give me a good wine anyday.
Or just about anything other than beer. And Pernod. Or any other thing that tastes like licorice. Or rootbeer.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
quote:I suppose I should warn people that IL has open-container laws too, just in case you come from one of those idiotic states that still allows people to drive with opened bottles/cans/cups of alcoholic beverages in the passenger compartment.
Heh.. one of my state's gubernatorial candidates is actually arguing against an open container ban. He was on the news, saying something like, "I'm a hard working Montanan - I know what it's like to get done with a hard day's work and have a responsible drink of cold beer on the way home..."
Will you please come be traffic safety president here? Please?
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
New Glarus Spotted Cow is one of my fav brews. I've only been able to find one place that serves it on tap, though (The Mineshaft in Hartford, WI).
Posted by Richard Berg (Member # 133) on :
An open-container ban sounds like something that's used to pull over people who need investigation when the cops can't come up with a real offense in time. See also: the law against broken taillights for when they want to run a plate [or cynically, DWB]; charges of disorderly conduct if your actions in public raise suspicion; etc.
Consistency, people. Is BAC the statistic to fear or not? Obviously physical distractions like beer bottles can be as deadly as (or exacerbate) chemical intoxication, but not even the cell phone nazis have made their respective laws felonies.
Anyway, the idealist in me hates such crap, but so long as officers don't abuse this extra discretion it MAY be a pragmatic compromise.
Posted by Nato (Member # 1448) on :
Broken taillights... grr. I've been pulled over twice in my 1980 beaten-up Toyota truck for those. My little sister ripped off the quick fix (duct tape) I had on there after the first time.
Luckily no tickets though.
(And the second time my aunt and uncle were following me home. How embarassing!)
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
You know, BAC is not a perfect indicator of impairment. Nor is the mere fact that someone has been drinking or is drinking.
MADD and some others will say that any alcohol equates to impairment. But whether the level of impairment is "meaningful" is certainly up for debate.
I look at it another way. The driving task is generally very forgiving. People drive without paying attention. They drive drunk. They drive when fatigued. They drive faster than the speed limit...etc. And usually (the VAST majority of times) nothing bad happens. But these are all contributing factors. And, every once in awhile, the driving task becomes one with zero leeway.
At that point in time, the ideal would be that drivers are performing at their peak. And if the driver is NOT performing at his/her best, then they become at least part of the reason that a crash occurred. And the further they are from peak performance, the more liable they are in real terms (not just in the courts).
What you have to plan for when driving is the worst case. And if your reactions are slowed, or you are tired, inattentive, etc., then you are a cause. If you get drunk and drive, you helped cause the crash. Period.
Oh well. It may not hold up in court. But I believe that everyone has a responsibility to only get behind the wheel when they are READY to drive.
I'm not a big fan of government legislated morality in no-fault situations. But driving is not generally a no fault situation. A vanishingly small percentage of crashes are caused by vehicles or road conditions. The vast majority happen because one or more drivers do something they shouldn't. And, in that context, most people are far too willing to drive when their skills are blunted.
Ah well. Someday our cars will drive themselves and we can take human behavior out of the equation. The number of crashes will go down dramatically eventually. Until then, we just have ourselves to blame.
I'm not too worried about the image of an over-zealous enforcement officer. Unless its a municipal cop trying to boost revenue, most cops are not all that interested in making traffic stops without first seeing something dangerous in the driver's behavior. Traffic stops are dangerous in and of themselves. People rarely appreciate your efforts.
Oh well...
I think Montana has some pretty good traffic safety people up there. Idiot legislators -- spare us!
What the heck is a cherry beer?
Is it like carbonated cough syrup?
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
Bob, New Glarus of Wisconsin makes a Belgian style of beer called Belgian Red. It is infused with cherries. In flavor it probably comes closer to tasting like a wine than a beer. If you are interested see if Tom could procure a bottle for you.
Tom, I see where the Spotted Owl you mentioned is a product of New Glarus. Both products I have sampled from their brewery have been outstanding.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
quote: I'm not too worried about the image of an over-zealous enforcement officer. Unless its a municipal cop trying to boost revenue, most cops are not all that interested in making traffic stops without first seeing something dangerous in the driver's behavior. Traffic stops are dangerous in and of themselves. People rarely appreciate your efforts.
One caveat for some areas around the Chicago area - apparently there are some locales that still make a practice of doing traffic stops for "driving while black."
But I don't think that affects anyone coming to KamaCon.
Edit to add: I am admittedly NOT a fan of the Chicago police these days and it's probably making me more prone to snarkiness about law enforcement in general.
[ August 06, 2004, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: sndrake ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
*nod* Yeah, New Glarus has rapidly become my favorite small brewery, and I'm not just saying that because I live half an hour away. Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
I'm actually very glad punwit brought this up at all, so we could have this discussion and get rules and expectations out in the open FIRST, before getting to KamaCon.
Personally, I don't drink, although it doesn't bother me if others do. But a couple years ago I went to a gathering (not Hatrack - another group) and was appalled that some of the people there created a basic "open bar" in their hotel room and had people in and out all day and night -- sometimes drinking hard liquor at like 10 in the morning, etc. and some underaged people drinking. The following year they made the rule of NO liquor.
I just think if they had a discussion like this prior to the event, then rules would have been defined and the embarrassment of the first year would not have happened.
So punwit -- we are NOT at all upset at your idea -- I think it is a blessing in disguise because it allowed us to clear the air on this before the event. I had actually worried about this --- whether there might be drunken rowdiness going on in some of the rooms. Since I am bringing my daughter, I was concerned.
Farmgirl
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I agree it was better to have this discussion now. I honestly hadn't thought of it and well we know what ASS-U-ME spells.
AJ
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Is it like ES-CA-PE?
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
You mean like a real word, only written with all caps and spaces in the middle?
Hobbes Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
*hides bottle in bag and resolves not to show it to anyone*
Posted by punwit (Member # 6388) on :
Bob, Here is a page that does a great job of describing the cherry beer that you were inquisitve about. For those that are interested this site has ratings and descriptions of THOUSANDS of beers.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)