The International Gymnastics Federation is now asking Hamm to give up his gold medal as a demonstration of Good Will?
This makes absolutely no sense to me. Blame the officials, blame the Korean coaches, blame the rules, but don't blame Paul Hamm for not giving up his medal.
It would be nice for Paul to give up his medal, but he is certainly under no obligation to do so. I feel bad for the Koreans, but isn't it their coaches fault for not noticing the scoring mistake until it was too late?
***Spoilers basketball***
I think it is ironic that Larry Brown coached one of the most unselfish teams to win the NBA championship this year and did the exact opposite for the Olympics.
***Iraq***
I'm watching Iraq fighting for medal right now. I really hope they win something. Actual lives may depend on it.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
quote: "What's unusual is these mistakes with the start scores are made all the time throughout these Olympics," Hamm said. "It was strange they ended up sanctioning those judges when other judges made those mistakes as well."
And I have to agree with him. There are mistakes made in every sport known to man, by the officials. And we are all taught to "live with it" by our coaches. So why are they treating him differently?
Farmgirl
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
quote:So why are they treating him differently?
because he is american.
I think it is nuts that they are making a big deal about a non issue. People bitch about bad calls all the time...but you don't expect the team who benifited to give up their win. Hell, at the last Florida/FSU game the refs made terrible calls. Students bitched and made T-shirts that said 'who paid the refs' but no one expected FSU to say "Since there were bad calls, we want to forfit our win"
Besides, after watching the tape, it appears that the korean guy used 4 holds instead of the allowed 3. This is a deduction that the judges missed. It is all part of the game...I don't even think they should share the gold. At the time they said Hamm won, so he won. The situation at the winter olympics where they ended up splitting the gold was different because fraud was invovled...in this case it was just a simply mistake.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Did anyone catch the men's 200 last night? It took them I don't know how long to start it because the audience would not be quiet. Apparantly they were angry because the favored Greek runner wasn't in it - because he failed to show up for a drug test. It was also said that this was seen as an American conspiracy.
space opera
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
Bush campaign commercial:
"At this Olympics there will be two more free nations -- and two fewer terrorist regimes."
Iraqi soccer coach:
"You cannot speak about a team that represents freedom. We do not have freedom in Iraq, we have an occupying force. This is one of our most miserable times."
I'm not a big fan of the way Bush handled Iraq, but is this really one of Iraq's "most miserable times"?
Posted by Magson (Member # 2300) on :
The most miserable of times? Not according to these 3 brothers.
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
Am I a bad American (national American, not continental American) because I was rooting for Argentina in the basketball semifinals?
Posted by Little_Doctor (Member # 6635) on :
Not at all papa. I felt that the u.S. team didn't deserve to win. Their hearts aren't in it. They've let their superstar status get to their heads. I think in 2008 the U.S. should use the top college players instead of the NBA.
Posted by Shepherdess (Member # 6115) on :
I thought this was an excellent article by Mike Lopresti at USA Today about the double standard applied to Americans and American athletes. It makes me think that the "ugly American" is perhaps in some ways an invention of the European mind.
I'm not saying there aren't ugly Americans, but there are ugly [insert nationality here] too. Perhaps there are even more "ugly Greeks" as a percentage of the population of only 12 million, based on the thousands of people booing at track, gymnastics, and basketball events in the last couple of weeks.
Posted by newfoundlogic (Member # 3907) on :
Originally I thought that duplicate golds would be appropriate because it was about a fact regarding the difficulty as opposed to an opinion as to how good the routine is. Then the thing with the holds came out and I have to say that its pretty clear that if the Korean had been given the right start value and he won Hamm would have just as right to be upset that the judges missed the holds.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I think it will open a can of worms to nitpicking the whole event and will end with the Romanians winning. If the Koreans want to open that can, who knows what will come out of it?
P.S. I find it interesting that the skating keeps coming up, as that didn't involve Americans.
[ August 27, 2004, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: pooka ]
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
quote:Am I a bad American (national American, not continental American) because I was rooting for Argentina in the basketball semifinals?
Not at all. Considering that the US team stopped playing with 40 seconds left on the clock.
Why didn't they continue fouling? I know we can't shoot threes, but come on.
Posted by Jess N (Member # 6744) on :
I turned my back on the American basketball team when I watched the opening ceremonies. All the other atheletes from our country and others were looking around and seemed genuinely excited about their opportunity to be at the games. The American basketball players marched in and acted as if someone owed them something. They looked like a bunch of hoodlums.
I feel the same about Maurice Greene. Everytime he runs, I find an athlete--any athlete--to cheer on. I'd love to see some humility and sportsmanship stomped into him.
[ August 27, 2004, 11:17 PM: Message edited by: Jess N ]
Posted by Paercival (Member # 1408) on :
Greene is the man. Don't knock him. I've been following his career for 8 years (notice I said 8, and not 4).
He is just more open about how ALL sprinters at that level feel, really. He's da man, and always will be (assuming no drugs, but i mean, really... all these guys are on something probably)
Greene isn't unsportsmanlike, i'm confused why people think he acts that way. He's just arrogant; all sprinters are though, so that doesn't say much. Gotta have confidence in those races.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
I think the Dream Team is an adequate metaphor for US foreign policy. Set the 1992 team equal to WWII. _________
For me, the saddest part of the Olympics for was the Women's team dropping the baton in the 4x100 last night, I have a little crush on LaTasha Colander and was hoping she would do well. Plus, that entire team had a nice mixture of pluck and talent. __________
Paul Hamm may feel bad, but for my money, I feel worse for Morgan Hamm. That guy is a great gymnast, and I sure hope he doesn't feel second best.
I don't think they are giving Paul Hamm a hard time because he is American, though if Hamm were from Trinadad and this was their only ever Olympic medal in gymnastics, then the South Koreans would probably shut up and take the silver.
Us saying they want the medal back because he is American is like the Greeks saying that we kicked their sprinter out because he was greek. I don't think it's that simple.
[ August 28, 2004, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
That's true. It was so weird watching Morgan sitting in the stands while Paul was doing his routines. I have to wonder how much of a rivalry they had.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
How about a for American women athletes in Athens?
The women's basketball, softball, beach volleyball, and gymnastic teams were absolutely amazing.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Don't forget the women's individual saber! Gold and bronze!
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Not to mention Women's Soccer (football for the rest of the world).
Beating a team from Brazil is not easy under any circumstances.
-Trevor
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Footy footy footy!
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
I'm totally blown away by the Russian rhythmic gymnastics team. They managed to pull off some moves that I still can't figure out how the stunts were accomplished. Just pure magic I guess.
Speaking of magic, the little girl squeal of delight issued by Yelena Isinbayeva upon clearing the bar and all the way down to the mat certainly charmed my heart.
[ September 02, 2004, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Cashew (Member # 6023) on :
Well, how about Sarah Ulmer (New Zealand) in the women's cycling? She set the world record in March. An Australian broke it in the heats by .5 of a second, so in Ulmer's heat she SMASHED that record by almost 4 seconds, and then in the final, won gold, beating her own world record by another 2 seconds. That's 6 seconds off the world record in 2 days!! The performance of the Olympics!! Without a doubt.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
Aspectre, I saw her set that record, she is super cute and I'm not talking about the squeal as much as the eyes and smile. Then I heard she said she was going to spend the world record bonus on buying a boat, and the magic was gone.
Cashew, sounds impressive. I wish I could have seen it.
[ August 28, 2004, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"Then I heard she said she was going to spend the world record bonus on buying a boat, and the magic was gone."
You don't like boats? The poor will always be with us, Irami. Sometimes it's okay to pour some oil on your own head, and I would argue that a "prize" earned entirely for personal accomplishment, one that you're only likely to see once or twice in a lifetime, is an excellent example of one of those times.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
I dunno - I was picturing her eyes and smile on a boat and it still worked for me.
-Trevor
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
Tom, truth be told, you should have seen her smile when she broke the record, I don't think I could have said "No," to dinner even if she said she'd spend the money on candy and heroine.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
I don't know if it is appropriate to comment on the attractiveness of femalte athletes, but I have to confess I have a crush on Natalie Coughlin.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Yeah, well - I've always been a "heroine" addict.
-Trevor
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
For best smile, I have to vote for Carly Patterson. She still has that "I can't believe I'm at the Olympics" smile that brings a smile to my face every time.
Top row, first picture: look how tiny Carly is next to her coach.
Top row, second picture: When its all said and done, she's just a happy girl who wants a hug from mom.
Second row, first picture: possibly two of the greatest smiles face off, Carly vs. Katie. (I think Carly was showing Katie the cuts she gets from the parallel bars).
Second row, second picture: Best smile at the Olympics, exhibit A.
[ August 29, 2004, 01:44 AM: Message edited by: Beren One Hand ]
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
Foreign basketball teams' gaining parity with America's dream team in the Olympics is all part of the NBA's carefully orchestrated master plan to expand into foreign cities by boosting interest in the game abroad. It is not surprising that the U.S. lost to Argentina. According to an NBA official interviewed on local radio, we will have NBA teams in Madrid and Berlin in the not too distant future.
That Moroccan runner is awesome!
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Brazil is playing the volley men's final right now against Italy. Could you help me root for them? Brazil has only 3 golds up to now. It needs one more gold to break our own olympic record (3 golds in Atlanta 96).
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
Good luck!
Unfortunately NBC won't be showing it until late Sunday morning, but I'll send over my good vibes *bzzzzz*
Unbefreakingleavable. Where the hell was the Athens security? Lima was about 40 seconds ahead with about 25 minutes to go in the marathon when a jackass runs onto the course, tackles him, and hauls him into the crowd. He somehow managed to pull it together and keep going and is currently sitting in third but this is beyond the shadow of a doubt the most disgusting thing I have ever seen in the Olympics.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
Are you freaking serious? *turns on TV*
Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
Yeah, that was totally lame. Lima finished with bronze, and celebrated with the crowd despite what happened to him. The guy is a class act, and I hope he's compensated in some way.
Posted by newfoundlogic (Member # 3907) on :
Well at least he got bronze, now that's an accomplishment after what happened. Wow.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
That was horrible. He was 45 seconds in the lead. It was great to see him still come in third, though, and he was grinning when he ran down the final stretch of the stadium. He seems to have taken the whole debacle very well.
On a completely unrelated note, it was really cool to see that stadium filled with people -- I ran along that very same track the last time I visited Athens with my family, but the stadium was obviously empty when I was there. Seeing everyone sitting on the stone seats and cheering and stuff was awesome. Before today, I could only imagine what the stadium looked like full.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Here is a frontal picture of the guy who assaulted Lima, and here is a link to the CBC's coverage of the story. Apparently he had another sign on his back. Some people are saying he's Portugese, but I haven't seen confirmation anywhere.
Clearly, though, he is some sort of zealous nutjob.
Posted by newfoundlogic (Member # 3907) on :
He's Irish who did something crazier last year at an auto race in Britian.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
He was also, as it turns out, drunk at the time of his arrest.
Posted by newfoundlogic (Member # 3907) on :
And he was a priest. Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
Actually, this prank is kind of cool:
quote:At the Munich Olympics in 1972 a hoaxster snuck on to the track a couple of minutes before the leading runner reached the stadium and ran a full lap, pretending to be a competitor, before being dragged away by security guards.
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
they have had problems with security...earlier in the games a guy jumped in the pool wearing a tutu right before the synchronized diving event.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:"He seems to be suffering from psychological problems."
That's putting it... mildly.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
On the bright side, if this is the worst that happens in the Olympics this year, I'm not going to complain that much.
-Trevor
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
I complain The brazilian should have won the marathon. It was shameful, shameful, shameful Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
True.
But nobody planted anti-personnel explosives in the crowds or in the athletes' dorms.
Which in no way mitigates the fact the Brazilian runner was, for all practical purposes, robbed of his medal.
-Trevor
Edit: For typo
[ August 30, 2004, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: TMedina ]
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
I really enjoyed these Olympic games. If there is a tip jar for the Greek government to help them offset their astronomical cost, I would pitch in a dollar or two. Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Trevor, when I first watched the scene where the exibitionist grabst the runner, I thought. If that guy had a weapon or explosives, everybody nearby would be dead.
That was as serious a breach of security as could be.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Very true.
Which is why I'm grateful nothing more serious happened.
Not to say the assault on Lima wasn't serious, but it could have been so much worse.
-Trevor
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
You know what, I'm glad the olympics are over. In times past I've thoroughly enjoyed them. This year they got old and stale and smelled of dead fish in the middle of the second week.
Maybe I'm becoming a curmudgeon, and it is all me and has nothing to do with the coverage. It certainly didn't help that they had good old Al Trautwig, making his usual stupid remarks during Gymnastics. I've really never been so passionate about loathing a commentator so much in my life.
At least college football is back.
AJ
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
I got tired of the whole "The Olympics: Brought to you by McDonalds, Adidas, Royal Bank, Coca-Cola, etc." pretty freaking quickly.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
quote:Trevor, when I first watched the scene where the exibitionist grabst the runner, I thought. If that guy had a weapon or explosives, everybody nearby would be dead.
Amazingly enough, at least a couple of the spectators tried to pry the lunatic off the runner. For all they knew, this guy could've had explosives. It was very cool for the spectators to step up like that. Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
I thought he was a crazy out to make some sort of stupid statement. It didn't occur to me until an interview with de Lima where he said he was afraid the man was going to kill him when he first saw him that it might wind up being a life threatening situation. I imagine a number of the people who helped were the same as me.
I wonder, is such naivite a good thing?
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
I prefer to believe that the spectators just acted out of instinct, and most of the time, human instincts lean towards decency and kindness. Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I wanted better coverage of other events.
Okay, I wanted to be able to watch the fencing. Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
quote:It certainly didn't help that they had good old Al Trautwig, making his usual stupid remarks during Gymnastics.
I agree.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Feh - I'd like a detailed scheduling of the other events.
I always miss the judo and tae kwon do events.
-Trevor
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I was also mystified by Al Trautwig. Is his role to be the guy who doesn't know anything and has to have everything explained to him? I guess that can have some benefit for the viewing audience but come on. And I swore I was going to shoot my tv (with a rubber band) if he commented on how someone's Olypmic experience lasted less than 30 seconds. He seemed really fixated on that. Hmmm....
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Quit picking on Tautwig: the dude suffers from severe Memento disorder. Otherwise he could remember more than an "Olympic experience [which] lasted less than 30 seconds".
[ August 30, 2004, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Trautwig and my blood pressure aren't good for each other, especially after his buffoonery during the Tour de France.
AJ
Posted by newfoundlogic (Member # 3907) on :
Actually it looked like the Italian and the American were going to pass him anyways. There's no way to tell for sure now, but I don't think it actually made a difference. DeLima should still get an extra honorary something though, that was horribly unfair.
Posted by newfoundlogic (Member # 3907) on :
I wish they showed more medal matches of preliminary sports like fencing and judo instead of all these preliminary matches in games like boxng and men's indoor volleyball. Also I was sick of seeing semifinal swimming.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
Fencing was on Bravo most of the time. Then they showed sailing. Judo was on... USA maybe? CNBC was the boxing channel, MSNBC showed a bunch of stuff... weren't you all paying close attention to nbcolympics.com and their very detailed TV schedules?
I remember a couple nights at a friend's house where I was glued to HDTV and heats of swimming. Ah, god-like torsos. Needless to say, I stopped watching after the final swimming medal ceremony. Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
newfoundlogic
He was given a "honorary something" for it:
quote: The IOC also awarded de Lima the Pierre de Coubertin medal for demonstrating fair play and finishing the race.
I also agree he may have not gotten gold even if that event didn't happen. His lead was dwindling fast at this point.
But it is hard to know what "would" have happened...
Farmgirl
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
There's no point in speculating about how he would have placed. A marathon, at that point and that level, is more a mental battle than a physical one. You have de Lima's rhythm and momentum totally destroyed and as a consequence the other two were able to come within visual range of him giving them a huge mental boost. There was no question that he wouldn't win at that point. It just seems to be a disservice to all involved to speculate on might have beens; I'm sure the medals have been tarnished for all three runners.
But I am glad he got some sort of recognition above and beyond a medal. Small consolation, maybe, but something.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
There was a LOT more fencing than they showed. Only saber events were aired. Both mens and womens individual gold medal matches and the men's team competition.
There are two other weapons entirely--foil and epee--that weren't shown at ALL.
(and of course the two saber airings were during my fencing classtimes)
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
BtL, I agree, and I think that in the long run, Lima's dignity in that situation will be his consolation prize.
Posted by newfoundlogic (Member # 3907) on :
Well I wasn't glued to the TV but when I did watch all I saw was swimming, a little gymnastics, some track, volley ball, and boxing.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Oh, lord, I do not believe I said "in the long run." Did not mean that, sorry.
Posted by TimeTim (Member # 2768) on :
I too am sad to have missed the fencing. I haven't really followed it in recent olympics so I don't know if what happened this time is ordinary or not. I expected france and italy to have a significant advantage, but I was surprised to find China with a very strong contention. It's all good. Go Saber!
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)
![[Hat]](graemlins/hat.gif)
for American women athletes in Athens?![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[The Wave]](graemlins/thewave.gif)
![[Party]](graemlins/party.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
It was great to see him still come in third, though, and he was grinning when he ran down the final stretch of the stadium. He seems to have taken the whole debacle very well.![[Wink]](wink.gif)