This happened less than a mile from my house. To summarize, and add details from other stories, there was a drug related shooting in an ally behind a church. Two people were injured. Their "friends" drove them about six blocks, to two grocery stores that are basically across the street from each other, but with parking lots and outlying little stores they're really about a block apart. They dumped one victim in front of each store and drove off. Literally, on the sidewalk right in front of the door.
One person is apparently okay. The other died at the hospital within the hour, he had been shot in the chest. The driver asked a passing shopper to help pull the victim out of the front seat of the car, left him bleeding on the sidewalk and drove off.
Now, picture those two grocery stores as two points on a triangle, with a line connecting them east-west. Put the third point an equal distance to the south, so also about a block from each of the two stores. That's the police station.
[ November 21, 2004, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: ElJay ]
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
That's kind of freaky.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Darwin.
-Trevor
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Oh, and from where they were, the hospital was maybe 3/4 mile further.
Now, why would you take shooting victims to a hospital, when you can dump them at the grocery store!
[ November 19, 2004, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: ElJay ]
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Maybe they wanted to avoid the blue light special.
-Trevor
Posted by Intelligence3 (Member # 6944) on :
Because they were probably involved in illegal activities and didn't want to get arrested. I doubt we're talking about responsible citizens, here.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Blue light special...old K-Mart reference...blue bars on police cars...
Sorry, old-timer pun in there somewhere.
-Trevor
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I actually got it, T. And yeah, I3, I know. But they actually came closer to the police station to dump at the grocery stores... the hospital is 3/4 mile in the other direction. :shrug: (Lake Street Cub and Rainbow, Riverview Hospital.) Personally, if I had bodies in the car, I'd rather go to the hospital than the police station, and you could still dump and run if you wanna be that way.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
(And I also know I shouldn't expect criminals who have just been in a shooting to be rational. Just for the record, I want them to be anyway.)
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
The fact these idiots took the time to load their "buddies" into the car and drive them to bright lights and people to dump them suggests they were vaguely concerned with the well-being of the victims.
But c'mon, if you're actually worried about your buddy - drive him to the hospital. You can always lie about what happened after the fact.
-Trevor
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I thought about that. But they could have already been in the car when they were shot. So it would be a choice between staying in the alley where potentially they're still getting shot at to dump the bodies or taking off and doing it somewhere else. Now, they still get points that the somewhere else wasn't, like, the river, but I'm not prepared for giving them points for loading them up without further information.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Without knowing the specific region, driving to a location expressly with bright lights and people means the driver wanted the person being unloaded found.
I'm sure there are plenty of areas that aren't regularly travelled where the driver could have pulled over, yanked the wounded idiot from the car and left them by the side of the road without benefit of witnesses.
-Trevor
Posted by Lost Ashes (Member # 6745) on :
Is it common practice to drop injured gang members at the grocery store? Or did both groups come to the same idea at the same time?
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Oh, I totally agree that they wanted them to be found... that's what I meant by not taking them to the river... the area is in Minneapolis proper, at 30th street, with 15th street being the edge of downtown. So while secluded places are certainly available to the enterprising young thug, they'd have to pretty much look for one. The easiest being to go to the parks along the Mississippi.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Lost Ashes -- I believe it was one car dropping both people. Why they didn't dump them both at the same store I have no idea, may be they didn't want to stop too long in one spot. I've never heard of it happening before.
This was about 7:00 PM, btw.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
I'd guess the brain trust behind the wheel thought two people dropped off at the same place with gunshot wounds might be suspicious and police might tie the two events together.
Naturally, dropping them off seperately would keep the police from guessing these two incidents were in any way related.
-Trevor
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Sure. I mean, they were over the length of a football field apart. Why would they have anything to do with each other?
Posted by Intelligence3 (Member # 6944) on :
Just a hypothesis, but maybe they were worried that if they took a long time at any one location, people would have too long to identify them, get a license plate, etc. Dropping off one person is less time, and people will be momentarily confused while they drive off.
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Nah, they were relying on the tried and true "Shot and Aw" tactic to keep witnesses from getting accurate descriptions.
-Trevor
Edit: I'd have said, "Ow, Shot" tactic, but it would have the pun, paned. Transparently pained.
Posted by Lost Ashes (Member # 6745) on :
Another possibility is that by dropping the shootees off at two different stores, equidistant from the police station would tie up more police officers and emergency workers. Might give the rest more time to get away?
Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
Ya know, if that was the reasoning, I'll give them extra credit for being creative.
-Trevor
Posted by Danzig avoiding landmarks (Member # 6792) on :
In case anyone is ever in this situation, or merely has to deal with an overdose, remember that letting someone die will attract more attention than bringing them to the hospital. The standard procedure should be:
1. Determine (preferably ahead of time) the spot you want the ambulance to come to. If possible, it should be a different address than where the injury occured, such as next door. It needs to be close enough to drop off the person before the ambulance, and more importantly police, arrive.
2. Determine whether the person can be moved. If so, call the ambulance and give them the alternate address, then as fast as possible move them there. If not, give them your present location. The police are still supposed to need a warrant to search your home. If you are unable to tell whether they can be safely moved, do not move them.
3. Remove all forms of identification, especially fake IDs, from the person. Remove all contraband and weapons as well. If you have time, remove them from your person and either destroy them or put them in a safe place.
4. Write down as accurately as possible the extent of their injuries and the time they occured. If they have taken any drugs, note as accurately as possible which ones, how much, when, and their level of tolerance. The medical people will probably know which common recreational drugs do not mix with their drugs, but if it is an uncommon one you might tell them upper or downer if you know yourself. If you do not, do not try to guess.
5. If you are obviously high (or will make it obvious if you start talking) or otherwise suspicious looking, get out of the alternate address. If you are unable to ditch your contraband, get out of there. It is usually pretty safe to talk to medical workers, but all they need to know is that which makes a difference to the injured party. If they ask where they got the drugs or wound, tell them to bugger off. Be polite, and keep calm.
6. If for some reason you do not want or cannot get an ambulance, drive them to a hospital and leave them in the emergency room. As soon as someone is treating them, get out. Emergency rooms are required to treat people regardless of ability to pay, which is one reason to remove all forms of identification. If the person is conscious, try to make sure they do not give the workers any unnecessary information.
7. You owe the police nothing. If they bother you, tell them you want a lawyer present.
Posted by Lost Ashes (Member # 6745) on :
We sure wouldn't want to take any responsibility for our actions now, would we?
That's right kiddies, your friend's life is nowhere near as important as your parents not finding out you've been out shooting up or robo-tripping...
Posted by Danzig avoiding landmarks (Member # 6792) on :
Not so much parents as police, and the entire point of that post was encouraging people to aid victims to cover their own ass.
Besides, friends are different than acquaintances. You can bet I would let someone who 1) I cared nothing for and 2) made their own bed die before I would get sent to prison for ten years. It is one of the risks you take when you consume drugs, and anyone too stupid to realise that does not need to be using in the first place.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
O_o Wow. Heartless. But then I guess people who have to deal with problems like that aren't in the business of being touchy-feely..
Still, it's creepy that it happened so near to you ElJay. For that matter, it's not too far from me. Or where I was on Sunday. O_o
Posted by J T Stryker (Member # 6300) on :
I just wnt to say, I'm kind with Danzig... minus the wether i know them or not part, human life is human life, but i'm alot more likly to stick around after help arrives if i know the person.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Upon first hearing this, I imagined that they avoided the hospital because:
1) law enforcement officers might be there. 2) people there are less likely to panic in an emergency and forget to do things like notice a license plate.
But that might be giving them too much credit.
These are people who would willingly leave a friend to die rather than drive another minute or two.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Or they aren't from the area, so didn't know there was a hospital that close, and figured if they dropped them in a public area the ambulance would come.... Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
I will grant that Danzig has a couple of valid points - although even if you ask for a lawyer, there's still a whole bunch of legal complications that convicted felons may just want to avoid.
-Trevor
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Well, there was an update on the radio yesterday, and it looks a whole lot closer to Danzig's scenario then I initially thought.
Now they're saying that it was a car-jacking gone bad. 3 or 4 people sitting in a car in an alley smoking marijuana and someone tries to steal the car. They refuse to get out, there are shots fired, and they take off and dump the injured members of the party at the stores.
So while it still seems weird to me, it makes a little more sense, especially after reading Danzig's viewpoint of what to do in that sort of situation.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I just hope Danzig wasn't posting from experience.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
And yeah, I3, I know. But they actually came closer to the police station to dump at the grocery stores... the hospital is 3/4 mile in the other direction. :shrug: (Lake Street Cub and Rainbow, Riverview Hospital.) Personally, if I had bodies in the car, I'd rather go to the hospital than the police station, and you could still dump and run if you wanna be that way.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)