My wife, after listening to me sleep and gasp for air the other night, suspects that I might have sleep apnia. What do I do to get myself checked out? Do I make an appointment with my doctor? Do I contact a special sleep center?
[ January 24, 2005, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
Your doctor has to order it. It usually takes several weeks to schedule, sleep centers are usually very busy. At least here in the Midwest they are. If your wife observed you having typical symptoms sthen insurance usually pays for it. What exactly did she observe?
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
I have OSA (obstructive sleep apnea), so yeah, I'm a bit of an expert on it.
Get thee to a sleep specialist as quickly as possible. NOW, MAN! RUN!
Primary care physicians generally know almost nothing about apnea or other sleep disorders and are not in much of a position to properly diagnose or treat. The severity of the apnea, as well as to judge the best course of treatment, usually a CPAP machine, has to be done by a sleep specialist.
CPAP machine - basically, it's an air pump that pumps air through a hose attached to a mask that you wear on your face at night. The blowing air acts like a split to keep your throat from collapsing, assuming that that's the cause of the apnea.
If you have central sleep apnea, however, then drugs will fix it. Central sleep apnea is when the brain fails to send the correct signal to your lungs to breathe.
Now. Seriousness of apnea. Depending on the severity of apnea and how long you've had it, you could have severe sleep deprivation. If that's the case, then you could also be experiencing narcolepsy (falling asleep involuntarily) or other secondary sleep disorders. If your apnea is severe in terms of frequency and duration, then it can be putting excess strain on your heart. That can be very bad. If left for too long, it can cause permanent damage.
My apnea, for example, isn't that bad because I stop breathing only 45 times an hour and my heart rate climbs from 40 to 120. My uncle, however, stops breathing 120 times an hour and his heart rate climbs to 160-180. He caught his in time to prevent permanent heart damage. If it had gone on for another ten years, it would be another story entirely. In his family (he married into the family, not my biological uncle), the men tend to die of heart attacks in their sleep in their forties and fifties. Likely due to apnea. Sara, er, CT, will be along sometime to tell you whether I'm right or wrong.
The other thing they'll do at the sleep lab is find out if apnea is your only sleep disorder, or if you have more. Anecdotal - it seems to me that a lot of people with sleep disorders have more than one. That's certainly the case with more than half of those I'm related to. I also have periodic limb movement. Anyway, they'll find out, and if that's the case, get you treated for that, too.
If you're overweight, your doc will advise you to lose weight as being overweight tends to make apnea worse and, in some people, can cause apnea.
Any questions?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Well, I've been meaning to get a checkup for, oh, a copule of years, so I guess it's time to do that anyway.
My wife observed yesterday morning (when I was in an unusually light sleep) that I wouldn't breathe for a long time, then I'd take three gasping breaths, then again I wouldn't breathe for a long time until I took three more gasps.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:Likely due to apnea. Sara, er, CT, will be along sometime to tell you whether I'm right or wrong.
Read this, and wondered what apnea had to do with CT's correcting of you.
Re-read it, got the picture.
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
The best way to get TO a sleep specialist is to have a sleep study. Which, in America, is usually ordered by the primary care physician. The study is then read and interpreted by a specialist at the sleep lab.
Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
Keep in mind that sleep apnea is much more involved that just stopping breathing every once in a while. There are a lot of criteria. During the study they look at how many times an hour it occurs, what stages of sleep, etc etc. And most people with significant sleep apnea have symptoms of daytime fatigue. It can't be diagnosed over the internet or even in the doctor's office. However, if you have NO symptoms and this was just a one-time thing, your doctor may not be concerned yet. You should have your wife continue to observe you and, if you go to the doctor, be able to describe to him the patterns Bev sees. Or take her with you. (Or have her tape you sleeping and snoring and not breathing, that can be impressive.)
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
quote: CPAP machine
For a minute I thought you said CRAP machine... Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
That's how I read it initially too. :heehee:
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
quote:CPAP machine - basically, it's an air pump that pumps air through a hose attached to a mask that you wear on your face at night. The blowing air acts like a split to keep your throat from collapsing, assuming that that's the cause of the apnea.
Just to warn Bev -- I found that sleeping next to someone running a CPAP machine much harder to get accustomed to than sleeping next to a snorer. But it is worth it to keep them alive, of course. Just be aware that it can really change your sleep habits, and....uh...sometimes the spontaniety of "other" bedroom activities.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Mary won't let me snore. She keeps waking me up and forces me to sleep on my side.
Posted by Intelligence3 (Member # 6944) on :
The CPAP will prevent snoring.
My diagnosis was simple. The doctor had a recorder that is attached to a mask. You wear the mask for a couple nights, then bring the machine back to the doctor. He sends the data back to the sleep lab, and they record your breathing pattern, then diagnose apnea. It's not as thorough as a sleep study, but if insurance doesn;t cover it (mine didn't), they waive the cost of the study.
Your life will be many many many times better after you get a CPAP. Trust me. I was stopping breathing 90 times an hour. I used to sleep from Friday evening to Sunday morning every single week, and I was never well-rested. Now I need about 6-7 hours every night and I'm fine.
It does tend to put a damper on any "romantic agenda," if you're single, but you don't have that trouble. It has been weird for me, though, at first with new significant others. "Ooooh, that was fantastic, baby. I'm so glad you're here with me. Now, let me just put on this Johnny Space Commander mask and turn on the medical equipment..." *hhhmmmmmmmmshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh* "Gnight."
It's worth it to avoid dying in my sleep which almost happened to a friend of mine with apnea.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
There are times that I snore so loud that I wake myself up.
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
Thanks for all the info on this guys. I think my younger brother is suffering from this and I'm going to do what I can to get him checked out.
Posted by Boris (Member # 6935) on :
Yeah, I'm in this boat. Only problem is I haven't been able to sleep with the mask on for like...4 months
But yeah, I had to go through a series of tests, mostly because I have other sleep problems. But anyway, good luck!
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
When I did my sleep study, they pretty much confirmed I had it (even though the techs aen't allowed to diagnose) so they woke me up and let me spend one hour on a CPAP machine.
I awoke feeling a decade younger. It's amazing the difference it can make. Definitely get checked ASAP.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
quote: Mary won't let me snore. [Grumble] She keeps waking me up and forces me to sleep on my side.
Yeah, that usually works. But one night a few weeks ago I came to bed after he fell asleep. He was on his side snoring away. There wasn't anything I could *politely* do to get him to stop. I slept on the couch that night. Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
My father almost certainly has sleep apnea, but he won't heed my mother's and my advice on it. Maybe I'll go to him armed with the info from this thread and tell him to get an appointment.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
With untreated obstructive sleep apnea, you have an significantly increased chance of stroke and heart attack. You also probably wouldn't have had a good night's sleep in over a decade. Sometimes treating sleep apnea naturally leads to a decrease in weight, as you have more energy during the day. It also may help depression.
Oh, and the mask? I think it looks tres chic, a'la Star Trek. And the soothing woosh-woosh makes for an excellent white noise. I have a hard time not sleeping next to a CPAP machine, now.
As was so eloquently explained above, the thing to do is start with your primary care doctor who can refer you to a sleep clinic. Sometimes you can self-refer, but you'd have to check your insurance first, and sounds like you really should get a check-up anyway.
If you want to streamline the process, make a tape of your sleeping with the pauses and gasps. Since you are a tall slim man, you -- like my husband -- don't fit the stereotype for obstructive sleep apnea, so the tape can help convince a screener. They will also be looking for reports of your chest heaving and/or legs kicking with the pauses, and daytime sleepiness. However, you might not even know that you are sleepy during the day, if you haven't slept well for a long long time. It's like depression -- you don't realize how bad it has gotten until you get it fixed.
When my sweetie had a sleep study, they put the CPAP on halfway through the night. When he woke that morning, he said he felt like a five-year-old. He'd forgotten what it was like to have energy again.
Derrell knows all about this stuff, so he might be a good one to answer questions.
[ January 24, 2005, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Well, I've got an appointment. It's been many, many years since I've had one, so it's a good idea all around.
Posted by Intelligence3 (Member # 6944) on :
quote: And the soothing woosh-woosh makes for an excellent white noise. I have a hard time not sleeping next to a CPAP machine, now.
I don't have that problem. I have slept with a fan on for a couple decades now, the noise and the breeze help me sleep. It's more the big plastic mask over my face. I sleep fine with it, I just think it looks really bizarre.
[ January 24, 2005, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: Intelligence3 ]
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
mm. That does look rather bizarre.
(I'm glad you're here I3.)
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I appreciate all the benefits of having a well-rested and energetic partner.
[Yeah, hey, I3! Long time no see. ]
[ January 24, 2005, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by Intelligence3 (Member # 6944) on :
Thanks. Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
My father was diagnosed with sleep apnea a few years back and sleeps with the CPAP machine. He is affectionately known to some as "Grandpa Snuffleupagus".
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Porter - I love ya to death -- but could you please change the spelling of Apnea in the thread title to the correct spelling? Just a quirk....
FG
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
mph, think of your wife. If you haven't gotten a decent nights sleep in a decade, neither has she! You wake her up every night. I mean, think about it, iverytime she makes you roll over, it's because you've awakened her.
I never slept well to begin with, but between my insomnia and my husband's snoring, I nearly went crazy. Well, okay, I did go crazy, but that was for an entirely different reason.
Once you get the CPAP, (if it's winter and you don't have a humidifier in the house, get one. Don't use the one built into the machine) you'll not only sleep better, but you and your wife will be healthier. Not just in warding off heart attacks and such, but simple colds! My husband, who got sick every year, hasn't been sick since he got his CPAP (4 or 5 years ago!)
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Your wish is my command, FG.
Well, not really, but I'll give you a freebie this time.
Posted by Dead_Horse (Member # 3027) on :
It runs in my family. My maternal grandfather died from either a heart attack or falling asleep at the wheel, both attributable to sleep apnea. My father wrecked a rental car in Mexico. He had no idea he was falling asleep briefly multiple times during the day. He just felt exhausted all the time. All of my maternal uncles and one aunt have been diagnosed.
Now we all have our CPAPs and are much less crabby and tired. I also get sick less often. (The vibration of the throat while snoring causes friction abrasions, which allows germs to get in.) I love my nose hose.
Oh, and I don't have that bulky contraption in the picture. I have a Simplicity mask that just covers the nose, and a modified headgear that is only one strap...much less confining. I had one like the one in the picture at first, because the medical equipment store was out of the one my doc prescribed. It left two little rectangular weepy sore dents in my forehead every morning.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Yeah, if any of you have tried using a CPAP and are having problems adjusting to it, then you're probably not using a mask that suits you very well. There are hundreds of different styles, but most respiratory care companies only carry a half dozen. Ask to try on different masks. Also, they may have fitted you with the wrong size, so you may be experiencing leakage. For example, I have a very small nose, so I have to use an extra petite mask, or the equivalent of what they'd fit onto a child. There are masks that fit around the nose only, ones that cover mouth and nose, ones that go in the nostrils, some that have gel for a better fit (but I can't use because I'm allergic to the gel), and so on and so forth.
My allergies improved drastically after I started on a CPAP machine. Heck, my entire immune system improved after CPAP.
Also, something like half of those who are eventually diagnosed with apnea were originally diagnosed with depression. The systems can be so similar, and primary care physicians so unfamiliar with sleep disorders, that it's that common. If you're on any medication, don't be surprised if you have to change dosages after you start on CPAP. But do it with your doctor's advice.
There can be some rather pleasant side effects of getting enough sleep. For me, I went from having the periods from hell that lasted 2-7 weeks long to having normal 3 day ones. If you used to get up several times in the night to pee, get used to not having to do that anymore.
Life is seriously much better on CPAP than off. Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
Oooh, Star Trek. Beam me up.
So if sleep disorders can go together, is there a chance that poor sleep rhythms could be making this worse? Like staying up late? I thought that the narcolepsy was just the body trying to make up for interrupted sleep.
My mother in law couldn't adjust to the CPAP, but she has some kind of machine that concentrates oxygen and she just wears an oxygen tube at night. I guess the theory there is that the breaths she does get will be more oxygen rich.
My husband has it, but he is not tall and slim. Sometimes obstructive sleep apnea can be a complicating factor in keeping someone overweight, since sleep deprivation correlates with some elements of metabolic syndrome (too much cortisol, insulin resistance.)
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Well, there's some controversy as to what came first, the obesity or the apnea. Sometimes, obesity can cause apnea, and sometimes, apnea can cause obesity.
The old criteria for apnea used to be middle-aged overweight male. I say old because they're starting to see that that's just who was being diagnosed, not who actually had it. Like me, for example. Female, slim, and young - at least, I was when I first started experiencing it. I just didn't get diagnosed until at least a decade after the sleep deprivation became a huge problem, and by that time, I'd gained a lot of weight, at least partially due to the apnea.
The thing about sleep disorders is that one can always make another one worse. I've been through several sleep labs. Once we got the PLMD (period limb movement disorder) treated with medication, I was much easier to diagnose for apnea, but until then, I was waking up from the PLMD 2-4 times a minute that they couldn't really tell how bad my apnea was. I also had narcolepsy, but that went away as soon as I started treatment for the primary sleep disorders. Same as my nightmares, sleep walking, sleep terrors, and all the rest of it. It all went away as soon as I got treatment for the apnea and the PLMD.
If your mother in law can adjust to being on oxygen, she can probably adjust to being on CPAP. But the biggest problem that I've seen is that so many respiratory therapists (in Canada, at any rate, they're the ones who sell and fit the CPAP machine and equipment) don't care to take the time to explain how everything works, explain about adjustment periods, get masks and such to fit properly, and all the rest. They tend to sell the equipment, and as soon as they have their money, they're gone. But a good respiratory therapist will make sure you have a good fit and will follow through to make sure you're adjusting and will help you along the way.
My first month on CPAP was difficult. I ended up tearing the mask off after an hour or two initially - couldn't stand it. Eventually, I made it up to wearing it a full night. It took me six months to get used to the noise from the CPAP machine - I'm a really light sleeper. It can be a hassle adjusting. However. The benefits outweight the inconvenience by a long shot. I stuck with it because I can be stubborn and obstinate and I was sick and tired of feeling sick and tired. It paid off. But if the therapist doesn't explain that everyone goes through an adjustment period and that it does get better, many patients just give up. They don't see the point.
If you or someone you know is having trouble adjusting to being on CPAP, find a support group if you can. There are some online. Talking to others with the same medical problem and the same treatment can hugely help.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Wow, I knoew about hthis stuff, but I am supreised by how many people here it has affected.
quote: I thought that the narcolepsy was just the body trying to make up for interrupted sleep.
Even if it was, which I am not sure I believe, every time you stop breathing you are interrupting sleep, so it would still make sense.
I have wondered if I have mild narcolepsy. I certainly have inherited my father's ability to fall asleep anywhere instantly. (Keep in mind, my father has been diagnosed with sleep apnea, and supposedly this stuff can run in families.)
When I was in my early twenties and commuting to work in the mornings through Dallas rush-hour traffic, I would struggle almost every day with falling asleep repeatedly at the wheel. It was *really* scary sometimes. I can't trust myself to drive very long because of it.
All growing up I couldn't read much and sometimes couldn't do my homework because it put me to sleep. Reading still has that effect on me. And whatever my morning class was at school, I spent much of it in and out of sleep.
I have also occasionally experienced that feeling of all my muscles suddenly threatening to go slack, but I jolt back into control before it totally takes hold. This can happen while I am walking about even. This hasn't happened to me in awhile though.
All I have to do is get bored and still enough, and I start to fall asleep. It is really annoying. But it isn't near as debilitating as I know it *could* be, so I have never bothered to do anything about it.
[ January 25, 2005, 01:28 AM: Message edited by: beverly ]
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Um, beverley, I would strongly urge you to see a sleep specialist about this. Now.
What you're describing could be narcolepsy, or it could be severel sleep deprivation. Either way, it's better to get it checked out. What you're describing is not healthy.
As for apnea - yes, it can run in families. Not the same way heart attacks and diabetes run in families, but still.
With obstructive sleep apnea, for example, it's most commonly caused by the throat collapsing during sleep. The throat collapses easier when the person has a larger neck because the weight of the tissue surrounding the esophagus makes it easier to collapse. For me, it's because my throat is oval, so the flat sides collapse. But we have larger necks in our family anyway.
You know how pregnant women sometimes have problems sleeping in their last months of pregnancy, but find that sleeping in a recliner can make it much easier to sleep? That same short-term solution is also good for those with apnea - the elevation makes it so that gravity isn't working on the neck tissue in the same way, so it can help.
And I have read that apnea can affect women in late stages of pregnancy because of the weight gain. I'll see if I can find a link.
Anyway. Both of my brothers have apnea, as does my mother, and so do various aunts and uncles and cousins. On both sides of my family. (But then, given how I'm related to myself in 49 different ways that I know of, my father's side of the family IS my mother's side. And vice versa. Ew!)
I've read statistics that indicate that something like 5-10% of the population is thought to have OSA (obstructive sleep apnea), but only 5% of those who have it have ever been diagnosed.
Posted by Tim Huesman (Member # 7332) on :
Yes, it takes time to adjust to the CPAP mask. I loved the Capt Space Commander imagery. Plus you get to wake up and sound like Darth Vader. One drawback, you tend to swallow a good bit of air, so it finds its way out again. Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:There are times that I snore so loud that I wake myself up.
Awww... poor Porter. *pat*pat*
My Mom has it REALLY bad. I think I might have it too...but I have no way to check and no money to see a doctor at this point. Hmmm... I need to find a sleep-mate to watch me!
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
quote:Awww... poor Porter. *pat*pat*
I assume you mean poor Bev!
Hobbes Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
quote: One drawback, you tend to swallow a good bit of air, so it finds its way out again.
I don't have that problem. Is it possible it's an adjustment problem? I have no idea how long you've been on it, so I don't know. Or perhaps you need a chin strap to remind you to keep your mouth closed while you sleep? I was a mouth breather before CPAP, but not since, and I seem to recall what you describe as from mouth breathing.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
quote:I assume you mean poor Bev!
*gasp* You're right!
Awww.. poor Mary... *hugs*
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I don't snore, but I am an extremely restless sleeper. And I always am tired. I only feel rested after about 10 hours of sleep. Maybe I should get a sleep study but I hate to spend the money.
AJ
Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
It depends on how much of a bite that is taking out of your lifestyle. But I think it's within the range of normal. Of course, I'm not a doctor, the following is a book report of a book written by a Canadian psychologist:
I read a book called Sleep Thieves by Stanly Coren, and he talks about how the circadian rhythms of the body seem to work with sleep. That's why I talk so much about having good sleep patterns. The body is most prone to sleep in a healthy person between 1-4, both A.M. and P.M. There were studies showing higher rates of traffic accidents at those times. There is also a spike in traffic accidents right after daylight savings and a dip in them right after the return to standard time, showing that many people are operating in a slim margin.
And the sleep hormones/food hormones is a cyclic thing. Insulin and Cortisol interact quite a bit and adrenaline and stuff like that. Insulin helps make seratonin, some of which is made into melatonin. Melatonin is the hormone produced when it is dark that essentially makes you sleep (again, if you're normal).
Caffeine, chocolate and exercise will interfere with sleep if used too close to bed time. The body has flexibility built into the biorhythms due to the changing length of days, and part of this system is a 12 hour echo. If you skip breakfast, you get the munchies at night. If you take coffee mid afternoon, you make wake at 3 in the morning.
Anyway, it's a massively cool book.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Unless stimulants have the opposite effect on you. Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
Now why is that?
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Dunno. 'Cause I'm weird I guess. Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Maybe your meds interfere??
When I was trying to get some rest before work, I woke up feeling unable to breathe and then I couldn't sleep because my heart was beating too fast... I don't think these are good signs.
Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
Now I'm worried. Sometimes I snore so loudly that people call me "chainsaw". Plus, I wake up once or twice per night, sometimes gasping for air. Hmmm...
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Let me see if I can give this some context for you . . .
Before I went on CPAP, I had 45 apneic events an hour. I never woke up gasping for air. Not once in all the years I've been having apneic events.
If you are waking up gasping for air, it's likely either apnea or stomach acid on your esophagus. You'll know if it's the esophagus if you still can't breath properly after a few minutes. If it only takes a few seconds to recover your breath, then the esophagus bit is out.
In other words, get thee to a sleep specialist immediately!
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Ha, it's probably that second one. I don't usually have problems with acid or heartburn, but I'm sure having it today.
Posted by AntiCool (Member # 7386) on :
Quick update -- I have a sleep study scheduled for April 2. I'll let you know what happens.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Good luck!
"Sleep well" seems counter-productive. "Hope you exhibit typical symptoms"? Yeah, that works.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
I second rivka's sentiments, AntiCool.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
I wonder if being in an unfamiliar place, knowing you are being watched, and being hooked up to a bunch of equipment would affect one's ability to sleep?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
That's what the baseball bat is for.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
It does for some people. I've done the overnight sleep labs, and I had no problem falling asleep. Over 1000 times. (PLMD, 2-4x a minute x 8 hours= 960-1920x. OSA, 45x an hour x 8 hours= 360x) Posted by Portabello (Member # 7710) on :
So, I just talked with the doctor about my sleep study.
Apparently it was mostly normal. I woke up more than normal during the night, but there were no low oxygen levels. A also get less than half normal of deep sleep, but I have normal levels of REM sleep.
So, it was a bust.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
I know that feeling. You don't really want to be sick, but you know that if they had found something, you'd probably stop feeling like crap. It's sorta bittersweet.
Posted by Portabello (Member # 7710) on :
I know. In the end, the only real symptom I have is that I'm too tired. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Do you ever have days in which you're more rested than others? Did you feel more rested after the sleep study than you usually do? I'm wondering if maybe you have an intermittant problem of some sort, or if there is something in your bedroom at home (an allergen or something) that is causing you to sleep more poorly than you did at the sleep study lab.
Posted by Portabello (Member # 7710) on :
I actually got what felt like pretty poor sleep during the sleep study, but they said it was fine. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Huh. That's odd.
I wish I had some brilliant insight for you, but I'm coming up blank. They didn't have *any* insight into this? Just "you seem fine to us, out you go"?
[ April 08, 2005, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: Noemon ]
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Did they say anything about whether you're cycling through the different sleep stages normally? If you got less than half sleep as is normal, they have to have some idea of what's going on. If they're seriously that perplexed, but they can see that you didn't sleep well, then they ought to do it a second time to see if they missed something. And they should pass the results on to another sleep specialist to see if the second knows something the first doesn't. Or you do that. But either way, don't just take their word for it. Get someone else to look at it.
There are a lot of sleep disorders, and most of them do not involve low oxygen levels or missing REM sleep.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
I am having a sleep study tonight, y'all. I finally decided that my roommate's having seen me stop breathing in my sleep, and my best friend having told me my snoring sounds like her father's (he does have sleep apnea) and the fact that I'm fatigued all the time, is something I should look into.
Sorry for bumping such an old thread, but my mind kept coming back to it when I thought about having this test done.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I only just saw your question, Noemon.
Nope. They gave me nothing.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Ryuko, good luck, and may you exhibit typical symptoms.
Porter, get a second opinion. Being tired and feeling like you're not sleeping well are not good signs, and they shouldn't just shove you out the door with nothing.
Posted by OlavMah (Member # 756) on :
I'm going through this whole rigamarole with doctors, though not for apnea. I've got insomnia. I'm on my 3rd doctor and here's what I've learned:
Sleep problems are extremely common and there are a LOT of them. Many doctors can recognize a few, so you need to keep switching doctors until you can find one that can recognize yours. I've been to a primary care doc, who put me on ambien (no effect) then sent me in for a sleep study, got the result back that I, indeed, did not sleep, and so she sent me on to a neurologist, who put me on anti-anxiety drugs for a little while, then didn't seem to remember me for the second visit, so I switched to doctor #3, who is a neurologist who specializes in sleep disorders. He's been the most helpful so far, and he's sending me to a cognitive sleep therapist. We'll see how that goes. I've had two doctors who thought a sleep study was a good idea and another that says they're useless for insomnia. I've had three different opinions about what might cause the insomnia, or what is even a possibility. I think the truth of the matter is that no one really knows.
But I haven't had a normal sleep cycle for as long as I can remember and this last bout of insomnia has gone on for... months? A year? I've lost count. It's been horrible. I've cut back on my work a lot so that I can keep quality up, but I have to be very choosy in my schedule. Each day I've got a small amount of energy, and I use it as best I can, but my house is a wreck and I feel blindsided by a bus at the end of the day. I don't feel sleepy, just exhausted beyond belief. This condition crept up on me so gradually that I didn't notice for a long time.
Anyway, the moral of the story is keep looking until you get the answers you need. Ignore the useless opinions, take a copy of your sleep study to another specialist, or another primary. Keep going!
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Sleep studies are not useless for insomnia if the insomnia is caused by another treatable sleep disorder, such as restless leg syndrome/periodic limb movement disorder, which can appear to be nothing more than insomnia until a sleep study is done.
OlavMah, I feel for you. I really do. I have two primary sleep disorders - apnea and periodic limb movement. It took me over a decade of feeling like hell and being diagnosed with depression and having a huge number of blood and urine tests to test me for everything but sleep. Good luck getting this sorted out.
Posted by OlavMah (Member # 756) on :
Hi quid, yeah, I've researched the matter quite a bit on my own and reached that same conclusion. It was worth getting one sleep study, but now I probably should not keep getting more, as some doctors would suggest. The result will be the same. Hours of data of me lying there doing my best impression of sleep, about four and half hours of actual sleep with few irregularities, and then a sudden awakening early in the morning and more of me doing my sleep impression until the alarm goes off. And yeah, one doctor put me on antidepressants. I think they're way too quick to turn to those. They didn't do much, except give me the side effects.
I'm curious about periodic limb movement though. I've heard that it's associated with latency of sleep onset. Is that true (for you, at least?)
Portabello, dumb question, but have you had blood work done? When I am exhausted the doctors usually test me for anemia and various viruses as part of the routine. For example, have they ruled out mono and epstien barr? (Of course, now that I check the date of your post, you may be all diagnosed and better now.)
[ August 16, 2005, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: OlavMah ]
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
OlavMah, sometimes, but not always.
For me, stress will make my PLM worse, as will being overtired. There are probably other triggers as well, and I can imagine that being too hot would contribute.
I've been told by the docs that PLM can be helped with calcium/magnesium supplements, herbal tea such as chamomile, and walking a couple of hours before bed. Hot baths can help relax the muscles (I'll never do that in this country.)
There are also drugs that work for it, too, but sometimes, you have to try a bunch before you find some that work for you. My first doc tried one with me, it didn't work, so he ruled out that entire class of drugs. I have no idea why, but I was too tired at the time to complain or do anything about it. Yippee.
Sometimes, the PLM will attack in the beginning of the night, sometimes in the middle, sometimes at the end, sometimes it'll skip around, sometimes it'll be the whole night. It varies. Which sucks.
Another comment, though. It's also possible that the sleep study you had, either you were uncomfortable or stressed or relaxed, and therefore not typical, or the tech didn't wire things up just right, or the equipment was using a 15-second averaging instead of 2-second averaging. (Think about the difference equipment like that can make if your leg movements only last 4 or 5 seconds. Still long enough to wake you up, though.)
It still might be worth it to get a second sleep lab. It could show different things.
On that note, my sleep labs gave very different results on both the severity of my apnea and my PLM. It happens.
Posted by OlavMah (Member # 756) on :
Okay, well that's good to know if I feel stalled out again with doctors. Right now I feel like I'm moving forward and that there's hope, so I'm happy (for now!)
What you said about limb movement monitoring is very good to know. Mine came out as zero, which does seem unlikely. Most people twitch a little!
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Bumping an old thread to say that I do have sleep apnea. I'm on the CPAP right now but it's really hard to keep it on all night. (sigh) But, you know, closure... Woo....
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Ryuko, how long have you been on CPAP? It took me a while, as it does most people, to adjust to having a mask strapped on my face and the noise of the CPAP. I think it took me at least a week before I stopped ripping the mask off in the middle of the night, about a month before I slept through the night, and about six months before I stopped noticing it. Something like that.
It's normal to take time to adjust. Just know that and be patient. It'll work out.
How bad was your apnea? The morbidly curious side of me wants to know . . . Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Not very bad, actually. I think I had six episodes an hour, fifteen if you count low oxygen or whatever.. I have had the CPAP for two weeks tomorrow, and I still haven't stopped ripping it off two hours into falling asleep. I really need a chinstrap... :/
Although last Sunday I kept it on for five hours in the night and it was pretty awesome. I can't seem to fall asleep right now, which is not a good thing...
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
It'll get better. Trust me - been there, done that. It's just an adjustment thing. Keep plugging away, and it'll work out.
A chin strap is a good idea, but I'll also tell you that most people I know who needed one only needed it for the first month or so. You're talking about still breathing through your mouth? Yeah, it'll change - again, it's an adjustment thing.
Six episodes an hour, or even 15, isn't bad. When I was at my worst, it was 45 an hour, but that changed to my current 6 or 10 (weight loss plus improved tone in throat? No idea.) My uncle is severe at 120 per hour.
Good luck and keep us posted. Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Thanks. I know it's not that severe, but it's really a relief to know that there actually is something wrong with me. I'm sure I've had it for a long long time and that my sleep debt is massive... I'm just looking forward to, someday in the future, not being tired all the time.
And with that, I'm going to take a nap.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
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She keeps waking me up and forces me to sleep on my side.
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