OSc, you wrote this: "Sorry, but we don't violate the copyright of songwriters by posting lyrics here."
Does that include our Lyrics Game, which has gone on for years, where we post snippets of lyrics, and then find new lyrics from one word of those? I did a search for that thread, and could not find it. It is one of my favorite Hatrack pastimes.
I just want to be clear. I recently posted lyrics, and I will delete them.
Is it any lyrics at all, with or without posting the songwriter? Is it only full lyrics? Are snippets OK?
Thanks. I have been good about not putting the full lyrics on here, except for a few times for songwriters I know are free with their lyrics.
[ April 24, 2005, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
Posted by Cow-Eating Man (Member # 4491) on :
Either I've helped you find a pass time or the moderation delete content they don't want.
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
Oops. What about the game where you take song lyrics and google-translate them from English to German, German to French and French to English, then post the result and people try to guess the song?
It's dead now, but was that against the rules? Should I delete it?
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Thanks, Cow-eating Man, when I searched for it with "lyrics" nothing came up.
Seriously, I adore this game, the first one, and the new version, too. Please let us keep it! we will give links, references, limit our lyrics to one or two lines, anything!
(Unless even that might get you in trouble.)
Posted by Grisha (Member # 6871) on :
Bump. I would rally like to know if the lyrics game is OK or not.
Posted by Eruve Nandiriel (Member # 5677) on :
I was wondering the same thing.
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
Based on what he said, I'd go with "no, it's not ok" -- but I generally tend to err on the side of caution. And if it turns out to be ok at all, I'd say there would have to be a far stricter limit -- a line or two at most. Posting sixteen lines of a song and connecting with the previous song with the word "you" is kinda ridiculous (if anyone did just that, I apologize -- I thought I was exaggerating based on memory rather than picking a single instance).
--Pop
Posted by Olivetta (Member # 6456) on :
What about the song-mangling game? The one where you post lyrics that are almost completely unrecognizeable due to processing through multiple translation bots?
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
I guess as long as they're mangled enough.... *smile* I don't know what the rules are on unauthorized translations.
(Please note that both these posts were me as me, not me as Janitor.)
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote: Posting sixteen lines of a song and connecting with the previous song with the word "you" is kinda ridiculous
But would that be okay if it was a public domain song? Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I'm curious why people would sue over having lyrics typed up. Don't quite understand how that could undermine their ability to make money.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
Sometimes I would post 16 lines because I wanted to get to a more recognizable part of the song, especially when I had a specific song I wanted to post and my linking word was buried in a verse someplace. And yeah, actually I do think I've used "you" as a linking word Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Telperion, Maybe it is because the lyrics are usually contained in the cd you buy? I am not sure, but I do know it is very difficult to use lyrics within a novel, or any writing. You have to get all kinds of permission.
Posted by ladyday (Member # 1069) on :
I had thought we went over this before, a long time ago, and it was decided by the mods that posting a short quote from lyrics was okay, but not the entire song.
Honestly I thought it was understood that you don't quote the whole song, but I can clarify specific rules if that helps.
Let me know?
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
That is what I understood as well, Ladyday, but now I am confused. OSC's post seems like it is not OK to post any lyrics.
Here is what he wrote:
"Sorry, but we don't violate the copyright of songwriters by posting lyrics here. First, because it's wrong. And second, because music publishers SUE."
He did not say "all the lyrics of a song," he just said lyrics.
[ April 25, 2005, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Elizabeth ]
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Lyrics, like any other created material, are copyrighted. Reproduction without permission is illegal.
Now, many artists post their lyrics themselves online, and probably don't care if you reprint them since that serves as free advertising for them. Some artists and companies sell lyrics sheets and books, so disseminating them for free would potentially damage those sales. But it's case-by-case deal, with the default being: don't do it.
Fair Use would extend towards a line or two being quoted without permission, although if it's to be republished in a commercial venture (such as a novel) you need to get permission.
Thing is, whether or not you feel it should be OK, it's not your call. It's the decision of the owner of the copyright, and no one else. Should copyright laws change (and that wouldn't surprise me at all, as the Internet runs roughshod over enforceable copyright) you might be able to post as you wish, but as it stands now posting entire or large amounts of song lyrics is illegal, and a forum that permits it is potentially liable. Your average podunk forum wuld prolly never get noticed, but the web site of a NYT best-selling author? Lawyers who didn't know much about author incomes might smell money...
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Actually, fair use can extend to commercial use as well, though almost always better to err on the side of caution.
Posted by ladyday (Member # 1069) on :
I agree that it's not a question of what we think should be okay. I actually don't think you should be allowed to post entire songs without permission, just for the record. I honestly thought the amount we were posting was within the law and would not be a problem in any way. I seem to remember this being something that not just hatrackers, but also the owners of the board, agreed on last time this issue came up.
As I said, I am not looking to break laws. As a gamer and an artist I have respect for intellectual property and think I hold myself to high standards of honesty and integrity when dealing with copyright laws.
Anyway, if I need to clarify rules (in my version of the lyric game thread) or I need to remove the thread, just say so. It's not like I don't want to do the right thing here :\.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Most likely the snippets being posted would be held to be within fair use. Whether or not that fair use could be cheaply defended if the music industry decided to pursue the cases as violations is another question.
The music industry has made a lot of people take stuff down over the years which they were within their rights to post.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I would just love to get the answer from the Cards.
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