Last night we all went to the family dental appointment. (They see all 5 of us in a two hour time span, working it so either hubby and I are in the waiting room with kids at the same time). We get there, sign, in...and the receptionist asks, "Where's the new one?" I don't know why, that question always takes me by surprise, and I usually just bluntly say, "He died". The receptionist almost starts to cry and keeps saying, "I'm sorry, I'm so sorry". She asked me his name and what had happened ( this really helps so much, you would have no idea how many people never even ask what we named him). The hygenist asked about him too. In a way, it's cathartic and helps... in a way it's hard. Obviously it helps more when someone asks about Benjamin than when they ignore him. It's just easier on me when I don't have to be the one telling people he died. Worst are the people I thought were my frieds who have never, ever mentioned him or expressed condolences.
Thanks for listening.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
*hugs*
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I actually like that you say, "He died." It's not fun to say, but I've grown to hate the euphamisms for someone dying. Maybe because it's such an abrupt sentence, it seems like it fits the abrupt event.
*hugs romany*
Posted by Raia (Member # 4700) on :
(((((romany))))) Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
I go through that every time someone asks me about my parents (and I'm sure a lot of other people here can relate with their loses).
Just a few days ago a couple of the women in the office were asking about them. At my age its just natural to assume that a person's parents are alive. I never know how to say it. Whats harder is that they usually ask about one first, then the other. So its "Is your Mom back in NY?" Ummm, no, she's no longer living. "Your Dad then?" No, him as well. The looks I get make me very uncomfortable.
Has anyone figured out how to deal with this?
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Don't blame your friends for not saying anything though. They are just trying to do what they think will bring you the least pain. Everyone has their own way of dealing with loss, and they tend to project their own ways onto you. I bet they think you don't want to be reminded of the loss, as thats how they handle things.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
((((Xavier))) That has got to be hard. I'm sorry you lost your parents so early.
That is a good perspective. I know that intellectually, I need to work on remebering it.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
There's a quote I read somewhere from Barbara Kingsolver... Let's see if I can remember it...
"The friend who holds your hand and says the wrong thing is made of dearer stuff than the one who stays away."
Having been through situations where I was on the recieving end of sympathy and questions and being ignored, I know how true this is. I try to say the right thing, but I hope my friends will forgive me for saying the wrong thing, because I make the effort to be there anyway. (((hugs)))
Posted by Wendybird (Member # 84) on :
I must have missed this. I am so sorry romany. (((Hugs)))
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Xavier maybe saying automatically they are both dead when someone asks about one parent? Because if they don't know you well enough, then they'll naturally ask about the other parent, since they are being nosy to begin with. Or you could say that it's an extremely painful topic and you'd rather not discuss it, but that normally doesn't work with nosy people either. "Both my parents are dead" in a blunt matter of fact way would probably shock them enough to not be as nosy afterwards.
as for romany *hugs* I wish there was more I could do...
AJ
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Thanks for sharing that experience, romany. It makes me think about how I can better handle this sort of situation. In fact, not long ago, I was talking to someone about their husband, and she told me "he died a couple years ago." And whereas I normally would have probably said something about being sorry and changing the subject, I talked more about him with her. She seemed to appreciate it.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
bev, that makes me feel good.
Being listened too helps so much.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
*hug*
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
coffee anytime, romany - *hugs*
just let me know -
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Keep talking, Romanylass. I'm thinking about you.
Posted by BotaLadyG (Member # 7053) on :
{{{romany}}}}
Nicole
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
It reminds me of something that happenned the other day... Mother's day was on May, the 29th this year. Last week a teacher was giving cards to give your Mom, you know, the cards with "Mom, thank you for my life" and then blanks to fill. He tries to give me one : politely, I refuse, saying him that my mother is dead (of course I could have accepted but I did things like that before and sometimes it ends really badly with people absolutely sure that my mother is alive and very angry when they discover the truth). He has this funny look, then smiles and then says "for your grand mother, then !" and I have to say him that they are both dead too. People should know better. And of course (((Romany))) Maybe I'm being stupid, but if people don't ask you how you named the baby, it may be because they don't know you can name a baby who was dead when he was born. You've been lucky to be able to grieve that way. Here, a few years ago, the body of a baby born dead couldn't be treated like a human body, it was thrown away, and even nowadays some parents have to fight to bury their child.
[ June 02, 2005, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: Anna ]
Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
I prefer a friend who holds my hand and says nothing. But I'll admit I'm weird. (((romany)))
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
I must be weirder, because I prefer a friend who doesn't hesitate to show happiness and who helps me to forget about my pain.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
*hugs too*
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
(((romany)))
I can't offer any words of wisdom, or even any that will make you feel better, but I'm holding you tight in my heart.
space opera
Posted by St. Yogi (Member # 5974) on :
quote:I prefer a friend who holds my hand and says nothing. But I'll admit I'm weird. (((romany)))
quote:I must be weirder, because I prefer a friend who doesn't hesitate to show happiness and who helps me to forget about my pain.
This is why it's so hard to know how to react in circumstances like this. Everyone has different needs in the face of grief.
(((romany)))
Posted by whiskysunrise (Member # 6819) on :
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
Thanks everyone...
Anna, what country do you live in? I'm sorry you had to face that on Mother's Day.
Shan I do want to get together with you. I need to arrange it with Brian.
Posted by johnsonweed (Member # 8114) on :
I think that many Americans have developed an uncomfortable relationship with death. The past couple of generations have not ever really had to confront it in any "normal" way. By this I mean that the combination of medicine and hospitalization has made death somthing that happens "in there" and we don't have to deal with it right now. In fact, I recall when my Uncle died last year, my Aunt (his sister) stayedin the hospital room with his body, and the rest of the family was very freaked out about it. I was thinking at the time 'how odd that we are freaked out since family memebrs used to die at home not long ago what would we have done then?'
You know, I can't even remember the last time I went to a wake with an open casket, it's all cremation now. Even to me death seems less real and I suspect that the consequence is that many (including myself) don't really know how to deal with it. This is why I think folks don't ask questions about your son, because it makes it too real and that's uncomfortable; and as someone said above, "if I'm uncomforatble, then you must be too, so I won't ask."
I hope I'm not being too clinical about this, but you did make me think. I probably would be one of those folks who wouldn't ask any questions. However, it doesn't mean that I don't care, in fact, it's just the opposite. I have two children and I don't know how I could go on if one of them were to die.
Posted by Dragon (Member # 3670) on :
(((((romany)))))
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
No, you're not being too clinical. These things do make you examine the way our society views and deals with death ( once you get out from under the "taking everything personally" cloud). No parent knows how they could deal with the death of a child until it happens; even then, it takes some work.
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
((( romany))))
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
Romany, I live in France. Actually the all Mother's day thing wasn't too painful, because Mom hated Mother's day. She always said that she had chosen to be a Mom and that that was one of the things that brought her the most joy, so we didn't have to thank for anything, or if we did, then we should create a "daughter and sons" day to thank the children. It made me smile to remember that. Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
(((romanylass)))
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
johnsonweed, I agree with you. When I was a child, funerals were sad, but they were not morbid. People wore whatever dress they had that looked nice, they cried, told stories, and ate picnic food.
My husband's family is Catholic(well, I am too) in Massachusetts, and a funeral is such a different thing. You would be run out on a rail for not wearing black, and laughter is rare.
My husband's cousin passed away last week, and we were all devastated. Many people in the family thought the children should not be at the funeral. What?? This was their father, and they should be excluded from the celebration of his life?
They were there, with balloons and laughter, playing tag among the gravestones at the cemetary. And I could feel their belief, their certainty, that their dad really was in a better place.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
quote: They were there, with balloons and laughter, playing tag among the gravestones at the cemetary. And I could feel their belief, their certainty, that their dad really was in a better place
I just love that image, Liz. Posted by Beanny (Member # 7109) on :
((((romanylass))))
Posted by Wendybird (Member # 84) on :
My mom had a baby born too early, at about 5 mos gestation and the boy lived for an hour. Back then they just took the baby after he died and she didn't get to bury him or anything. It really effected her. I didn't even know about this little brother until I was grown because I think it was too painful for her. She really didn't get to have any kind of "closure" of sorts. Its important we get to greive however we need to.
(((Romany))) If you posted what happened I missed it and I'm sorry. I will continue to pray for you. Its a hard thing to go through.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I'm so sorry to hear about your little brother.
Posted by Wendybird (Member # 84) on :
Thank you. I look forward to meeting him someday given my belief in the afterlife. Sometimes I wonder if he isn't a guardian angel for our family.
I know your sweet boy is watching over you. And your son is right. He is always with you in your hearts. (((romany))) *wipes some tears and says a prayer for romany's family
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
I don't think that people are less comfortable with death than they were, I just think that each culture has a different way of dealing with death. Maybe some cultures are changing and that does make people less sure of how to deal with it, but I can't really relate to that. My religion has dealt with death the same way for thousands of years and I find it very effective (we bury within 24 hours, always closed casket, followed by 7 days of ritual mourning, additional periods of mourning for family members, and we commemorate the death every year). I've always found the shiva (7 day mourning period) very natural and comforting and I always felt it was a shame that other religions don't have the same practice.
romany, I think that some people avoid talking to you about Baby Benjamin because they don't want to upset you. I know that I have a hard time talking about Baby B and Baby C with casual acquaintances and even sometimes with close friends. I can't say what happened without euphamisms - I usually just say that we lost them or that they didn't make it. A lot of people project how they'd feel onto others (I'm certainly guilty of it at times) and I think that's what people are doing. I hope, in time, that things do get easier for you.
This thread has given me a lot to think about, though, and I'm really going to consider how I react to people when they tell me sad news.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
quote:I've always found the shiva (7 day mourning period) very natural and comforting and I always felt it was a shame that other religions don't have the same practice.
I have always liked this idea. My friend Cheryl ( who stayed with the kids when we were in the hospital)is Jewish, and in many informals ways she has "sat shiva" with us. It's ben very comforting.
((hugs)) I'm sorry it's been so hard to taok about Baby B and Baby C. I don't think all euphamisms are bad, if it makes it easier to get the words out. (But I am finding that some of the euphamisms related to pregnacy and baby loss make me want to scream).
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
I wish I had words that could comfort. Instead, I'll send prayers for healing and peace. The long night watches are lonesome and painful and fraught with memories - wrap them in gossamer threads and rock them gently to sleep. Be at peace . . . (((romany))) and (((Mrs. M))) and hugs all mothers everywhere -
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
"I don't think that people are less comfortable with death than they were, I just think that each culture has a different way of dealing with death."
True, and different parts of our culture deal with it in different ways. I just think that children shoudl be included. My mother died when I was eighteen months old. I was very sad, since I was little, that I was not at the funeral, even though I would not have remembered it.
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