quote:

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I also think he contradicts himself when he says he wants to exercise so he feels better, but doesn't think that weight loss makes you healthier. You feel better becuase you're getting healthier obviously.

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quote:

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evolution doesn't care, as long as the species has an improved chance of survival.

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I'm sorry, but this is a particular pet peeve of mine. Evolution does not act at the species level, unless you buy into a particular brand of the theory which is espoused by E.O. Wilson (and others, of course).

While I was happy to see ANYONE using a cogent argument for inherited traits and don't really mind practically non-sensical sentences like "evolution doesn't care..." (which is, of course better than saying "evolution cares...")...

it just really chaffs when I read people say things about evolution operating on the species level.

I'm sorry, but the basic, pure thought of evolutionary theory is that it operates on individuals and, at most, close relatives (hence the concept of inclusive fitness).

From it, species arise, split, die off, etc., but it is all about reproductive fitness -- which critters out of a group of critters have the most offspring that survive to adulthood (i.e., reach reproductive maturity).

diversity of genotypes (and thus phenotypes) within a population is good for the survival of a species precisely because there are enough different types of individuals around (with enough different traits) so that when conditions change rapidly, at least a few will survive to produce the next generation.

Okay...I'll end my rant here.

It's a fine essay. I'm just bugged by the common misperception of what evolution really says.

I think it's the source of many of the arguments about it...

Thanks for listening.

I'm done now.

Really.

I feel much better.
 

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Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :
 
Evolution does act on the species level, but not in the same way it acts on the organism level, or cell level, or even gene level. The only reason this is true is that species do not reproduce discretely the way individuals (organisms, cells, genes) do. But there is evolutionary pressure on species in the sense that if two species occupy the same ecological niche (or overlapping niches), the one best able to survive is more likely to be present if you look a week, a year, a decade down the line. It's almost a tautology, really.

Some of the more interesting things, I think, about evolution are when different levels come into conflict. For example, the "interests" of an individual cell, at least in a limited timeframe, can conflict with those of the whole organism, as they do in cancer. It isn't too difficult to draw parallels with situations in which an individual organism's interest conflicts with that of its species.

But I fear we have gone somewhat afield. Carry on.
 

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Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
 
BMI 18.1.
 

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Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
 

quote:

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the one best able to survive is more likely to be present if you look a week, a year, a decade down the line.

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quote:

---

This phenomenon can be explained by the differential fitness of individuals within each competing species. It doesn't require that evolution "act at the species level."

In other words, if that is the sense in which evolution acts at the species level, it's the same as saying that evolution acts at the level of inclusive fitness of individuals. It doesn't add anything to the theory or explain any otherwise unexplainable facts.

---

Yes. But you can explain evolution at the organism level with evolution at the cellular level. I maintain that the only qualitative difference is the lack of discrete reproduction on the species level. I agree that it is not usually very useful to speak of evolution on a species level, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen or doesn't make sense.

Now, making silly claims based on a misunderstanding of evolutionary theory is a pet peeve I can fully support.
 

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Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
 
I just glanced through the article, now that I finally know what you meant by front page.

I am in full agreement with a lot of it. If people focused more on eating healthier foods and exercising regularly the actual BMI wouldn't be as useful a tool. Losing 5-10% of body weight and keeping it off with a healthier lifestyle makes a HUGE improvement in health, whatever the BMI. Even if they don't look like it. Most other people don't notice the change, and don't tell the patient how much healthier they are, even their doctors don't, then the patient gets discouraged and the weight plus more comes right back. Keeping up the exercise is so important at any weight.

You know, there are a LOT of unhealthy slender people. A lot of my slender patients in their 30s or older are sicker than the mildly obese ones. Many slender patients with a normal BMI eat poorly, don't exercise, or are addicted to cigarettes or booze or other drugs. Many have anxiety disorders or eating disorders. Usually the studies don't seem to highlight that enough somehow.

Focusing more on the weight of diabetics, sleep apnea patients, patients with heart disease or terrible family history, morbid obesity, and other chronic conditions is very important, don't get me wrong.

Also, the childhood epidemic of obesity is concerning and could be very bad for this country. I don't remember if childhood obesity is touched upon in the article. Whole different ballgame there.

I haven't really looked at the evolution comments on the thread enough. But I've seen endocrinologists who specialize in obesity talk about body types and genetics and how some bodies hold onto fat differently than others. Like American Indians tend to be more obese than other Americans, they have more apple shaped bodies on average, and have an epidemic of diabetes. That probably DOES have something to do with the type of body that tended to live longer and healthier in pre-Columbus times when they needed to eat and hold onto calories for the tough times. Now their descendants are cursed with obesity as a result.
 

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Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
 
Theca, I've never heard of apnea and obesity linked before. Would you be able to privde me with a bit of background? it would be awesome, thanks.
 

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Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
I've heard of that link. I used to work with a woman with her MD. I'd said that I was having trouble sleeping or something and that I thought I had sleep apnea, and she said that wasn't likely because I'm not fat. When I asked why that mattered she said that excess fat in the face and neck can close the airways and cause restricted breathing problems when people sleep.

I don't know any more details than that.
 

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Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
 
Really Eaquae Legit? Obesity is the number one risk factor for sleep apnea. People with very large tonsils are also at increased risk.

Here are 2 recent hatrack threads. I don't agree with all the the posts, but they are interesting.

http://www.hatrack.com/cgi-bin/ubbmain/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=031179#000000

http://www.hatrack.com/cgi-bin/ubbmain/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=026595#000000

And here is a link on general sleep apnea information:
http://health.yahoo.com/ency/healthwise/hw49127
 

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Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
 
Theca, OSC didn't touch on childhood obesity at all. It's something I'm very worried about. Having worked in education and childcare, I've seen firsthand what's happening to American kids and I think that the number of morbidly obese adults is going to skyrocket when these kids come of age.
 

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Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
 
Yes. These obese kids are not usually just healthy overweight kids and many will become unhealthy morbidly obese diabetic adults.
 

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Posted by alluvion (Member # 7462) on :
 
All I know is that "Fat" and "Gay" are competing for headline space on the 2-sides of hatrack.

I'm puting my money down on phat and grey.
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
There's a general misconception, also among the medical community, that skinny people don't have obstructive sleep apnea. It simply isn't true. Yes, a neck with more fat around it can either cause apnea or make existing apnea worse, but there's more to it than that. The shape of the throat can make apnea more likely to occur - ie, oval instead of round. Or a large neck even if it's not because of being overweight. Or the tongue can fall back into the throat.

But then, the general thought on obstructive sleep apnea used to be middle-aged, overweight male.

My doctors ruled out apnea in my case on the basis that, at least in the beginning, I didn't fall under even one of those criteria. After decades of severe sleep deprivation, however, and now I do - the overweight bit. I'm still not male or middle-aged, though. And now that we know the symptoms, we know that I've had obstructive sleep apnea since I was a small child - and skinny, back then. But then, I also had the oversized tonsils which were (mostly) removed when I was twelve.

But there's also central apnea, which is when the brain fails to send the signal to breath. Is not caused by being overweight or underweight or anything related to weight. But it can still be as harmful and have the same effects as obstructive sleep apnea.

One more thought. It's also not clear how many overweight people with apnea have apnea because they're overweight, or are overweight because they have apnea.
 

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Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
 
I agree, obesity is a risk factor, not a criteria. Sometimes people with poor sleep don't have sleep apnea but do have restless legs or periodic limb movements of sleep. And skinny people can have large tonsils or a small neck. So anybody should be sent to a sleep study if they have concerning symptoms and medical workup isn't coming up with other causes.

But as far as this topic of obesity is concerned, sleep apnea is a considered to be a possible consequence of obesity and obese people with sleep apnea can more likely get insurance to pay for gastric bypass or weight loss medications because the long-term consequences of sleep apnea are so costly.

[ June 07, 2005, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: Theca ]
 

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Posted by alluvion (Member # 7462) on :
 
you're pulling my "collective" leg, now, aren't you Theca? Sleep apnea is not that big of a concern, now is it?
 

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Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
gastric bypass is a pretty drastic and risky surgery. It's only suggested for people who are drastically over weight, like 400 pounds overweight.

And even then, it's very dangerous.
 

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Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
 
More like, you're trying to pull MY leg. The list of complications of untreated sleep apnea is impressive, however, so I'll list them anyway. This is from Yahoo Health, the link I just posted above:

quote:

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* Low blood oxygen levels during sleep. Low blood oxygen levels can lead to high blood pressure in the lungs (pulmonary hypertension) and in the rest of the body (hypertension). Nearly 50% of people who have OSA have high blood pressure. 1
* Heart failure affecting the right side of the heart. About 10% to 15% of people who have OSA develop pulmonary hypertension, which leads to right-sided heart failure. 1
* Irregular heart rhythms (arrhythmias) or heart failure, which may cause sudden death.
* Coronary artery disease (CAD).
* A greater-than-normal number of red blood cells, which may cause thickening of the blood.
* Death caused by blood vessel disease affecting the brain and heart (stroke and heart attack).
* Failure to resume breathing (respiratory failure) and sudden death, especially in the early morning (very rare).

---

 

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Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
 
Gastric bypass is a last resort, yes. But if the person's health is bad enough, sometimes it is the best chance at a longer life. You have to weigh the risks and benefits individually for each patient and patients have to go into it with the right attitude and work hard or it won't have a good outcome.

Consider the diabetic on 5 shots a day, sleep apnea not tolerating CPAP well, with hypertention. I've seen patients just like that come out able to get off insulin, off all blood pressure meds, off CPAP, and live a much happier and productive full life.

I saw a 450 lb woman wheelchair bound from her weight last year. She had to use a seatbelt to strap into her custom wheelchair or her huge abdomen would pull her forward right out of the chair. Her pulmonologist told her she won't live a year if she doesn't do the bypass now. She's been dragging her feet. I've made phone calls to her to encourage her, I've had pamphlets sent to her house, but she just keeps saying she just can't make the decision.
 

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Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
Wow. What do you do for a living?
 

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Posted by B-HAX (Member # 6640) on :
 
I hate being fat. I'm 27, 5'10" and weigh 250 lbs, and I'm miserable. Mainly because of the negative perceptions that I have on myself for being overweight. I come from a stocky family and we are all fat. I like to pretend to people that I like who I am but I don't. I get little support from the skinnies when I am dieting and excercising. That can eat what they want with impunity and I am forced to my salads, and low fat dressing. I hate who I am, it limits my ability to form relationships because of my low self esteem. I hate shopping for clothes and having to search for my size amung the plethora of 32's and 34's. I hate the look of disgust I get from women when I ask them out. I hate that I wrote this reply.
 

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Posted by alluvion (Member # 7462) on :
 
If fat is out, does that mean gristle is in?
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
Untreated sleep apnea can be very serious, as Theca, who is a medical doctor, outlined above. Let me tell you about a few of the side effects I experienced as a result of successful treatment (CPAP).

* no longer had to get up to pee 3-6 times a night
* no more sleep terrors, nightmares, or walking in my sleep
* no more narcolepsy (especially bad if you're operating heavy machinery or driving)
* no more periods from hell (they were so bad, I'd had many ultrasounds and finally exploratory surgery to find out what the heck was going on), which also meant far fewer pain relievers and no more need to be on birth control as an attempt to control them. Also, needed far less feminine hygeine products, so that saves me a few hundred dollars a year
* blood pressure (which wasn't very bad, but I had a history of low blood pressure before I gained weight) went down from 140/85 to 110/70. In a matter of a few days on CPAP.
* memory improved dramatically
* cotton-ball stuffed in head syndrome virtually gone, and able to think much more clearly
* no longer needed to spend 12-15 hours a night in bed - now down to only 8 hours of sleep
* headaches and migraines were reduced dramatically
* water retention went down within a few days
* spontaneously lost 65 pounds in the next few years (in other words, no diet or exercise contributed to that)
* eyesight improved from -2.75 in both eyes to -0.75 - don't wear glasses unless I need to see for distance
* no more tossing and turning during my sleep
* no more waking up frequently during the night
* allergies got better
* digestion improved

(There's a whole lot more, but I don't remember. I didn't say I now have a great memory - just better than it was before. )
During my overnight sleep lab, we discovered that my oxygen levels fell below 70%, while my heart rate went from 40 bpm to 160 bpm in a matter of a second or two or five. I only had 45 apneic events an hour. That's not very bad at all. In fact, it's considered to be mild-moderate.

Along with it, though, I also have problems under general anaesthetic. It suppresses my breathing response even more. I seem to lose the drive to breathe. My last operation, I told all the doctors and nurses about it in advance, and after surgery, when I was on CPAP (after they removed the tube from my throat), I had a nurse standing over me yelling at me to breathe for the next few hours. I was drugged enough that I knew something was wrong, but couldn't do anything about it. My oxygen levels (remember, I'm on CPAP at the time) were dropping below 80%, and the nurse kept very careful watch over me. Luckily, because I alerted them before hand, they put me in the step-down ward - one nurse, one patient. So if anything had gone seriously wrong, someone would know immediately. Now, I know enough about what happened to know that, should I require general anaesthetic again, I need to go on BiPAP, which basically means even more assisted breathing (without getting all technical). It also explains why I went into convulsions during previous general anaesthesia.

My uncle has severe apnea - 120 apneic events an hour. His heart rate climbs to well over 200 bpm during an apneic event. His sleep specialist told him in no uncertain terms that if he started on treatment now (he was 44 at the time) he could avoid permanent heart problems. If he didn't, he'd be dead in something like 5 years. Every male in his family has died of heart problems before they're 55 - going back 5 or 6 generations. His blood pressure also dropped dramatically, and he's also experienced spontaneous weight loss. He no longer has narcolepsy either.

My brother - same thing.

I could go on and on and on with stories like this from just my family. And then I could add hundreds more from the patients of my respiratory therapist (I worked in her office as an accountant for a few years).

Every single person I know who has been diagnosed and subsequently treated for apnea has experienced a dramatic shift towards health.

During an apneic event, a person stops breathing, and because there's now less oxygen in the blood stream, the heart speeds up, trying to compensate. That's why there's such a huge increase in beats.

Think about all those stories you hear about people having heart attacks in their sleep.

Do you see the connection?

Is obstructive sleep apnea that big a deal? Oh yeah. It really is.
 

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Posted by mimsies (Member # 7418) on :
 
((((B-HAX))))

Last fall my husband said to me "You know it's not that I have no libido or that I'm not interested in sex. I know you haven't been able to lose weight since the baby. I know it's not your fault. But you totally turn me off."
 

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Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
 
(((Mimsies))), that's just so wrong.
 

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Posted by bunbun (Member # 6814) on :
 
Mimsies, I feel for you. I've struggled with weight alot in my life--especially in high school. A friend of mine from high school, recently told me she's developed a weight problem and her doctor has told her to start losing it. She was one of the dreaded few who could eat anything and not gain an ounce.

She said, "I get it now. You were my friend and I just saw you. I didn't understand why you had a such hard time being fat. But I can see now it's a power thing--no one laughs at your jokes, and it's like people think being fat is all your fault."

This issue is a real pet peeve for me because it's caused me so much heartache--people in this country are so looks obsessed and they can be so hateful. These days I really have to leave the scale out of it (go Belle!). I am not my dress size.

Thanks for letting me blab.

Bunbun
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
mimsies, I am so sorry.
I wonder, though, if there is more to it than your weight, but that is what he sees. Could it be something esle, like a hidden(to himeslf) jealousy of the baby?

Belle, you go girl!

I am not throwing away the scale, my husband could cre less how heavy I am, but I want to play soccer again, and I have to be trim and in shape or I will hurt myself. I just want my athletic self back.
 

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Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
Could the problem be the strong hatred people have for people who are overweight (Try reading Diary of a Fat Housewife, what an annoying book. She spends all this time ranting and raving about how much she hates being overweight and overweight people, then she goes on a dangerous and stupid diet that involves eating only 200 calories a day!) cause people to go on ridiculous diets, such as crash ones which just makes people gain more weight when they get off of the diet?
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
The thing is, I don't think as many people "hate" fat(or overweight) people as everyone thinks. I think we just do a lot of self hating.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I don't think it is hate. I do think it is a matter of being invisible. My mother was very overweight (and it did contribute to her death). She said it was like she wasn't there. She had to be twice as loud, twice as competent, twice as everything, because the assumption was often that she had little to contribute. She had to fight for respect. I don't think she ever encountered hate, but she did encounter scorn and indifference.

I was reading an article about the experiences of people who have lost more than a hundred pounds. It didn't change who they were inside, but it did indeed change how people responded to them, from co-workers to strangers on the subway. It's sad to realize that the kindness of strangers varies greatly depending on how good you look.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
True, Kat.
Someone at the funeral told my mother-in-law last week:

"Wow, you look great! You're half of yourself!"

Whoa, did we analyze that family moment!
 

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Posted by Anastasia (Member # 8159) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by quidscribis:

Every single person I know who has been diagnosed and subsequently treated for apnea has experienced a dramatic shift towards health.

---

One of my very best buddies got a diagnosis of sleep apnea and a CPAP machine just a few months ago. WOW. She has a completely different life now. Now she is pretty darned excited about turning 60 (in August)healthy and with her personal life in order.
 

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Posted by Stray (Member # 4056) on :
 
As I'm fond of saying, "I have the body of a goddess. Unfortunately, it's a Neolithic fertility goddess." I know I weigh more than I should, and I have intentions of improving my diet (especially once my garden gets going and I have fresh produce right in the backyard). Sometimes I backslide and start eating a crappy diet again, though, mostly when I'm stressed and have no time or energy for cooking. Dinner last night was handfuls of semi-stale cereal straight out of the box >_< It was all I could muster the energy for.

Until a couple months ago I was going swimming three or four days a week, and I liked that--it's a sizeable time commitment, but it was a good destressor and helped couteract the rest of my very sedentary lifestyle. I got a skin infection a few months ago, though, and I'm waiting for that to clear up before I resume. I hope it clears up soon; I've already gained 5 pounds and my blood pressure's up about 10 points
 

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Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
 
Just remember that swimming is not a weight bearing activity. Adults need weight bearing activity, especially women, to keep bones healthy and prevent osteoporosis. Swimming and biking are good exercise but should not make up 100% of anyone's exercise plan.
 

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Posted by Stray (Member # 4056) on :
 
I also walk the dog for about half an hour every day, will that help?

I hate many, many things about exercising, but the thing I hate the most is the sweating. That's why swimming is my primary exercise, it's the only thing I've been able to stick with.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
Well, I even sweat when I swim.
 

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Posted by Stray (Member # 4056) on :
 
Yes, but since you're in the water you don't really notice it. At least I don't.
 

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Posted by mimsies (Member # 7418) on :
 
I imagine everyone sweats when they swim, but it isn't so noticable because you're submerged in water. And it is less... er... sweaty!

It's kinda funny we call the baby the baby still even though he's 5.5 now!

And yes, I think that it is NOT just the weight going on. I think he IS jealous of our son. Also he is the type who always has to be upset about something, always be worried or obssessing about something.

I think he picked the fat thing because he knows it is something that I am sensitive about. I mean, I don't think he consciously thought it out to be cruel. But if it were something else about myself that really bothered me, then that would be what he finds to be a turn off.

In fact I know he just gets hang ups about odd things. I get ovarian cysts every so often. He has complained THAT is a turn off, because he is imagining what is happening in my body and it is really gross. He has complained that thinking about things that happened in my childhood are a turnoff, and of course he can't HELP thinking about it according to him.

I think what really makes me sad is that I REALLY love him. But I just don't see our marriage lastiing much longer. He doesn't seem to love me. It seems like he stays married because he doesn't want to be alone, and he doesn't want to go through all the difficulties of finding someone else.

well, I'm making myself depressed, so I better stop. :^(
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
*hugs mimsie*
 

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Posted by Stray (Member # 4056) on :
 
(((mimsies)))
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
Oh, dear. I am so sorry.
 

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Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
*hugs mimisies too*
 

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Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
((()))
 

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Posted by mimsies (Member # 7418) on :
 
wow, thanks ((((returns hugs)))). (I LOVE the screen name Mr Porteiro Head)
 

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Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
((mimsies)) it does sound like a sad situation. Have you two already tried counseling?

FG
 

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Posted by Anastasia (Member # 8159) on :
 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mimsies:
In fact I know he just gets hang ups about odd things.

We should be friends. He has the same reason: He just can't help thinking whatever it is he is obsessing about.

He probably isn't staying with you only because he doesn't love you or doesn't want to be alone. I think it could be that he acts that way because he spends too much time thinking about you, and then those darned "thoughts" (OBSESSIONS) start kicking in. It is what I've just started thinking about my husband.

I get ovarian cysts every so often.

Stop doing that. !!

My doc showed my husband pics of mine before and after surgery while I was still out. I really wish she didn't do it, but she couldn't possibly have known that I would have thought it was such a bad idea. He seems to be doing well about seeing them, though.

I think what really makes me sad is that I REALLY love him.

I understand this one, too!

I hope that you have friends and family that can help you to remember that you are OK.
 

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Posted by mimsies (Member # 7418) on :
 
We went to a really good counselor for awhile, but she was an intern, and when she graduated she wasn't allowed to practice anymore. He refuses to go back to another counselor. I wish he wouldn't refuse. I think we were really making headway with the help of our counselor.

Anastasia cool, allies in dealing with weird husbands!

Although, in a discussion when I brought up splitting up he said "No" but not because he loved me too much or anything like that, but because... He doesn't want to be alone, he doesn't have anyone else he is interested in, and he HATES the dating game. Nothing about love in his reasoning. nothing even about it's better for the child if we are together (which is how I feel).

Why I haven't left him yet, well, I really love him (although I don't usually know why), I could not afford to be a stay at home, home schooling mom if we weren't together, Sequoyah would suffer, Sequoyah would be sad, Sequoyah would have a hard time with it, It would be hard on Sequoyah.

Yes my family is awesome, and I have some friends that are pretty wonderful too. And according to Sequoyah, I am the best mommy in the world. He is such a blessing.
 

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Posted by Anastasia (Member # 8159) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by mimsies:
Nothing about love in his reasoning. nothing even about it's better for the child if we are together (which is how I feel).

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quote:

---

Originally posted by TMedina:

The whole "long hair" thing has got to be a smokescreen for something else because I have a difficult time believing that is enough to turn anyone off from sex, unless it was a serious issue and it would have appeared long before now.

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quote:

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Originally posted by TMedina:
Anastasia - I wouldn't dream of asking you to discuss the details of something so very private.
-Trevor

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Hah! I thought that perhaps you thought the words "long hair" had "never bathes" as a referent.

Although this is rather off-topic, I had a calculator named Trevor once. Nice name. I thought about reusing it on my son, but my husband was quite adamant about not naming children after calculators.
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
Sorry for the confusion.

By serious issue, I meant something like a literal phobia of long hair or something equally clinical.

-Trevor

Edit: For clarity.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
Well, but that theory falls down when you think of all the skinny(starving)people in the world with nothing to chase.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
You gain wieght when you ingest more calories than you use. You lose weight when you use more calories than you injest. There are many things that affect weight, but I think they affect how many calories you use and/or get rid of.

We eat more. We eat larger portions, and those portions are denser with calories.
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
And we have jobs that require less strenuous physical activity.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
And we have all kinds of indoor entertainment - kids don't go outside to play anymore they sit inside witht he tv or the xbox and don't run and get the exercise they should.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
Just read the study they did with the Amish. Go on the Amish diet: meat, potatoes with gravy and buttered rolls, pie with cream for dessert.

How do they stay slim and healthy? They work and walk their behinds off.

http://www.ediets.com/news/article.cfm?article_id=7891&pg=1
 

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Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
Yeah, I like to eat. I don't eat sweets every day or anything, but I want to be able to enjoy a piece of cake if it's someone's birthday and not feel "guilty" about what I'm eating.

So, I will exercise enough that I don't have to obsess over what I'm eating. I've stopped obsessing over food just like I've stoppd obsessing over the scales. The only numbers I do keep track of are miles, and that's because I am plotting my total miles walked on a map to see if I can walk across America.

I do think that the quality of food you buy matters - in other words, I think that over-processed, chemical injected beef at the supermarket is not as good for you as free range beef is. We buy our beef directly from a local rancher, and when I have people over and they help me cook they are amazed at the lack of fat in the meat. We are out of our "good" beef and I had to buy ground chuck at the supermarket and I was amazed and appalled at the amount of fat I had to drain off the meat after I browned it. I'm not used to it, our beef is so lean.
 

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
I bought a reel mower a few months ago. I did so for a variety of reasons, but one of them was the fact that I don't particularly enjoy fueling up gas powered mowers, but actively enjoy fueling up myself. I'd rather eat something tasty to supply the energy to turn the blades than feel scandalized at the price of gas a little more frequently than I already do.
 

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Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
Buy a black and decker electric mower. I love mine.


I recently tried to start getting back in shape. I'm not overweight I don't think, I'm 5'7, 20, male, and 146lbs. But I feel like it's a lot more fat than muscle, and I haven't been on a date in a year, which I'm chalking up to a combination of low self esteem and being chubby.

Plus it's difficult when my four best friends are girls, and they never fail to point out the hot guys around, who look nothing like me. To a certain degree I want to be healthier and have more energy, but mostly I just want for once to be the guy in a bathing suit at the beach that a group of girls fawns over when they walk by.
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
Lyrhawn, you would be surprised at the number of women who find a one-pack belly attractive.

Belle, one of our supermarkets sells "Smart Chicken" now. We also have a Whole Foods near us, and I try to buy most of our meat there. I get chicken tenders and patties there because chicken in any form is a staple of my daughter's diet.

We also have a bison farm near us, but I have not dared to try it yet. it is supposed to be very good.
 

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Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
bison is very good. Very lean, a little dry (depending on how it is processed) If you buy some, be careful to not overcook it or it will be so dry you can hardly eat it. Try it, you'll like it!

FG
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
You're smart enough to realize this Lyr, but I'll point it out anyway - there is a difference between eye candy and date material.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
Yeah I realize the difference, because I've met a million hot girls who aren't worth a second of my time on a date.

Maybe I have to wait until I'm older and women are more interested in having a fun time than a hot guy.

Either that or I just suck at picking women to ask out on dates.
 

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Posted by TMedina (Member # 6649) on :
 
Well, if you're feeling brave, you could always ask a female friend to give you a critical assessment.

Make sure you put your ego in a comfortably padded box first.

It could be something relatively simple as - different haircut, new and vaguely fashionable clothes and so on.

Now, if the first thing she starts on is a ripped six pack, just smile, nod and move on.

-Trevor
 

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Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
 
I agree with Farmgirl about the bison. Good and healthy, and dries out easily. I used to buy it at the local farmer's market, till I moved.
 

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Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
 
I think any beef that is lean and doesn't have a lot of fat in it can be dry. Our steaks are excellent, but tend to be dry because there is very little marbling of fat in them. We have to marinate them for a long time and be careful not to overcook them.

Reminds me I need to call our rancher buddy and see when the next crop of calves will be ready. I'm out of ground beef and only have about two roasts and a few t-bones left.

Buying a whole cow directly from a rancher is also cheaper, in the long run. We pay by the pound, so our cost varies depending on the size of the cow, but we're paying the same price for ribeyes as we are for ground beef. And it's a whole lot better quality and healthier meat.
 

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Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
Does Bison make good jerkey? Or is it tough (tougher than regular jerkey, that is)?
 

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Posted by Theca (Member # 1629) on :
 
I've never tried the jerky. The bison sausage is kind of neat. Here is the place (in Wisconsin) my buffalo meat came from. You can see the options and prices, if you were interested.

http://northstarbison.com/
 

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Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
 
I was thinking about that, Dag!

My husband makes really good beef jerky, and uses beef that is as fat free as possible. We have a load in the freezer right now. So I imagine bison would be perfect for jerky.
 

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Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
Oh, thanks for the link, Theca.

I've always wanted to try making jerky. Do you need a dehydrator, or can you use an oven that can go on a low temperature?
 

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Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
 
B-HAX, first of all, thanks for this radical honesty. Second: I don't know what would make you happy (and HWP), but if you try enough different things, something might work! Best of luck.
 

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