Some shocking news in regards to my church has come to light. Our youth pastpr's had to be removed from their positions and have been asked to leave the church. As far as I know this is the first time my pastor has had to do something this extreme, and I totally agree with his position. As youth pastors they were responsiple for teaching our teens, and as we all know these people are the future of any church. As far as anyone could tell they were doing a wonderful job, the teens were energized and more active in the church then ever before. The teens loved them. However lately there have been several crack in their armor. A couple of youth were unfarely treated, and they seemed to play favorites. They were questions about their commitment as they were several times when they were not around for events they had themselves planned. However one incident is the breaking point to me. Usually we have young teens hold the tithe baskets in front of the church. One teen was standing with the tithe basket and was told (by them) to sit down and replaced with another teen. No reason was given. The teen who wa replaced was in tears.
This week they were not at church. After church was over there was an emercency meeting of the church leaders and for some reason I was there. While there the youth pastor's proceeded to disrespect our senior pastor. They pretended to believe in our church, everything they had done for the church was faked. They then told my senior pastor that for the entire time in our church they had learned nothing, they never believed in the church vision. To his credit my senior pastor remained calm. He gave them every chance to repent, he gave them the chance to rejoin the flock for awhile, he even offered one o one classes for them. They were not having it. The insults just kept coming from them. In the end there was no other choice but to remove them from the church. We will be giving them big send off, if only for the youth. The youth will be hurt. They didn't deserve this. Sorry for THe rambling..I just feel so betrayed right now...
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I am sorry your church is having this upheaval. It's hard when the people in the ministry don't live up to our expectations.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Let's hope some of your youths learn something about relying on authority from this episode.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
*shoos godzillatheist away*
I'm sorry this happened, Wowbagger.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Why would someone be a youth pastor in a church they don't believe? Were they hoping to meet girls?
Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
Well, they do get paid.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
But if you're willing to lie to that degree, couldn't you get a better paying job elsewhere? I mean, once you've lied that much, you might as well be in journalism or middle management.
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
In my experience, people who are angry at their church "never believed in it," and then when they repent and return, they "always believed in it." I think they're sincere both times. "Believing" and "always/never" are subjective concepts. For a lot of people, whatever you feel right now you have ALWAYS felt; whatever you don't feel you have NEVER felt.
People often break up with former lovers/spouses that way. "I never loved you." And then, coming back: "I always loved you."
Human nature. So you shouldn't take that seriously.
The real danger in youth leadership is that you try to lead by being one of the kids. Then you start ACTING like a kid, taking their side, teaming up against some kids, etc. The youth leaders are supposed to be above the fray, never ever ever taking sides - but to do that, you have to keep from ever trying to be "one of them."
After all, kids don't need more "friends," they need shepherds, leaders, pastors. People who are above their peer group, setting examples, boundaries, etc. Showing support and giving approval for good actions, showing love and speaking with honesty about their not-so-good action. Little of that work is possible when you're trying hard to be "one of them."
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Wowbagger, I'm sorry this has happened, and that it got this far.
I hope that the youth rise above their disappointment and feelings of betrayal to retain some activity and energy.
It's very tough, sometimes, to find people who are willing and able to do a good job in various church positions. I've not seen too many slots that people would take for the money, really, so I'm still kind of mystified by what would motivate these two.
It's also odd that there'd be two of them going down this odd path of, in essence, fooling the pastor and the congregation. Were they home-grown? Were they just slightly older than the kids they are interacting with?
Also, what kind of process is involved in selecting people to lead ministries at your church? Do the staff meet regularly with the pastor? Is there both a spiritual and a management direction for the staff?
Oh well...so many questions. I will just end with my hope that this episode is a rapidly fading blip in the life of your church. Sounds like there might be some lessons learned out of it, but the main thing would be to try to keep the youth group functioning.
Good luck...to all of you.
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
Just to clarify, they were a married couple. They joined the church about two years ago. He was a deacon I believe at the church he was at before he joined our church. They were about 30. I wasn't around when they were hired(I was serving oversear in the military at the time) but I imagine they were hired with all the rigors that the United Methodist Church usually requires. From what I gathered there never a question about them before hand, their formor pastor had nothing but good things to say about them. The leadership group is a seperate group than the church staff. There are leadership meetings every week.
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
Let me also add that they received full background checks (should be done for anyone working with children).
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
I assumed that your use of "they" was to hide the gender of theperson involved. For this to be two people , married or not, just seems somehow significantly worse.
I'm very sorry that (collective) you're going through this, and I hope that suitable replacements are located. I don't have any kinds of advice or suggestions or anything.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
The UMC has extremely rigorous standards for clergy. But from what you've described, these are youth leaders who were given the title "youth pastor" as a courtesy, not because they're licenced or ordained. So the only hiring standards that apply are whatever the local church sets. (And the backround check required by most Conferences for anyone working with youth.)
I'm sorry that this happened.
I find it absolutely bizarre that a personnel matter was discussed in a public situation, though. That should have been a closed meeting, not one where someone could "just happen" to be there.
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
I'm sorry things didn't work out with them. I'm a little confused, though--the couple was questioned about their job performance in front of a whole group of people? Is this normal? I would think that would immediately place them on the defensive and create a bad situation. If my hospital did that to me I'd be angry, say a lot of things I didn't necessarily mean, and then I'd probably quit.
And this was led by the head pastor, who tried to give them every chance to repent? Repent of what sin?
(whoops, Dana beat me!)
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
Sorry for the confussion but I am a member of the staff, and it was a closed door joint meeting of the staff and leadership. It just seemed weird to me because this was the first jiont meeting I've been apart, I newly a member of the staff. The senior pastor asked them a question about the youth ministry and thats when they started. It started off as a regular staff meeting, then the episode happened. Then I was told to leave the room while the church leaders had a meeting...And perhaps I should have choosen other words then repent. He had simply asked them to calm down and join the flock for awhile (the regular church membership. And when I said there were questions of their commitment, it wad from us, the regular members of the church. The Senior pastor never discussed any of that with regular members...That's why I had no clue this was coming, for all I know this could have been building for months, all I know is what I saw.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Ah, that makes more sense.
[ July 11, 2005, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: dkw ]
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Um, you broadcast closed-door meetings of your church to totally random people on the Internet? That's not very nice, is it?
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Why would someone be a youth pastor in a church they don't believe? Were they hoping to meet girls?
Youth pastors do this whether they believe or not.
Posted by Puppy (Member # 6721) on :
quote:Um, you broadcast closed-door meetings of your church to totally random people on the Internet? That's not very nice, is it?
It's not like he said WHICH church ...
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
I don't see what that has to do with it. Confidential is confidential. Anyway, for all he knows, all its members lurk here and recognise the situation.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :