This is topic 97% Likely, Jesus Was Raised From the Dead in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.


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Posted by everything_theory (Member # 8333) on :
 
Perhaps someone can make light of this.

This is just a simple link to a simple article which a friend of mine stumbled upon. I have no real interest in it. But I thought some of you out there might find a useful debate with this. Thank you, that is all.

~Captain Earl
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
Leaving aside the fact that those probabilities were pulled from an orifice upon which the sun don't shine, how the heck do you go from a 1/2 chance times a 1/2 chance to 97%?!?
 

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Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
 
Carefully, very carefully.
 

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Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
 
So there's a 1 in 2 chance that god exists, eh?

I suppose there's also a 1 in 2 chance that I'll wake up tomorrow with a million dollars stuffed under my door. Either I will or I won't.

*crosses fingers*
 

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Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
 
am I the only person worried that it is a professor of the most renowned university in Europe, if not the world?
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
I would be if he were a MATH professor.
 

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Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
 


*note to self: read articles carefully*
 

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Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
 
*Read Kama's Note.*
*Doesn't help.*
 

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Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
 
There's a -45% chance that I will buy this guy's book.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
This is hysterical:

"Finally, the clincher: the probability that we would have all this evidence if it wasn't true was one in 1000.

He argued that any evidence for the existence of God was an argument for the resurrection, and any evidence against the existence of God was an argument against the resurrection."

Isn't this basically arguing from the conclusion?
 

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Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
 
Here is some interesting reading on the calculus of it all.

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Suppose, however, that our neighbor Tom is accused of knocking his wife unconscious while in a rage. Although there may be no way to form a meaningful probability space here, we can nevertheless feel strongly that Tom is likely to have done it - or very unlikely. We do this by considerations that run deeper than merely statistical. Of course, if Tom habitually knocks people about while in a rage, then we may not need to go any deeper than the statistical. But if the accusation is unexpected and unique, then we begin to rely on things such as Tom’s character, as it is known to us, in order to support our feelings of the likelihood of his having done the deed.
[7]
This is what Swinburne is doing in his book. He is asking whether God is likely to have done certain things, and he is adding that in with the smaller world of history. Christians, of course, do believe that some things can be known about the character of God. I’ll look first at the formal treatment in the appendix, and then go to the material in Chapter 1.

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He is asking whether God is likely to have done certain things...

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According to Jewish law -- three full days of observance of those presumed to be dead before burial; making sure that the "dead" were actually dead was the purpose behind structures such as Joseph's "tomb" -- Jesus was never dead

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Oh, I'm glad I know that. That solves so many of my existential quandarys!
 

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Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
 

 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 

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Originally posted by aspectre:
According to Jewish law -- three full days of observance of those presumed to be dead before burial; making sure that the "dead" were actually dead was the purpose behind structures such as Joseph's "tomb" -- Jesus was never dead.

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False. According to Jewish law, the dead are buried absolutely ASAP. Preferably before nightfall of the same day.

This is particularly strict within the land of Israel.
 

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Posted by Rico (Member # 7533) on :
 
In some cultures they did have certain fears about burying loved ones while they still lived.

Some societies (I believe it was mostly seen in Europe during the 1800's) had a pole with a rope or chord that was rigged from the casket and led to a bell at the graveside. If someone should happen to be buried alive they could pull on the rope and signal someone by ringing the bell. The caretaker was assigned to stand watch at the grave for a few days (I guess a week was a safe bet) to make sure the person was really dead, at which time the device was removed.

But that doesn't have much relevance here I'm afraid, I don't think that exact custom was around at the time but maybe it's possible something similar existed.

I don't really think he was alive, I just thought it was an interesting anecdote
 

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Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 
According to Jewish TRADITION at at least the time Jesus was around, it was believed that after 2 days the soul would finally leave the body.

Hence Lazerus' being brought back from the dead after laying in the tomb 2 days being considered such a miracle.
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 

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Originally posted by BlackBlade:
According to Jewish TRADITION at at least the time Jesus was around, it was believed that after 2 days the soul would finally leave the body.

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quote:

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Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Hence Lazerus' being brought back from the dead after laying in the tomb 2 days being considered such a miracle.

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He was actually in there twice as long as that...

...and soul still in the body or not (I'll let rivka or our other Jews debate this) somehow I don't think it's any less of a miracle if the person comes back from being all dead...I mean...they were dead
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
BtL, that wasn't the type of proof I was looking for. But you get double points for cleverness and funny.


As far as Jewish beliefs on the spirits of the recently departed go, here it is in a nutshell: the soul leaves the body at the moment of death. However, it is chained to its former body until the burial. Therefore Jews traditionally bury the dead absolutely ASAP -- the same day whenever possible. Burial loosens the soul's ties to the body, but only the decay process will gradually release them completely. Which is why Jews bury the dead in shrouds alone (in countries which permit this) or in plain wooden boxes. (It's also why we don't cremate, which essentially rips the soul from the body prematurely.)

These have been our traditions for well over 2000 years. If someone wishes to claim otherwise, I would like to see a Jewish source backing them up.
 

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Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
 
What like Holishkes sauce?


*ducks*
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 


Yay for Google! I never knew that name for stuffed cabbage before.

I still don't understand what sweet-and-sour tomato sauce . . . oh . . . this is a weird-accent-so-you-don't-say-your-Rs-properly thing, innit?
 

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Posted by CT (Member # 8342) on :
 

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Originally posted by Frisco:

I suppose there's also a 1 in 2 chance that I'll wake up tomorrow with a million dollars stuffed under my door. Either I will or I won't.

*crosses fingers*

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I read this as "chance that I'll wake up tomorrow with a million dollars stuffed up my nose." And then I was wondering why and what Frisco was dealing. And then I got curious as to how he could breathe, because 1 million of anything is going to be a whole bunch, and really, although one can mouth-breathe (as many do at night), surely by the laws of physics he'd end up creating enough suction that he'd bring some of that 1 mill down into his trachea. Which would suffocate him. (Now why would he cross his fingers for that?)

Then I reread the sentence.
 

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