My kids love to play with the next door neighbors, but a few things make it difficult. One, they have a new baby, which makes things hard sometimes. Two, they are home-schooled, but never seem to be done with schoolwork when my kids are home. Three, they are not allowed to come over here and play anymore (I suspect) so it always has to be over there.
The last time the boys went over to play was yesterday, for maybe 15 minutes. That seemed to be fine. THe time before that, there was a problem, though.
We have started the kids doing some simple meditation. Just the 'sit still and think about breathing' type of thing. Liam was always a bit hyper, but starngely enough, he has taken to it really well. His focus and attentiveness has improved because of it. His martial arts instructor even asked me if we had put him on medication. In short, it has been very good for him.
Robert, who is naturally still and tends to be more creative and cerebral, doesn't like it much. Though wer have seen improvements in his attititude that correlate with the meditation, it has yet to show the kind of improvement we were hoping for. He tends to be very negative about everything. He has a bit of homework and soon he's shreiking, "I hate my life!" or "I wish I'd never been born."
Anyway, he tends to ape 'meditation' for laughs, and we're fine with that. I think mack even got a picture of him doing it for attention on a hike we did together. Anyway, last week he was playing on the neighbors' trampoline, and decided to sit on the thing in a meditation pose. I believe he did this for laughs. The little girl he's friends with told him that "meditation is praying to the devil."
Now, I have tried to be careful about respecting the neighbor's beliefs, because I don't want to be the sort of person who attacks people for their beliefs. I hope you guys here know that. I mean, at Wenchcon, I tried to make it possible for my Jewish friends to keep kosher and for my Mormon buddies to get to services.
My neighbors are Baptists. I was once a Baptist, so I understand that their attempts at tracting us and so forth are based on the belief that if they don't win us over, we'll burn in hell. I've tried to see it as springing from a place of caring about our immortal souls, even if we see them as being somewhat misguided.
I'm very close to forbidding my boys to play with them, even though it would be somewhat redundant at this point.
I've put up with a LOT. I mean, they weren't allowed to be here if the tV was on, because once they saw a little of PeeWee's Playhouse. There have been a few social overtures made by the mom, and I like her. I made them a cake when they came home with the new baby (I offered a dinner, but the church was taking care of them, so they didn't need my heathen speghetti).
I admit, I reacted badly to this one third party who played over there and called me to come get Liam because he'd hit her ( the third party's) little boy. Thing is, the boy was telling Liam to go away, that no one wanted to play with him, etc. Plus, it was over a year ago. I was coming to get them for martial arts anyway, and told them not to be chasing my cats. they said they were just chasing their cat, in my yard. Which was probably true.
The husband has given me books on Baptist childrearing, the implication being that we're bad parents. The wife has also loaned me tapes on sibling rivalry (which was considerably less insulting, I admit). They told me of a girl in their church who asked her mother, "Where do YOU want me to go to college? What do you think I should study?" as an example of an obedient child. O_O I was honestly mortified by the idea of raising a child to adulthood that would abdecate such personal decisions entirely to their parents. That was... scary.
We invited the girls to Robert's birthday party. We had an inflatable water slide in the front yard. They came out in their swimsuits, loaded up in their truck and went to the pool. Right when my son thought they were coming over, they turned and left. He wasn't invited to her birthday party (the parents just had another family over, and kept it very small), though they did send us some leftover cake, and let the boys play over there for a few minutes.
Maybe I'm not the best parent ever, but we're trying. When something like this happens, I just want to cry. We used to get along so well. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Livvy, you're doing what's right for your kids. You can't help, um, non-mainstream responses to it.
We had some extreme Baptist neighbors who used to give out Chicktracts on Halloween when we trick-or-treated at their house (with a little bit of candy-- to make it go down easier, I guess.)
I didn't babysit their daughters even though I babysat everyone else on the street because "It's God's plan for their mother to take care of them, and she shouldn't leave them"-- when she had to for a church function, they went to the nursery at the church. (I guess I could accept that one as a personal belief, but it's an example of how extreme they were.)
Then they stopped even talking to us, because their pastor told them not to "associate with the unsaved". (We went to church every week, just not their church.)
*sigh* It was hard. But when we started to condemn them, my mom told us, "They are just practicing their religion. You don't have to agree with it, and frankly, I don't think that's what Christianity is about. But you need to respect it, and sometimes the best way to do that is just by leaving them alone to do their own thing and not taking offense if they hurt your feelings."
So we tried, and pretty soon they moved away-- the area was too "heathen" for them, apparently.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I freakin' want tips.
How do you get them to sit still long enough to meditate?
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Thanks kq - I think with Katrina and allthis stuff going on, I'm just ... sensitive. It's hard to see your kids rejected because of your beliefs, or lack thereof.
ScottR, I don't remember how he got them started, but they have little mats they sit on. We also make them do it when the fight with each other. It works better than sending them to their rooms.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
That made me so sad, Livvie. From my perspective, the "not having the schoolwork" done is an excuse. From time to time, maybe, they would have to require one of the kids to finish up before they played, but not every time your boys are home. Refusing the food boggles my mind. That's what freezers are for, and I took all the heathen spaghetti I could get.
If she really thinks you're too heathen to associtae with she should level with you and then your kids won't have the repeated dissapointments.
Totally OT, but; you mean I don't have the only child who does this?
quote: He has a bit of homework and soon he's shreiking, "I hate my life!" or "I wish I'd never been born."
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Yeah, Robert is quite the dramatist. He even took to saying "I want to kill myself" but we told him that people who say that get sent to hospitals, because it's really, really bad to talk about hurting yourself. He backed off that a bit.
Honestly, I'm sure I could be a better neighbor. I just feel like things are damaged between us, but the only thing that has really changed is their increased knowledge of our religious beliefs. It was better when they thought we were merely backslidden. Now they know it is a choice we made.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
quote:(I offered a dinner, but the church was taking care of them, so they didn't need my heathen speghetti).
You know, in our church ward, they are pretty good about getting meals to a new parent for the first little while. She may genuinely not have needed it since she already had dinners coming in, and she might not have felt comfortable asking for a rain check.
Though in my experience, after having a baby there are certainly times a month later when a dinner from a neighbor would be most welcome.
Other than that, I've dealt with "crazy Christians" a few times myself. My best friend's Mom told me I went to the church of the devil, and while I was allowed to go with my friend to church youth activities, she was not allowed to come along to mine. They would give my mom books and tapes to listen to, and wouldn't accept the same in return. Their group was extremely insular and suspicious of "outsiders", and her mother was extremely controlling. I felt sorry for this friend of mine. Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
quote:Then they stopped even talking to us, because their pastor told them not to "associate with the unsaved".
What an absolutely bizarre thing for a pastor to say. I'm almost speechless. Makes me wonder if the guy actually reads the Bible.
Olivet, that's unfortunate. I'll lay down a buck fifty that at least one of their daughters will get pregnant before she's married. I'd recommend you get them Love and Logic's audio tape called "Helicopters and Drill Sargeants". That should put a bee in their Sunday go-to-meetin' bonnets.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Then they stopped even talking to us, because their pastor told them not to "associate with the unsaved". --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What an absolutely bizarre thing for a pastor to say. I'm almost speechless. Makes me wonder if the guy actually reads the Bible.
Yeah. They were, as I said, pretty extremist. Bordering on "not-actually-associated-with-mainstream-Baptists". Like, they didn't go to any of the five or six local Baptist churches; they drove two hours each way to one that espoused their particular beliefs.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:How to deal with neighbors who think you pray to the Devil
The nasty evil part of me would send the boys over to borrow a cup of chicken blood.
On a more serious note, I feel for you, Olivet, and have no practical advice.
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
I have trouble comprehending this kind of extremism in a positive light. It just goes into the "Intolerance" category, along with things like the KKK. Although perhaps that's me being guilty of intolerance myself, which I try to avoid.
I'm sorry your kids are having to deal with this, Olivet, and you as well.
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: The nasty evil part of me would send the boys over to borrow a cup of chicken blood.
Heehee I would also be extremely tempted to mess with their heads...alas, that probably would not be the best example to set for your kids.
Posted by Shepherd (Member # 7380) on :
To deal with people who think you worship the devil is qute easy.
Walk into their front yard carrying a thoroughly scary looking knife and a dead goat, place the goat on the doorstep, walk three times counterclockwhise around the goat muttering "Barbara Streisand"
They will not trouble you again.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Weeeeell, Ron DID kind of mess with the little girl's head, and I think it may have been the last time she ever came over. She was trying to witness to him. It went something like this:
Girl: Mr. Ron, do you believe in Jesus?
Ron: (using Spanish pronounciation) Yeah, I know Jesus. He used to be my neighbor. He's a roofer.
Girl: No, I mean the Jesus who died--
Ron: Jesus is dead! What happened? Did he fall off a roof? *gets out his cell phone and pretends to dial*
Girl: No, he was the son of God and--
Ron: Hello, Jesus? You alright, man? There's this little girl here who said you died...
And so forth. The girl was beside herself, and I finally put a stop to it. It probably totally traumatized the girl. She really loves Mr. Ron, and I expect she's been in tears before, worried about him going to hell. Ron doesn't think so. Maybe I am over reacting by assuming that.
But maybe not having them over to play is a small price to pay for not having to deal with that kind of thing.
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
Dress them all up in devil costumes on Halloween.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
or as witches...New Age witches.
That scares them even worse. Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
I don't know, when I had this problem with my neighbors, I just stopped praying to the Devil*. Cleared the whole situation right up. Have you tried that, Olivet?
---
* - I still go to Black Mass on Evil Christmas and anti-Easter though. It's more cultural than anything else really.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
What we need is an evangelical liberal christian church that is not afraid to save those mis-saved.
What we need is a evangelical humanist organization, rife with our own chick-like tracts for the not very discerning, and televised crusades for those requiring leadership 24/7.
Liberal agnostic thought has been, "leave these people to their own faith." The fact that their faith requires them to convert us is treated with intolerance, or condecension, or confusion. Why?
Perhaps because we believe that what they believe and how they believe it is wrong. Just as wrong as they believe our beliefs are.
So what do we do about it? In more barbaric times and places, the person with the biggest mob would decide which religion would be practiced by all.
We have taken tolerance to be our cornerstone, tolerating things we believe is wrong.
There has to be a middle ground.
Why don't we try as hard to convert those who disagree with us, as they are trying to convert us? We won't use schools or governments or the public media to do this conversion. Instead we dress in nice clothes and go door to door, handing out free literature.
I know this one church has had great success with that trick.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
Olivet, I'm glad you stopped Ron. That really wasn't very nice.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Might any of this be of use?
“And Isaac went out to meditate in the field at the eventide” – Genesis 24:63
“This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night” -- Joshua 1:8
“But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.” Psalm 1:2
“When I remember thee upon my bed, and meditate on thee in the night watches.” – Psalm 63:6
“I will meditate also of all thy work, and talk of thy doings.” – Psalm 77:12
“I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.” – Psalm 119:15
“Princes also did sit and speak against me: but thy servant did meditate in thy statutes.” – Psalm 119:23
“My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved; and I will meditate in thy statutes.” – Psalm 119:48
“Let the proud be ashamed; for they dealt perversely with me without a cause: [but] I will meditate in thy precepts.” – Psalm 119:78
“Mine eyes prevent the night watches, that I might meditate in thy word.” – Psalm 119:148
“I remember the days of old; I meditate on all thy works; I muse on the work of thy hands.” – Psalm 143:5
“Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.” – 1 Timothy 4:15
All references are from the King James Version.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Yeah, I was thinking that myself. I mean, how old is she? Doing that to an adult--funny. To a child--tasteless.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
Actually, I'm not wishing it on her at all. I'm making a comment on the parenting technique that involves total bubblewrapping of the child. That audio tape I recommended punches holes in the theory that if you totally protect a child (either by rescuing them or dominating them) you are being a good parent.
How much do you want to bet that their view of sex education is going to be limited to "wait until you get married or Very Bad Things May Happen"?
edited for clarity
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Wait, wait.
This wouldn't be so hard for me if they were jerks. They aren't jerks. I know they have come to look upon us either as a bad influence or a ... sort of Sunday School project.
But the truth is that they are good people and I DON'T want to antagonize them or alienate them.
The bottom line is that I'm hurting, and not sure how to protect my children and myself from further heartache. I'm pretty sure I can't.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
They are good people who are acting like jerks in the fashions and at the times you have listed. We all act like jerks from time to time.
I'm afraid that you are probably right. You can't like someone and be protected from being hurt by them, because liking someone ipso facto means you are vulnerable to being hurt by them. I definitely know that the depth with which I have hurt people is in direct proportion to how much they care about me.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Does that mean that I don't care about you, or that you just haven't gotten around to hurting me yet? Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
quote:Girl: Mr. Ron, do you believe in Jesus?
Ron: (using Spanish pronounciation) Yeah, I know Jesus. He used to be my neighbor. He's a roofer.
Girl: No, I mean the Jesus who died--
Ron: Jesus is dead! What happened? Did he fall off a roof? *gets out his cell phone and pretends to dial*
Girl: No, he was the son of God and--
Ron: Hello, Jesus? You alright, man? There's this little girl here who said you died...
Mr. Ron is a hero.
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
A very sweet thing to say KQ, but yes, basically you haven't spent enough time with me to really give me the opportunity to be offensive yet Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
To be honest, Ron was always teasing the kids (theirs and ours) by being silly and making up silly stories about the Tooth Beaver, and how kids have tails or some crap like that. I don't think he realized she was being serious, because she was also laughing at him at while he was joking around.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I hated it when adults refused to be straight with me when I was a little kid. I could usually tell that they were making stuff up, but I simply didn't have a broad enough base of information to be able to tell what was true and what was a lie. I remember that I had an uncle who tried to convince me that I could turn on the TV and change channels by touching a statuette that they had on an endtable. I knew he was lying to me, but I couldn't figure out how he was changing the channel (tv remotes weren't common at that point, and I'd never seen one). He insisted that it was the statuette, kept on with this for quite a while, and never did tell me the truth about it. I quite literally hated him for that.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Olivet – Talk to them directly. Tell them that their daughter told your son he was “praying to the devil,” and that you were hurt by that. Point out that just because you don’t share their specific beliefs does not make you devil worshippers and that you would appreciate them clarifying that with their child. If they bring up meditation, refer to the list I posted earlier.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Wow. That sounds so incredibly... sensible.
Sounds like you'd get good results going that way, Olivet.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
LOL Yes, yes it does. I'm a big chicken, but that is what I need to do.
DKW: Thanks for being the voice of reasonableness. Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Olivet, dkw's got the right idea. If they really aren't jerks and are just nice people who've gotten a bet over zealous, then talking with them should smooth things out. I'd tell them that you understand that their tracting you etc. is our of concern for your souls and that you have appreciated that concern even though you don't agree with their religious views. Then tell them that recently they and their children have gone to far and that what they are doing is hurting your children.
If they really aren't jerks, I suspect that they will listen and then try harder to be non-judgemental of your family.
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
These neighbors are being like the Pharisees. I know that there are people like this in most fundamental churches, but the crazy thing is that they get made fun of even by the other fundamentalists. They are truly the weaker brother. It’s such a shame that they aren’t more open and friendly. One of the reasons I don’t like labels. I go to a fundamental Baptist church, but know that almost all of our members would disagree with your neighbor’s behavior. Sorry that your children are going through this.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I reckon being direct would work, but the problem is not much can be done if this is what they believe... But it sort of... bothers me as that doesn't fit my concept of Christianity, but then again, I am not that conservative. I have relatives sort of like that. They see the Devil in EVERYTHING and are SDA instead of Baptist.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
Okay, that link scared me, but not in the way, I think, that it was suposed to. I really have abslutly no problem telling people that they are being stupid and narrow-minded, but it looks like you do, so no advice there.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Pelegius, if you're talking about the Chick Tract links, I understand how you feel. I was specifically disturbed by the first one, which so brazenly rejects the idea that "good people go to heaven, while bad people go to hell" in favor of "WE go to heaven and YOU go to hell". Salvation by allegiance has never sat right with my conscience ...
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
I want to learn how to meditate.
That is all. Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I will be teaching a session on mediatation at church this fall.
But you're kind of far away.
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
Puppy I like you point but…….. (Not to throw everything off track here and I apologize if this offends anyone. I truly don’t mean for it to) What about the thief on the cross?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Jay, what does that have to do with anything? That wasn't salvation by allegiance, that was redemption by belief.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
That one track with the girl named Buffy who's mom loves to watch all those "vampire shows". Hmmmm. Do you think Jack was eluding to something?
I was amused how in the Buffyverse no self-respecting creature of the night would go out on Halloween. It's a day for posers.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote:I hated it when adults refused to be straight with me when I was a little kid.
Me. too.
And I still dislike it, because people still do it. I guess I look like I need to have jokes made about what I say .
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Yeah--I hear ya, Noemon and Teshi. My parents were always straight with us, never even used sarcasm. So when I encountered adults that thought that was the fun way to relate to children, they had me so confused I didn't know which way was up. I tended to avoid those grown-ups, because they made me uncomfortable.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
I'm a big fan of the straight-face.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
My dad thinks sarcasm is the best way to develop critical thinking in a child.
It's true that neither of us has any problem with critical thinking...
Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
First, Meditation is awesome. I learned most of what I know from my Karate Sensei who is also LDS, and he had even themed most of the studying around LDS doctrine. This was cool, and I think I should have stuck to it, but it was during a time that well, I wasn't that interested in any doctrine but what I wanted to think about.
Talk directly to them about it. Then try to understand them, even if they won't try to understand you. You apparently have more background in common with them than I. You may be able to connect with them on that sort of a level. Overall, be you and have your children be themselves. No one is perfect, most everyone is trying to be somewhat better.
Things like this are sad, children need relationships. It's really sad to me that people won't get along with each other because they aren't exactly the same. Not that I'm a perfect example of this, but I try to get along with most people.
It's better to teach your kids how to handle and understand the situation before they are gone from the nest, rather than force them to not do things they want to, only to later have to relearn what you tried to force down them.
Good luck, Olivet.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Tract.
That is all.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Well, I hate it when Ron tries to pull a fast one on me, but I know his "tell". He cannot lie to me - he just can't.
What bothers me is that he sometimes doesn't set the record straight afterward, because he knows I will. I tell him, "Your children don't believe a word you say" and he thinks it's funny. But he does tell the absolute best beddtime stories ever.
The kids will ask me about anything Dad says that they deem questionable, because they know I won't lie to them. They hear me groan when he tells a big one. Like the time he told them about the 'Jesus Christ Lizard' who walks on water. There was silence, and then Robert said, "Mom?"
I told him that one was pretty much true, though the lizard in question really ran on water, and was more often called by other names.
About meditation... I find it difficult to empty my mind, so I sympathize with Robert. I find a sort of 'moving meditation' easier. I did tell Robert he could use his meditation time to pray, if he'd rather do that. I find prayer (the way I learned the concept of 'praying in the Spirit' as opposed to 'praying with understanding') to be very similar in effect to meditation. Though I admit I'm more than a little fuzzy on exactly who or what I'm praying to, I suppose we all have our different mental images of God.
Jay... I believe these people are doing their best to raise their family according their beliefs. They are not bad people. They went up in my estimation recently when they left the Baptist Megachurch ( http://www.fbcw.org/ ) which has plenty of busses to take people from the distant reaches of their extended parkinglot, but never seemed to spare one for a route to pick up people in the poorer neighborhoods, to a much smaller church where the pastor is dedicated to helping the poor and 'unchurched'.
I am the first to admit that a lot of exposure to my husband can lead one to question one's beliefs (wooboy!) so I'm not surprised that they would want to limit their kid's exposure to him. I bet they went home once with the story of "Jesus Claus" , and flames shot out their parents' ears.
Ron is playful, but he is also not as respectful of other people's sacred cows as I am.
So I don't think they are bad people. They've never used Chick Tracts, and I believe they are fairly mainstream. I like them. But I don't like them, too. Mostly because they make feel like I'm a bad parent, when I am really doing my best. (Liam got a note sent home yesterday for spelling A S S over and over while waiting in line. I know he picked this up from his older brother, who knows he's not supposed to use certain words he has recently learned, but will spell them just to see how close he can get to the line without going over. So I'm thinking we may have to move our line...).
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: Tract.
That is all.
Not nice to make me spew chai all over my new computer! Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Speaking of A S S, when I was in third grade, we had to choose and define a word from the dictionary for each letter of the alphabet.
Guess what word was mine? Posted by raventh1 (Member # 3750) on :
Hehe, Smart kids are awesome.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Olivet, I think the best thing that you can do is speak kindly to these people. Let them know that you're normal people, just like them. You just have different beliefs. I wasn't around a lot of non-Christians when I was younger, and it was good later in life to be exposed to perfectly nice people of other faiths, or no faith. Anyhow, maybe your neighbors will realize that you're not that scary. Also, have you tried turning their attempts to convert you into a two-way discussion about your beliefs and theirs?
Dan, good idea. Someone needs to come preach a message like that on my campus to balance out the fundamentalist wacko preachers.
As an as(s)ide, when I was in high school geometry, we had triangle congruency postulates. They were things like, "If all three sides are equal, then the triangles are congruent." We abbreviated postulates like this as SSS. Well, the teacher mentioned this "side-side-angle" postulate (doesn't actually exist). And he said that all the teachers call it side-side-angle (he writes SSA on the board), but for some reason, students prefer angle-side-side (he writes the appropriate acroynm).
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Got another note about Liam today, and I realized his problem is, in part, that they have had a substitute. Also, he was home Friday because he had a fever.
Today, he kicked the wall when the teacher didn't pick him for something. *facepalm*
Maybe it really IS my fault he's having trouble. We let the meditation slide over the long weekend, too. That will be the next thing we do (we had a talk about the stuff yesterday, but I think trhe part of himself he's having trouble with isn't the rational part). Oy
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Olivia, are they allowed to "time themselves out" at his school? Something that really used to help my brother was being allowed to go to a corner for five minutes and calm down.
Posted by Ophelia (Member # 653) on :
To the best of our knowledge, Liam would never go to a corner of his own accord.
--Lindsay and Ben
(It's just not in his personality. I realize that in print, it looks like we're saying Liam's a bad kid. He isn't. We adore Liam. We just can't see him sending himself to a corner. )
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
Ophelia, my daughter would never have the self prepossession to send herself to a corner. She'd much rather find out what was going to happen while she was out of control than take herself off and pull herself together. It's not naughtiness, though she certainly has that in her too, it's just a different way of looking at the world. Most of her is losing it, but part of her (I think) is wondering what is going to happen. A little emotional breakdown mixed with social experimentation. That's just her.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
It's not "sending yourself to a corner" so much as taking time to go get our agression out another way. My brother had a notebook he would draw and write angry things in and rip up if he felt like it while off in his corner-- not distracting the other kids, but getting his agression out safely.
Of course, if it got past a certain point or he was just in the mood, he would want the attention.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
My 8-year-old's class also does the "self-time" thing. When Missy gets close to the point where she's going to "hit the wall" and start an episode, one of the teachers suggests that she go to the "quiet space", which is a sort of niche they've made in a corner of the class with bookshelves, gym pads and beanbags on the floor, and she can play with the few toys or read (or attempt to read) a book until she regains control. Lately, she's become periodically aware enough of where the "wall" is and how close she is to the breaking point that she's able to ask for a quiet time herself before adult intervention is required.
Posted by King's Man (Member # 8147) on :
Olivet, I would like to appologize for there behavior. I'm a Baptist myself and that is not the way we are supposed to act. I hope you know however, that their actions are out of love, at least in their minds. On a lighter note, "meditation is prayer to the devil?!" Thats got to be about the funniest thing I've heard all day. Out of curiosity, what is your family practicing religon-wise. You don't have to say, I was just wondering.
Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
I think you might think of it this way.
You might try being radically honest with, say, the woman (whom I think you sound a little closer to?) -- telling her what you've told us, about you, and about your feelings. The advantage is that you get to be free, in doing it; and if there's a chance of real friendship, that would be needed; and your kids might get to be friends with their kids.
Or you might decide to put up a wall of "nice." The advantage would be less risk. After all, the radical honesty approach might not work. They might decide it just shows how pagan you are, or something.
But to me, those are the two main options: talk about it with them, or don't. If you do, I don't know how they'll react. But I'd imagine it's more about you feeling like you're doing what's right, rather than what they do, at this point -- at least, it would be for me.
...
"Ass": I remember that a girl in our Sunday School was VERY surprised to hear that Mary rode to Bethlehem on hers. I don't know if that's because it was a naughty word, or because, well, what else would she ride on?
Posted by bunbun (Member # 6814) on :
quote: But the truth is that they are good people and I DON'T want to antagonize them or alienate them.
Olivet, I applaud the care you are taking with this situation, and I agree with dkw's advice re: confronting the parents with what the little girl said about meditation. Ultimately, if they continue to avoid your family, it's thier decision. I would hate to think you are beating yourself up for something you can't help. I would support you in being honest with them, and then leaving the proverbial ball in thier court.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
When you do talk to the parents I'd have something prepared with Ron ahead of time for whatever they might say about Ron's behavior.
Knowing my own uber conservative fundamentalist parents, their problem wouldn't have been as much with what the kids say to each other, as what an adult "authority" figure (because in that world all adults are authority figures) says to their kids.
If Ron isn't willing to tone it down at all, I suspect you'll need to write off the "good neighbor" thing as a possiblility.
AJ
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
quote: I know that there are people like this in most fundamental churches, but the crazy thing is that they get made fun of even by the other fundamentalists. They are truly the weaker brother.
I was thinking about this and similar sentiments brought up and it reminded me of something. It took me until lunch today to think of what it was.
This is exactly what most muslims say when terrorists are discussed (except you change the word churches to mosques).
We then criticize them for not doing something about the bad apples in their fold.
Is something being done about the bad apples in our fold? Besides making fun of them, is there a concerted effort to reach them, to try and evangelize them with what most of us would say is a more true Christian belief system?
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
I so got dragged to that church once by a boy trying to convert me!
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
The neighbors gave us ticketsto their Christmas play one year. They even babysat.
We left at intermission because I was having my usual church-induced panic attack, and went by Burger King and bough a complete set of LotR:FotR toys.
We picked up the boys, and thanked them. They asked us what we thought, and we mentioned scanning the corus for their daughter, and that it was very enjoyable.
"I thought it was a great presentation of the Gospell" said Mr. Neighbor, with a pointed look. I nodded and smiled, because the 'gospel' portion of the play must have been after the intermission. >_<
But I got my LotR centerpiece! Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
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Thanks for being the voice of reasonableness. ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
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