Anyway, if your religion happens to be wrong, theists, or if your non-belief is a big faux-pas, atheists, what do you plan to say to the big guy from the flames of your torment?
I rather like, "Hell, it's a lot better than singing your praises for all eternity!"
Alternatively, if my soul just gets snuffed out or falls into the oblivion of outer darkness, I will probably say, " ." Heh.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
To me this is like asking "What will you say if you're kidnapped by some sociopathic sadist who wants to boil you alive in racoon oil?"
I'd probably say "EEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAGH!"
However, if I do get a moment of lucidity from my torment I'd probably ask him to point out specifically why he felt I was unworthy of the promptings of his spirit while I had a chance to do something about it.
But this is, for me, a merely academic exercise. I don't discount the possibility of an afterlife of some sort, however, I totally discount the idea of any God-imposed suffering.
Posted by Unmaker (Member # 1641) on :
So do I. We could both be wrong.
I don't think I'd be asking a lot of questions. More like shouting really pointed critiques of his wondrous plan.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
See, I wouldn't bother. If that's the state I find myself in, really, then what could I possible accomplish by screaming epithets. If he's not listening, then it's completely pointless. If he is, then why make things worse? Just like in the case of the earthly sociopath, if I can't win him over with my own mortal charms, then I'd be best served to try and understand his sociopathic ways at least until I found a way to escape.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I honestly think I'd be too sad to scream much defiance. I'd be really, really disappointed in the Creator of the Universe, and that emotion -- coupled with my own perception of my plight -- is more likely to create ennui than angst.
Posted by Unmaker (Member # 1641) on :
I like that... ennui in the flames of Hell. Could be a poem in there, somewhere, Tom.
Posted by Jacare Sorridente (Member # 1906) on :
I would forego the dubious pleasure of shouting anything angry and defiant and instead see what I could do about installing AC and a flame resistant suit of some sort.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
The fun thing about humans is that we're adaptive. I figure that after a few ticks of eternity, I'd be pretty innured to the pains of Hell and it would be time for some Morlock-Eloi action on the soft pink unthinking beasts in heaven.
[ December 07, 2005, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: MrSquicky ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
>> I figure that after a few ticks of eternity, I'd be pretty innured to the pains of Hell and it would time for some Morlock-Eloi action on the soft pink unthinking beasts in heaven.<<
I think a God that'd be intent on punishing you for eternity would probably take innurement into account, and take steps to make sure the pain deepens over time.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
I don't think he's got the grapes.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
Grapes? Nope-- he trod upon them, made some wine.
Now watermelons is a completely different story.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
I would be screaming, "God help me! Because obviously whoever put me here is not You!"
I am quite stubborn in my beliefs.
Posted by Amilia (Member # 8912) on :
Woops.
Posted by Unmaker (Member # 1641) on :
Oh, I get it. You would say, "Woops."
That's pretty funny.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: Grapes? Nope-- he trod upon them, made some wine.
Now watermelons is a completely different story.
OMG, I can't believe Hatrack has devolved into repartee about the size of God's cojones. Posted by ifmyheartcouldbeat (Member # 8692) on :
in the words of charlie brown "Good Grief"
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I think I'd probably be too busy screaming in agony to do much of anything coherent.
Posted by smitty (Member # 8855) on :
I'm hoping it's not an issue I'll have to worry about
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
@ Karl! *wipes tears*
Posted by smitty (Member # 8855) on :
I mean geez, talk about planning ahead!
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
>>OMG, I can't believe Hatrack has devolved into repartee about the size of God's cojones.<<
This seems to be that kind of week-- last night in the van, I was talking to Mrs. R about the paintings of Jesus that make him look like a girl, and Junebug started in on all the things he could do to look better as a girl: Shave, wear lipstick. . . sequins.
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
I'm reasonably sure that any sort of coherency I had would be reserved for pleading for forgiveness and promising to do anything if the (literally) soul-destroying pain would stop. Considering that's what happens to torture victims, I don't see how Hell would be that much different.
Posted by Unmaker (Member # 1641) on :
I like to think I would still have the cojones to thumb my nose at my torturer.
Posted by Rico (Member # 7533) on :
I think I lead a decent life and I try to be a good human being... I just don't happen to side with any religion or even God's existence at the moment. I'd like to believe that if I lead a good life and do my best to improve as a person, if there is a God out there, I'd hope he/she/it would understand my point of view and not condemn me for not following the right faith (or no faith at all).
So I guess if I did get sent to hell, I'd just laugh and say it's not real because I don't believe in it
Or if that doesn't work I'd just give him the finger. Can't get much worse than it already is, might as well show how I feel about it!
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
I can't even imagine it. Literally, I can't imagine a God that would be that vindictive as to punish people who had really not understood, but had done their best.
I have always said though, that I'd rather live as a believer and be wrong, than live as an unbeliever and be wrong; for in the first instance, the only consequence would be ceasing to exist and I wouldn't even be aware of it; whereas in the second instance, I'd be fully aware of any unpleasant consequences.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote: This seems to be that kind of week-- last night in the van, I was talking to Mrs. R about the paintings of Jesus that make him look like a girl, and Junebug started in on all the things he could do to look better as a girl: Shave, wear lipstick. . . sequins.
*laughing aloud, ending in a guilty snort
Posted by Omega M. (Member # 7924) on :
quote:Originally posted by JennaDean:
I have always said though, that I'd rather live as a believer and be wrong, than live as an unbeliever and be wrong; for in the first instance, the only consequence would be ceasing to exist and I wouldn't even be aware of it; whereas in the second instance, I'd be fully aware of any unpleasant consequences.
quote:We have nothing to add to the textbook response. Believing in God X may itself damn you if God Y happens to be the Truth -- and vice versa. It's easy to find pairs (X, Y) that satisfy this condition. Therefore, have a sandwich.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
I would much rather live as a believer and be wrong than live as an unbeliever and be right .
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
Which means that the truth of God's existence is irrelevant to you. If you admit that, I admire and respect you. You know you need your beliefs, but you recognize they could be wrong.
Or maybe not. Maybe it was just a clever quip.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
I honestly do not understand that position.
I have no desire to be deceived, or to deceive myself, even "for my own good." I believe what I believe because I believe it to be true, not because I prefer it or because it has the least repugnant consequences if I'm wrong.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Do not for a minute think that I believe any less fervently because I know my faith is a choice. It is one that I pray that I will continue to choose even in the face of "evidence" to the contrary.
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
Well, there's some merit in being skeptical, so I have no problem with maintaining faith in the face of "evidence", but I do tend to worry about people who maintain a belief that is contrary to the evidence.
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
No, I understand that you believe fervently. I'm just making sure that you're saying what I hope you're saying, which is that you admit to the *possibility* of God's not existing, but you choose to believe because of the meaning it provides your life. I can respect that, as I've said.
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
Well, of course "I believe what I believe because I believe it to be true." I really do. But I have also thought about the possibility that it may not be true. I decided that I'm happier living as if it were true, so even in my rare moments of doubt I've decided to just believe it. (Unless I have found something else more truthful to believe; that changes everything. But I won't give up my beliefs just because of doubt. I'd have to have something compelling to change to.) I guess that all adds up to, "I know I need my beliefs". It's more than just that, but it does include that.
I think I'll have roast beef with lettuce and tomato, thanks. Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
I was responding to dkw more than to David. David, I think I am saying what you think I am saying.
It seems that JennaDean and I are pretty close (on this). With mustard, please.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
KarlEd,
Well there is evidence and there is evidence. Senses can be deceived. I hope that I would pay attention to the Holy Spirit rather than my eyes and ears.
Aren't you glad my faith is pretty benevolent? All I absolutely know for sure is that God loves me and wants me to love other people. I would hope to keep knowing that much no matter what.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
dkw,
Let me try a different explanation:
If God were, in reality, a vengeful, evil, mean, tyrant, I would not choose to believe it or to worship that god.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
I don't think I'd be insulting God or yelling obscenities at him. Instead I'd be thanking him. Cause I mean, if I'm sent to hell, then the other people sent to hell are probably more my type of people than those in heaven. So I'll sit back and enjoy myself. Pain can be ignored, pushed back to the back of your mind. Especially when you realize that if your already dead then pain litterally means NOTHING, cause its a warning of damage to your body that could possibly lead to death.
So long story short, if I got sent to hell I'd just treat it as a new environment and keep on living. Maybe I'd try to take it over. I mean I'm already dead... already in meaningless pain. So what harm is there in waging war on the devil. Sure maybe he can't be killed... but at that point, neither could I Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
quote:I'd be pretty innured to the pains of Hell and it would be time for some Morlock-Eloi action on the soft pink unthinking beasts in heaven.
I totally read that as "it would be time for some Morlock-Eloi action on the soft pink unthinking breasts in heaven."
It seemed to be a bit over the top though.
Posted by foundling (Member # 6348) on :
Man, I'd be pissed. I've never believed in hell, even when I used to believe in god, because it made no sense to me. Of course, I didnt believe in heaven, either. But, if I ended up in hell, you can bet I'd be shaking a certain finger at the suit that put me there. I do love fire, though. It'd be kind of cool to live in a lake of it. Think of all the pretty things you could do with the raw material around you. Yeah. I'd become the ULTIMATE fire dancer, and put on shows for beelzebub and his ilk. Hell could get to be pretty cool. After all, you're already there. I bet there are some pretty hot guys hanging around, and well, hell, what have you got to lose? Yeah, I'm starting to like this idea. Maybe I'll become a catholic, and see what happens.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: dkw,
Let me try a different explanation:
If God were, in reality, a vengeful, evil, mean, tyrant, I would not choose to believe it or to worship that god.
I would hope not, but what does that have to do with what I said?
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
My oroginal comment:
quote: I would much rather live as a believer and be wrong than live as an unbeliever and be right .
Your response:
quote: I honestly do not understand that position.
I have no desire to be deceived, or to deceive myself, even "for my own good." I believe what I believe because I believe it to be true, not because I prefer it or because it has the least repugnant consequences if I'm wrong.
In either of the two hypothetical cases I stated, God is either un-loving or non-existant. Even if I were to discover upon my death that that were true, I would be glad that I had lived as one who believed in a loving God. That I at least tried to act accordingly.
I'm sorry I'm not managing to make this clearer.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Ah, I get it. You're talking about the nature of God. I read your post as being about the existence of God.
Yes, I'd rather follow a loving God and be wrong than an evil God and be right. But if there truly is no God, I'd rather know that than follow an imaginary good God.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
Absolutely about the nature. But, I think also about the existence. My understanding of the nature of God is such that to believe that there is no God is very close to believing that there is no good in the world. I think I would still choose to believe that there is a source of good and that we can somehow connect to it.
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@ Karl! *wipes tears*
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I mean geez, talk about planning ahead!
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