Here's my main concern (I think I'm more concerned about this than even *if* I'll be able to get a full supply back) - what's the best thing to do if Space Space Baby goes back to his old tricks? When I bf him before, he constantly slept at the breast (despite skin-to-skin, cold washcloths, etc). Also, when we began supplementation, SSB did great for awhile taking a bottle after a nursing session, but then refused the bottles - I thought that was great, but that was the week he ended up losing 6 oz. Is there anything I can do to keep him from "shutting down" after a nursing session so that he'll take supplementation until I have a full supply? Thanks so much!
space opera
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
My mom wants to know if SSB has had a neurological workup. If that's fine, she wants to know if he's had a swallow study and seen an OT.
Other than that, she recommends tickling the soles of the feet and palms of the hands, as well as rubbing up and down the back-- to stimulate the reticular activating system (or something like that.)
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
She also wants to know if he's seen a metabolic specialist as well as a geneticist.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
First off, good luck, and good for you!
I absolutely respected (and still do) your decision to wean. You certainly have to do what is best for your family.
But as someone who really enjoyed nursing my kids, I was also kinda sad about it. There is something about the nursing experience that just cannot be duplicated -- although surely with effort one can come close.
I'll leave the expert advice up to Ela. But I'll offer a couple of non-expert suggestions, from someone who had a "gourmet" nurser. (You know, a baby who seems to be thinking, "Hmm. What is that taste?" and takes forever to nurse, tiny sip by tiny sip.)
Make sure the baby isn't given any excuse to fall asleep -- strip down to the diaper, be sure the room is not too warm, tickle the feet and/or cheek every so often. (And if you have someone around like my mom, whose hands are naturally FREEZING, let them hold the baby just before nursing time.)
You might also want to try supplementing with a lactation aid, although Ela would know much more about that than I.
(That video -- complete with delicious baby nursing noises -- is giving me let-down tingles, and I haven't nursed in over four years! *laugh*)
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
How old is he now? He's probably much more awake than when you were first breastfeeding - the problem of falling asleep only lasted for about 4-6 weeks with my first son. Also he's probably much more responsive to stimulation than in those first few days/weeks, so your attempts at keeping him awake will hopefully work better. And hopefully, if he's used to having a full tummy now, he's learned not to "shut down" until he gets full. Of course if he's full, you can't make him eat more.
Good luck! (We've got eating problems with our 3-year-old now - too bad I can't go back to breastfeeding him, it's the only time he gained weight! )
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
kq, SSB hasn't seen any specialists, but had a complete work-up in the hospital...as in so complete that the guy drawing blood said he'd never even heard of some of the metabolic things they were testing for! I am thinking about taking him to a speech/language person though - I've heard they can assess sucking pretty well. SSB is a super "gourmet", to use Rivka's phrase; in the beginning it would take him about 45 minutes or more to finish a 4 oz. bottle - now we're at around 30-40 for a 6 oz. bottle (yep - he eats that much!) When we began bottlefeeding we found out that we have to use Avent nipples - we tried the Playtex Airflow ones and SSB had too hard of a time - he basically wanted the milk to just pour into him.
Like Jenna said, I'm really really really hoping that since he's bigger now he'll be a better nurser.
Rivka, you are so right about the nursing experience. We "bottle nurse," but it's not the same.
I'm very hopeful that I can get my milk supply back. SSB latched on this morning and suckled for 10 minutes, and each time I've pumped today I'm seeing milk drops right away. I'm taking some capsules with fenugreek, etc. in them as well. Even if it doesn't work out, I'm hoping that this last all-or-nothing try can either give me a successful nursing relationship or a bit more peace with weaning. Thanks, all!
space opera
edit: Jenna, SSB is 2 and 1/2 months old.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Beer -- not a lot, obviously -- is supposed to be good for increasing supply too.
No idea if it works. I can't stand the taste.
And "gourmet" is actually my mom's term. But it's so apropos! Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:I am thinking about taking him to a speech/language person though - I've heard they can assess sucking pretty well.
Good plan. This
quote:When we began bottlefeeding we found out that we have to use Avent nipples - we tried the Playtex Airflow ones and SSB had too hard of a time - he basically wanted the milk to just pour into him.
sounds to me as if a suck/swallow eval is still a good idea. Find either a speech pathologist, feeding specialist, PT, or OT who specializes in infants, if you can. (Ask for a referral from the local craniofacial clinic, they work with cleft palates and will probably know the best person to go to for this.) Get a suck/swallow evaluation done and see if they recommend some tricks based on the way he wants to eat that can help him be a happier little eater.
I'll ask my mom if she knows any tricks in the mean time-- she works craniofacial and is an OT as well as an RN, and when the regular OTs can't get a baby to eat, she's the one they call in on it.
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
About the beer - I have a friend who swears by Brewer's Yeast. Said she started taking it when she had milk-supply problems with one of her kids, and now uses it all the time, and it has really helped her production. I wonder if that's the component in beer that helps? It might be a little better for you while nursing than just beer!?
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
You might also want to try blessed thistle and fennel. I was on Reglan to promote lactation and it quadrupled my production without any side effects.
Definitely have a speech pathologist take a look at SSB. That's who evaluated the babies for feeding in the NICU and PCN, but I imagine there wasn't one in the PICU.
If he has problems with sucking, you might want to try a nipple shield. You can get them at Babies R Us - they're made by Medela.
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
I just saw this thread. I have been sick in bed and my online time has been limited, but JaneX mentioned it to me.
I am happy to hear that you are re-lactating, and hope it goes well for you. Whatever breastmilk that your baby receives will be a benefit for him.
How are things going for you so far, SO? Is the baby taking the breast readily and sucking well? And how old is the baby now? (I've lost track. )
Using a Lact-Aid or SNS (stands for Supplemental Nursing System) will help you to increase your milk faster while building up your milk supply. That is because the baby receives the formula supplement while sucking on your breast, thus stimulating your breasts to produce more milk. As you produce more milk, you gradually decrease the amount of supplementation. You should enlist the aid of a La Leche League Leader or an International Board Certified Lactation Consultant (IBCLC) if you wish to try one of these devices. A LLL Leader can direct you to a competent Lactation Consultant in your area.
As far as keeping the baby awake, skin-to-skin contact is stimulating to the baby and helps keep baby awake longer. Dimming the light in the room a little will keep baby from closing his eyes against the bright lights (you don't want it dark, though, just not bright). Talk to the baby while you are feeding him, encouraging him to stay awake.
I don't recommend stroking a baby's check while nursing or bottle-feeding - even though he has probably lost the rooting reflex by now, it can be confusing to the baby.
When the baby is on the breast, make sure the baby's mouth is covering as large an area of the breast as he can take into his mouth (his nose and chin should be lightly touching the breast). Watch him to make sure he is actively sucking, not falling asleep on the breast, and listen (and watch his throat) to see if he is actively swallowing. Keep an eye on the baby's diapers - as your milk returns, his poops should revert to mustard-colored liquid-y breastfed poops, as opposed to the more solid, darker-colored poops of a formula-fed baby.
If you continue following the routine of giving the breast, followed by a bottle-feeding, please note the following: You can stimulate a bottle-fed baby to continue sucking by twisting the nipple a little in his mouth when he stops sucking to remind him it is there.
It used to be thought that beer increased milk supply, but that has been disproved. Fenugreek is known to increase milk supply, and herbal tea companies produce teas containing that herb. (One is known as "Mother's Milk" tea.)
Please try to find local support, as this can help encourage you and provide a resource for problems, questions and/or frustrations. La Leche League Leaders and LLL Groups can help with this - sometimes it helps to contact more than one Leader or Group, as different Leaders have different levels of experience and different approaches to problems and questions. Some Lactation Consultants also run support groups.
Hope the information I have given helps. Let me know if you have other questions, and I will try to help as best as I can. Feel free to email me privately, also.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I hope it goes well. When I had supply problems I drank fenugreek tea- like I drank it instead of water- and my supply was up in 24 hours. Good luck!
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Well, it's not going as well as I'd hoped. Space Space Baby shut down after I offered him the breast today. I was very low-key and took him off as soon as he expressed frustration - he was latched on for about a minute total. I had given him about an ounce beforehand to take the edge of his hunger off, and after being offered the breast he only went on to finish half of his normal feeding. The rest of the day he was off and had trouble sleeping.
We've noticed that as long as we keep to a very strict routine with SSB he's a dream baby. Not a routine as in going by the clock, but as in things in the same order. His is: diaper change/eat/play/diaper change/sleep. *He* is strict about this - last week Mr. Opera decided to feed him before changing him, and SSB refused to eat until after he'd been changed. If we run our days by the routine, SSB is incredibly happy and cries less than five minutes a day. It took about 2 weeks after he began receiving formula exclusively for us to figure this out - he was putting on weight but still wasn't sleeping well. It doesn't matter how he spends his "play" time - he's content watching me do housework or being held and cuddled. He likes to be put to sleep by either rocking or being carried in the sling, and will drift off within 10 minutes and stay asleep once he's put down.
...but if the routine is changed, he has a lot of trouble. He's not as content when awake, difficult to get to sleep, and doesn't stay asleep once he's put down. My in-laws visited, and of course they wanted to hold him and put him to sleep. During their visit he slept poorly (as in almost no napping during the day, drifting off then waking up minutes later) and it took two days of his regular routine to get him back on track. I told Mr. Opera that it looked like from now on we should do all the feeding and rocking to sleep as someone else doing it was a bit too stimulating.
So, it looks like offering the breast is enough of a change in his routine to upset him. After I offered it, he didn't sleep longer than 30 minutes at a time (until he fell asleep at 10:30 tonight - about 10 hours after I offered nursing). Normally he naps an hour in the morning, 2 and 1/2 - 3 in the afternoon, and an hour in the evening.
I'm not sure what to do at this point. I haven't offered the breast again but have been pumping and am continuing to take the herbal supplement. I want to nurse him very badly, but is it wise to take a happy, healthy baby and change what he's obviously happy with? I'm really at a loss here.
Ela, thank you so much for the advice and information. I have a call in to an LC (recommended by the LC that worked with me previously) who is experienced with relactation and am waiting to hear back. Those articles that you linked to were great.
Gah - this is way long, sorry.
space opera
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Space Opera, good luck, whatever you decide to do. You have to do what works best for you and your baby. The LC may have some helpful tips for you, and I think it will help you to work firsthand with someone who can see how you and your baby are interacting.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
SO, my mom now strongly recommends an OT. She thinks SSB may have some of the same sensory integration issues that my brother did, as well as needing a suck/swallow eval.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Thanks, Ela. I really do appreciate your help. I'll let you know what the LC has to say once I hear from her/see her. I hope you're feeling better, by the way!
kq - I'm only vaguely familiar with sensory integration issues. Could you (and your momma! ) give me some more info or links?
space opera
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
SO, I have some myself! They run in the family. I'd be happy to explain as much as I can.
Sensory integration is the way the brain processes the input from the outside world. Some of us have brains that just don't process it quite the same as most people. For us, changes in routine, noise, light, even the clothes we wear can be upsetting, sometimes to the point of physical pain. We have different issues and different things soothe us-- some of us like a small, dark, enclosed space. Some like gentle pressure on our shoulders. Some need to have a calm, quiet place where we can focus on one thing to help us block the rest of it out. My brother had problems to the point where, when he got new clothes, all the tags had to be removed. Then they had to be washed several times and sit on his dresser for about a week. He would then touch them every time he went by, getting used to the feel of the new fabric. It usually took 5 days to two weeks for him to get comfortable enough with his new clothes to wear them. As a baby, everything upset him, including the feel of my mom's clothes when she held him. She ended up placing him on a pillow with a very soft case when she carried or held him for the first few months, which provided a soft, comfortingly familiar experience every time. (I remember holding him on the pillow.) He had sessions with an OT from the time he was 4 until he was about 9, partly for his disgraphia, but partly sensory integration therapy. SI therapy mostly consists of desensitization, exposing the child to new experiences slowly and in a safe environment through play. My second cousin has also had to go through this-- he is so sensitive that they have to buy special seamless socks and underwear for him. We who have these issues often get very upset, like I said, sometimes to the point of sensory input registering as physical pain, in situations where there are a lot of noise, commotion, or people, any time our routine is disrupted, or when we have a new experience/meet new people. This is part of my social anxiety issues; I'm afraid of getting to that point, I had a physical meltdown in church two weeks ago and have been terrified to go back since.
An OT can evaluate what's going on and may spot things that even doctors won't about the way his brain is functioning and what may help him if he has these kinds of issues. That's why my mom really strongly recommends it. When he gets older, there are all kinds of products and therapies that can help if he does need them. SI issues often go along with other physical problems (like my brother's disgraphia and my second cousin's multitude of problems related to the VATERS association he was born with, and my balance, processing, and coordination issues.) My mom says that what you described therefore also reinforces her belief that a suck/swallow eval would be highly beneficial.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Oh wow, kq - I had no idea about any of this. Thanks so much for the information. It must be a real challenge to deal with!
Now you've really got me thinking. SSB is definately the most routine sensitive out of my children. My other two kind of fell into one naturally, but I had to do a bit of gentle persuasion with SSB. His cues were so incredibly erratic; my father-in-law noted at one visit that even SSB didn't seem to know what he wanted! It was after putting him on the routine that I noticed an improvement of his sleeping and feeding cues (rubbing eyes against my shoulder, for example). And, as I said, even though putting him on formula helped with his weight-gaining problem, we didn't see a real change in his sleeping habits till the routine. He (as I said) is so rigid about his little routine that when I joked about it to a friend she joked back that he'd be the kid in first grade saying, "No! All my pencils *must* point the same way!"
We're going to the dr. tomorrow for a check-up; I'll definately make mention of this to him and see about a referral, as well as talk to the LC about it. Thanks again for the info!
space opera
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Guy in the thread!! Everybody cover up!!!
-o-
You know, this thread was just adjacent to the picnic thread, and my tired brain/eyes compounded them into a "breastfeeding picnic" thread. o_O
[ January 05, 2006, 01:23 AM: Message edited by: Icarus ]
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Hey, that sounds like fun!
SO, I'm glad that I could share some information. It's a struggle to deal with sometimes, but knowing what's going on is half the battle. If he is having those kinds of issues, there is help for it, and figuring it out will probably lead to a marked improvement.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Well, it sounds as though kq and her momma were on the mark. I had an incredibly lengthy conversation with an LC experienced in relactation. She patiently listened while I described everything we'd dealt with (jaundice, thrush, FTT) and my description of Space Space Baby's need for a strict routine. The first words out of her mouth were, "Hmm. It sounds like he might have some sensory integration problems."
We talked quite a bit longer, and what I said boiled down to the fact that I wasn't sure anymore whether I should relactate given his problems eating and sleeping after being offered the breast. Very gently, she said, "I think you know what you should do." We both agreed that relactating at this point doesn't seem to be in SSB's best interest.
I'm trying not to kick myself for not realizing how important routine was to him earlier. The *only* time he did well while nursing was while he was under the billi lights - and we had to follow a strict routine. But the good news is that he's happy and thriving. We went to the dr. the other day and he's in the 90th percentile for weight, and the 75th for length!
Thanks everyone for all of your help and information.
space opera
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote: But the good news is that he's happy and thriving.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Well, I'm glad you figured it out! And don't kick yourself, please. My mother is an RN and an OTR and had worked with kids with sensory integration problems for years, and knew they ran in the family-- and it still took her most of a month to figure out that that's what my brother was dealing with and ways to help him. So, you're doing great to have figured out how to help your baby so quickly, and you're not even a professional in dealing with the issue!
I want you to know that if you EVER need advice on SI problems, my mom and I are happy to help any way we can.
Okay - I just have to say that this thread, the tenor of it, the kindness, the compassion, the gentle humor - is one of the reasons I value Hatrack so much!
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I'm glad SSB is thriving and that you and Mr Opera are sensitive to his routines. Don't kick yourself- some parents would just NEVER get it. You have been so sensitine to his needs the whole way through.
He sounds so very much like Livvie. Same issues in infancy plus the SI. I wish I had found our more about it when she was a baby.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Don't kick yourself- some parents would just NEVER get it.
*nods* That is so true. You're doing really great to know exactly what he wants/needs!
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
You might think I'm crazy.
And that's ok.
The urge to nurse is a powerful one, me thinks. I can't give up on relactating! Over the past few days, I've offered Space Space Baby a "comfort nurse" after one of his feedings - just once a day so that it didn't upset his routine very much. Each time he has been eager and willing at the breast! He hasn't been upset, and is still eating and sleeping just fine. Baby steps!
I just wanted to let all of you know because you've been so very supportive; it's meant a lot to me.
space opera
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Yay! If once a day is going to work, then I'm so glad. Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
SO, it's not crazy. I think it's normal for an emotionally healthy mother. You love your baby and you want what's best for him. What could possibly be more terrific than that? Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
What they said! *hug*
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Space Opera, I am so impressed with your efforts to do the best for your baby and your family. Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
SO, I know just how you feel. I'm going off my medication so that I can relactate and we're seeing a specialist next week.
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Good luck with that, Mrs. M. Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Thanks, guys!
Mrs. M - that's wonderful! You'll have to keep me updated; I'd love to have someone to trade tips back and forth with.
space opera
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
I got my Lact-Aid today, and we are now doing all feedings at the breast with it. Space Space Baby is doing great. This is working sooo much better than pumping. I'm so excited!!
space opera
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Wow! Oh, btw, found another company for you: Integrations. The catalog has even more tips and things, and while I'd say their product line isn't quite as good for the most part, especially for very young kids, they have some books that look really good that I haven't seen anywhere else. Worth getting a catalog, anyway (their site is pretty crappy.)
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
Good for you. Just out of curiousity, how old is Space Space Baby?
My little nephew just turned seven weeks today.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Yay! SO, I'm so happy for you and SSB!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Posted by Miriya (Member # 7822) on :
Hey Space Opera:
I'm just getting caught up with your story. I'm so glad things are working out well for you and SSB.
I'm having nursing challenges related to baby Peep's allergies. It might be easier to just quit but I agree the desire to nurse is a strong one!
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
SO, I think if you had continued to bottle-feed because it was what worked best for SSB, you and he would have both been fine.
But I'm so glad this is working for you, because I know how it feels to long so badly to be able to nurse and to have trouble at it. So yay for you two, for trying again! Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
I have a dear friend who recenly lost a baby. It was stillborn. She's now got lots of milk but no wee one to feed. Is there any sympathetic and effective help I can give her?
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
That sucks, Jenny.
I'm sorry, I have no suggestions.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Oh, I'm so sorry. Frozen cabbage leaves, of course, are good for sore breasts. Since I don't know her, I don't know what would help, I don't know how she's doing, or how she would feel about donating milk to a milk bank (instead of just pumping and dumping, which can also help "taper off" the supply instead of suddenly just not using it.)
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I used the cabbage leaves and a tea called "No More Milk" from AngelBabyEarthMama. Tight bras too. It was still the just incredibly horrible, I had milk for over a month and my non existent milk tries to painfully let down when I see a nursing mama.
I am so very sorry she is going through this.
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
Yeah, I wish I could do more for her. Her family is taking really good care of her (maybe too much - she talks as if she'd like some more alone time). I'll recommend the cabbage leaves. And I'll try not to nurse Crow around her too much.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Jenny, I never even thought of that aspect of losing a child. Hugs to your friend.
We're still nursing away here. I'm starting to see some changes in my supply, so that's good. When he's with me Space Space Baby is no longer content to rock to sleep; he demands to be comfort nursed to sleep! He's not sleeping very well, though. He sleeps through the night (can't complain there!) but is barely napping during the day. I dunno though - he had his third immunization mid last week and was incredibly crabby. Is it possible that he's *still* irritable from that? It was the IPV, if that makes any difference.
space opera
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:I dunno though - he had his third immunization mid last week and was incredibly crabby. Is it possible that he's *still* irritable from that? It was the IPV, if that makes any difference.
The Princess got a horrid reaction with high fever, decreased appetite, irritability, etc. that lasted for 6 days with the IPV the first couple of times. So it's entirely possible in my mind...
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Interesting, kq. So maybe it is the immunization after all. Is it terrible that I'm hoping it is just so I can be assured that he will return to normal?
space opera
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Nope. Perfectly reasonable.
Might want to call the pediatrician. Two reasons: to get reassurance that the shot is likely the cause, and to report the reaction.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Hey, Jenny G, I was late-night web-window-shopping and saw that this breast-binder is on sale at the BabyCenter Store. It's designed to help suppress lactation and make the transition more comfortable. I just thought I'd mention it. I've never tried it and wouldn't know if it would make things more comfortable or not.
(Out of curiosity, that page mentions "prescription medications" to suppress lactation that are no longer available. Never heard of it, has anyone else?)
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
My mom mentioned to me that she was given a prescription when I was born to suppress lactation since she didn't want to breastfeed, but she doesn't remember what it was.
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
The drug she took is most likely off the market now. There was one such drug still in use but it was deemed not safe some years ago.
A breast binder really isn't necessary, in general. A firm supportive bra that doesn't put unneccessary pressure on any particular spot (to avoid a plugged duct) is best.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Hmm. I beginning to wonder how in the world I'm going to cut back the formula supplement. Everything I've read says you can tell when to cut back because baby will begin taking less of the supplement. However, Space Space Baby eats if it's there. I could probably make that kiddo a 10 ounce bottle and he'd finish it.
I know he's getting more from me because it's taking longer and longer for the level of formula to begin going down in the bag. I can also hear him swallowing occasionally during comfort nursing without the lact-aid. I think once I can begin pumping out at least 1 oz. I'll go see an LC to discuss cutting the supplement down correctly. SSB's doc won't be any help - he seemed...umm...freaked when I mentioned relactating.
space opera
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:SSB's doc won't be any help - he seemed...umm...freaked when I mentioned relactating.
I'm really glad you have a lactation consultant, then. Maybe you can change his mind with your success.
A google search found one drug that "can be used to stop lactation", but it seems to be an off-label use, and looks like it would only be used in people who are not stopping lactation normally (Boon mentioned somewhere that she's had her youngest weaned for quite a long time and her milk still lets down, I'm thinking something like that might qualify if it was to the bothersome point.) It has some nasty side effects, so I can see why they would usually "let nature take its course."
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Yay! I pumped out 1/2 ounce last night! Looks like we'll begin cutting the supplement soon.
space opera
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Good for you!
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Cool! Good for you, SO!
When Nathan finally weaned, my milk continued to let down at odd moments for the next year. And years later, I swear that a crying baby (one that has been crying for a long time) will still produce that tingling/let-down sensation.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
So busy! Just thought I'd update for anyone wondering...
Space Space Baby is now 1/3 breastfed. He's gaining weight and drinking less formula every week.
space opera
edit: Oh, and he refuses all bottles now as well. Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Thanks for sharing the news with us, SO. Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
We are now at 50% mama milk.
Boobs are amazing.
space opera
edit: Oh, we finally told the dr. about relactating this week. He just threw his hands in the air, smiled, and said, "He looks good, mama." Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
rehashing an ancient conversation in this thread -- When my nephew was born I remember my sister saying that she couldn't take antihistamines for her allergies because they'd supress lactation. So...would simply taking a benadryl supress lactation?
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
Space Opera - !
SM - maybe a little ... enough to avoid benadryl if you're worried about your milk supply, but not enough to dry you up if you're super lactating woman and you're ready to quit.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
SO, awesome!
SM, IME having a cold (or drippy allergies) is somewhat drying. So I always had to drink lots extra, with or without an antihistamine. I'd be hesitant to take one when I had a newborn (or was otherwise concerned about establishing supply), but not otherwise. Even if I planned to continue nursing for a long time.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Here is a planning ahead question -- I know that newborns nurse every 2-3 hours. Does that schedule continue until they start eating solid food, or do their larger tummies eventually allow them to go longer between feedings?
Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
It varies. All three of my kids were sleeping 4-6 hour stretches at night by 5 weeks though.
Congrats, SO!
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by dkw: Here is a planning ahead question -- I know that newborns nurse every 2-3 hours. Does that schedule continue until they start eating solid food, or do their larger tummies eventually allow them to go longer between feedings?
Even before they start on solids, most babies stretch to 3-4 hours. In fact, early solids are more for "practice" than actually filling up. So they don't make all that much difference in terms of a baby's frequency of feeding until at least 6 months, and more likely 9.
And I know at least one mother who breastfeeds exclusively until 12 months, and she told me her babies stretched out between-times as they got older. I don't remember exactly, but it was very comparable to my kids who started on solids at more typical ages.
Of course, every baby is different. So planning this long is advance is awfully likely to be an exercise in futility. Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
It's not really planning as much as marshalling my arguments for baby-in-a-sling at work until we're spacing the feedings 3-4 hours. So, 4-6 months, probably?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
IME, after about 4 months, taking a baby with you to work (or in my case, classes) becomes very difficult. Not so much because they can nurse less often (which they generally do), but because they SLEEP less.
A two month old in a Snugli (which I vastly prefer over a sling, but YMMV) is likely to snooze most of the day away. A four month old spends much of the time awake and alert, makes shy (or not so shy, depending on the kid) eye contact with everyone else around them, gurgles and sings, and is generally a huge distraction. (Lots of fun, but don't expect to get much done.)
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Hmm. As long as we can space feedings at 3 hours or longer before the mongoose is too squirrely to have at work, I think this is a possibility. I can schedule my day so that I can work in 3 hour blocks and come home for 45 minutes to an hour between them and still be productive. Anything shorter than that would be a major pain, so either baby comes along or we have to start dealing with pumps and bottles.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
A squirrelly mongoose, eh?
It's a good idea to have a decent pump on hand anyway, and a few bottle of frozen breast milk just in case. (The two of you may want to go to a movie or something and NOT rush home, every so often.)
So your plan seems reasonable, as long as you are prepared to be flexible.
Good luck!
(Oh, and were you or any of your sibs colicky? How about Bob and his sibs?)
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
It totally varies by kid. Ems ate every 1 1/2 to 2 hours, 15 to 20 minutes a side, day and night, for the first two months or so, then went to every 2 to 3, and stayed that way until she started solids (4 months-- she'd doubled her birth weight and was just chomping at the bit to eat "real" food.)
Bridget, on the other hand, has very strong circadian rhythm instincts. She sleeps 4 to 5 hours at a stretch at night (like, as soon as the sun starts to go down-- in time for us to have an uninterrupted dinner) but eats more frequently during the day. I have a feeling that she'd be more amenable to scheduling when she's a few months old, too-- Bridey is a lot more laid-back than Ems ever was. So you might have to wait to see what the kid is like before you make solid plans.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
(I also found that if I'm really engorged, I can hand express a little, but every time I pump, I get mastitis. So my kids get a little formula unless I've been engorged lately if I want to go out. I never planned on that, but it happened.)
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Are you sure you were using a decent pump? Cheap pumps can be really, really bad.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Even using the hospital-grade one I borrowed. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
(Of course, there's 1 1/2 oz. in the freezer right now from when I was engorged the other day. That's from one side. When I get engorged, I get really engorged. So there was always something in the freezer for Ems, even if it had to be mixed with formula to be enough.)
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: Even using the hospital-grade one I borrowed.
Yikes!
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
dkw, you probably know this, but be prepared for the fact that your babe might nurse a lot more often than every 2-3 hours at first. When your milk comes in they tend to do a lot of cluster feeding (feeding very very very frequently) in order to help establish your supply. Some babies nurse every 45 minutes. If it helps any, SSB is 6 months old, just began solids last week, and nurses every 3 hours. But...he sleeps about 10 hours a night without waking as well.
And yay for slinging at work! We still use our slings tons.
space opera
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Dana, I have to concur with those who say you have to wait and see what your baby is like. You might find moms at the La Leche League forums who have faced similar situations - try asking there.
A friend of mine who was a religious school director at a synagogue took all her babies to work, cause she was able to work it out with the synagogue administrators to do that.
Definitely, start marshalling your arguments, but don't count on the baby spacing out feedings a certain amount, cause you don't know what your baby will be like, and you can't necessarily count on your baby spacing out feedings to 3-4 hours at 4 months.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
I forgot to add this yesterday - if you get the right kind of sling it won't matter how often baby needs to nurse, because you'll be able to nurse in your sling very discretely. A lot of people have success nursing in wraps.
space opera
Posted by Mrs.M (Member # 2943) on :
Or you could have a baby who hates slings altogether. By the time Aerin was 2 months adjusted, she refused to go in her Maya Wrap for even a second - the most she'd gone before that was 2 hours when she was in the PICU. I tried Nojo/Ultimate Baby Wrap type slings and she hated them all. She'll go in her Baby Bjorn now, but only if I'm moving and only if she's facing out.
I'm a big believer in plan for the worst and hope for the best, so you might want to schedule as though you'll have a very fussy, demanding baby. That will leave you with lots of room to maneuver when the baby turns out to be a laid-back angel.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Ems hated any kind of confinement from the first, too... The only parenting conflict I ever got in with my mother-in-law was when I refused to leave the (public) room we were in to breastfeed her and refused to put a blanket over her-- because I knew she'd stop eating, throw the blanket, and scream bloody murder if I did, and I felt no shame or need to leave (no one was looking but my mother-in-law anyway.) But Bridget loves being swaddled, luckily; it's so nice to have a way to soothe her! (She doesn't like to be covered up when she's eating, either, though.)
Posted by Mama Squirrel (Member # 4155) on :
I am lucky in that I can have Squoose here at work (at least for a while). He doesn't have a regular feeding schedule. He eats as soon as he wakes up. It doesn't matter if he slept 30 minutes or 3 hours. Basically he sleeps, eats, is awake for an hour and goes back to sleep. He really doesn't like being awake more than an hour.
I do have a sling which I use quite freguently at work. Today is great, he is taking every nap in the port-a-crib. There have been days when he will not sleep in there and he has spent the whole day in the sling. Those days are not so great.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
How did you broach the idea with your company? Or did they already have a policy about it?
Posted by Mama Squirrel (Member # 4155) on :
Well, it's a small company. I had to work a little almost immediately. I am the only one authorized to do payroll which is every other week. When I had to come in I brought Squoose. When I started back full-time I kept bringing him with me. It was a couple of days before I had a chance to talk to the boss. He said it was good for Squoose to be here. He said it was better for him to be with me for now. There is no agreement on how long he can stay here with me. I think Superstation was at work with me until 4 1/2 months. I do feel very lucky.
Posted by Mama Squirrel (Member # 4155) on :
Oh, and the only other person to have a baby since I joined this company took 6 months off. I went back to full-time at 6 weeks.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Cool. When I was in my previous appointment, I would have had no problem just taking the baby with me. In fact, when we got married people started asking if we planned to have kids and if I'd bring them along on home and nursing home visits.
Here we have a larger staff, and staff meetings, and a more "business" like office atmoshpere. And I have a senior colleague who did not handle the initial news of my pregnancy well. He apologized later, but it's been a shock to his system. He's been surprised, I think, by how supportive/happy/excited the congregation has been since we announced the pregnancy. (We had a few people who were very anti-female pastor when I first came, so he was afraid that pregnant pastor would put them over the edge.)
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Good for you!
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He's gaining weight and drinking less formula every week.![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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If it helps any, SSB is 6 months old, just began solids last week, and nurses every 3 hours. But...he sleeps about 10 hours a night without waking as well.