It has happened a few times in chat or ellsewhere, that I have mentioned that I was going to get to see some Jatraquera or othet that I've met. Like, "Oh, Ben's having a picnic this weekend, and Lucky's coming! I haven't seen her since..."
Then, a guy (it's always a guy) says, "Give her a big, wet sloppy kis on the lips for me. And make sure you get a picture of it, to send me." Har, har.
Slash offered me money (I forget whether it was $100.00 or $150.00) if I could get Morena Baccarin to kiss me when she was at DragonCon this year. If I got it on film, that is. ( I was not up to standing in line for five hours, even for that kind of cash.)
Why do men do this? And why is not offensive to say such things in casual conversation?
(I freely admit that I was not offended, though I suspect I would have been some years ago.)
I am curious about whys and the wherefores of the whole "lesbian chic" thing, is all.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
This is America you're talking about. We love quantity as much as quality!
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
So the picture of us pressing cheek to cheek might be worth something, eh? Glad I saved that one.
*twinkle
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
Because a man, watching lesbians, believes that any minute, they're going to turn to him and invite him to join them.
Also, boys are dumb. Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: So the picture of us pressing cheek to cheek might be worth something, eh?
Yes. Especially if you are topless- or at least appear to be so (i.e. ElJay's SR avatar).
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
And why is not offensive to say such things in casual conversation?
It is offensive.
A picture of you and Inara getting it on is worth at least, two, three hundred dollars.
Slash, you disgust me.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Hon, we were wearing so many layers it isn't even funny. I also painted her nails and braded her gorgeous hair, but I have no pictures for the likes of you, as it was private. Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
You could always be like, well, if you kiss another guy for me... But most guys would pale and shudder in horror.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
There are many things that I don't "get" about men. This is one of them. I don't believe that there is a corresponding stereotype about women getting turned on by seeing gay men together. But "guys dig lesbians" is a cliche.
I think, though, that this only goes for "femme-y" lesbians. The butch type is less appealing to men, from what I gather.
Offensive? Kind of, yeah.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Olivet: for the likes of you
Backhanded!
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
People who write misleading thread titles go to the special hell.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I think part of it might be a basic belief that women are not homosexual just because they are making out together, that it is "natural." (SORRY, OLIVE!)
Disclaimer: This is not a well framed argument, just a vague feeling expressed.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: People who write misleading thread titles go to the special hell.
Ooh! There's a special hell? 'Cause the ordinary one looks kind of low class. All those raggedy clothes, and all. And, from what I understand, really inadequate air conditioning. In any event, everyone depicted there seems kind of miserable. Maybe the special one is nicer?
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: You could always be like, well, if you kiss another guy for me... But most guys would pale and shudder in horror.
I would, if the dude were good looking. I mean, I have to have standards.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
I'm curious as to how many of the guys who disapprove of homosexuality would heartily approve of a picture of two women kissing.
But, eh, I'm cynical.
Hey, look, a palindromic post count!
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
I made a very long and frank posting on this subject here the last time this subject came up.
It was later moved to sakeriver, since it was deemed to graphic for this PG-13 environment.
I wonder how well the search function over there works.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
(psst...just click the "Find all posts by Xavier" button in your profile)
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Last I knew, that function didn't work for me (according to Niki).
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
Freaky! It doesn't!
Posted by Valentine014 (Member # 5981) on :
Mike said it's probably because his username is just one letter: "X".
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
I believe it's in the Sex thread, and I would guess in the page 4 - 7 range. Although that's really baseless conjecture. Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
It's a whole thread, all on its own.
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Ah, okay. Nevermind.
Posted by Valentine014 (Member # 5981) on :
Actually, it's his thread on page 14.
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
I bumped it.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Livvy, I will always cherish that trip you made. Such a wonderful, zany, splendid few days!
But yeah, we were a pretty well-bundled pair. Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Sara, I totally had the time of my life. You have no idea how much I needed it. I should just call you. Duh
Wow! I get to go to Special Hell. *preens*
The thing I find most offensive is when girls kiss each other just to titillate men. To horribly misappropriate a lyric from a Michael Card(no relation, I think) song, "That's not what a kiss is for."
I'm not attracted to women, generally speaking. I like men. A lot. I like 'em butch OR geeky, shy OR exuberant, gray and careworn or young and stupid. Eyeliner can also be hot. I love guys. Yet there are, naturally, some men I find not-at-all attractive.
However, I will admit to to a certain *GUH* in the pit of my stomach at the sight of attractive men kissing each other. I can't explain it. It seems to be atypical, but I have come to believe it is not truly aberrant. Partly because of the abundance of yaoi and slash on the internet, but mostly because the reverse seems to be true for a lot of men (what with the Two Girls = Hot cliché).
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Rereading my post on sake, it wasn't nearly as long or as insightful as I remember it being. I think partly because I was self-editing for hatrack, and didn't want to go into too many details. Oh well, memory is an interesting thing.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Confession: I clicked on the link hoping to see pictures of kissing.
Oh, come on! So did YOU!
<-- titillating?
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
This is not the *first* time I have been eligible for "Special Hell", though it may be the first time since Tante's been around. Posted by Silent E (Member # 8840) on :
1. I am NOT excited by girl-on-girl stuff.
2. I have developed a theory (or a couple of related theories) about why many other men ARE excited by such stuff. It goes like this:
a. Guys like looking at sexy women.
b. Guys REALLY like looking at women who appear to enjoy sex. Too often, we are told (or it is implied) that we are the only ones that are horny. Some of us may have had sexual experiences that seemed to confirm a woman's non-interest in sex.
c. Straight guys almost NEVER like looking at sexy, naked men, but will deal with it if the woman is attractive/exciting enough.
d. If you cut out the man, a woman by herself can still be enjoyable to look at, but that leaves out the factor of a woman enjoying sex.
e. If you add another woman, you get the enjoyment of sex factor back, and you don't have to deal with the presence of a gross man. Plus, you get to look at another sexy woman.
f. For some guys, there may be an additional, strange factor. They may think, "Wow, this girl wants sex so much, she's willing to settle for another girl -- imagine if I was there; boy, she would jump all over me."
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
For a lot of guys I know, it's simple math. One hot girl = hooray! Two hot girls = hooray hooray!
For me, seeing two women is actually a turn off, since it's eliminated me from the equation (and I am all kinds of unattracted to bi people).
Posted by Ophelia (Member # 653) on :
quote:since it's eliminated me from the equation
Ummm . . . YOU were never in the equation.
Unless you were watching something homemade.
Or unless you're a pornstar, mad that the girls are ripping you off of money you could be making were it not for the desire for lesbian scenes.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Ummm . . . YOU were never in the equation.
Erm...as a male, I am in the equation (in theory) for every heterosexual female.
I was under the impression this thread was not about pornography, but rather about the phenomenon if men being attracted by homosexual acts performed by women.
Posted by Ophelia (Member # 653) on :
quote:I am in the equation (in theory) for every heterosexual female.
*gasp* YOU'RE Ewan MacGregor?!
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:*gasp* YOU'RE Ewan MacGregor?!
You caught me.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
Ah, Ewan. He snores worse than Ron, but I don't really care. *sigh*
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Paul Riser put it this way:
"I can root for both of them."
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: The thing I find most offensive is when girls kiss each other just to titillate men. To horribly misappropriate a lyric from a Michael Card(no relation, I think) song, "That's not what a kiss is for."
Is 'offended' really the word you want to use here? I ask because I just see a lot of women on this forum using the word 'offended' and not so many guys, so I wonder if women on this forum really do find so many more things offensive than guys, or whether it means something different for them than what it does to men, or at least to me. I mean, men do things for women to get their attention(titillating), and while I often find what they do to be counterproductive and stupid, I can't really for the life of me think of anything off the top of my head that a guy could do for a gal that didn't break the law that would be 'offensive' to me. Let me think about it and maybe I can come up with something.
I admit to being kind of biased against the use of the word 'offended'. It's just one of those things that is at once so vague, yet almost an ultimatum. "I find this offensive." Wow! There's just no negotiation with that, so it almost seems like a demand on the person being communicated with that they better not ever bring that up or mention it in anything like a positive way around the person who finds whatever offensive.
Am I making sense? Is 'offended' really the feeling, or is it just a sense that when women kiss for men it's kind of shallow and tacky? Because if it's the latter, that I can kind of understand, but the former I can't....
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
quote:Offensive # Disagreeable to the senses: # Causing anger, displeasure, resentment, or affront:
Disagreeable, yeah. Causing anger or resentment, no. Affront, yes. I find that sort of disengenuousness disgusting, as much in myself as others. There was a time when I kissed a boy, not because I liked him but because I thought my girlfriends would think I was cool. That was wrong.
I am sometimes not actually offended by things I categorize as "offensive". It's an affront to things I hold to be true and beautiful, therefore I find it offensive. I do not have the emotional reaction I would call, "being offended".
So, I meant to use the word "offensive" which may imply that I was offended. It's not offensive to me personally, but to my ideals of How Things Should Be.
So,
quote: Is 'offended' really the word you want to use here?
No, which should be obvious, since it wasn't the word I used. I can see why you'd link the two. But I can say "That is an affront to the dignity of honest emotion, honestly expressed" without feeling personally affronted.
Posted by Omega M. (Member # 7924) on :
Why wouldn't a woman find a request like that offensive? You should have said something simple like "That's inappropriate." in the softest, iciest voice you could muster.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Pardon on the last bit. My mistake. Wasn't trying to put words in your mouth.
quote: Disagreeable, yeah. Causing anger or resentment, no. Affront, yes. I find that sort of disengenuousness disgusting, as much in myself as others. There was a time when I kissed a boy, not because I liked him but because I thought my girlfriends would think I was cool. That was wrong.
Interesting. That doesn't sound like quite the same situation as two girls kissing to impress the boys, but I get what you are saying.
quote: I am sometimes not actually offended by things I categorize as "offensive". It's an affront to things I hold to be true and beautiful, therefore I find it offensive. I do not have the emotional reaction I would call, "being offended".
So, I meant to use the word "offensive" which may imply that I was offended. It's not offensive to me personally, but to my ideals of How Things Should Be.
I suppose. I guess I put it in the same category that I do all the other silly, maybe tacky, but essentially harmless things that people do to impress others of the opposite sex.
Thanks for the clarification, though.
Posted by TheHumanTarget (Member # 7129) on :
So...there's not going to be a picture, is there?
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
so... how much money exactly will I get for posting a picture of me kissing another woman?
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
I think Mack has a picture on her site of Jenny Gardener and me kissing Ela.
When I kiss girls, I usually do it sans camera. Posted by TheHumanTarget (Member # 7129) on :
Umm...links please...
Posted by Megan (Member # 5290) on :
If you're too lazy to go searching for girls-kissing pics on your own, then you don't deserve to see.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester:
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: People who write misleading thread titles go to the special hell.
Ooh! There's a special hell? 'Cause the ordinary one looks kind of low class. All those raggedy clothes, and all. And, from what I understand, really inadequate air conditioning. In any event, everyone depicted there seems kind of miserable. Maybe the special one is nicer?
<laugh> It's a Firefly reference, from the episode "Our Mrs. Reynolds". Mal wakes up after a party to find himself married to this very young woman called Saffron. Here are some quotes:
quote:Book: If you take sexual advantage of her, you're going to burn in a very special level of hell. A level they reserve for child molesters and people who talk at the theater. Mal: Wha...? I am not... Preacher, you've got a smutty mind!
Zoe: So... are you enjoying your own nubile little slave girl? Mal: She wanted to make me dinner. At least she's not crying. Wash: I might. Did she really make fresh bao? Quaint! Zoe: Remember that sex we were planning to have ever again?
Mal: I would appreciate it if one person on this boat would not assume I'm an evil, lecherous hump. Zoe: No one's saying that, sir. Wash: Yeah, we're pretty much just giving each other significant glances and laughing incessantly.
And when Saffron finally manages to seduce him, just before he kisses her:
quote:Mal: Oh, I'm going to go to the special hell.
Posted by TheHumanTarget (Member # 7129) on :
quote: If you're too lazy to go searching for girls-kissing pics on your own, then you don't deserve to see.
<ouch>
Posted by smitty (Member # 8855) on :
Olivet, get over yourself. It's not just pictures of YOU kissing other girls that guys want.... Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
You're just jealous.
Seriously, though, I know that. Plus I know I'm not all THAT, which is one of the more puzzling things about the phenomenon. For some reason the idea has more appeal than actual pictures would, I think.
Posted by smitty (Member # 8855) on :
I can't comment, I don't really feel one way or the other about it. I'm not going to pay you to do it, but I'm not going to look away, either
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
I also painted her nails and braded her gorgeous hair, but I have no pictures for the likes of you, as it was private. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Blushing]](graemlins/blushing.gif)
![[No No]](graemlins/nono.gif)
![[Kiss]](graemlins/kiss.gif)
<-- titillating?
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)