Surprisingly I thought the most disturbing part of this story was the way the news crew reacted. Its odd, but I got the feeling that they were trying to mimmick the exact level of disgust and shock that was allowable for a reporter to exude. I didn't actually think they cared about the story, just the FACT of the story.
Also somewhat perplexing is their refusal to actually quote the word "nigger," instead saying "the n-word." For me, its all about the intent and the context, so saying the word when you are relating a story is acceptable, whereas canning it as the "n-word" says something about what is acceptable and what isn't, namely that no usage of the word "nigger" or "nigga" is ever acceptable... even to quote a person saying it.
While the teacher is misguided, and crossed a line he wasn't aware of, not prepared to fight a battle he didn't know he couldn't win, I don't think this is particularly damning. He was trying (misguidedly) to employ a colloquialism he ought not have used. That is what he SAYS at least, but what makes me give him some of the benefit of the doubt is that he is clearly aware of the controversy and doesn't deny his own words.
As for the kid he said it to, its wierd, but I got a sense that he was not being truthful. Specifically in the part of the interview when he says "for some... I didn't say it...no-body there knew that I said that... because I didn't," I remember my pathological lying days between the ages of maybe 8-12, and this struck me as a little false. But hey, the kid's 14, so who knows what he said, if he's just nervous, etc.
Seems the teacher was not fired.. What does everybody think about this?
[ February 16, 2006, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: Orincoro ]
Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
Well, if the teacher had been fired for saying f*** instead, do you think they would have said the word in the news report? I don't.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Good question, I think they wouldn't have... but I think they should be able to.
edit: and besides that, the FCC places sanctions on that word, in fact I'm not even sure I can put it in this post, and not on the word "nigger"
Posted by human_2.0 (Member # 6006) on :
What teacher doesn't say the f word? Ok, maybe there are a ... few.
All they are doing is making the word as bad or worse than the f word, giving it status. I think it is so so so stupid.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:What teacher doesn't say the f word? Ok, maybe there are a ... few.
A teacher would be fired if they said that in the school district I grew up in.
quote:All they are doing is making the word as bad or worse than the f word, giving it status. I think it is so so so stupid.
Some of us were raised to feel that it is as bad as the f-word.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
Only I didn't say "Fudge." I said THE word, the big one, the queen-mother of dirty words, the "F-dash-dash-dash" word!
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: [QUOTE]Some of us were raised to feel that it is as bad as the f-word.
And yet African Americans use it freely among themselves, and with others, even on TV. I've been called a "nigga" by black friends, and I understood the context. Although on one hand the word denotes a power relationship, this can be viewed as a positive, like the person called by that name is being included in "a club." when used in a certain way, I've experienced it as a way of reaching out. For instance, one black friend told me "your a negro," when we were working on a rhythm, and he meant it as a compliment. Still I don't plan on using it because of the negative conotations it still holds.
On the other hand too, I've had the same black friends call other black people we know "niggers," and known it was meant in a highly derogatory way, used against someone my friend feels has betrayed black stereotypes.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
That teacher didn't look very black to me.
I can understand, to some extent, the desire to take a word with negative power connotations and try to turn it positive through adoption of it, like the word "Yankee". As a person outside the community, I don't really have a right to judge that. But when the word still has so many negative connotations, I also do not personally feel it is right for me to use it. And I think any teacher should be censored for using it toward a student, same as any other potentially derogatory or offensive term.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Members of a group can use a derogatory word for themselves and weaken it, make it a badge of honor rather than a put down, and know that they themselves are not bigoted. If an outsider uses the term, the members of the group have no way of knowing immediately if the outsider is being funny or being bigoted.
Or, to put it another way, I can call my kid an idiot but if you do it you're asking for a fat lip.
That said, I think that when members of a group use a derogatory word for themselves they often demean themselves without realizing it. Richard Pryor, famous for using the n-word in concert, quit using it cold after he visited Africa and saw Africans living in dignity and peace with themselves. When you take on a derogatory label, you risk taking on the negative aspects assigned to it.
Or, to put it another way, if I call my kid an idiot often enough, even affectionately, I can't be surprised if he has low self-esteem.
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Well put, Chris.
*applauds*
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by human_2.0: All they are doing is making the word as bad or worse than the f word, giving it status.
It IS worse than the "f-word". I've taught my son that it is the worst word of all. The one that we shouldn't even think. Just this past week, I had to scold someone who used that word. I told her that it wasn't allowed in my house, and I meant it.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
I had the same sort of parenting regarding the n-word. My friends bandy it about sometimes, and ask why I so steadfastedly refuse to use it. The thing is, it's not a decision. I can't even say it, really. Even sitting here alone at my computer, I can't make myself say the word. It's like how I can't help automatically apologizing if I swear or use any vulgar term or expression around a woman (little chivalric notion).
Interesting what an influence ideas of decency and so on have on our actions later in life.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I'm the same way, Joldo. And almost as bad with the word-- it makes me wince to even type it-- "midget".
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: It IS worse than the "f-word". I've taught my son that it is the worst word of all. The one that we shouldn't even think
It seems that by degrees you are approaching some kind of mind control device. The word functions as a part of the language, it is what it is, it is useful to some, offensive to others, part our history and part of the social landscape today. To not THINK it?
It seems that you would like to deny the fact of its existance, and that might negate the fact that such an idea ever existed.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:I'm the same way, Joldo. And almost as bad with the word-- it makes me wince to even type it-- "midget".
...what do you say instead?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
"Little Person", the community's self-chosen preferred name, "person of short stature", also generally accepted as non-offensive within the community, or a clinical term(s) describing the specific condition(s) I'm referring to.
Occasionally I will say "dwarf" or "dwarfism" in a medical context, but I try to avoid it as it is also sometimes used as a pejorative.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: It seems that by degrees you are approaching some kind of mind control device. The word functions as a part of the language, it is what it is, it is useful to some, offensive to others, part our history and part of the social landscape today. To not THINK it?
It seems that you would like to deny the fact of its existance, and that might negate the fact that such an idea ever existed.
Well, to think it means that you are harboring racist inclinations, and I don't think that this is all that good, even for the sake of historical significance. I am trying to raise my son to NOT be a racist. If the word is on your mind, if you think it is OK, it is very close to passing your lips and revealing you to be the racist that you are.
I'm not trying to control my child's mind. I'm trying to shape it and nurture it to grow in a healthy way.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
If you think the word you are a racist?
If you I think about killing someone, am I a murderer?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Racism is a lot more about your thoughts and attitudes, while I'd say murder is more about your actions...
Although if you seriously think about killing someone, I'd say you do have a problem.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by Juxtapose: If you think the word you are a racist?
If you think it, mean it, believe it, then yes. You are a racist.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: If you think it, mean it, believe it, then yes. You are a racist.
Thinking it is not believing it. Context is EVERYTHING. If the word "nigger" meant the same as say, "blanket," would I never be allowed to say that I was a bit chilly at night?
Your trying to raise your son to be a good person, (of course) but no matter what you do, he'll hear the word and want to know what it means at some point in his life.
I grew up in San Francisco; when I was maybe eight years old, I was playing basketball at the school with older kids, one of whom was black, who were using the word. The same afternoon at day camp I said the word, in the same context, and got a stern talking to by a counselor, who told me not to say the word anymore, to ask my parents what it meant, and that it was bad. I didn't use it anymore and still don't in any context except one like this.
A good person is going to come to the same conclusion as I did. Whether his first experience is his own parents introducing the fact of the word to him, reading it in a book, hearing it on TV or on the street, knowing the word will make him wiser, not a racist.
If you believe that knowing about something is the same as investing in it, then why don't Christians worship Satan along with Jesus, and why don't we all kill each other, since we know about WWII and the Holocost. On the contrary, the knowledge of all these things enlightens us, teaches us about the wrongs of history and the succeses of civiliation inspite of obstacles. Knowledge is power for everyone.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Ya know, Orinoco, I saw this thread before anyone else had posted. Didn't bother to reply then cuz I doubted that you have any interest in the topic other than as excuse to keep trolling an offensive word onto the front page. Does being so easily predictable ever bother you?
[ February 15, 2006, 07:21 AM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Orincoro, I don't know how to explain this to you. I am typing very slowly, so that you won't miss anything. I did not say that KNOWING the word makes you a racist. I said that if you THINK it, MEAN it, BELIEVE it, you are a racist.
Can you understand the difference?
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
Every race, every people, every nationality has derogatory terms, how did this one become so special?
I find the whole obsession with the word "nigger" hilarious. Black people can say it to each other, but no other race is allowed to say it because then it's racist.
Isn't it ironic, don't ya think? A little tooooo ironic.
I've decided black people are no longer allowed to say the word "hello" to me. That's my word from now on, and they can't use it. If they do, it's racist.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
jebus, you're such a hello. I mean, really.
-pH
Posted by jebus202 (Member # 2524) on :
You're just lucky you're not black, darlin'.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
The teacher is a moron. The belief that "Nigga" is a seperate word is idiotic. It's just a different pronunciation of the word.
Also, he should know that he can't say that word. Respect of cultural idiosyncrasies should be one of the many concerns a good teacher has. Trying to justify the use of a well-known derogatory word is just plain pathetic- especially when he used it in a derogatory manner. He should just shut up and not try to make his position seem reasonable in any way as any such attempt will have the opposite affect.
The rest of you need to realize that words do in fact have power and that power is in the hands of the person you are talking to- not yourself. Your words will be more or less powerful depending upon their perception of them. Sure, you can taint that perception by context and tone, but ultimately, they are the ones interpreting what you say.
For example, if another white person or a friend of another 'race' (I don't believe race exists, but I'll use it to simplify this example) called me a "Honkey," I'd find it hilarious. This is mostly because I think it's a silly word and I know they were just goofing around.
However, if I walked down the street by 26th and North Ave in Milwaukee (a predominately black neighborhood) and got called a "honkey," I'd be pissed. I'd know in that instance that it was being used in a derogatory manner (this actually did happen to me once). I didn't have to let it hurt me, but my perception was that the person saying it meant it to hurt so it did.
Too many kids these days think words don't mean anything. This is absolute bullshit. Posted by airmanfour (Member # 6111) on :
The use of the word "nigga" is idiotic, period. It forms a seperation between the user and those prohibited from using it. If you ignore differences, instead of highlighting them, eventually they become invisable.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by aspectre: Ya know, Orinoco, I saw this thread before anyone else had posted. Didn't bother to reply then cuz I doubted that you have any interest in the topic other than as excuse to keep trolling an offensive word onto the front page. Does being so easily predictable ever bother you?
Well if you'd read the thread, you'd know that I am interested in the topic. Shocking I know! Although I did predict that many would feel that way, and tastelessly accuse me of trolling.
Does being so easily predictable ever bother YOU?
Edit: Not to be outclassed by such a ham-handed accusation, I will kindly edit the thread title. I hope aspectre's elevated sensibilities will be satisfied by this meaningfull change.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Primal Curve:
Too many kids these days think words don't mean anything. This is absolute bullshit.
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