Usually, Wal-Mart is disappointing and doesn't have quite the selection I think it needs. It rarely has the shows, movies, or CD's that I want. So, I have to buy it at a slightly more expensive price some place else.
Today though, something was different. My local Wal-Mart actually had a better selection than usual. And amongst its new merchandise was Arrested Development season 2. And, of course, since I didn't have it yet, I bought it.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Wal-Mart? *shudders*
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
I live in a small town. Its all we have when it comes to stores. And I've been wanting to get this DVD for a long time. I'm sorry.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
The nearest Wal-Mart to me is actually almost an hour away. The second nearest is two hours away. And I wouldn't say either of them are what you'd call "thriving".
I guess we're just not very fond of Wal-Mart around these parts.
Posted by Kitsune (Member # 8290) on :
I've never been inside a Wal-Mart in my entire life so far! I think I only saw around 2 or 3 when my family had a roadtrip to Vegas.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I hear tell of Wal-Marts in the south that have kind and helpful people - stores that are almost community centers in a way.
The northeast has nothing of the sort - in fact, I've found some of the worst service and help in Wal-Marts, when compared to other similar stores (Target, K-mart, etc). Add on top of that the fact that the company is evil incarnate, its true form most effectively captured as the giant black mass moving through space in The Fifth Element, and I generally try to avoid the place.
Posted by whiskysunrise (Member # 6819) on :
The worst service I received was from a Target. I don't shop at Target because of it.
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: The northeast has nothing of the sort - in fact, I've found some of the worst service and help in Wal-Marts, when compared to other similar stores (Target, K-mart, etc).
That's interesting. I don't know how far northeast you're talking, but the Walmart I went to near Pittsburgh was a thousand times nicer than any of the ones in Tucson. It wasn't crowded, the shelves were actually stocked, and there weren't obnoxious children running everywhere.
--Mel
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: The nearest Wal-Mart to me is actually almost an hour away. The second nearest is two hours away.
I live 15-20 minutes away from TWO Wal-Marts. They do not constitute a pleasant shopping experience. The best that can be said about them is that they are an improvement over the K-Mart shopping experience.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
There's a K-Mart 30 minutes away. There used to be one right down the street from us, but boycotts were so effective that it went out of business. (Although I've always found K-Mart to be a better experience if I absolutely had to go than Wal-Mart.)
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester:
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: The nearest Wal-Mart to me is actually almost an hour away. The second nearest is two hours away.
I live 15-20 minutes away from TWO Wal-Marts. They do not constitute a pleasant shopping experience. The best that can be said about them is that they are an improvement over the K-Mart shopping experience.
word
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I'm becoming really partial to Sav-a-center, since Tchoupitoulas Wal-mart closed down.
But I still have to go to Wal-mart for my electronic needs. Or Best Buy. I bought the ultra mega uncut unrated special edition copy of Saw from Best Buy for $12.
-pH
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
How much was Arrested Development? I've been wanting to buy Season 1 as a gift for my roommate but they haven't carried it here.
Wal-Mart is the only place to shop here. The only other electronics store in town was the Sam Goody which sold items at twice the price and is now closing shop. As for groceries, in the last three years there's only been one shooting (yep, I got evacuated from a Wal-Mart) which is WAY better odds than the two Brookshires in the area.
When I say its our only choice, I'm not kidding.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by theCrowsWife: That's interesting. I don't know how far northeast you're talking, but the Walmart I went to near Pittsburgh was a thousand times nicer than any of the ones in Tucson. It wasn't crowded, the shelves were actually stocked, and there weren't obnoxious children running everywhere.
--Mel
Are you sure it was actually a Wal-Mart? I thought those things were just standard.
We bought season two of Arrested Development there for $20, but that was over a month ago. I don't know if it's still on sale.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
I like Wal-Mart.
*runs for cover*
Seriously though, it's been very good to me. Not the best quality by any means, and Target usually trumps it for service, but for me personally, no place trumps it for convenience or prices.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
quote: Seriously though, it's been very good to me. Not the best quality by any means, and Target usually trumps it for service, but for me personally, no place trumps it for convenience or prices.
I wholeheartedly agree. Walmart is far, far cheaper than most of the other stores around here. Plus, I love being able to buy ink, a movie, and groceries in one trip.
Posted by RyanINPnet (Member # 8363) on :
Wal-Mart...? Ewww...
*thinks happy thoughts*
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: Wal-Mart? *shudders*
I have a very conservative uncle who teaches government at a public highschool. Whenever the family or guests at thanksgiving get into a conversation about Wal-mart, and somebody says wal-mart is bad, he looks them right in the eye and says:
"You just don't want to shop with POOR people"
This is a conversation killer. Not very fair though.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
Hah. Whenever I'm on vacation in the US with my parents, they have to stop at Wal-Mart or K-Mart and stock up on random household stuff like towels and sports equipment. It's become a something of a family tradition. I would probably hate to shop there every day, but it doesn't really seem much worse than any other superstore.
Although Wal-Mart exists here in the form of Asda, it's not really the same thing at all.
quote: "You just don't want to shop with POOR people"
Uncomfortable, yet somewhat accurate maybe? Whenever we go, the customers always seems to be a mixture of tourists or the poverty stricken. I get that a lot of people avoid it for moral reasons, but I also get the impression that some people worry that other people might think that they need to shop in there, and that thought horrifies them.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Quality has been an issue with Wal-Mart as well. My roommate shops there, buys all manner of things because they are less expensive than anywhere else. And these less expensive, okay let's call them cheap... these cheap things wear out or fall apart in relatively short order.
Wal-Mart's philosophy generally seems to be that they'll lower prices so far as to make things almost disposable, which forces their client companies to make products of such quality so that they basically are. Levis jeans has an entirely separate line for Wal-Mart because if they sold their normal jeans at Wal-Mart prices, they'd take a loss on each pair... so, you get an inferior product for a lower price.
They asked the Snapper lawnmower CEO to do the same thing, make a lower quality product just for Wal-Mart, and he basically told them to go to hell. (Not really, but he said "No thanks, and no, you can't sell our lawnmowers at all anymore").
Vlasic was driven into bankruptcy by Wal-Mart's unrealistic "everyday low prices".
RV Parks are even feeling an economic pinch in many areas because Wal-Mart encourages RVs to stay overnight for free in its parking lots, even putting out a guide book to all the Wal-Marts that allow this practice nationwide.
Now, I'm all for lower prices on things - take gas, for instance, where the high prices are there simply to increase profit - but lowering prices to the point where you're seriously sacrificing quality or crippling your suppliers? I can't really get behind that.
But, then, I guess every business Wal-Mart drives under gives them more unemployed people who can only afford to shop at Wal-Mart. Perhaps that's also part of their strategy.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
I wonder if rather than forcing the Wal=Marts to pay for customer's healthcare, we forced them to publish, on every receipt, how much the taxpayer is, on average, paying for their healthcare?
Honestly, Wal-Mart is an example of a systemic problem with the US as a whole. It's a manifestation of a serious issue in every American, whether they shop there, or at Target, or any other bulk discounter. It's a problem that looks great in the short run, but has a decent chance of making us the new post-Age of Exploration Spain.
---
Glad you got what you looking for though!
-Bok
Posted by Historian (Member # 8858) on :
Well, I used to work for Wal*Mart, back when Sam was still alive and it was a totally different place. I left them not too long after he died.
There really was a change in the company after that.
P.S. Wal*Mart, used to be a hyphen instead of the *. It was changed to honor Sam. I got to meet him once and he was a humble, honest individual. Who else could be worth millions and still drive an old beat-up truck.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
quote:Who else could be worth millions and still drive an old beat-up truck.
There are a surprising number of multi-millionaires who do this. (Actually, not surprising to me, but the number surprises other people.)
quote:I like Wal-Mart.
*runs for cover*
Seriously though, it's been very good to me.
Maybe the problem with Wal-Mart isn't how it treats you, but its how it treat other people around you.
Bokonon,
quote: I wonder if rather than forcing the Wal-Marts to pay for customer's healthcare, we forced them to publish, on every receipt, how much the taxpayer is, on average, paying for their healthcare?
Honestly, Wal-Mart is an example of a systemic problem with the US as a whole. It's a manifestation of a serious issue in every American, whether they shop there, or at Target, or any other bulk discounter. It's a problem that looks great in the short run, but has a decent chance of making us the new post-Age of Exploration Spain.
That's exactly right. _________
SteveRogers, et al.,
The issue isn't that you shouldn't shop at WalMart because it has inferior products. Wal-Mart is going to have everything you need, and it's going to have it cheaper.
The issue is that you shouldn't shop at Wal-Mart for the same reason you shouldn't by "blood diamonds," because your purchase empowers a socially degrading animal.
In order to appease your appettites, and cater to your irresponsibility, you are helping Wal-Mart set the quality of American Labor back 100 years, to save 3 dollars on a DVD. Wal-mart is the business instanciation of California's Prop. 13, where Californian's voted to lower the property taxes, hoping/pretending that social services would only be marginally affected. The result the being that California's public infrastructure and schools and amenities went from being the best in the US, on the road to being the best in the world, to large swaths of California becoming an affluents slums.
Middle class Wal-Mart shoppers are the equivalent to Edmund from the Chronicles of Narnia, selling out everyone in the world for sweeties. If you can, pay a little more, get it from a different store. If you can, wait until you can afford to pay a little bit more, and get it from a different store.
[ February 17, 2006, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
The single biggest issue with Wal-Mart is that they have (like some other, but much smaller, companies) figured out how to game the health-care system. Fix health care and Wal-Mart becomes just another big retailer as far as "evilness" goes.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
quote:You just don't want to shop with POOR people"
I am poor. I wouldn't shop at WalMart.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
Health care is the big issue. But there are other issues. When factories controlled community jobs, it was permissable, because entrepreneurs could make their living on satelite and auxiliary services. With one company controlling all of the auxiliary services, not only does it cut into existing business, it precludes starts ups because for those starts-ups to gain any traction, they are going to have to have some sort of relationship with Walmart.
I have my own business in the computer industry. As a small businessman, independent coffee shops and hotels are my vendors. Thankfully, I can still get a living working outside of the chain coffee stores and hotels. The chain coffee stores want to work with national company. And if there is no national company in my industry, they'll wait or go without. As a small businessmen, it's much, much easier for me to secure business from other small businesses than to have to get the approval of a corporate development director. And as I talk to more small businesspeople, this isn't a small issue.
Maybe it's my approach and demeanor, but everytime I speak with an owner- or even a decision maker- I get a new vendor, contract signed and people are happy, if I have to go through VPs and assistants, I'm screwed, and it's a long degrading, expensive, and exhausting screw.
I don't have any "in"s in the industry. And networking functions and associations cost more capital with only offer dubious results. But now I'm getting off topic.
[ February 17, 2006, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:I wonder if rather than forcing the Wal=Marts to pay for customer's healthcare, we forced them to publish, on every receipt, how much the taxpayer is, on average, paying for their healthcare?
Only if you make that requirement for every other business out there.
quote:Maybe it's my approach and demeanor, but everytime I speak with an owner, I get a new vendor, contract signed and people are happy, if I have to go through VPs and assistants, I'm screwed, and it's a long degrading, expensive, and exhausting screw.
This was my experience as well. Too often, what's best for the company isn't what's best for the high-level executive.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Irami, there have been huge, controlling businesses since the time of the Roman Empire. There is no golden age to return to. While businesses have been getting even bigger, you might notice something similar about the population of the earth as well. A vast network of almost all small businesses is doomed to incredible relative inefficiencies, leading to far greater poverty.
Also, your odd idealism regarding factories seems unfounded based on my readings of the period.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
The farther you get from Bentonville, the worse the Wal*Marts get. Sad but true.
The ones out here in CA treat you like every other store/bank/whatever treat you... like there's 10 million people in the bay area so what the **** do they need your business for?
But back home they do radical things like labeling the products with the price and stacking them on the shelves instead of throwing them there.
Pix
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
Dagonee,
I can't get my head around it.
My experience is thus:
Its a rare executive that reads anything. I mean, him/her recieving a proposal from my company is the equivalent of reading a credit card offer that I recieve at home. Unless I'm in the mood, I just throw those letters in a box.
Its understandable. So what happens is that after many phone calls and office visits, I have to pitch to some low-level exec or assistant, who in turn has to pitch it again to his or her boss. But the problem is that when the low level exec or assistant pitches to his or her boss, the assistant can't field questions or be flexible, and one of my strengths as a small businessman is that I field questions excellently, with charm and aplomb, (maybe not aplomb, but I have buckets of charm), and I have I have the imagination and sincerity to work out a solution that'll fit the vendor's issues.
The assistant then pitches to the boss through a game of telephone. The assistant gets something wrong, the boss has questions, and in the end, the answer comes back, "No." The whole process takes months, and it fails because I'm not in the room when the decision is made. I don't know exactly how to deal with this, yet.
With the independent vendors, I schedule a meeting with a boss. We get along. I cut a deal that meets his/her needs, and I come back again a few days later with a contract.
Of course, once a few of the big name vendors sign with me, or I buy a better suit, or I amass an armada of small business clients, the big assistants will take the company more seriously, and probably make a more energetic pitch on my behalf.
There has to be a way to cut these assistants out of the picture, short of stalking the bosses.
Again, it could be me. I'm not ruling out that my contempt and distrust of mid-level management somehow infultrates, in an untoward manner, how I negotiate with these non-decision makers. I don't particularly like business people or business culture. It doesn't get me hot, and for the most part, I don't think that money is morally arresting. There is a good service I can provide. It makes people happy, and I do it well. I'll say it, the assistants I'm dealing with are usually posers. They are predisposed to say "No," and I'm predisposed not to trust them to competently be a surrogate me.
Fugu,
At Ford, although there is a break room, you still have a person running a lunch cart, then the person running the lunch cart has his own set of suppliers, but the person owns that lunch cart and the suppliers deal with him.
[ February 17, 2006, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by Katarain (Member # 6659) on :
With more complete automation in factories, the supposition I usually hear is that the people who used to do the job the machine took over will lose their jobs. This makes sense, of course, and actually happens. But could it be that with fuller automation of maintenance and menial tasks that eventually people would be free to have a fulfilling career in another area?
It's happened before, and is in fact responsible for civilization itself. Before the plow, everyone could harvest or kill just enough food for himself and his family. After the plow, suddenly you have excess food, and people in your community can hold other jobs. That's how we got our priests, our breadmakers, our philosophers, and eventually, every other profession.
So instead of degredation of society, could automation solve the wal-mart problem? If stocking is done by robots, and everyone scans their items themselves (as they already do), and a sophisticated camera watches for theft, the only employees needed are the ones keeping the machines going. The initial problem is that a bunch of people lose their jobs. That's bad. And imagine if it happens all over--the service industry is completely wiped out by automation. All of the dreary, back-breaking, sweaty jobs are taken over by computers and robots. What will people do with themselves then?
What happens to all those people? I'd like to think that society would advance enough for all people to find fulfillment in whatever they decide to do. But it could just as easily create an even more tiered society than right now, with the poverty-stricken only being seen as a plague to the extremely rich.
But anyway... since I don't see people stopping shopping at wal-mart until something better comes along, I was wondering what the solution is...
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:The assistant gets something wrong, the boss has questions, and in the end, the answer comes back, "No." The whole process takes months, and it fails because I'm not in the room when the decision is made. I don't know exactly how to with this, yet.
This is ENTIRELY the case, Irami. And speaking as a former consultant and current decision-maker, there ARE tricks that will get you in the door. In general, you need to find out where the executives in your target industry actually get the information they trust. In many cases, it comes from their peers and a handful of trade publications. Recommendations from an underling are only considered if they SPECIFICALLY address a problem the executive has acknowledged and is soliciting solutions for at that very moment, so you're gambling with timing any time you cold-call a large company and try to sell a mid-level employee.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Irami,
You're in a different situation than I was. I was usually trying to finalize deals - my partner did the approach and the initial selling.
My problem was always that the owner understood why he wanted to do things a certain way. So, when I wanted to deviate, the owner could tell me his concerns and we could reach an agreement that met those concers without requiring that things be done in only one way.
Executives almost never truly internalized the "whys" underneath the policy, and so could give me no useful information for crafting alternatives. By the time I was involved, though, the owners usually had a stake in the outcome and were approachable.
Your more in the position of selling a product; I was more in the position of forming a working partnership. Obviously, there are elements of both in each of our cases - I just think the different emphasis changes the dynamics we had to deal with.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
quote:This is ENTIRELY the case, Irami. And speaking as a former consultant and current decision-maker, there ARE tricks that will get you in the door. In general, you need to find out where the executives in your target industry actually get the information they trust. In many cases, it comes from their peers and a handful of trade publications. Recommendations from an underling are only considered if they SPECIFICALLY address a problem the executive has acknowledged and is soliciting solutions for at that very moment, so you're gambling with timing any time you cold-call a large company and try to sell a mid-level employee.
Thanks, I thought I was going crazy. I can figure out a way around this, I just have to...figure out a way around this.
Wow, I used an ellipsis. I don't use those. I really am in a bad way.
Dag, I'll put it all on the table.
I install and maintain internet stations. They are Dell PCs with a credit card swipe afixed to the side of a "17 flat screen monitor. A patron can walk up to the machine and use it like a pay phone. Either they insert cash into the tower. (I refitted the Towers, knocked out the CD drive and put in a cash receptor in the slot.) or they can swipe their credit card. The machines, installation, and maintainance are free to the vendor, the vendor gets a cut of the profit. We work out the DSL service and comission in the details of the contract.
Now wi-fi is approaching ubiquitous, as are those Trios and Blackberries, but there is a surprising large market of people who want to sit at a real computer and do ten or fifteen minutes of internet work, either they don't have a blackberry or they don't have their laptop with them. One of the reasons I know this demographic exists is that I'm one of them. And if you go the library, you'll see a whole lot more, waiting in line to use the computer. I actually think that we are the silent majority.
I keep the charges low, and the machines running smoothly, and the vendor gets a monthly check, a source of revenue from a space that previously wasn't producing any. __________
I'm thinking about putting them into break rooms. Some of the big stores have 200 employees working 8,9,10 hour shifts, plus a night crew, cleaning and restocking. I've worked these jobs, and while I was on duty, I was isolated. Half my breaks or lunch time periods were spent staring at the wall. The other half, I spent reading a book. I would have paid a few bucks to go on line right then and there, especially, if I could use my excess minutes at my next break.
The other potential sight is a laundry mat, but that involves me building a sort of citidel to house the computer, so it looks like one of those old school Mrs. Pacman games. I've seen them, and I'm pretty sure I can build one. That's it, I'm starting a small business thread.
[ February 17, 2006, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Irami: one lunch-cart vendor is not large factories having space for lots of small "auxiliary services." I think you'd find that by far most of the auxiliary services were handled by the factory, and that at most factories this included any on-site lunch provided (through a subcontractor, of course).
And of course, I can point out that there are chain coffee stores that buy their coffees locally, and chain bookstores that buy from local presses, et cetera.
That they centralize decisions about your small business does not mean they centralize decisions about all of them.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
The lunch cart vendor was an analogy. The factories were not complete microsms. They served only one member of the house. Factory workers didn't buy the family grocery at the Ford cafeteria. Wal-mart, on the other hand, aims to sell everything. All of the auxiliary servics and goods for everyone in the household. Short of a hair cut, people can get everything they need from Wal-mart.
The chain bookstores and chain coffee stores buy locally because books and coffee are on their radar. It the services that aren't on their radar that centralized in the name of uniformity, but the issues is that if instead of having three Starbucks in a given area, there were two independent stores, I've have a much better chance of getting those contracts.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
quote:Short of a hair cut, people can get everything they need from Wal-mart.
Hate to break it to you, but Wal-Mart Supercenters do contain hair salons. At least, the one close to me does.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
*shrugs* selfishness about what would be best for you is fine, but there's nothing particularly new about Wal-Mart. Large retailers that sell nearly everything are quite old; so are small stores that do a bit of everything (even hair-cutting) -- perhaps you remember the term General Store?
Don't misperceive your own self-interest as a moral adjudicator.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
Belle,
*Chuckles*
So lets say that you are a small business person who has come up with a hair care product, and Wal-mart has knocked out 40 percent of the local independent hair stylists. Getting your product in the store and used used to be an issue of walking about to the owner and chatting, now you have to petition, and hope beyond hope that Wal-mart doesn't turn you down because you aren't a big enough company. And if it doesn't work out, you can always get a job as a cashier at Walmart.
Fugu,
I am working under the assumption that small businesses are good, and that they are something we, as a society, want to promote. My complaining about bureaucratic problems of dealing with bigger companies is similar in kind, but not in scope, to a teacher complaining about the bureaucratic problems of securing the appropriate textbooks.
[ February 17, 2006, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Sure, its nice to have a decent number of small businesses. But a society with almost only small businesses is no longer viable. Great poverty would become far more widespread.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
The trick isn't to complain about the existence of Wal-Mart then, because you can't stop that, but the non-existence of smaller businesses, which you can affect.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You just don't want to shop with POOR people"
I was forever scarred by watching that 20/20 thing where a woman stood there in front of a woman who made clothes in India that were sold at Wal-Mart and said that she wasn't sure if she would buy an item if it was 25 cents more, making it possible for the workers who made it to be paid 1 cent more an hour, which would allow for a better quality of life for the people working in the factory. (The factory had proposed it and was turned down by Wal-Mart.)
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
quote:The trick isn't to complain about the existence of Wal-Mart then, because you can't stop that, but the non-existence of smaller businesses, which you can affect.
Yes, you can invest a lot of money, start a small business, and then be run out on a rail when Wal*Mart undercuts all your prices to sell brand name products at a loss for their suppliers.
They're putting their *suppliers* out of business with their unnaturally low prices - how can a small business, which don't deal in the same quantities and need to charge more per item, compete?
Truth is, they're not competing so much as trying to keep their heads above water.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Dag, I was thinking of the other "big box" stores too... Wouldn't have to do it to intra-state small businesses, and what small/medium business wouldn't love to get mandated good advertising?
And if all businesses are essentially getting their health care costs subsidized by the government, maybe a national healthcare system becomes something more than a socialist boogeyman?
-Bok
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
This isn't exactly what I'd expected when I announced buying season two of Arrested Development...
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
And one of the big things that gives Wal-Mart that little extra oomph and lets them drive a higher percentage of stores out of business is their successful gaming of the healthcare system. Fix that and small businesses have another couple percent margin to play in.
Additionally, even given that small businesses survive. Yes, the balance has changed, but its not like Wal-Mart is an absolutely implacable juggernaut. There are small businesses that successfully coexist.
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
quote: I was forever scarred by watching that 20/20 thing where a woman stood there in front of a woman who made clothes in India that were sold at Wal-Mart and said that she wasn't sure if she would buy an item if it was 25 cents more, making it possible for the workers who made it to be paid 1 cent more an hour, which would allow for a better quality of life for the people working in the factory.
That's so cold, I can't wrap my mind around it.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Fugu and Bokonon are right. Wal-Mart is indicitive of substantial problems with American (really, Western) cultural priorities...but for all the talk, very few people want to do anything about it.
People talk big about how unjustified it is for us to buy cheaper and thus harm standards of living abroad and sometimes even here in America...but I suspect that there isn't a single poster who deliberately buys the more expensive thing for humanistic reasons.
Quite the opposite, in fact.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Well, some of us do work very hard to keep big megastores out of our communities and support local small business whenever possible.
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
SteveR, I was just thinking that very thing while I was reading through this thread.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Yes, well. Wal-Mart is a very touchy subject. But I really expected a conversation about Arrested Development. And it became a heated debate about Wal-Mart-iness.
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
I hate shopping at Wal-Mart; it's too big, too crowded, too cluttered, and they have very little selection of the stuff I actually need. They sell like one brand of everything, but no depth of selection of anything. I avoid it unless I absolutely have to get 6 things at once that would normally take me to 6 different stores.
That said, this comment:
quote:Middle class Wal-Mart shoppers are the equivalent to Edmund from the Chronicles of Narnia, selling out everyone in the world for sweeties.
... makes me want to start shopping at Wal-Mart for everything. Wal-Mart shoppers are traitors now? How condescending and rude.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
It was a very rude way to put it. But I do feel that those with a good healthy social conscience who are aware of the issues should avoid Wal-Mart if at all possible, even if it means going to 6 stores and spending a bit more.
(I would never put it that way, though.)
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
Did I forget to mention the with four kids in tow part?
Oh yeah. Those are my obnoxious kids running all over the place. Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Kids make it rougher. But I still wouldn't go to Wal-Mart if I could help it at all.
Ever seen O Brother? Where the mom ties all the kids together to keep them from wandering? Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
You know, I've been meaning to get those leashes for a while now....
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
Rakeesh,
Many times, I've bought the more expensive item for humanistic reasons, and I'm sure I'm not the only Hatracker to do so. For me, I don't need a whole lot of stuff to be happy, I also don't have a family to buy for, then again, I've also been of the opinion that if you can't afford a family- that means affording a family without committing a crime or shopping at wal-mart- you should wait.
Jennabean, I stand by my statement.
[ February 19, 2006, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Jenna, we have a leash for the Princess. She actually likes it; she's too independent to want to hold our hands, but I showed her how she can "pull" me when I hold it while she's wearing it, and now she's quite thrilled to put it on when we are in the store or wherever.
It's the harness type that closes in the back, of course, otherwise it would be off in two seconds.
Posted by JennaDean (Member # 8816) on :
KQ, I've been wanting to get the kind with the backpacks attached. More expensive tho.
Irami, you can stand wherever you want, but you better be careful about using jennabean's name in vain. Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
quote: Middle class Wal-Mart shoppers are the equivalent to Edmund from the Chronicles of Narnia, selling out everyone in the world for sweeties.
Actually, I think it's one of the funniest things I've read today.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
KQ,
That's a bit different though, isn't it? The single best way to keep Wal-Mart out of one's community is to not shop there. Or at Sam's for that matter.
As for small local businesses, I don't really know, I've never worked for one, but is being employed by one really better than being employed by Wal-Mart as far as benefits are concerned? Like, if you shop at the local deli for your food, are they giving the guy behind the counter health and dental?
I just don't see the 'evil' inherent in Wal-Mart. No one ever gets to be massively successful by playing nice, and while that's frustrating, they also don't get to be massively successful without our help.
Irami,
Really? You do your shopping with that as your primary concern? And you do it all the way down the line?
It's one thing for the woman to be watching the sweatshop worker and say, "I wouldn't pay an extra $0.25 for this." That's obviously a deplorable decision that in my opinion only someone extremely selfish would make.
But...what if it becomes a question of paying an extra $0.25 and that's the difference between buying from an Indian sweatshop, and say an American sweatshop, where working conditions are awful but quite a bit better? Do you pay that extra $0.25? I think so, sure, if those are your only two choices.
But how far do you go? Do you only buy those products that are produced by companies that treat their employees ideally? Somehow I doubt it. Somehow I get the impression that the things you buy-such as, say, a refrigerator, have lots of parts, more parts than you could imagine, and there's no way in hell you've tracked them all down.
So I call into question your moral concern about the working conditions behind the things you buy. How far does it extend? At some point, does it break down? Where is that point? Why that point? In fact, why buy anything since ultimately there's a very good chance that something you're buying was produced by someone whose employer treated them bad. Why not just farm, or something?
Wal-Mart is easy to hate. But it didn't just sprout like a daisy in springtime. There's a reason it's there, and we're it.
But maybe it's easier to say, "Don't shop at Wal-Mart," than it is to acknowledge that we're all culpable.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Oh, it's funny...but, y'know, not very accurate, either.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:And if it doesn't work out, you can always get a job as a cashier at Walmart.
Or, y'know, not take a job with a company whose health-care is crappy. But I forgot, Wal-Mart is the only employer out there.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:The single best way to keep Wal-Mart out of one's community is to not shop there. Or at Sam's for that matter.
And I don't. But we don't let Wal-Mart (or Target, or Home Depot, or anyone else) come into our community either. We finally drove the local Crown out of business by patronising small local bookstores instead and raising awareness of the issue. We let in an Office Depot, but only because we didn't have any small stationary stores up here.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
(And if there was the amount of evidence of a policy of mistreatment of workers, American and otherwise, against another company that there is against Wal-Mart, I wouldn't shop there, either.)
(If there is, please show me, so I can stop.)
(And also, I haven't been to McDonald's since I was 12, because of my issues with them, environmental, social, and otherwise.)
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Then your community is rare indeed, KQ. I applaud your moral and ethical dedication, and that of your community.
But since you've brought up both, I have to wonder: why didn't your community get together and help someone from within start their own small office-supply store?
As for evidence of mistreatment...Wal-Mart is the biggest. Everything Wal-Mart does gets by far more press. I'm not saying that this means the reports are exaggerated, I'm saying those reports drown out other reports of other mistreatments.
Jack the Ripper wasn't the only murderer in England in his day.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:But since you've brought up both, I have to wonder: why didn't your community get together and help someone from within start their own small office-supply store?
So many people work at home here, a small office supply store would probably be overwhelmed trying to supply them. It was discussed, but the community evaluated the business practices of Office Depot and decided we were okay with them. There's a not-too-far-away specialty stationary store that we patronize for all our general stationary needs, but we can still support the Office Depot as the highest-volume store in the region and drive a little further to the next community over to get our specialty needs met. Plus, we are happy with the extra jobs for teenagers and such. If someone had really had the capital and desire to open an office supply store that would meet the needs of the community-- or even the desire, and the capital would probably have been found-- the Office Depot would not have been built. But no one did. And Office Depot asked permission of the community, instead of trying to sneak around behind our backs or fight us, taking their proposal to the same public forums that we usually use to fight large businesses trying to encroach on us. So we liked that a lot better.
We also have about 1 large chain grocery store every mile and a half on average on our main street, but we also manage to support more than 50 small ethnic groceries and food shops. Basically, we like quality and that "local business treatment" up here, and we're willing to pay for it. Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
I've got to say that I agree that getting a job with a small mom and pop store over Wal-Mart is not going to get that employee better health benefits. Heck, the Mom and Pop most likely doesn't have health insurance at all.
There's a small family-owned grocery here in town that's been here for years and I know several people who've worked there. The vast majority being high school kids who work there after school. They make minimum wage, no benefits. I go there occasionally for essentials because it's close but when the prices aren't just a few cents higher but as much as a dollar more on one item like a gallon of milk, I'm sorry but I'm not going to spend an extra $100 a week or so just to not shop at WalMart. My budget won't allow it.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Irami,
Given your unique brand of racial politics, have you considered what this:
quote:...that means affording a family without committing a crime or shopping at wal-mart- you should wait.
Would actually mean? Given that in America far and away white people are much more likely to be able to afford raising a family than any minority, the current trend of minorities expanding to make up a bigger percentage would reverse...
And I'll bet you'd love that.
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
quote:Originally posted by whiskysunrise: The worst service I received was from a Target. I don't shop at Target because of it.
I'm a cashier at Target. We work hard to keep you happy and this is the thanks I get?! Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Hadn't you STOPPED being a cashier at Target by the time you posted that? Or is cashiering at Target like joining the Mafia? Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
[/QUOTE]
We also have about 1 large chain grocery store every mile and a half on average on our main street, but we also manage to support more than 50 small ethnic groceries and food shops. Basically, we like quality and that "local business treatment" up here, and we're willing to pay for it. [/QB][/QUOTE]
This has me thinking...can you "afford" not to shop at Wal-Mart only if you live in a large city/town? My town has one tiny grocery and the situation is much as Belle described - workers aren't exactly getting health benefits, and the prices are so high that one can only really shop there for milk, eggs, etc. The town over, which is about twice the size of mine, has only a Wal-Mart and a Jay-C's. Seriously, the idea of 50 ethnic grocery stores boggles my mind. I can drive to Louisville, I suppose, to shop at Whole Foods, but that's a 45 minute trip one way.
Is it possible that in some small communities that a Wal-Mart (or other large chain store) is a good thing? I'm just wondering.
space opera
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
We aren't really a large community; this is over the course of 3 very small cities, two of which are made up of two cities each because they were too small to incorporate alone, that share a main street over the course of about 10 miles. (The rest of the community is almost exclusively residential.) But I get your point, I was thinking yesterday that the reason it works for us is that we're committed to keeping more small businesses coming in, and we have a very dense population that mostly commutes to work or works at home. (And in thinking about it, too, most of the smaller stores are better prices on things like produce and specialties, like grapeseed oil or seaweed for sushi, than larger stores. You get a better price on meat at the butcher shop than you do at Albertson's. The rest of the prices are fairly competitive-- no more than $0.25 an item or so more-- or better.) Ironically, the large towns near us-- Burbank, Glendale, Pasadena-- probably have a much lower ratio of small shops/big chains. We may very well be in a rather unique situation.
But we're in that situation because we value it, and fight to keep it that way. I'm not saying it would work for every city/town. But I think many of them could take a step in that direction.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
quote:but I suspect that there isn't a single poster who deliberately buys the more expensive thing for humanistic reasons.
Rakeesh, I don't shop at Walmart for this very reason. If at all possible, I try to find an independent store to buy from - and if this is not possible, and Walmart is the only option, I do without.
Moreover, I try to discourage friends from shopping at Walmart, and always steer them toward some other option for their buying needs when I am in the car. They have learned not to include Walmart among their shopping options when I am with them at this point, and I hope that same instinct holds them back somewhat when they are shopping by themselves.
My roommate still purchases things at Walmart from time to time, and I nag her about it every time.
So, yes, I will pay more for the same product if I'm getting it somewhere else - but, I wouldn't know it was more expensive, because I don't even look at Walmart ads to know what they sell things for.
Reminds me of a scene from What's eating Gilbert Grape? when Johnny Depp's boss asks him what's happening over at Food Land. He replies, "I wouldn't know, I don't shop there. I'd rather die."
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
quote: but I suspect that there isn't a single poster who deliberately buys the more expensive thing for humanistic reasons.
I do, on a regular basis. Fair trade coffee and food from local farmers are two examples. And as I have noted, I'm both low income and busy.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
FlyingCow & Romanylass (although I have to admit I prefer romanyzilla ,
I applaud your devotion as well, but I ask you this: do you shop primarily based on humanistic concerns?
Like, when you go to that store and buy something, do you buy the most expensive selection? That would do the most for those shop owners, wouldn't it? And how many things do you buy that have many parts made abroad, exactly?
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:I do, on a regular basis. Fair trade coffee and food from local farmers are two examples. And as I have noted, I'm both low income and busy.
This isn't necessarily a fair comparison, as certain varieties of fair trade coffee and lots of local produce simply taste better than what's offered at Safeway/QFC/Wegman's/Albertson's/whatever.
It's also worth nothing that the fairest trade coffee is Starbucks coffee.
I definitely do not care about shopping at the cheapest place possible; part of doing business effectively is learning how best to attract your target market. There are tons of niche stores that not only survive but thrive in spite of sub-par quality or high prices, purely because they have atmosphere, excellent customer service, or some other combination of mitigating factors that makes them more attractive to people. If my local grocery store owner remembers that I asked about a specific brand of peanut butter once and had it in stock every time thereafter, I'm much more likely to shop there - and I'm much more likely to buy other things there, as well, to save myself an additional trip to go to Safeway.
But if your small business can't keep customers, well...sorry, odds are you deserve to fail. One notable exception is when your property manager acts unethically - one small mom'n'pop toy & video game retail store I used to go to (and work at) is going out of business slowly because their property manager, after over ten years of doing business fairly, decided to rent out the space three doors down from them to a Gamestop. Yuck.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Rakeesh, if you are asking if I devote all of my time into researching the background and history of every product available on the market to by the most socially responsible one, then no.
That, in itself, is a full time job.
However, when something comes to my attention, Walmart being an example (or ordering roleplaying books through local comic stores rather than getting them online), I try to adjust my habits accordingly.
For example, I am currently looking into buying a bicycle. I could likely find one at a good price at some major outlet or retailer, but I'm not even going to look. There is a smaller bike shop about a half hour away that works exclusively in bicycles, and they will have my business. Will they be more expensive? I don't know, because I'm not comparison shopping them up against superstores.
I try to avoid huge stores when I can. I avoided stores like Barnes and Noble and Borders while there were still small bookstores in my area, but those have all been run out of town or bought by the supercompanies (except for niche stores that sell exclusively feminist literature, or somesuch).
When I find a product at a small vendor (say a farmer's market, or the like), I will make my purchases there instead of at a larger discount store.
Will that happen all the time? No. For instance, I know of a great hardware store, but it's a half and hour or more from my house. If I'm going to be doing a major project, they will have my business. If I need another paint roller for a job I'm in the middle of, I'm going to Home Depot around the corner.
Responsibility is not my primary objective, but it is a factor in determining where I shop.
In the case of Walmart, nothing they have cannot be found elsewhere - and normally at better quality. They deal in generic crap that is economically hurtful both to their suppliers and surrounding businesses, and I simply refuse to shop there.
I won't shop at Best Buy, either.
Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
I hate to break it to you guys, but all those things everyone finds so detestable about Wal-Mart are being done by all the chains, and big box stores. They all hire part time workers to avoid paying benefits (a large % of whom are students and wouldn’t work full time if given the opportunity), they all buy from overseas factories, they all try to drive the price down as low as possible, and try to bring consumers to their stores instead of their competitors. Wal-Mart just does it better.
As I have said before, I work for a manufacturer who sells to Wal-Mart. They are very demanding, but in many cases they are easier to deal with than some of their competitors. They usually take a much lower margin than others and pass that savings on to the consumer. So a lot of the times they sell some of our better quality items for less than you can get them at other places. Sometimes we even charge them more than other people.
Yes the quality at Wal-Mart isn't all that great many times, but you know when you buy a $20 chair it is not great, and if you bought it at Wal-Mart it’s probably the best $20 chair you’re going to find.
All those lovely local stores still buy most of their products from the same manufactures as Wal-Mart. The price is higher is because they can't afford to buy the products direct so they have to buy them through a distributor who is marking it up at least 15%-20%. So the owners of the local store are really the only people you are helping out. The manufacturers generally don’t care where you’re buying it from.
I am not saying Wal-Mart is great and has no problems. I don't shop there unless I can’t help it, but that is because I don't like the shopping experience, and many times they don't have the depth of selection I am looking for. I happily pay more to have better customer service, selection and shopping experience, but I don’t think Wal-Mart is evil.
Wal-Mart may have started many of the things people complain about them for, but the genie is out of the bottle and he's not going back. Even if they change all the policies that are questionable doesn't mean the rest of the retailers will. I am not sure how you fix the issues raised by Wal-Mart but they aren’t going away. It is now the reality in which we live.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:All those lovely local stores still buy most of their products from the same manufactures as Wal-Mart.
You've obviously never been to our local stores...
Although since part of the issue is supporting local small business, I don't care if the only person I'm helping is the owner of the local store, it's still something!
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
quote: Romanylass (although I have to admit I prefer romanyzilla ,
I don't buy the most expensive stuff intentionally. While my hubby does buy cheap plastic crap for the kids, I don't, and many of our larger purchases are second hand (like the stove we got at a yard sale last summer).I buy a lot of second hand so I won't have to do research.
Of course , that doesn't work with food. And eros has a point- fair trade or not, I can't stand cheap coffee. The local stuff is fresher too, so I would buy the WA apples and the local milk for that reason anyway.
Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
quote:All those lovely local stores still buy most of their products from the same manufactures as Wal-Mart.
You've obviously never been to our local stores...
Although since part of the issue is supporting local small business, I don't care if the only person I'm helping is the owner of the local store, it's still something!
Unless you’re buying handcrafted items, or locally grown things, you’re still buying from the manufacturer. You are just changing who gets in on the action.
As I said, I don't mind pay more for a better experience. I do it all the time, and I do hope I am helping local people out by shopping elsewhere, but I am under no illusion that I am somehow sticking it to Wal-Mart or anybody else.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Ah, but see, we drove a K-Mart out of business. Wal-Mart has tried to come in many times, and we haven't let them. I think we are sticking it to them, in our own small way.
Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
That is cool, what region of the country are you in? Here in the southeast WM is everywhere. In a city of 200,000 there are 6 stores and they are getting ready to open another. They are always packed. When I tell some people I don't like to shop there they look at me like I just said I don't like sex.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
We're in southern California, L.A. area, up in the foothills north of Pasadena. If you tell people where I live that you like to shop at Wal-Mart, they're liable to look at you like you just bragged about killing a baby. And took its candy.
And I've been musing over the "all the products you buy will be the same manufacturers." I don't think that's true. Even a lot of Trader Joe's stuff is manufactured specifically for them-- like their new Gala apple juice, grown and pressed by a Native American tribe in the northwest. And things smaller shops around here carry (for very good prices!), like unsulphured dried white nectarines, Lurpak butter from Denmark, grapeseed oil and giant fava beans imported from Greece, I was under the impression would not be available at Wal-Mart.
Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
Ketchupqueen.
You may be right about the food products, since they can be locally grown and processed. Many can't be sold nation wide because they would spoil ect. The big chains aren't into specialty items, or high end items so they won't carry them. They are more concerned with items that will have high turns, or move off the shelf.
I had a friend who worked for a pasta factory. He said there is absolutely no difference between the “mullers” brand and the generic. They made both and all they did was switch out the boxes in the machine. Your local grocery store, or even chain of stores, doesn’t own a factory that makes toothpaste, macaroni, chicken soup ect. But they have a "store brand".
People think just because there is a different brand on the item that it is a different manufacturer. This isn't true. I have been in manufacturing for 10 years and everybody I have worked for, with, or competed with, do what are called "Special Make Up" products. If you are willing to buy a minimum number of pieces (500 pcs for us) then we will put your name on it. You can tell use exactly what kind of specifications you want and even pick the color and packaging. It will be the exact same product we sell under our brand, made in the same factory and have the same quality but as far as the average consumer knows you made it.
Once you know this you will see it everywhere. If the local store cordless drill has the same shape as the brand name drill then it was made at the same factory, even if the grip has a different texture on it. The shape of the item is what gives it away because it cost a lot of money to tool up a new shape, but nothing to change the colors, and add on grips ect.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
SC Carver, you're absolutely right. The local dairy produces about 20 different "brands" of milk, all they do is stop the line and switch out the gallons that have different stickers on the outside. Exact same milk, processed at exactly the same place, different prices based on whose buying it.
I find it hysterical when people tell me there is a difference between the name brand milk and the store brand. If there is, it's only in their minds.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
I was thinking yesterday about this, wondering if I didn't buy certain items like socks and dvds at Wal-Mart where I would buy them at. I can't come up with an alternative that doesn't involve driving 45 minutes instead of 15.
So (and this is an honest question) is it better to continue to shop at Wal-Mart, or to drive more, thereby producing more pollution with my car?
space opera
Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
I was very tempted to say some very smart comment about growing your own cotton, but then I decided that would be mean.
So I will just say that I am surprised there aren't any other options in your area. I would hate it if Wal-Mart was my only option.
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
For many items, Wal*Mart is the only option here on Maui. I lived here before WM opened in 2001, and it's made a huge difference in the cost of living here, in addition to having more merchandise choices available.
One example I can think of, about a year ago, my daughter had a dirt bike accident and had a nasty abrasion/burn that needed to be dressed. I was in my "I hate Wal*Mart" phase and was trying to avoid shopping there. I went to every drug and grocery store on the island, including a medical supply store and could not find large gauze pads at any price. I gave in and went to WM and found them for what I would call "mainland" prices. There are still certain things I won't buy at WM, but for basic cleaning supplies, paper goods, health and beauty products etc, I shop and WM. And yes, even though it's the only option, I still hate it.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Even if you are buying from the same manufacturers at a local place as at Wal*Mart, I still think it's better to buy at the local place. By buying from local distributers (in essence) you create a more robust economic environment, in that there is often overlap, so if one fails, the area is covered. In some areas, I could imagine towns becoming ghost towns if the Wal*Mart failed. Also, by buying through local chains, you provide manufacturers some leverage against Wal*Mart, which may or may not have economic benfits of its own (I am nto an Economist ). fugu, any input?
Efficiency will always make things cheaper, but maybe we shouldn't look for efficiency in all things? Maybe it's better to gain lower prices through competition than from megastore supply chain efficiencies?
-Bok
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:Maybe it's better to gain lower prices through competition than from megastore supply chain efficiencies?
Ummm...isn't that a form of competition? Competition through supply chain efficiencies? That's why they do it, after all, to compete.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Sure, but the way Wal*Mart does it is by attempt to set up local monopolies. Which is completely understandable for them to do. That's just business. However maybe monopolies of distributers may not be the healthiest way to build competition.
I mean Wal*Mart was really novel, and probably doesn't get all the credit they deserve from non-technical economists (though I think most Americans aren't that concerned with their novelty). They completely turned the supply chain balance of power around, where rather than the producer trying to create a healthy supply in order to sell more widgets, Wal*Mart made it so that a distributer enforces an excellent supply chain system, or else dumps the manufacturer. They may not be the first, but they are the best at it. These complaints, as echoed elsewhere in this thread can certainly be applied to other distributers, like Target, however.
This solution that Wal*Mart came up with, while effective, may not be the best solution, and by "best" I mean it to include favorable economic externalities, not just narrowly economically the best.
-Bok
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
quote:So (and this is an honest question) is it better to continue to shop at Wal-Mart, or to drive more, thereby producing more pollution with my car?
This is where I would but stuff online. I but a lot of stuff from E-Bay and from WAHM businesses, in part because I have so many friends who are only able to stay home with their kids that way.
Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
Bokonon is right Wal-Mart got to be the biggest company in the world by doing a lot of things better than their competition. They are supposed to have the second most working satellites in world, behind the US gov. They track their sales better than anyone. If your store has a run on an item they will have more of it there from the distribution center the next day. They have their own truck fleet, no union pay, many times they promote internally for management positions- keeping the pay lower. Everyone shares hotel rooms on the road. The CEO and CFO split a room at a $79 hotel when they travel together, the list goes on.
All of these efficiencies have forced Kmart, Target and the rest to keep up or go out of business. One result is all the chains are now more efficient, saving the consumer money where ever they shop. So it is very fare to say Wal-Mart has helped to keep the cost of living down.
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
quote:Originally posted by SC Carver: I was very tempted to say some very smart comment about growing your own cotton, but then I decided that would be mean.
So I will just say that I am surprised there aren't any other options in your area. I would hate it if Wal-Mart was my only option.
Not sure what to make of your comment, SC Carver, and I won't get into a "holier than thou" argument. Maybe sometime we can sit down and compare my cloth menstrual products to your hemp bedspread and decide who's cooler and an all-around better person.
Romany, you raise a good point about on-line buying. I've been buying from more WAHMs lately, which I like doing. If you want to send me some links to WAHMs that you know via e-mail feel free.
space opera
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote: Maybe sometime we can sit down and compare my cloth menstrual products to your hemp bedspread and decide who's cooler and an all-around better person.
I'm sorry, but anything relating to blood and reproduction trumps something relating to sleep. Hands down.
(Although I think he was just saying that he's sorry that you don't have other options, and would be upset if that happened in his community. That's how I read it.)
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
Nope, kq. I think he was really saying that he envies me - he heard about my local hardware store where you can buy a huge bag of dogfood for $3.99 - even better than Wal-Mart prices, but Lord knows what's in it.
It's slim pickins' out here.
space opera
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
quote: Maybe sometime we can sit down and compare my cloth menstrual products to your hemp bedspread and decide who's cooler and an all-around better person.
I make my cloth mentrual products from well used unbleached cloth diapers I bought from a WAHM. Trump that.
Just throwing out a few sites (in a hurry)
My absolute fave is Joy's Earthly Goods . Lots of it is a bit pricey, but I shop her bargain/instock page and get great stuff cheap. Her stuff lasts.
Not WAH, but sweatshop free t-shirts and stuff from American Apparel .
SO, when I have time I'll e-mail you a bunch of links.
[ February 21, 2006, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: romanylass ]
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:I make my cloth mentrual products from well used unbleached cloth diapers I bought from a WAHM. Trump that.
I so love this conversation.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
As for chains: there is ONE twenty-four hour store here right now that I know of. It's a Walgreens.
I hate Walgreens with a passion, but I don't get out of class until after 7 sometimes, which is when everything else closes nowadays. So I'm stuck giving crappy Walgreens my money even though their pharmacy sucks and I have, on three separate occasions, nearly jumped over the counter and strangled one of their idiot pharmacy techs.
"Oh, we never received your prescription." I HANDED IT TO YOU. FOUR HOURS AGO. "Well, we don't have it." Well, yes you do. "Well, you don't have any insurance information on file." I'm SELF-PAY. "We need your insurance information." (Pulling out credit card) DO YOU SEE THIS? THIS IS MY PAYMENT METHOD. OR DO YOU NOT ACCEPT VISA TODAY?
At that point, the pharmacist stepped in. Oh, then there was the time that they tried to tell me they hadn't received a shipment of a supremely common medication in over a month. Then there was the time that they told me a prescription would be ready in an hour. I came back two hours later, and they said wait another hour. I came back three hours after that, and they said it would be the next day. I came back the next day, and they said it wouldn't be for three days...
/rant.
I hate Walgreens.
-pH
Posted by Space Opera (Member # 6504) on :
romany *always* wins!
space opera
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I am teh crunchiest! (bows)
Wierd, ph, just Sunday a friend told me of having the exact same problem with Walgreens.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
romany, one of these days I'm REALLY going to lose it on them and be escorted out. I know it.
Do you know if there's some kind of 800 number that I can call to complain? Walgreens.com is taking me to Walgreens corporate and trying to show me careers in Walgreens aerospace (?!), and I don't think calling the individual store will do me any good.
-pH
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I don't know one. My friend, who was there picking up his heart meds mind you, just ranted at them and has vowed never to go back.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Oh, I'll have all my prescriptions transferred as soon as I can find another pharmacy that's open after 6pm. But I wish to inform some boss or director or manager of something of my dissatisfaction.
pH, I feel your pain on Walgreens. I used to have a couple of small pharmacies around, but they were pushed out by CVS and Walgreens. I have also had nothing but bad experiences at Walgreens' pharmacy - so similar to yours, I wonder if we go to the same one.
The more chain stores take over with their assembly line of trainees and new hires, the less individual service and attention we will get. But, hey, we're saving a nickel here and there! Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I have actually noticed an increase in the cost of my prescriptions since I started going to Walgreens instead of Rite-aid.
You'd think people would eventually start realizing the value of personal service. I mean, it's one of the simplest ways to drastically increase repeat customers; make people feel like you pay attention to them.
-pH
Posted by Theaca (Member # 8325) on :
That's one of the reasons they can afford to stay open late or all night. The mom and pop stores can provide better service, but less hours and maybe higher prices. I don't know... you get what you pay for. More convenient hours, less well trained staff sometimes.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Of course, if you know the owner of the mom-and-pop store and have an emergency, you can call them and they'll come in and fill your prescription at 3 AM. Yup. Done it.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Exactly, kq!
I AM spending more at Walgreens than Rite-aid, for sure. And the truth is, I don't even MIND spending a little bit more for good service. One of the reasons I shop almost exclusively at Buckle nowadays is that there's a salesguy there who knows my name, school, year, career ambitions, former employment, favorite local bands, sizes, and general style. It makes shopping a MUCH more pleasant experience.
I went into Rite-aid today to have my prescriptions transferred. They are now operating out of a trailer. I think I'm going to go make a scene at Walgreens shortly in the process of getting my paper scripts back to expedite the transfer. But mostly, it's just to give them a piece of my mind before I permanently take my business elsewhere.
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SteveR, I was just thinking that very thing while I was reading through this thread.
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