This is topic "n00b." A question of linguistic origins. in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.


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Posted by JemmyGrove (Member # 6707) on :
 
I have a nagging question. I have seen terms like newbie , newb , noob, nOOb , and n00b floating around for some time now (I'm sure there are other variants I'm missing). Newbie seems relatively straight-forward (NEW-bie, someone who is or acts or is considered to be new), and newb could easily be explained as the short form of newbie.

But the alternate spellings of noob, especially capitalizing the 'O' or using zeroes, suggest that there's some other significance to the word, as if it's an acronym or a shortened form of some word or phrase. I've often seen this usage in conjunction with such words as own, pwn, or prune (ie: "We're gonna go pwn us some nOObs!"). The meaning of this phrase seems clear (ie: "We're going to emerge victorious in this highly civilized competition against opponents who are clearly our inferiors."), but it isn't clear to me where nOOb came from and why it is used the way it is.

Also, is it possible that nOOb is a precursor to newbie and that the latter is a misunderstood or misrepresented version of the former? Or, it occurs to me that nOOb and newbie could have evolved independent of one another and have since (perhaps mistakenly) become associated with each other.

This n00b would appreciate it is someone could set him straight. As long as he doesn't have to get pruned in the process.

[edited for spelling]

[ February 24, 2006, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: JemmyGrove ]
 

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Posted by MandyM (Member # 8375) on :
 
A n00b seems like internet-speak for newb. But the connotation is certainly different!
 

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Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
 
Is n00b Leet? Is pwned also Leet? I often hear my brothers/students mention 'leet speak' and I figured it had to do with all of this.

I should check out wikipedia I suppose....
 

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Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet_speak

Yes. I think n00b is l33t.
 

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Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
 
Oh, and hi there.
 

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Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
 
I'm going to work on the assumption that this is a more-or-less serious query and give my 2 cents:

newcomer (or something like it from "legitimate" language) became newbie

newbie was then shortened to noob (effectively the phonetic spelling of the first syllable)

due to a combination of 2 factors I can think of, it is often typed as: n00b
1) "leetspeak" where as many letters as possible are transcribed to numbers or other characters which can take their place (approximately)

2) due to the fact that the word sounds like the similar slang term: boob, which refers to breasts, the larger "0" is sometimes used in place of the smaller "o" to emphasize this mammary link.

If you want to go further you can view other offshoots of the term such as:
nub (generally used in either a more caustic or more sarcastic vein, also draws in reference to the insignificant with the comparison to more legitimate terminology of nub being the remains of something, be it a limb, eraser etc...)
nublet (associated with "nub" but adding further insult with the connotation of an infant)
 

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Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
 
additional comments on leetspeak, and associated terminology:

while some terms have been melded into leetspeak, they don't all have the same source. The mainstream push of leetspeak in my mind is to replace legitimate letters with numeric/symbolic substitutes, such as 5 = S, but some terminology breaks from this trend.
For example:
pwn is derived from the common misspelling of "own" but since the p key is adjacent to the o key, it is commonly misspelled, and eventually was drawn into common usage.

similarly "teh" is replacing "the" as it is the commong mis-type of the real word.
 

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Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
 
Yeah, I could tell the origin of things like 'teh' and 'pwn,' but I didn't realize they all had their own linguistic category. Cool.

And welcome to the forum The Grimace.
 

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Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
 
I use "teh" instead of "the" when I'm making fun of someone or something, generally.

For example, if I was speaking of some random girl who'd said something ridiculous, I'd type it to someone else as:
"And she was like, "OMGZ U R SO TOTALLEE DUM TEH INTARWEBS R LYFE!!!1!11!one'"

-pH
 

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Posted by JemmyGrove (Member # 6707) on :
 
Thanks all. I meant it as a serious query (despite the attempted humor), and that's great feed back TheGrimace.

And l33t makes sense, although that doesn't explain pwn or prune. Any ideas?

And hi Narnia.

Edit: Sorry, too slow.

Double Edit: Welcome to the board TheGrimace.
 

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Posted by JemmyGrove (Member # 6707) on :
 
So is prune then derived from pwn? Another case of using a word that sounds like a word that looks like the word that means what I'm trying to say . . .
 

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Posted by JemmyGrove (Member # 6707) on :
 
pH, that's hilarious! I love it.
 

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Posted by Earendil18 (Member # 3180) on :
 
People mistyped OWNED so often online, that the mistake became the norm.

Now people aren't owned, but pwned.
 

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Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Narnia:
I think n00b is l33t.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JemmyGrove:
pH, that's hilarious! I love it.

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Thanks! I win the internets.

-pH
 

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Posted by Earendil18 (Member # 3180) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by pH:

quote:

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Originally posted by JemmyGrove:
pH, that's hilarious! I love it.

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Thanks! I win the internets.

-pH

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That's "TEH INTERNETS"
 

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Posted by Swampjedi (Member # 7374) on :
 
Noob is derogatory. Newbie is not. Well, at least in the MMORPG world...
 

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Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
 
Swampjedi nailed it: "n00b/noob" tend to be derogatory, where "newbie" is just a term.

See the difference:
"Hi, I'm a newbie, what are the rules regarding signing your posts?"

vs

"ROFL OMG STFU NOOB."

"pwn" and "teh" were consciously adopted misspellings as has already been explained; however, I think they are a recognized part of l33t speak purely through association, since l33t began with the deliberate deformation of words.

quote:

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Isn't it |\|006?

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quote:

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Originally posted by erosomniac:

"pwn" and "teh" were consciously adopted misspellings as has already been explained; however, I think they are a recognized part of l33t speak purely through association, since l33t began with the deliberate deformation of words.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Boris:

quote:

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Originally posted by erosomniac:

"pwn" and "teh" were consciously adopted misspellings as has already been explained; however, I think they are a recognized part of l33t speak purely through association, since l33t began with the deliberate deformation of words.

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Is there a source for this information other than Wikipedia? It seems mildly questionable to me. I've been trying to figure out how correct it is, but haven't had any luck.

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quote:

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Is there a source for this information other than Wikipedia? It seems mildly questionable to me. I've been trying to figure out how correct it is, but haven't had any luck.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tante Shvester:
Oh. And here I was thinking that the original goal was to make the information unintelligible to parents.

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What I've always heard, although I'm not sure if it is true, is that a lot of the early leet speak started as a way to fool search engines.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
In my direct experience, l33t predates Yahoo. While I have no doubt that it became more prevalent in order to "defeat" search engines, its questionable utility for that purpose makes it more likely that it was adopted out of the vain hope that it might help obscure illegal file-sharing and/or hacking discussions (while, of course, reinforcing a sense of "special" knowledge.)
 

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Posted by JemmyGrove (Member # 6707) on :
 
Boris, that article was great. I had no idea what I was getting into with this topic . . .

I guess that probably identifies me as a n00b.
 

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Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
 
what I find particularly amusing is the different "levels" of l33t, and what is acceptable in certain company. for good example, many would not have issue with terms such as pwn, nub, n00b, l33t, etc. as the common and easily typed variants of the normal words, but then when you keep going along those lines of blurring to [V] and others (as mentioned above) you would likely be subject to ridicule.

Part of this differentiation I believe to be associated with the initial usage as an actual substitute to the normal spelling of word in conversation (i.e. I can train myself to substitute 3 for e automatically if so desired) versus 2 factors:
1) an attempt to "look cool" by creating even more obscure replacement letters (also coming out in the obscure symbols you get with alt + {some number combo}). this motivation is largely looked upon with annoyance or scorn.
2) an attempt to have a certain screename/handle which was already taken (seen as somewhat more legitimate, but still somewhat frowned upon)

Not that this discussion really gets us anywhere, but it's fun to mull over.

Also, thanks for the welcome to the boards =p

~Teh Gr1[V]ÃÇ3 (just to be rediculous)
 

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Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
 

 

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Posted by Historian (Member # 8858) on :
 
pH teh r0x0rz
 

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Posted by xxsockeh (Member # 9186) on :
 
I found one inconsistency with that article, being a big 1337 fan.
n00b is most commonly said as an insult, such as idiot, not newbie. That is, when in the presence of 1337 fans, at least.
 

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Posted by JemmyGrove (Member # 6707) on :
 
Does this mean that technically, the 'correct' l33t spelling of noob is with zeroes (as opposed to capitalizing the 'O')? The zeroes would seem to be in line with what I see as the primary justifications listed for l33t5p34k: replacing letters with numbers or symbols, and making the word unsearchable by keyword.

Is it a contradiction in terms to specify a 'correct' spelling of any word in l33t?

[Edit: on my own unsubstantiated advise I have edited the thread title to use zeroes.]
 

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Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
 
Yeah, it actually does look weird with the OO and that shows that I spend too much time on the internet.
 

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Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
 

quote:

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I found one inconsistency with that article, being a big 1337 fan. [Big Grin]
n00b is most commonly said as an insult, such as idiot, not newbie. That is, when in the presence of 1337 fans, at least. [Big Grin]

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quote:

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ROFL OMG STFU NOOB

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quote:

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Originally posted by pH:

quote:

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Originally posted by Boris:

quote:

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Originally posted by erosomniac:

"pwn" and "teh" were consciously adopted misspellings as has already been explained; however, I think they are a recognized part of l33t speak purely through association, since l33t began with the deliberate deformation of words.

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Is there a source for this information other than Wikipedia? It seems mildly questionable to me. I've been trying to figure out how correct it is, but haven't had any luck.

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I'd heard something similar way, way back.

I mean, OMG STFU N00B!!1!11one

-pH

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LONG and drawn out shudder..... ugggghhhh


I am SO GLAD to see that garbage gone (mostly) from the net. It was such a pointless waste of time and mental energy. I suppose you could label it a "cultural paradigm shift," but I would only call it tiresome, and confusing.

And by the way, "nOOb" is such a cynically pointless epithet, I scarcely consider anyone who might use it to be worth the time it took to compose even this response. As if the internet or any part of it exists in such a way as to place some in friendly territory, and others as visitors in a foreign domain? Give me a break please everybody.
 

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