I imagine that a hefty number of humanities students or teachers have sat around the Thanksgiving table and had to suffer a cousin, aunt, or uncle ask, "What are you going to do with (insert humanity)?
In different times, I've given different answers. The answers changed with my mood and my understanding of education and what I was studying. And in the aunt, cousin, or uncle's defense, if they went to college, it was probably as a stepping stone to some remunerative job. I studied philosophy, and when the wizened relative asks, I say either,
1) Be 2) Think well 3) Be the kind of person you want to speak with. You could go pass the time with those engineers over there, but you like talking to me, and that's because I've studied philosophy. ______ Personally, a few years ago the question cost me a girl. I was in the midst of an intensive Ancient Greek seminar, stressed about it. I was eating with her family when my ex's sister-in-law asked why I studied Greek. I could have given one of two answers, "Philosophy PhD programs generally require that I can read at least one other relevant language," or "I think that it's important. The thought of those Ancient Greeks is alive today in how we think about politics and democracy and economics."
Now I had my head full of half-learned Greek and was a bit squirrelish in disposition. I'm sure I gave off the sense that I would not ever, ever be successful at anything that would give me financial stability.
That said, what are your answers to the question: What are you going to do with that (humanities major)? As ever, extra points are given for wit and candor.
[ August 09, 2006, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
When I was pursuing my degree in religious studies, I was asked that question a lot too. My response varied depending on my mood and I answered everything from "Be better educated about one of the things that affects almost every aspect of life" to "You mean I have to 'do' something with it?"
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:3) Be the kind of person you want to speak with. You could go pass the time with those engineers over there, but you like talking to me, and that's because I've studied philosophy.
Yup. Us engineers be so ignorant, no use talking wif us. Good call.
Posted by pfresh85 (Member # 8085) on :
Actually when people ask me what I'm going to do with my History degree, I tell them honestly that I don't have a clue, because I really don't. It's why I'm stressing myself out so much thes last few months.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
You do realize that pretty much EVERYONE is asked that question, regardless of major, right?
-pH
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
What pH said.
When I was a student, studying electrical engineering conversations went like this: Person: So what do you do? Me: I'm a full-time student, and work part-time in web development. Person: So what are you studying? Me: Electrical Engineering. Person: So what do you do with that? Do you like wire houses or something?
. . . Person: Oh wait, I'm talking to an engineer when I should be talking to a philosophy major! *runs away*
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Hmm... I studied something useful with a healthy side dish of philosophy. People think I'm pretty interesting to talk to. (Annoying sometimes, but that has nothing to do with what I studied.) And I make money in a non-fast food related field.
Yay for useful degrees. Yay for taking humanities courses along the way.
Pix
Posted by Chanie (Member # 9544) on :
People don't ask computer science majors. They just assume that we are going to help them use Excel and figure out why Windows just crashed on them.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I am taking a class called, "Intro to Geographical Systems" purely because you can get certified in using some software that maps geographical systems and there are a good number of jobs that pay well that need people who are certified in the software.
I have taken a ton of humanities courses that do not go towards my Political Science major but hey, I wanted to know about what the class was teaching.
Only fate can tell if I have needlessly wasted my time in college or if I will see some sort of benefit from taking such a wierd mix of classes.
edit: I tell people I want to do analysis work for the government with my political science degree. Usually its in response to the question, "Oh did you pick that degree because its one of the shorter ones?"
I spent 1.5 years doing criminal justice before I gravitated towards political science LEAVE ME ALONE!
[ August 09, 2006, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: BlackBlade ]
Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
The obvious distinction is that when someone asks you what you'll do with a humanities major, they usually ask in a smarmily condescending manner, implying that the degree is useless. Whereas when you ask an engineering or business student the same question, it's more from a standpoint of ignorance, but nevertheless with the knowledge that such a degree usually brings with it ample opportunity for well-paying employment and non-academic respect. At least that has been my experience, though admittedly I'm not a (insert humanities major).
Posted by citadel (Member # 8367) on :
"Would you like a drink with that? OK, that'll be $4.74 at the first window."
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
Yes Fitz, but then they get to reply back in an equally condenscending manner and imply that they are a better person and more interesting to talk to than the engineer down the street because they studied ancient Greek thought and are therefore more valuable citizens. The engineers just want to make a quick buck by prostituting themselves to corporate America.
Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
Hey man, some of my best friends are engineers! Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
This is slightly different, but still relevant. I go to Purdue, so everyone I know is an engineer, including my roommate, and I constantly get crap about being a Political Science major and how that makes me an inferior human being. But everytime my roommate starts talking about how she doesn't see why people in Africa reproduce if they're so poor or the rest of them go off on equally absurd political philosophies (Why do we have English courses in high school? They're useless, high school should only have math and science courses.) I just remind myself that despite their engineering degrees that they're so proud of, I'm going to be in a much better position to make sure their opinions don't become reality then they're going to be in to make them become reality. It's very comforting.
In reality, I'd like to be a pollster. Statistics and politics, could anything be better?
It just occured to me for the first time that I'm entering two of the three least trusted professions. Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I just remind myself that despite their engineering degrees that they're so proud of, I'm going to be in a much better position to make sure their opinions don't become reality then they're going to be in to make them become reality. It's very comforting.
I love this thead. It gives us all an opportunity to feel better than everybody else.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
Right, it's really that simple.
I stay friends with them, despite the fact that pretty much everyone of them depises me and doesn't try all that hard to hide it, because honestly, I do feel what they're doing is more useful than what I am. And honestly, I do think they're smarter than I am.
But I'm also honestly glad that they won't be making the determination that we won't teach English or the humanities in our schools. I'm honestly glad that they won't be the people deciding to stop send aid to Africa.
If the fact that I feel superior to them in this one thing, when I feel inferior to them in everything else makes me a bad person, then I don't know what I'll do.
Edit: This has been a huge issue in my personal life recently. I'm taking too much of my anger towards people who are close to me out on hatrack and I obviously can't control it. I'm going to bow out of the education threads, and maybe hatrack in general until I get my personal life under control.
I'm sorry to everyone I've insulted, it's not fair of me to extrapolate my personal experience to people I've never even met. Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I thought I had the most straight forward major and people shouldn't ask me what I'll do with it. But no, one of my favorite teacher's from elementary school just told me that going into education was one of the stupidest moves I could make and I should major in something else. My teacher tells me not to teach? Granted the school system I grew up in is having quite a few problems right now and I can see where she's coming from, but it still doesn't make sense.
Most of my relatives don't question my education major except for the uncle who's daughter also got one and can't get a job (she's not trying nearly hard enough, she just keeps renewing her contract at a daycare).
Oh blacwolve, speaking of engineers, I was in Lowe's today and saw David studying screws, but I walked down that isle 4 times and he never had moved, so I decided not to say hi and figure out if he knew me. Is he building another loft?
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
breyerchic, I get it too. Relatives and friends and acquaintances all tell me I'm stupid to be going into education. My best friend who is a teacher is behind me, but most of the people I know try to discourage me.
I try not to let it get to me, but some days I must admit it does. It makes me sad that so many people think education is a waste of a career. Who do they think is going to teach their children?
To answer the question at the start of the thread, I'm going to use my English degree to teach English, preferably in one of the semi-rural areas near my home that desperately need qualified secondary school teachers in the major subjects. I want to try my darnedest to be a positive influence on the kids I teach, like my high school English teachers were for me. I want to emphasize writing, and try to make sure that when kids leave my classroom they can write a competent essay if they're college bound and have a good grasp on proper formatting for things like cover letters and basic business writing.
You know, I'm not naive. I've lived a few years on this earth and worked more than few jobs. I know teaching isn't going to be sunshine and roses. It will be a hard job, a frustrating job, a time consuming job and one that will take a lot out of me emotionally. It's possible I may wind up hating it in a few years and move on to something else. That might happen. But I'm certain of one thing - if I don't at least try and do what I want to do, I will regret it.
Posted by Lalo (Member # 3772) on :
I have the same problem -- but I agree with it.
I'm double-majoring in biology and English, but with a C in my second semester of chemistry, it's unlikely I'll get into a good med school without unbelievably good grades throughout the rest of my college career -- including the much more difficult organic chemistry and molecular biology, among others. And I'm miserable. It's not hard stuff at all, but it just doesn't spark interest in me, and nothing I read really sticks in my mind. Last semester, I had six classes a week, all at 8:00 or 8:30 AM, and rarely had time to eat, or sleep, or do anything but study the same damn lines over and over, waiting for them to register for the impending quiz every other freaking day.
For this, I think I might drop biology and just focus on humanities. I'm guaranteed something near straight A's, and the next three years probably won't have the slightest degree of stress that biology offered. Thing is, I know it's a fairly useless degree. I have utmost respect for engineers and scientists and math majors, and most of my friends are students majoring in useful fields. I like that chemistry is full of dark skin and slanted eyes and hard work -- and I've had too many humanities courses to mistake most of their students as anything more than spoiled nancies, taking fluffy subjects because they don't have the grit or the brains to take real courses. (Though, of course, I can still comfort myself with the knowledge that I'm not a communications or business major.)
I just... don't like these people. I wonder if this borders on racism, but humanities majors almost universally encompass either effeminate fluffiness or pink-shirt-with-popped-collar frat drunkenness. They're usually spoiled white children (and the occasional incompetent from other races), and demand expensive toys from mommy and daddy every Christmas. My roommate last year got a new X-Box 360 for Christmas, and cared for it as much as he did his growing alcoholism.
It horrifies me that I might join these ranks. My friends are all science/engineering/math/programming majors, and are the most down-to-earth and funny people I know. I don't want the pretension and pomp of humanities, and I'm disgusted with myself for being so miserable with science. I wish I'd prepared myself in high school.
Ugh. Rant over. If I do wind up being a pure English major, I'll probably go into either teaching or law, or some other option that hasn't yet presented itself. I have a friend whose godmother works at a prestigious law firm in NYC, and he's promised to try to set me up with an internship there. And there are worse careers than teaching the greats of American literature for the rest of my life -- I honestly think I'd be happy doing that.
But I'm always going to be disappointed in myself for not curing cancer or designing a better battery or revolutionizing nuclear fusion. These are the interesting subjects, and I'll always wonder what might have been if I'd studied redox rxns more carefully.
Posted by Kristen (Member # 9200) on :
As a Linguistics major, not only did I get the inevitable "what are you going to do with your degree" question, but half the time I had to explain exactly what my major was and that it wasn't just about learning cool languages. My boyfriend majored in Geography, so pretty much every time he tells people his area of study he gets that question.
Most of the time, I never really thought of manner of the question as condescending--I think people were genuinely curious about why I wanted to study the science of language and what I could do with it. I think we tend to interpret it wrong because of our own insecurities about not having the kind of job security and direction that others in the hard sciences do.
I often ask my fellow Humanities majors what they want to do with their degree--it's interesting to see the paths they want to take!
Lalo: I know some English majors who worked really hard and got great scholarships to graduate/law school and landed good jobs in publishing. Yes, there is pomp and critical theory, but it CAN be practical if you want it to be.
Posted by Edgehopper (Member # 1716) on :
All of my engineering friends ended up either in another field or engineering grad school--we didn't get jobs either. That's what we get for doing engineering at an Ivy. Specifically, my immediate group of 4 friends (including me) ended up:
In law school (me) As a financial analyst At UPenn grad school In the Air Force
quote:This has been a huge issue in my personal life recently. I'm taking too much of my anger towards people who are close to me out on hatrack and I obviously can't control it. I'm going to bow out of the education threads, and maybe hatrack in general until I get my personal life under control.
Aw...don't leave us! But anyways...humanities majors at my school were the ones I had to hope wouldn't end up making policy. This description of Princeton is about right:
He kept thinking, the first couple of semesters, that maybe his attitude toward them was just as short-sighted and bigoted and wrong as theirs was of him. But in class after class, seminar after seminar, he learned that far too many students were determined to remain ignorant of any real-world data that didn't fit their preconceived notions. And even those who tried to remain genuinely open-minded simply did not realize the magnitude of the lies they had been told about history, about values, about religion, about everything. So they took the facts of history and averaged them with the dogmas of the leftist university professors and thought that the truth lay somewhere in the middle.
In particular, those of us who had done anything with economics or science were amazed at the silly policies pure literary-type majors were suggesting. There were rare exceptions, but I'd generally prefer having Princeton engineers in charge than Princeton humanities majors.
Of course, it may just be the "not going along with the pack factor," which would make Purdue polisci majors more interesting than Purdue engineers as well.
quote:If I do wind up being a pure English major, I'll probably go into either teaching or law, or some other option that hasn't yet presented itself. I have a friend whose godmother works at a prestigious law firm in NYC, and he's promised to try to set me up with an internship there.
Have you looked at the hard humanities, such as economics or psychology? They tend to be a little more grounded in sanity, though they also tend to be more pompous than the average drunken frat boy. You can go into law from any major, so don't base your choice of major on that (unless you want to do patent law, but you probably don't.)
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Lalo, my husband wasted a lot of time trying to pass classes that made him miserable, with an eye on vet school.
Since he gave up and started working toward his degree in Accounting, which he discovered along the way he loves, he's much happier.
He's still a little wistful about his dream of being a vet. But he's accepted that it's not going to be, and he's excited about his new possibilities as an accountant.
Posted by Heffaji (Member # 3669) on :
At the moment I'm going for a major in Informatics, so I don't even get the question of what I'm going to do with the degree. It all stops at what the degree is even comprised of.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Yep, that's the fun part of an Informatics major. What courses are you taking this fall?
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Isn't informatics the science of reading webcomics all day? (Maybe I should go back to school...)
Posted by Edgehopper (Member # 1716) on :
quote:Isn't informatics the science of reading webcomics all day?
I have a friend who did that for his senior thesis in Economics...well, more than just reading them Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
*chuckle*
No, though one could certainly do research on webcomics; its something I've contemplated.
Broadly, Informatics is currently considered thinking about how technology, people, and other disciplines interact. There are two general classifications of Informatics, though the border is blurred: Social Informatics and Science Informatics. The former is mainly concerned with the people part of the equation, while latter tends to focus on how technology can be used within a scientific field (such as genetic analysis tools in bioinformatics). Discplines like computer security and interaction design seem to exist on both sides of this divide, however.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Haven't there been enough articles in the newspaper that at least 80 percent of Bloomignton knows what Informatics is? I guess Heffaji isn't from here though and might have relatives that are confused.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
Be a professor of medieval studies. Do research and work in the area of medieval theology/philosophy. Train myself to think, and think well. Inspire young students to find this lesser-known major field, and help them discover the joy and passion in their field most medievalists share. Give instruction, guidance, a listening ear, and the occasional free meal to those students and encourage them to reach for their dreams. Be to those students the spark of inspiration that my professor was to me.
I don't understand the huge rivalry between faculties. Engineers and mathies and people in science or health work hard, and make fun of artsies. But I've only ever seen one in a senior Latin class, and the hours demanded in that are comparable to what's demanded in any engineering class. (At least where I went to school.) I love my mathie friends, and my engineering friends. I love my medievalists. When we all get together, everyone has something to share and something to learn. It's fun.
[ August 09, 2006, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: Eaquae Legit ]
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:3) Be the kind of person you want to speak with. You could go pass the time with those engineers over there, but you like talking to me, and that's because I've studied philosophy.
Well, y'know, I think the hard-science types here could give you a run for your money in discussing ethics, social politics, or literature. In fact, I've seen it happen. But you are completely lost when it comes to programming, stress analysis, or quantum mechanics. So - what was your point?
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote: but humanities majors almost universally encompass either effeminate fluffiness or pink-shirt-with-popped-collar frat drunkenness.
This isn't the case at my school at all. People tend to be divided by college rather than subject, at least at the undergraduate level. I think that if universities start to create these lines that it becomes hard to break out of them, because anyone who doesn't fit the type (like you, for example) feels discouraged from joining the ranks of people they don't mesh well with.
However, there is a certain amount of visible race division between science and arts at my University. Humanities and Social Science students are 75% (ish?) white. Sciences are predominantly what is called at our school "brown" because it encompasses whoever's not white.
Political Science, Sociology and History occupy the middle ground.
It's a sad quirk.
quote:"What are you going to do with (insert humanity)?
Until recently, I was an fluffy effeminate ( ) English student. I took English because learning about books in a deeper way than just my usual level of reading them was really helping me with writing (which is my major interest).
However, I realised this year that English was really getting me down. Basically, I was bored. I think the English program at my University has something to answer for this- I think it's a program that leaves a lot to be desired. (Note to people who control majors and things at Universities: If the one required course in the major is a total Waste of Time, then no one's particularly going to want to take your major. Sigh.)
Anyway, in light of this fact, I switched to History. So, still in the whole Humanities thing. I often get the what-the-is-that-kind-of-career question. Often from my father.
Anyway, when more random people ask me what I want to do with what I'm supposedly learning at university I laugh stupidly and say "I have absolutely no idea." Yep, I fulfill the fluffy effeminate ( ) idiot-at-university stereotype.
But no one wants to hear the truth, that do they? 'Cause every Humanities Student wants to write.
I guess the short, less career-oriented answer of it is I'm using my major to expand and deepen my knowledge of the world around me. In other words, I'm a knowledge knerd who likes knowing for the sake of knowing.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
KoM,
They can have programming, stress analysis, and quantum mechanics. As I'm not dead yet, I have more to learn about ethics and literature.
_____ As to "social politics," I'm not sure what that is. Social is Latin connoting an aggregate of numerically distinct entities, brought together for some purpose, there are economic overtones, as if we should pledge to protect the goods of mankind.
Whereas a polity is Greek with the sense of one people, inextricable with the idea of worshipping one pantheon.
UN is a society of nations. I'm not sure if the United States is a polity or a society. The name, "United States," seems to signify a society. But I'm still not sure. I think the answer may depend on whether and what kind of moral bond exists between the states. If we are only the United States as a kind of cartel to expedite trade between the states and ensure security for our business enterprises, then we are a society. If we are polity, as maybe we were during the civil rights movement or the day after 9/11, then we have questions of national character to address.
______ Ludosti, nice answers.
[ August 09, 2006, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
You need to have wads of cash stuffed in your pockets, just for this sort of occasion.
Then, when they ask you why, you reach in and pull out handfuls of bills, perhaps interlaced with a little bit of dangly bling.
An intense stare is to be followed by "Do you even know how much money there is in classical studies??"
*or whatever your major is, go wild -- basketweaving, wire art, art history ..
It's a testament to the priorities of our society that making tons of cash is the universal means by which one can excuse your degree.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
quote:KoM,
They can have programming, stress analysis, and quantum mechanics. As I'm not dead yet, I have more to learn about with ethics and literature.
Well, that's sort of the point. They know as much as you about your area of interest; they also know a lot more. What does that make you? (Hint : The answer is not "well informed".)
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
Too busy to worry about them, and too ignorant about ethics and literature.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Wrong. The correct answer is "arrogant as well as ignorant". It does not occur to you that perhaps you might learn something about ethics from learning about a different subject? It is always the unexpected, oblique approach that gives the greatest results.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
You know, I never have found a college that offers a degree in underwater basketweaving.
And believe me, I looked!
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
rivka, IU's only is out of water, but they have underwater stained glass.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Kristen, I'm taking two linguistics courses this semester, and really looking forward to it. There was a time I wanted to major in linguistics. Now, I think I'm going the professional writing track. Unfortunately my school doesn't offer that many linguistics courses per semester and I might not be able to finish the major requirements in the time I've got left.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
You know what I'm gonna do with my degree? Go to grad school! Hooray for putting off the real world a little longer.
I don't think there's anything wrong with getting a degree that may not be the best for making a lot of money. People should do what they're passionate about when they're in college. I'm in engineering because I love science and math and solving problems, not because I want to be rich. I think it would be pretty stupid to do engineering just for the money. However, it is nice to know that I'll be able to support a husband and kids someday should I need to. I don't see anything wrong with that.
Most engineers and scientists I know feel the same way. They're excited about their work, and they're full of interesting ideas. They're not slogging through courses they hate just for money. Additionally, they're perfectly competent when it comes to philosophical discussions.
Actually, I'm quite concerned about the lack of scientific competency in the general public--you must understand some scientific principles in order to be able to make informed decisions about embryonic stem cells or global warming or evolution vs. creation. How can you be a responsible member of a technologically advanced democracy without a basic grasp of science?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shigosei: How can you be a responsible member of a technologically advanced democracy without a basic grasp of science?
Hear, hear!
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Shigosei, my engineer boyfriend is like that - really excited about his work. He'll babble on and on about something or other all cheerful...it's cute; I'm happy for him. And he likes it when I ask questions so that he can explain. I don't know how anyone could go through an engineering degree if he/she didn't love it.
I'm going to grad school, too. Hooray for avoiding the real world!
-pH
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I don't know how anyone could go through an engineering degree if he/she didn't love it.
I knew a few who punched through even though they didn't.
Posted by Heffaji (Member # 3669) on :
quote:Originally posted by breyerchic04: Haven't there been enough articles in the newspaper that at least 80 percent of Bloomignton knows what Informatics is? I guess Heffaji isn't from here though and might have relatives that are confused.
Well, I am from the Chicago area so that explains it. Still, I've found that a large amount of people on campus have no idea of what it is beyond being computer-related.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
They must be miserable.
-pH
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
Most advanced philosophy that I know of is significantly advanced by a good understanding of science and mathematics. Heck, science and mathematics is basically philosophy.
There's also something about people who know how to actually build things. I find people who can make things with their hands to be, on average, less full of BS than people who can't. The people I know who know that at some point, the rubber's going to need to meet the road tend towards having more solid foundations for many of their ideas. This is by no means an absolute thing, but it is noticable to me.
---
Lalo, I had sort of the same problem moving from my comp sci classes to my psych ones. Psych's a very easy major at UPenn, so it's the biggest and attracts a whole lot of people who are just filling time till they get their degree.
But that's not the whole story. There was a core of people who were very smart and very serious about what they were doing. It's probably like that where you are too. Look for the people who are working much harder than they have to just get A's in the course, for the ones who stay after class and are not just grade grubbing. There are some really sharp people in the humanities, but they can get lost in the shuffle.
edit: to add negation. I do forget my negation.
Oh, and also, if it makes you feel any better Lalo, it's highly unlikely you were going to be curing cancer or any of the other stuff even if you became a doctor. If you've got something that great in you, it'll come out in the field you're working in, and it's much more likely to come out if you're in a field that actually works for you.
[ August 10, 2006, 12:18 AM: Message edited by: MrSquicky ]
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Lalo, with an attitude like that it wouldn't matter what you would study. Regardless of major, you would always be an ass.
I for one am glad I won't have to put up with another condescending attitude from yet another doctor who thinks he is better than everyone else.
You have the attitude down....too bad you couldn't cut it otherwise.
It is great to have high goals for yourself.
It isn't great to state that every person who studies a subject YOU find simple is a fluff filled moron on a trust fund.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
There also appear to be a large ammount of people on that campus who think you choose IU for the parties.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
That's so true, Shigosei. When people ask me why I'm in medieval studies, I usually end up shrugging a bit awkwardly and giving them a goofy grin. "Because I love it."
Also, I agree that it's important to have that basic grasp of science. Vitally important.
But we also need to have a grasp of the past so we don't lose sight of ourselves. And I am not made to be a scientist, but I can contribute to helping us not repeat the past.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
quote:Most advanced philosophy that I know of is significantly advanced by a good understanding of science and mathematics. Heck, science and mathematics is basically philosophy.
I was thinking about just that about a week ago while out with my boyfriend and a friend of his. All three of us are either current or one-time philosophy students. The main difference being that they were both fans of existentialism while I enjoy philosophy more for its logical and analytical value. A few years ago upon starting one of my science requirements, a midlevel physics class, I discovered that philosophy had awoken a scientific wonder that I had not had since I was a child. It was philosophy that helped me better understand how my thought process worked. My pattern of thought and why I enjoy algebra and physics but cannot stand ecology or take issue with about half my history courses...these are all things that studying philosophy has helped me understand about myself.
My view of philosophy is probably much more pragmatic than those of my classmates. I have alot of difficulty keep straight all the names of philosophers and their schools of thought, mostly because I'm so caught up in understanding how they got from point A to point Q. Plato, I'm convinced, skips atlesat three letters in the alphabet.
I started out as an English major, much to the joy of my parents who envisioned a future for me discovering either the next JK Rowling or running an independent bookstore. I became frustrated VERY QUICKLY by all the theory and the bad habit of students and professors alike to reading with a bias as big as billboard.
I still hope to maybe go into publishing one day. Thanks to my college's liberal arts program, I consider myself well-read which is big benefit. More importantly, I think of philosophy as a skill, a way of training the mind to think.
The other thread might take issue with this, but I really do see a college degree as a piece of paper proving that I'm not an idiot and can complete slightly complicated tasks. Maybe its odd, but philosophy seems to be the most "real world" useful course of study that I've experienced so far. (not to speak ill of any other major. I would just not be productive as in chemistry, the subject makes my brain melt much like the table I dropped a solution on in 10th grade. I'm in awe of chemists everywhere.)
Shanna
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
quote:More importantly, I think of philosophy as a skill, a way of training the mind to think.
I think this is kind of true, but I don't think philosophy as it is taught encompasses all the "thinking training" that people should have. From what I understand, philosophy students/grads tend on average to make many more of a certain type of pretty basic logical errors than people who have had a couple of semesters of statistics.
Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
No doubt. Not sure which "certain type" you're referring to but I can vouch that at that very same night out during a debate on relativism, the errors and fallacies were flying. I would have ripped my hair out while listening if I hadn't been laughing so hard.
However, the sad fact remains that I know I would do poorly in statistics. My brain doesn't do that kind of math. They had a brief meeting in high school and didn't get along.
My boyfriend loves to make light of "gifted disease" which run rampant in our small liberal arts college. My graduating class with the average expectant size encompasses 25 semi-specialists in 25 different studies in the sciences and humanities. And yet, we daily say and do some of the stupidest things. I've seen people conquer classes in Ancient Greek economy who still can't spell "bargain."
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
One of the classic examples is explaining why so many "Rookies of the Year" have a less than stellar second year.
Have you tried approaching statistics from a combinatorial mathematics/probability angle? I hated the way I was taught statistics (I had to take stat for Psych and Business), so I got myself I book that hit probability theory first so that I actually understand where the numbers and tables come from. Now, no worries. This might not work for you, but it's a different angle at least.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
I studied philosophy and economics as my majors, so I've gotten that question before. Often, the answer goes something like this.
"So, what are you going to do with that?" "This."
And that is usually pretty accurate, because for "this" you can substitute almost any activity I do (analyze data at work, play basketball, talk with friends, come up with new ideas in meetings, etc.) and it is probably correct to say I am using my education in it. I certainly use some of what I learned in philosophy and economics to answer the question "So what are you going to do with that?" It's a question that depends fundamentally on the things those fields study - thinking, valuing, and making choices.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
I have degrees in Psychobiology and Experimental Psychology. In casual conversations, the "Psychology" part of it is all that anyone ever seems to hear. Usually the conversation turns awkward and the person asks whether I am studying them or not. I generally try to steer the conversation around to rats and pigeons, but people don't seem to be that interested in those topics.
My advisor said the best response is to just go with the flow -- pretend you spend your days helping people to mental health and talk about how satisfying that is as a career.
I have the exact same degree from the exact same university as Dr. Joyce Brothers. I figure I know at least as much as she does about human personality.
Lately, I just analyze people's ice cream choices.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I've never had anyone ask what I was going to do with my degree. I generally got "Ooohhh...boring. Glad it's not me." or, when I explain a little more, "Ooh, cool. I didn't know people did that."
Posted by Fyfe (Member # 937) on :
I get this:
Person: Oh, so you're going to teach? Me: HELL no. [Really. No. Me teaching would be like this: You don't get it? WHAT DO YOU MEAN, YOU DON'T GET IT? YOU HAVE UNTIL THE TIME I COME BACK WITH BRICKS TO HIT YOU WITH TO GET IT.] Person: Oh. Me: Yup. Person: So like what are you going to do? Me, if I'm feeling cheerful with the world: Maybe write a biography of Oscar Wilde? Person: *totally blankest stare ever*
Then if I want to salvage the situation I explain how I can count quite high and say "I have no hair" in Mandarin, and how I can say a few words of Arabic and if all else fails I will perfect my grasp of these languages and become an incredibly rich interpreter, and this has never ever failed to make the other person relieved.
What is it about money? I get so tired of defending my English major. I'm doing it because I love it, and I love the professors I've had, and I love doing research. So that's why.
Jen
P.S. I am going to do research at the Bodleian next year! Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bob_Scopatz: Lately, I just analyze people's ice cream choices.
Nuh-uh. Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
As someone who majored in something very practical (computer science) and who is making a pretty healthy amount of money for a 24 year old because I chose that major, I must admit that the very first thing that pops into my head is "what sort of job do they plan on doing with that" when I hear about a degree.
See, besides those of us who have family money (which I'd assume is very few of us) we all are going to need to work after college. Usually right after college. A large number of us have thousands of dollars of student loans when we graduate.
I myself have 13,000 dollars of student loans, and even making 60 grand a year, that is not going to be very easy to pay off.
Even with my practical degree, it took me over a year to find a decent job which I could support myself with.
It sucked, it was awful, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
So when someone says they are majoring in a "soft" field such as philosophy, I can't help but think that they may have a very hard time finding a job after college.
Now I could be way off in my judgement of their job prospects. If I don't know much about the field, I may just be ignorant of the benefits of such a degree in the job market. So perhaps I will *gasp* ask.
"What are you majoring in?"
"<non-practical major>"
"What sort of job are you looking to do after college with that degree?"
"Actually, you'd be surprised at how marketable a <non-practical major> degree is, as recruiters from <career field 1> and <career field 2> recognize its worth. You might be interested to know that it even helps people get jobs in <career field 3>."
I've actually had a few exchanges go that way. Most people actually have a very good answer to the question.
If someone were to answer:
"I have no plans for a career after college, I am studying <non-practical major> for the sake of learning."
Then I would both admire their courage and integrity, and be worried about their prospects. Not that I would worry much, because of course it is none of my business .
Making a living in this world is TOUGH. If someone spends four years of their life racking up debts and then is exactly as little qualified for any job as they were before college, then it seems like it would be that much tougher on them. If you are willing to accept that, then more power to you, and I respect that.
However, I've seen at least one case of someone on this board having a four year degree in a non-practical field, and having a very difficult time finding work above non-skilled labor. There is nothing inherently bad about this, except when the poster felt like they were entitled to a better job because they had that college degree. There's nothing magical about that piece of paper, if you learned nothing which a company is willing to pay you for, they won't want to pay you.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Why do hatrackers have to insult one another? I'd like to suggest that we stop doing that. Just replace all sentences that call a person arrogant, an ass, etc. etc. with sentences that describe the merits and flaws of ideas. It's quite easy, it's a great benefit to the level of discourse, and it's a very good habit to learn. May I respectfully urge everyone to give that posting method a try?
Posted by Kasie H (Member # 2120) on :
My degree, international relations, is kind of a weird hybrid between the sciences and the philosophies. It's philosophy in that a lot of the basic courses are worldview philosophy classes - i.e. how each side explains the world based on a certain set of theories and beliefs about power and other such things.
But the upper level courses really prepare you to be a professional in the field - i.e. be an intelligence analyst at the CIA, or a diplomat at the State Department, or someone who figures out which African country needs what money and how best to give it to them. Or someone who solves practical world health problems - not developing the vaccine, but figuring out the best way to get it to the millions who will need it.
For me, there was never a question about what I was going to do with my degree after college - I spent more time working while I was in school than I did taking classes, or at least it seems that way. I was going to write, and eventually I'd like to write about the subject that I studied in college.
But frankly, you can take almost any undergraduate degree and go into journalism. You used to be able to take *no* college degree and go into journalism. Not so much anymore, but still. Medical writers often have medical degrees, science writers, science degrees. I wish more science majors would go into journalism, there's been some interesting studies done recently about the lack of solid science stories in the mainstream press due to editors who find it uninteresting simply because you they don't understand it.
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) English student. I took English because learning about books in a deeper way than just my usual level of reading them was really helping me with writing (which is my major interest).![[Party]](graemlins/party.gif)
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