Ya know... I wish there was a god... but if it's the one Mr Phelps prays to, I think I'm glad there's not one.
Isn't he really old? shouldn't he be dead of natural causes soon?
Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
His daughters will just be taking over for him. They are as nutty as he is, if not more so.
Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Pixiest: Ya know... I wish there was a god... but if it's the one Mr Phelps prays to, I think I'm glad there's not one.
Isn't he really old? shouldn't he be dead of natural causes soon?
Yeah, I feel ya there, Pixiest. Oi!
As Stephan said, his daughters are already beginning to take over the church for him. They're the ones who do all the interviews and whatnot. They're every bit as scary as he is.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I'm still not sure how Phelps has managed to avoid being committed for his own good.
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
I'm sure the Patriot Riders will make an appearance. They can't do anything about the signs, but at least they'll drown on the noise of Phelp's group chants. Is long past time this group drank teh Kool-Aid.
Posted by Ngogwakuni (Member # 9737) on :
Fred Phelps must be pure evil. He sounds alot like Ralph Ovadal, who is a very evil man who lives in my area. Mr.Ovadal is the pastor of a hate group that is opposed to abortion and homosexuality. he is expecially opposed to catholicism, and he believes that it is not christianity and that is is a sin to consider it christianity. his website is WWW.pccmonroe.org, if you want to find out about his insanity. he calls himself a christian, but he acts in a very unchristian manner. It is terrible that fred phelps is taking delight in death, i think he's insane. i hope he gets stung by 10,000 wasps. i hope he dies soon, natural causes or not. preferably in a painful way.
by the way, The Pixiest, how do you know there's not a god?
Posted by Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy (Member # 9384) on :
Fred Phelps exists to be the one thing everyone in the U.S. can come together in the spirit of love to hate.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
ngog: For 100% certain? I don't. But the concept is sufficiently implausible(*) that I can't believe no matter how much I would like to.
(*) I realize some people don't think it's implausible. I'm happy for you if you're one of these people.
Pix
Posted by Mig (Member # 9284) on :
I doubt that anyone who dislikes this idiot would ever do this, but there would be a pleasant sort of irony if someone decided to protest agaisnt his church at the funeral of someone he loves.
Posted by Morydd (Member # 5004) on :
Whenever Phelps dies, I think it'd be appropriate for anyone who's able to line the entire route from his home to his chruch to his grave and make as much noise as possible.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
When you act like an ass toward an ass, you're still acting like an ass.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Tom, nobody wants to take him.
Posted by docmagik (Member # 1131) on :
I think nobody wants to write the report completely outlining his psychosis. They have better things to do with the entire rest of their life.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
You know, I'd figure the Amish families just wouldn't announce when the funerals were going to be. Then those twits wouldn't have any idea when to show up.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Actually, according to NPR yesterday, the Amish don't hold their funerals in, like, a funeral home or anything. The funerals are typically held in a home or a large building, such as a barn.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I seriously question if he really believes his own rhetoric.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
quote: The Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan., planned to boycott funerals for the victims Thursday and Friday but later canceled the protests in exchange for media airtime. The church claims on its Web site that the shooting spree was carried out by a "mad man" in retribution for Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell's "blasphemous sins against WBC." The site says Rendell "slandered and mocked and ridiculed and condemned Westboro Baptist Church on national Fox TV" and that he "revealed a conspiracy to employ the State's police powers to destroy WBC in order to silence WBC's Gospel message."
So they are going to pacify him with media time to keep him away...
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Don't they know they shouldn't feed strays?
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
I'm glad there isn't anybody like that who lives near me.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Chef's Mom: Oh, Lordy, I thought if I gave 'em 3:50 of airtime they'd go away! Chef's Dad: Woman, now they'll just keep comin back for more!
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
As annoyed as I am that they had to give this jerk air time, I'm glad they won't be protesting the funerals. No family needs that when they're trying to say goodbye to a loved one.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
From what I understand of Amish funerals, they're typically held in the home or on the property of the family of the deceased. So couldn't the Phelpites be arrested for trespassing if they intrude on an Amish funeral at a home?
Also, aren't they against embalming, and have the funeral within 24 hours? So they'd probably have had the funerals faster than the Phelpites could find out where (I hope.)
Edited to change tense because I just read that they won't be. Dratted fast typists! Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
I can't wait for the day when some pissed off family hands him his head after he protests their funeral. I don't care how old he is, he needs to get beat up...badly. Maybe then he'll stop.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I agree that protesting Phelps's funeral would be tacky and probably unproductive.
Is there any chance it would make his daughter sit up and say, "My God, is that what we've been doing to people all these years?"
Probably not, I guess.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick: I can't wait for the day when some pissed off family hands him his head after he protests their funeral. I don't care how old he is, he needs to get beat up...badly. Maybe then he'll stop.
Yeah right, because we don't know any better ways to solve problems than violence. I often wonder whether the average American understands anything but violence.
I have though many times that if the media would stop reporting the antics of this nut job, he would quickly tire of the activity and go home.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
He does yell awful loud Rabbit.
If I had money I'd offer to build sound proof paneling over the barn or wherever they hold the funeral. Its not electronic, it should be ok.
Would it be legal to walk up and stand in his face? Just not do anything but stand in his face so that he would have to yell through me? Is there a law against invading personal space?
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
You might have hearing problems for a couple of days but go ahead.
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
"Yeah right, because we don't know any better ways to solve problems than violence."
With him? No, the only way he'll stop is if he's scared to continue. The law doesn't seem to be able to do anything. And personally I just think he deserves to get some punishment for all of the things he did to people mourning over their lost ones.
Posted by airmanfour (Member # 6111) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit:
quote:Originally posted by GaalDornick: I can't wait for the day when some pissed off family hands him his head after he protests their funeral. I don't care how old he is, he needs to get beat up...badly. Maybe then he'll stop.
Yeah right, because we don't know any better ways to solve problems than violence. I often wonder whether the average American understands anything but violence.
I have though many times that if the media would stop reporting the antics of this nut job, he would quickly tire of the activity and go home.
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." -Salvor Hardin
Yeah, I went there. I don't believe it, but it seemed to fit.
Posted by Stan the man (Member # 6249) on :
I really, just don't like this guy. Too bad it's not legal for me to practice with my police baton on him. 26" baton finally showed up today. Yay!
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
""Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." -Salvor Hardin
Yeah, I went there. I don't believe it, but it seemed to fit."
I am now going to bow out of this thread. You quote Foundation on me? Do you seen my SN? Posted by airmanfour (Member # 6111) on :
C'mon, it was perfect and you know it.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
I can't help but feel frustrated when I hear things like, "I wonder if the average American understands anything but violence." It apparently implies that this is, somehow, a uniquely American problem.
Violence would not, unfortunately, solve the problem of Fred Phelps. If there were a chance it would, though, to be honest...I'd probably be for it.
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
Violence is something that every human being experiences and knows so yeah saying that this is just an American problem is a pretty blind statement.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I hope that every gay and lesbian organization in the country comes out to picket his funeral when he finally kicks the proverbial bucket.
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
I didn't even know this dude existed until I saw the topic here.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Yes, it would be. Foro the record, I don't think Rabbit said it was just an American problem. It was the implication that can exist in that statement.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I was just reading a story that said that gestures of forgiveness have already been extended from the Amish community, including the grandfather of two of the little girls who died, toward the shooter and his family.
Wow is all I can say.
I think that if Fred Phelps and the Phelpsites showed up, they'd probably be politely ignored.
Posted by Nell Gwyn (Member # 8291) on :
Fred Phelps makes me indescribably angry. Posted by andi330 (Member # 8572) on :
quote:Gov. Ed Rendell -- speaking and acting in his official capacity to bind the State of Pennsylvania -- slandered and mocked and ridiculed and condemned Westboro Baptist Church on national Fox TV.
Ummmm...I'm pretty sure that God doesn't work that way. I mean, even if you go back to God in the Old Testament (who reads a lot meaner than God in the New Testament) I'm pretty sure that it was visiting the sins of the fathers on the sons, to the third and fourth generation. Not visiting the sins of a person on a group of totally random people who had nothing to do with it.
Maybe Fred uses his own personal translation of the Bible. I bet he left out verses like "Judge not lest ye be judged," and "Remove the log from your own eye before removing the speck from another's."
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Yeah, I heard a bit about that on the same report I learned about funerary traditions from, KQ.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
quote:Originally posted by Storm Saxon: Fred Phelps exists to be the one thing everyone in the U.S. can come together in the spirit of love to hate.
Amen, Brother Storm!
I hesitate to quote the following,... but I guess I will. Phelps and his daughters and followers are evil. Insane and evil.
quote: But she [Shirley Phelps-Roper, the daughter of Rev. Phelps] defended the church's initial decision to protest at the Amish girls' funerals.
"Those Amish people, everyone is sitting around talking about those poor little girls — blah, blah, blah — they brought the wrath upon themselves," Phelps-Roper said, adding that the Amish "don't serve God, they serve themselves."
If there actually existed such a god as desribed by Phelp's 'church' I'd take my chances in hell.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
How about a nice, loud choir? That'd drown them out and provide something nice to listen to.
I mean, really, motorcycles are pretty effing tacky.
Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
Maybe so, but you didn't see anyone else out there willing to stand up to them do you?
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Actually I think we missed a great opportunity here. And I think everyone's anger and thoughts of violence do as much harm to the Amish sentiments as Phelps mania.
The Amish are a peaceful, loving, non-violent religion who have mastered the arts of non-violent protest and loving neighbors no matter how loathsome. I would love to see the "confrontation" between Phelp's screams and rhetoric, and the Amish community. If they could not overcome his ingrained hatred and closed mind, they would simply turn a deaf ear to his rantings.
There is little Phelps fears, accept people turning a deaf ear to his rantings.
But when we step up to protect our "innocent Amish" with violence, or more screams, then we challenge their beliefs as much as Phelps ever could.
They wish to be left alone, not attacked, but not defended either.
Posted by Jhai (Member # 5633) on :
One of our Regional Ethics Bowl cases (think debate for philosophy nerds) is on Fred Phelps. You can read the case (it's number 5) here. Our team hasn't come to a conclusion yet on how we want to address the issues presented by his protesting, but I think we're leaning towards saying that he has a right to picket, at least at national cemeteries. Fred Phelps is a horrible guy, but I can think of cases where I would ardently defend the right to protest at funerals, and so the general rule needs to be one that will protect this right, even if it lets scumbags like Phelps also protest.
For example if a person who had committed horrible crimes while in the military (say baby-killing in Iraq) were somehow to be given the right to be buried in a national cemetery for soldiers, then I think the burial should be protested, especially as it is taking place, as it is simply wrong to bury such a person with our honored dead.
On the other hand, I would encourage the families that are burying their dead in private cemeteries to have on hand during a burial someone who has either ownership or some sort of authority over the cemetery if they're afraid Phelps will show up. And that person has the perfect right to boot the protestors out of the cemetery onto the closest public area or road. I also encourage counter-protests, such as the motorcycle veterans, but they shouldn't be given any more or any less rights of access than Phelps.
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
I hope that every gay and lesbian organization in the country comes out to picket his funeral when he finally kicks the proverbial bucket.
I think that when he dies, gay and lesbians and supporters and military families should attend the funeral in large numbers. Hundreds. Thousands. Tens of thousands. Fill the streets with the procession.
And they should be quiet, and respectful. They should say nothing besides extending their condolences to the family. No signs. No screaming. No clothing inappropriate for a funeral. No press interviews. No protests. No laughter, no partying, no exclamations of ironic divine retribution. Just silence and bowed heads.
Simply mourning the passing of a fellow human being, the way Phelps himself never could.
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
*taps nose, points at Chris*
--Enigmatic
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I hope that every gay and lesbian organization in the country comes out to picket his funeral when he finally kicks the proverbial bucket.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:The Westboro group says the Amish school girls were "killed by a madman in punishment for Gov. Ed Rendell's blasphemous sins against Westboro Baptist Church.
"Gov. Ed Rendell -- speaking and acting in his official capacity to bind the State of Pennsylvania -- slandered and mocked and ridiculed and condemned Westboro Baptist Church on national Fox TV," the group says on its website.
"Rendell also revealed a conspiracy to employ the State's police powers to destroy WBC in order to silence WBC's Gospel message. Co-conspirators identified by Rendell included state officials, citizens, lawyers, legislators and media," the website says.
Westboro Baptist Church said it is "continuing to pray for even worse punishment upon Pennsylvania."
Wow. Just freaking wow.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
I started to post the fallacies in their logic (If the governor was so evil that he deserved divine retribution, why attack girls he never knew? Evil people don't care about others.) I started to write them all out.
But it hurt my head.
(Telling the media that the media is part of a conspiracy to silence them? What?)
It hurts. Make it stop. Make it stop.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
quote: I hope that every gay and lesbian organization in the country comes out to picket his funeral when he finally kicks the proverbial bucket.
I bet his crazy church buries him in the dead of night in the middle of nowhere, just to avoid such protesters. And to ensure no one puts a stake through his heart.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Why bother?
Everyone is treating Phelps and the crazy brigade like...well like they are Phelps and the crazy brigade.
So long as that is the case, why give them any attention at all by protesting them? People protest these days for publicity. They should be given as little publicity as possible. Sating them for the sake of saving the Amish the grief of dealing with them is admirable, even honorable, besides, all it will do is basically allow P:CB (Phelps: Crazy Brigade) to show anyone who listens out radically out there they are, and rally even more support AGAINST them.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I can't even comprehend what protesters like this would have done to my wife's family had they shown up at her brothers' funeral.
This is NOT something to be ignored so it goes away. Each time they do this, they are robbing a family of something very precious: the chance to mourn, the chance to share grief and memories with friends, the chance to say goodbye. Sad, certainly, but also precious. The ritual of funeral is very important, and what these asses do causes actual harm.
I don't care how crazy this guy is, I don't think we need to allow this. We don't allow protesters to make noise outside hospitals. There's no reason not to add the same rules for cemeteries and funeral homes.
quote:"Gov. Ed Rendell -- speaking and acting in his official capacity to bind the State of Pennsylvania -- slandered and mocked and ridiculed and condemned Westboro Baptist Church on national Fox TV," the group says on its website.
I'd like to see the statutory provision that makes interviews binding on the state of Pennsylvania.
Beyond that, what is he trying to say about himself to say that blasphemy is possible against him? That's a pretty damn prideful thing to be saying.
Posted by NicholasStewart (Member # 9781) on :
I don't understand how Fred Phelps can claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ. I cannot imagine Christ making a scene at the funerals of 5 young murdered innocent girls. It doesn't jive with my understanding of things.
It frustrates me to no end when people promote hate and do evil things in the name of religion.
[ October 05, 2006, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: NicholasStewart ]
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I was under the impression that protests were either banned, or are soon to be banned from national cemetaries and military funerals, and that dozens of states were considering similar measures for regular cemetaries and funerals.
Everyone should write their STATE representatives immediately to get this issue passed quickly. Unless you want vigilantes roughing up protestors at cemetaries, the law needs to be changed.
Posted by dantesparadigm (Member # 8756) on :
I'm not sure who Fred Phelp's God is, but he's more vengeful than Inigo Montoya and has worse aim than a storm trooper.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I see no reason to ban protests at funerals. Seriously. It's enormously rude, but I don't think being rude is enough reason to criminalize something.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I don't see why they can't protest out of earshot of the mourners. We have other rules that define guidelines on WHERE we can exercise our freedom of speech. No on is saying the protesting should be banned, just moved, so far as I know.
And I think this goes beyond simple rudeness.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:I don't see why they can't protest out of earshot of the mourners.
Are graveyards private land? Presumably the landowners could enforce this on their own, without additional legislation.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
What's wrong with additional legislation?
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
This man is the type of person that makes me shudder when I read www.andoverbaptist.com, a supposed satirical site, and realize that there really are people like the ones they are making fun of.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Fred, come out of the closet.
Come on, we all know it.
No, not "that" closet. I know you are not gay. You are not homosexual. I doubt if you are heterosexual any more. Mostly, anti-sexual I would say.
No. You need to come out of the Satanist closet.
Admit it, to yourself, your friends--do you have friends?--well, to the family you've sacrificed to Baal.
Oh sure you can call yourself Christian, and a cat can call himself a Rottweiler. Doesn't make it so.
You preach Hate. You preach fear. You preach blind obeidiance or massive suffering.
Those are not Christ's words.
Those are Satans.
You quote the scriptures not to heal but to hurt. That's the work of Satan.
You live in a world of fire and brimstone. That's the home of Satan.
You take pride in youself and your personal thoughts over those of God. That's the sin of Satan.
Hey. Its ok. Your a Satanist.
Admit it. We won't think any less of you. I don't think we can think less of you. But once you admit the truth that's one less hyprocracy you are committing. Most of us will think better of you for that. Not good of you. No, not good. But not such a pathetic hypocrite.
So Fred, buddy, anti-social pal, come on out of the closet and admit it. We'll even come to an agreement. I'll let you be with your little Satanic cult, and you keep on hating me.
I know you hate me. Its no bid deal. You hate everyone. I wonder if you hate your family? I wonder if you hate yourself? I wonder if you truly hate God?
Well, if you don't you will. When you discover he isn't the Satan you make him out to be, all you'll have left is hate.
And the only hope, the thing you hate me and all those like me for, is that while all you'll have left, all that you do have left is Hate. The GOd I believe in--he still loves you.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:What's wrong with additional legislation?
Leaving aside my general principle -- that unnecessary legislation is inherently bad -- legislation intended to stop one specific "bad" behavior has often been used as precedent for some truly horrendous rulings years after the original situation has been "forgotten."
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Aren't there already precedents for moving protestors away from certain events? Such as, for example, the federal law that prohibits protesters at military funerals.
I'm sure there are other exceptions as well.
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
From what I've read of the Amish - they'd forgive him for his (in my eyes) ridiculous and totally unproductive actions and then carry on with their own peace-loving lives.
Maybe one good thing that came of this is that I (and i'm sure many others) have come to understand a bit, a little bit, more about what the Amish believe. If the words that have come out in the press are truly their feelings at this time, I'm moved. I'd find it hard to forgive so easily. I'm fairly certain I'd be bitter and mad and just plain angry for a while before I could find it in my heart to let it go and let God...
One other thing that touched me is that some feel that those girls (grts) are in a better place than those left behind.
What an idea. What a culture. What an awakening for me, that there are people who can truly believe and forgive like that. In no way do I mean that sarcastically... I just know that my own hurt would come and stay for a time longer before the forgiveness came.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Phred Felps should just be ignored. Let not his name even be spoken. That would hit him where his ego would hurt the most. All he is seeking is publicity.
I do not approve of the so-called "lifestyle choice" of homosexuality either, on the grounds that it mocks the Creator Who originally made us in His own image, and Scripture clearly characterizes such behavior as sinful. But protesting about homosexuality at the funeral of Amish schoolgirls so tragically murdered is so utterly inappropriate it is beyond contempt.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
And now for a view from the opposite of Phelp's spectrum:
quote:Dozens of Amish neighbors came out Saturday to mourn the quiet milkman who killed five of their young girls and wounded five more in a brief, unfathomable rampage.
quote:About half of perhaps 75 mourners on hand were Amish.
"It's the love, the forgiveness, the heartfelt forgiveness they have toward the family. I broke down and cried seeing it displayed," said Porter, who had come to Pennsylvania to offer what help he could. He said Marie Roberts was also touched.
From here Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
I am in awe.
Fred Phelps...who do you think better reflects God, you or those Amish mourners?
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
quote:No, not "that" closet. I know you are not gay. You are not homosexual. I doubt if you are heterosexual any more. Mostly, anti-sexual I would say.
Based on what I know of him, especially the number of children that he's fathered, it seems obvious that this is precisely the closet Phelps should have come out of. His whole life seems a textbook case: He's trying to prove to himself, God, and the rest of the world, (in that order) that he is not a homosexual. Methinks the lady doth protest WAY too much.
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![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)
I often wonder whether the average American understands anything but violence.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
You quote Foundation on me? Do you seen my SN? ![[Frown]](frown.gif)