Hi everyone, I'm a newbie, and I want to start both a discussion thread and a request for information.
It now seems likely that, the actions of a few government hardliners notwithstanding, Turkey is going to join the EU within the next ten years, becoming the first predominantly Muslim country to do so. Is this a good thing in terms of world politics ? I tend to think that if they manage to integrate successfully then yes, it is, that it would set an example for the rest of the world in what can be done, and that the process of meeting the EU's membership requirements will tend to make the citizens of bordering countries such as Syria push for more civil liberties for themselves. But, I don't know for sure. In Turkey, religion is tightly restricted. Headscarves are forbidden in all public buildings, and imams are trained by the government. Does a region which has countries whose names contain the phrase 'islamic republic' regard turkey as one of their own, or as already the odd one out in the Muslim world ? In short, does anyone there care what Turkey does ? What do you think ? Also, if anyone could recommend some nonpartisan reading material on what the arab world thinks of turkey, i'd be grateful.
[ October 27, 2006, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: multifarious ]
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I don't think it's a given that Turkey will be admitted to the EU in the next ten years, or EVER, for that matter. The last couple round of admittals were opposed lightly by many countries, and that was for countries with a lot more in common with Western Europe than Turkey.
Turkey has a LOT to do before they can be admitted. They have to clean up their act, they have to learn to play well with the Kurds, embrace religious tolerance, and they'll have to give up a degree of autonomy and accept a large degree of secularism that I don't think they are prepared to accept. And, the biggest problem for a lot of EU nations is that this would open a FLOOD of Muslim immigrants into Western Europe. I'm not sure how likely a fear like that is to come true, but I think it's valid given the somewhat flood of people that came to Western Europe when the Eastern half of Europe was admitted.
I'm not even sure I think Turkey SHOULD become apart of the EU. They aren't really a part of Europe, their culture is too far removed from the rest of Europe's, and it's really just asking for trouble. Still, if they want to try and clean up their act, and they get to a point where they can be considered for admission, more power to them, I hope they do. Turkey as a part of the EU would I think do wonders for the region.
I'm really curious to see what will happen if Iraq is partitioned and the Kurds get their own state in fact and name instead of just the reality on the ground. Turkey's violent interference would evaporate all hope of EU Membership, and which is better for their long term goals? I'm also curious as to what the Turkish vote on th EU Constitutional Referendum would have been. Will proponents of the referendum let a nation into their midst that has no intention of ever ratifying it?
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Does it say something about me that I read this thread title as thanksgiving dinner at a horse show.
Posted by multifarious (Member # 9809) on :
I was under the impression that Turkey was one of the most insistently secular states around, certainly in the public sphere. Laws against religious discrimination are determinedly enforced, and wearing religious symbols of any kind in any public building is verboten. Ataturk's vision was of a secular republic, and people seem to take that quite seriously. Certainly, Turkey has many, many flaws, but I think if anything in this area they need to become less secular. For this reason, I wonder whether the arab nations regard turkey as a nationally totally different to themselves, and thus the pull turkey might exert on a diplomatic level would be quite small ? Also, I personally don't think that geographical location should really matter. If it didn't have, um, slightly unfortunate connotations, I'd be all for renaming the EU the league of nations or something like that. I will now go and read up on the constitutional referendum (-:
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Scratch what I said before about religion, you're right. Focus on the rest.
Incidentally, a poll done by a European pollster put support for the EU, and trust in the EU both below 50%, and support for the EU Constitution was below 30%.
Not awe inspiring numbers.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
I personally like to see the ancient core of the Eastern Roman Empire returning to Europe after all these years.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
I think that Turkey will eventually bully their way into the EU through the power of their unstoppable jannisaries.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: I personally like to see the ancient core of the Eastern Roman Empire returning to Europe after all these years.
Of course at this point that's more of a geographic observation than anything else. The Hagia Sophia is a mosque, roman aquaducts were built over and are flooded underground caverns now. Other than relics, architecture, and geography (not even names anymore, Constantinople what?), it's about as much a reflection of the Eastern Roman Empire as India is part of the British Empire.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Yeah, that's true Lyrhawn... but I'm a romantic.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
Turkey should join the E.U., but only after it meets the qualifications set forth by the Copenhagen accords.
As of now, it is difficult to tell whether European xenophobia or Turkish stubbornness will be the greater obstacle for membership.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Telperion the Silver: Yeah, that's true Lyrhawn... but I'm a romantic.
Yeah so am I, especially when it comes to these things. Maybe I lament the changes made to the eastern half of the empire too much. But perhaps a reunification could change everything. Afterall the Hagia Sophia, while made into a mosque, is now really a museum, it serves neither religion, it transcends them, as a unification of cultures could do.