quote:For the record, the possibility of a romantic relationship is *always* worth risking the friendship.
Is the possibility of a romantic relationship worth the risk to the friendship?
quote:I don't agree with this principle. I'd argue that the entire point of a friendship is to be leaned on, given that you are allowed to lean back too. The trouble arises when the leaning is very disproportionately one direction.
It does make me think of this principle: don't lean. People hate being leaned on by those they perceive as needy.
quote:I had a similar reaction, although mine was more like, "She's dating someone else and doesn't know how to tell you (am4)."
Originally posted by Dead_Horse:
My first impression upon reading the message was, Oh, dear, she's dating someone else and doesn't want them to know about each other.
quote:I thought the same thing. If I was going to say something like that...it'd be because I had something bad/rejecting to say and didn't have the guts to come out and say it. Especially if she knew that you weren't going to be able to answer the phone.
Originally posted by rivka:
quote:I had a similar reaction, although mine was more like, "She's dating someone else and doesn't know how to tell you (am4)."
Originally posted by Dead_Horse:
My first impression upon reading the message was, Oh, dear, she's dating someone else and doesn't want them to know about each other.
However, even if (maybe especially if) that is true, I still think ElJay's advice is excellent.
quote:That there is the problem! All women think differently, and all men think the same.
Originally posted by Goody Scrivener:
By the way, each woman speaks their own version of Womanese... and it morphs as our lives progress. We can't always translate each other either!
quote:Not the first woman to utter those words.
Dan_Raven is such a ... a ... man!
quote:I don't expect him to read my mind, but I think if I say, "I've just been feeling so unsexy lately" that that is the equivalent of dropping a HELLO MAKE ME FEEL IRRESISTABLE anvil on his head.
Originally posted by Javert:
quote:That there is the problem! All women think differently, and all men think the same.
Originally posted by Goody Scrivener:
By the way, each woman speaks their own version of Womanese... and it morphs as our lives progress. We can't always translate each other either!
The problem is, no matter what dialect they speak, they all expect us to be able to read their minds.
quote:
if I say, "I've just been feeling so unsexy lately" that that is the equivalent of dropping a HELLO MAKE ME FEEL IRRESISTABLE anvil on [your] head.
quote:Same.
Originally posted by ElJay:
Yeah, if I were a man, I'd translate that as "I'm not in the mood, leave me the heck alone." Depending on tone and manner, of course.
quote:I generally follow the maxim that if I find myself trying to convince someone else to like me (or to stay friends), there is something else usually going on underneath the surface.
Originally posted by airmanfour:
And then a week ago we get into a chat about her personal philosophy being based around entropy and I immediately tried to counter with things that don't break down over time. I tried.
quote:This is true. And it's gotta be a very tough balancing act for men to stay in between the "You only care about the sex" and "You don't find me sexually attractive" lines.
Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:Same.
Originally posted by ElJay:
Yeah, if I were a man, I'd translate that as "I'm not in the mood, leave me the heck alone." Depending on tone and manner, of course.
I find that most socially-conscious men tend to interpret everything as conservatively as possible, so as to avoid acting on a false-positive. Society has emphasized rape, harassment, abuse and general insensitivity to the point that I almost always need a fairly straightforward response in order to act on most anything, especially if it's sexual.
Edit to change a word that suggested a viewpoint I do not hold.
quote:I know. But he didn't understand that even though my face was no longer swollen up like a football, I still felt gross. ...and like a football. A moldy football.
Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese:
Just for the record, pH, you had every right to be acting weird after your wisdom teeth surgery. I'm still having nightmares about it.
quote:There's no other guy. She's never been shy about that kind of stuff before. Girls are evil.
Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese:
quote:I generally follow the maxim that if I find myself trying to convince someone else to like me (or to stay friends), there is something else usually going on underneath the surface.
Originally posted by airmanfour:
And then a week ago we get into a chat about her personal philosophy being based around entropy and I immediately tried to counter with things that don't break down over time. I tried.
From what you wrote in the original post, it sounds like her theorizing on entropy sparked you to disagree with her (in the process of showing her that she was wrong?), which sparked her to come back with an argument about your relationship with her going kaput (showing you that you were the wrong one?). Sounds like it isn't a smooth mix. [I think one good approach might be to take her up on going cold turkey with the two of you, and then seeing how you feel about it in 1 month. Enough time for perspective.]
But, of course, this is an outside opinion from a very limited perspective.
---
PS: ElJay, that's just how I would interpret it, too.
quote:Very true.
Originally posted by pH:
Just because she hasn't been shy about it before doesn't mean she isn't being shy about it now.
quote:Listen to this advice, airman. It is good advice. Women, well they just arent smart enough to know what they're thinking when they're thinking it. They are fluffy, emotional creatures to whom the concept of reason and forthrightness is foreign. Because of this, they need to be manipulated into doing what is good for them. They secretly know this, and of course they want it. They just deny it to keep you on your toes. So yes, it's time to get sneaky and manipulative with this woman. She is obviously begging you to tell her what to think, so it's time you took her up on this invitation. After all, there are few things in this world women like more than a sneaky, manipulative caveman. It's very sexy.
Originally posted by General Sax:
Never waste time trying to anthropomorphise the weather or why women do what they do and say what they say. Just deal with the symptoms and carry on. In general the reason a woman gives you is the one she seized on to justify what she feels, what makes a woman feel as she does is as much a mystery to her as it is to you.
If you want to make her come to you ignore her, deny her your attention and she will come looking for it with a 'change of feeling' and when she comes looking make her feel significant and together and then continue to do so sparingly. She will not be able to get enough of you or do enough for you if you make that feeling continuous in your presence but hard to come by.
quote:Now, see, that makes no sense either. You feel like a football....guys love football.
Originally posted by pH:
I know. But he didn't understand that even though my face was no longer swollen up like a football, I still felt gross. ...and like a football. A moldy football.
-pH
quote:Must....resist...football....spiking...reference.....
Originally posted by Zamphyr:
quote:Now, see, that makes no sense either. You feel like a football....guys love football.
Originally posted by pH:
I know. But he didn't understand that even though my face was no longer swollen up like a football, I still felt gross. ...and like a football. A moldy football.
-pH
quote:Silly me. You're right. See, now I think Pavlov was onto this. I'm pretty sure that he was about to extend his experiments from just dogs to include women, but then he died. A shame really. We could have learned so much about the primitive workings of the female brain from that man.
Originally posted by General Sax:
Remember it is not about telling her what to do or think it about rewarding her with attention when she acts the way you want. An intermediate reward system creates the greatest amount anticipation and devotion.
quote:You must become a STEALTHY NINJA, young airman. You are a breeze, coming upon the object of your affection in the night, invisible too all, felt by none.
Originally posted by General Sax:
Any of those things could be the attention payment that you use, but you should never become too accessible, too familiar. Remember when you feel familiar to her your attention no longer has the same value. If you want to be special catch her by surprise, make her wonder, and remain a mystery.
You are at a disadvantage already because she considers you a known quantity, you will have to shake yourself up first if you want to get anywhere. It is good that you have been away from her for some time.
quote:Only his female children and colleagues, of course.
Actually B. F. Skinner did the work and used it on everyone from his children to his colleagues.
quote:That is completely untrue. And yeah, like others have said, I'm the type of person who just won't waste time on someone who plays the stupid attention game. There IS a middle ground between barnacle puppy dog and game-playing a-hole.
Originally posted by General Sax:
Flowers every day is only noticed when the flowers stop. If this steps on toes then sorry, but the advice is practical not so much romantic, romance is what happens inside the box you design.
quote:While it is not completely true, it is not completely untrue, either.
That is completely untrue.
quote:Maybe it's just me, but I found foundling's posts far more helpful than GS's. At least foundling's were funny!
Originally posted by airmanfour:
foundling - Being snarky isn't all that constructive. Do you have any suggestions you think'll work better than General Sax's? 'Cause I can see how his suggestions could offend, but at least he's trying to help.
code:It's the last time, PJ! I promise!ooooo ooooo . oooo .o .o .o oooooooooo. .o8 o. o. o.
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quote:This is why I write letters when I have something important to say. Email's will work too, though.
Call her at a time you're pretty sure you'll be leaving a message, so you can talk uninterrupted and so she can listen to it and think about it before having to respond.
quote:Ayup. I've even stopped right after a first kiss*, just to check that I wasn't misreading the situation.**
I find that most socially-conscious men tend to interpret everything as conservatively as possible, so as to avoid acting on a false-positive. Society has emphasized rape, harassment, abuse and general insensitivity to the point that I almost always need a fairly straightforward response in order to act on most anything, especially if it's sexual.
quote:To quote Mel Brooks:
Originally posted by rivka:
Aw, and here I was looking forward to a good auto-da-fe!
quote:You always say that.
Originally posted by Megan:
I'm nothing if not consistent.