How common is that? What would be the expected reaction from a majority of society? Or from other family members?
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
Why would the fact that they are African Americans be pertinent? If the parents are Americans with American values the girls stand a good chance of being more valued as daughters regardless of the race of the parents.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
It's not really pertinent to me, being african american myself. I just would want to know how to handle the ignorant people who might try to hurt any child I adopted...
Posted by Baron Samedi (Member # 9175) on :
As long as they're not gay, what's the problem?
*sits back and waits for thread to derail*
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Are you currently considering adoption, or are you looking far down the line? If the latter, is there a specific reason you prefer Chinese girls? I mean, that's pretty specific . . .
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Does India not like to adopt their unwanted girls to single American women?
And... I don't see where it would be a problem, unless African Americans give you flack for adopting African when there are Africans going into non-African American homes. Sorry to abbreviate there.
My mother is white. I list my asian looking kids as asian and my white looking kids as white, though they all have the same mother and father.
I have a white friend whose daughter is African American in appearance, and she simply introduces her as her daughter. I don't know if she's adopted or from another marriage or what, and I guess in the end it doesn't matter.
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
Are we talking name calling or what? How bought teaching her to say "Sticks and Stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me?"
If you are worried about her getting into fights at school perhaps you can get one that already knows Kung-fu?...
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
heh... I just read a book about all of these Chinese girls being abandoned. It made me cry. This isn't something I'd consider until I become a mature adult, perhaps not until I am 30, two years from now, maybe even three. Perhaps it will be the first steps to more adoptions, or becoming a foster parent or something, but that's a long way from now and I have to prepare myself and become more mature than I am. And structured. I am not very good at structure. But, two or three years is a long time, and a lot can happen then, but this is something to consider because the thought of all those children is unbearably sad. Shame I don't have the resources to adopt EVERY SINGLE ABANDONED OR ORPHANED CHILD.
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
The stories out of China are heart wrenching and brutal. It is hard to reconcile the callousness you hear and see toward unwanted baby girls with the polite and industrious people you know.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
It's a complicated situation, most of it has to do with the one child policy and how it is inforced...
but that is sort of... generalizing things a bit...
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: heh... I just read a book about all of these Chinese girls being abandoned. It made me cry.
And now China won't allow lesbian couples to adopt their girls anymore.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa:
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: heh... I just read a book about all of these Chinese girls being abandoned. It made me cry.
And now China won't allow lesbian couples to adopt their girls anymore.
That's not really logical. Rules like that are so... limiting...
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
Two of the best parents I know are a lesbian couple who adopted a girl from an orphanage in China.
Posted by MandyM (Member # 8375) on :
I think it is ridiculous! There are loving families willing to take in an unwanted child and they are turned away! It just makes me sad.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Good for them?
But on the other hand, having seen enough Chinese FOBs that dress/act like they're black, the last thing the world needs are little girls that destroy your math skills, speak *native* ebonics, and can still kick your ass in DDR. Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Ok to get this thread back on track.
There actually is some noticeable enmity towards Asians by African Americans in this country and in China. Obviously trends can change but at least traditionally here are some factors worth considering.
Asians are considered to be the model minority. Low crime rates, high employment rates, high education rates, etc. They don't typically obtain high executive level positions but they make up a ton of upper/middle management and quite often obtain middle class status.
Statistically speaking African Americans are disproportionately represented in all of these regards, (please correct me if I am wrong).
I personally believe that low education contributes to high crime liability, and low employment rates, which also lead to low promotional rates.
Asians are more likely to own their own business and tend to hire other Asians rather then other ethnic groups within those businesses.
Asians have for a long time been used a scabs,
"Chinese were often referred to as "lepers", due to the widely held belief that they carried leprosy, a disease which can render the skin as scabby. Hence, the term "scabs" arose to describe non-unionists and strike-breakers, as Chinese were often used as non-Union workers."
Chinese have unfortunately been seen as job stealers even in the African American community.
Anybody remember Rodney King? Remember the riots in LA? Did you know it was Korean and other Asian business owners who had their businesses completely obliterated by the African American mobs?
This is unrelated but in many parts of China the middle to older generations see African Americans as undesireables. Their black skin is ugly to them, and media portrayals usually show African Americans as gang members and criminals. Many Chinese people unfairly believe that African Americans are a vicious unruly race. But then again events of the Rodney King riots probably don't help change that view point. The younger folks though hold no real ill feelings towards African Americans as there are quite a few today that they hold as role models, Michael Jordan was VERY popular in Asia during his hey day. So is Shaq.
Now whether this effects in any real way the chances an African American will adopt an Asian boy or girl I am not sure. I just know that there IS some serious tension between the two groups.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I never really get racism. It seems as if Asians get it too. You hardly see any Asians on television and most movies made by westerners about Asians or with Asians are rather racist. But racism is stupid and it pisses me off. I'm not trying to jump on that bandwagon. No energy.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: Good for them?
But on the other hand, having seen enough Chinese FOBs that dress/act like they're black, the last thing the world needs are little girls that destroy your math skills, speak *native* ebonics, and can still kick your ass in DDR.
What does FOB mean?
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
Free On Board?
If it is a question of Chinese racism then yes, the hidden racism in the US is where the open racism starts in Asia, and that is with each other, if the Japanese loathe the Koreans and the Thai and Vietnamese look down on each other with contempt how far might their racism go toward obviously different folk?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by General Sax: Free On Board?
If it is a question of Chinese racism then yes, the hidden racism in the US is where the open racism starts in Asia, and that is with each other, if the Japanese loathe the Koreans and the Thai and Vietnamese look down on each other with contempt how far might their racism go toward obviously different folk?
General Sax it really is not that cut and dry. The Japanese and the Koreans loathe each other because the Japanese have done some absolutely terrible things to Koreans. Something along the lines of, "Lets completely obliterate their culture, and kill all who resist." Was pretty much the bill.
The Thai and the Vietnamese have a long history of conflict on their boarders. But honestly speaking as far as I know/can tell there is no overlying feeling of racism between the two.
The Vietnamese are not ones to hold grudges, American tourists can go there without any fear of being mistreated.
Posted by scholar (Member # 9232) on :
When you adopt interracially, you have to be prepared to talk about adoption, because everyone knows you did adopt. And there are some hateful attitudes people have- not just limited to interracial. For example, I told my mother in law that my sister in law was having a hard time getting pregnant and thinking about adoption. She honestly replied "maybe instead of adopting they should take that as a sign that God doesn't want them to be parents." This from a woman who claims no religious affiliation. I have other relatives who have said similar things. I don't think that should stop you from adopting, but it is good to be aware that there are people who will respond that way.
edit- change brother to sister in law so less confusion on their difficulties getting pregnant- she is trying to get pregnant, not him
[ December 04, 2006, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: scholar ]
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
... a brother rhaving a hard time getting pregnant...?
BB (i feel like I'm tlaking to myself... my chinese boss in Little Caesars... she always calls me that) thats true I remeber watching a documentary on the Vietnam war and the veyr well decorated NVA colonel/vet seemed quite jovial in greeting the Americans he was welcoming to talk about the war.
*sigh* the unbalanced gender ratio is saddening, hopfully itll fix itself soon. hmm... are there any countries with a reverse problem?
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
yes they should schedule a mixer...
You would think Iraq would be short on men, we have killed so many, but that does not seem to be the case, just short on brave men at this point...
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by scholar: When you adopt interracially, you have to be prepared to talk about adoption, because everyone knows you did adopt. And there are some hateful attitudes people have- not just limited to interracial. For example, I told my mother in law that my sister in law was having a hard time getting pregnant and thinking about adoption. She honestly replied "maybe instead of adopting they should take that as a sign that God doesn't want them to be parents." This from a woman who claims no religious affiliation. I have other relatives who have said similar things. I don't think that should stop you from adopting, but it is good to be aware that there are people who will respond that way.
edit- change brother to sister in law so less confusion on their difficulties getting pregnant- she is trying to get pregnant, not him
Dang, that's a depressing thing to tell a person who wants to adopt... It's sad for people to respond that way, as it is not their business in the first place what a person will do.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia:
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: Good for them?
But on the other hand, having seen enough Chinese FOBs that dress/act like they're black, the last thing the world needs are little girls that destroy your math skills, speak *native* ebonics, and can still kick your ass in DDR.
What does FOB mean?
Fresh Off the Boat. It's a term used to describe an immigrant, esp. one who reflects their background, esp. accent.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
i remember in a harry turtledove novel a black yough in Iowa married a Chinese daughter of a laundrymat, the girls parents (especially the mother) didnt like it vey much, the youths parents were more concerned if the local whites might give them trouble for it, regardless of whether or not there in the USA and not the CSA.
Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
Sax: Free on Board is exactly what I thought at first too. What do you do for a living?
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
Certainly a child in those conditions, syn, is going to suffer some indignities and social hostility. But I'd wager that what she'd go through back in China as an unwanted orphan would be worse...
Posted by General Sax (Member # 9694) on :
I worked on a loading dock to get through school Posted by Puppy (Member # 6721) on :
That "scab" explanation from several posts up seems forced to me. I mean, when a union is trying to coerce a company by bleeding them of labor, a scab is a worker who arrives to staunch the flow. The word makes enough sense by itself that it would seem strange to me for a more elaborate explanation to be accurate.
I just checked etymonline. It says:
"Meaning 'strikebreaker' first recorded 1806, from earlier sense of 'person who refuses to join a trade union'(1777), probably from meaning 'despicable person' (1590), possibly borrowed in this sense from M.Du."
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
As someone who has adopted and is adopting internationally let me tell you my experience.
1)International Adoption takes money. Most money in the US is in the hands of paler Americans, so that is why they do more of the adoption. There is not a country I know of that sets racial limits on the adopters.
2) I've seen African American familes with asian girls. They seemed happy.
3) The amount of criticism I have recieved for adopting--0. The amount of support from family, friends, Hatrack, co-workers, and strangers off the street? I lost track, but some where close to infinite.
We tell people that Sasha's adopted if it comes up in conversation, but he looks a lot like us. That is the luck of the draw mostly, but it means we haven't thrown it in the face of those who would not understand.
I will tell you this. If I were an African American couple, with a cute little Chinese girl, and someone noticed the racial differences and asked, "Is she adopted?"
I'd answer, "No."
If they asked, "Is she from a previous marriage?"
I'd answer, "No." and walk off. Confusing idiots is a fun game.
Now I can not speak for China nor for an African American, or anyone of color. I can only speak as a father. I say there is nothing on this earth that should keep you away from the daughter that is waiting for you.
Some will argue that the Daughter will face persecution or ridicule here in the states. Bull. People face that how ever and where ever they are born. Its only the egotists who believe that they have some special, unique, right to claim their special brand of suffering as their own.
Worse, some will argue that you are doing your daughter-to-be a favor, saving her from a poor and desparate life as an Orphan in China.
Bull.
That little girl is going to do you the greatest favor imaginable, by letting you be her father.
Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :
Dan, that was so .
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Puppy: That "scab" explanation from several posts up seems forced to me. I mean, when a union is trying to coerce a company by bleeding them of labor, a scab is a worker who arrives to staunch the flow. The word makes enough sense by itself that it would seem strange to me for a more elaborate explanation to be accurate.
I just checked etymonline. It says:
"Meaning 'strikebreaker' first recorded 1806, from earlier sense of 'person who refuses to join a trade union'(1777), probably from meaning 'despicable person' (1590), possibly borrowed in this sense from M.Du."
Chinese people didn't join unions as there were none sympathetic to them, and with there very strongly family oriented society they typically kept to their own race. Thus they were often called in to replace workers if there was a union strike. There really was a terrible ladder of hate. Most whites hated the Irish, the Irish hated blacks, and blacks hated Asians.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_raven: As someone who has adopted and is adopting internationally let me tell you my experience.
1)International Adoption takes money. Most money in the US is in the hands of paler Americans, so that is why they do more of the adoption. There is not a country I know of that sets racial limits on the adopters.
2) I've seen African American familes with asian girls. They seemed happy.
3) The amount of criticism I have recieved for adopting--0. The amount of support from family, friends, Hatrack, co-workers, and strangers off the street? I lost track, but some where close to infinite.
We tell people that Sasha's adopted if it comes up in conversation, but he looks a lot like us. That is the luck of the draw mostly, but it means we haven't thrown it in the face of those who would not understand.
I will tell you this. If I were an African American couple, with a cute little Chinese girl, and someone noticed the racial differences and asked, "Is she adopted?"
I'd answer, "No."
If they asked, "Is she from a previous marriage?"
I'd answer, "No." and walk off. Confusing idiots is a fun game.
Now I can not speak for China nor for an African American, or anyone of color. I can only speak as a father. I say there is nothing on this earth that should keep you away from the daughter that is waiting for you.
Some will argue that the Daughter will face persecution or ridicule here in the states. Bull. People face that how ever and where ever they are born. Its only the egotists who believe that they have some special, unique, right to claim their special brand of suffering as their own.
Worse, some will argue that you are doing your daughter-to-be a favor, saving her from a poor and desparate life as an Orphan in China.
Bull.
That little girl is going to do you the greatest favor imaginable, by letting you be her father.
Dan <3
I have a Taiwanese aunt that my grandparents adopted and though she has decided to walk a path far different then the one my grandparents would have hoped she is a wonderful person.
I personally have every intention of adopting a sweet little Chinese girl. Though part of the reason I want to is to get her out of China, it truly is more because I know what a blessing she would be in my life, as I would try to be in hers.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
Black/Asian relations aren't perfect, but it's not too bad. Sure, there are first generation Asian immigrants who think it's acceptable to treat blacks poorly, and there are Asian immigrants who think it's appropriate to exalt white people, but most of that is fueled by media. There are also a healthy amount of clubs in LA where it's just Asians and Blacks in their twenties. Not due to any planning, but younger Asians and blacks get along fine on the whole.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong: Black/Asian relations aren't perfect, but it's not too bad. Sure, there are first generation Asian immigrants who think it's acceptable to treat blacks poorly, and there are Asian immigrants who think it's appropriate to exalt white people, there are also a healthy amount of clubs in LA where it's just Asians and Blacks in their twenties. Not due to any planning, but younger Asians and blacks get along fine on the whole.
I noted in an earlier post that in older generations this is more prevalent but in younger ones it is much less so.
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_raven:
I will tell you this. If I were an African American couple, with a cute little Chinese girl, and someone noticed the racial differences and asked, "Is she adopted?"
I'd answer, "No."
If they asked, "Is she from a previous marriage?"
I'd answer, "No." and walk off. Confusing idiots is a fun game.
I knew a lady in Florida many years ago who adopted a mixed race child. Once, when a stranger asked her "what race is the baby's father?" she looked her straight in the eye, said "I have no idea" and walked on.
I thought that was the perfect answer to an intrusive and moronic question.
Yours is good too, Dan. Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong: Black/Asian relations aren't perfect, but it's not too bad. Sure, there are first generation Asian immigrants who think it's acceptable to treat blacks poorly, and there are Asian immigrants who think it's appropriate to exalt white people, but most of that is fueled by media. There are also a healthy amount of clubs in LA where it's just Asians and Blacks in their twenties. Not due to any planning, but younger Asians and blacks get along fine on the whole.
I'm going to have to ask you to clarify whether you mean to imply that any strained relations between blacks and asians stem primarily (or exclusively) from asian behavior, and not from black behavior.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_raven: As someone who has adopted and is adopting internationally let me tell you my experience.
1)International Adoption takes money. Most money in the US is in the hands of paler Americans, so that is why they do more of the adoption. There is not a country I know of that sets racial limits on the adopters.
2) I've seen African American familes with asian girls. They seemed happy.
3) The amount of criticism I have recieved for adopting--0. The amount of support from family, friends, Hatrack, co-workers, and strangers off the street? I lost track, but some where close to infinite.
We tell people that Sasha's adopted if it comes up in conversation, but he looks a lot like us. That is the luck of the draw mostly, but it means we haven't thrown it in the face of those who would not understand.
I will tell you this. If I were an African American couple, with a cute little Chinese girl, and someone noticed the racial differences and asked, "Is she adopted?"
I'd answer, "No."
If they asked, "Is she from a previous marriage?"
I'd answer, "No." and walk off. Confusing idiots is a fun game.
Now I can not speak for China nor for an African American, or anyone of color. I can only speak as a father. I say there is nothing on this earth that should keep you away from the daughter that is waiting for you.
Some will argue that the Daughter will face persecution or ridicule here in the states. Bull. People face that how ever and where ever they are born. Its only the egotists who believe that they have some special, unique, right to claim their special brand of suffering as their own.
Worse, some will argue that you are doing your daughter-to-be a favor, saving her from a poor and desparate life as an Orphan in China.
Bull.
That little girl is going to do you the greatest favor imaginable, by letting you be her father.
Those are awesome points, but I'm a woman ^^ I post manly...
I read an article when I was trying to find resources about African Americans adopting Asians (couldn't find any) about the LA riots and how a lot of blacks were annoyed with the Koreans for lack of eye contact, but in Asian culture direct eye contact is considered rude. Which makes me think of people with asperger's syndrome who have trouble with eye contact.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
It's shocking how this has taken me over. The rules will probably become stricter next year (I have a theory on that) But nothing will really stop me from trying to adopt one of these kids when the time comes. All I can think of is whether or not I'll make a good parent.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
quote:I read an article when I was trying to find resources about African Americans adopting Asians (couldn't find any) about the LA riots and how a lot of blacks were annoyed with the Koreans for lack of eye contact, but in Asian culture direct eye contact is considered rude. Which makes me think of people with asperger's syndrome who have trouble with eye contact.
I think the riots had less to do with eye contact and more to do with that korean gorcery store owner shooting and killing an obnoxious black pre-teen for being obnoxious.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
That too.
Is it abnormal to feel love for people who don't even exist yet?
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
quote:Is it abnormal to feel love for people who don't even exist yet?
I wouldn't say abnormal. I'd say unhealthy. Investing too much in fantasy relationships isn't a good idea, IMHO. I think it's potentially even worse when that fantasy person you love will eventually be replaced by a real person who will likely be quite different than what you imagine. I'm not saying that this will always be the case, or that your relationship will necessarily be strained by having your expectations/dreams dissapointed, but beware of forgetting realities. That "sweet little Chinese girl" you're thinking of adopting might turn out to be far from sweet.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I'm not even really imagining them, or what they'd be like.... I have no expectations They could be anything really. Bad screaming little brats making me have to take them outside until they can calm down, kids that scream in the middle of the night, whatever... I just already care from them so much I want to do all I can to be a good parent to whatever children I end up with no matter what.
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
Well, good then. Sounds more like you love the idea of being a parent, rather than some warmfuzzy version of a child. Which I find nice. Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Princess Leah: Well, good then. Sounds more like you love the idea of being a parent, rather than some warmfuzzy version of a child. Which I find nice.
I find the idea of being a parent completely terrifying, but it's appealing for some reason. Perhaps hormones have to do with it, but I really just hope I'll be a good parent and not do all the stuff my parents did.... They werent' completely bad, it's just...
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Also in certain places with well established triads and black gangs some of the animosity could be caused by competition between them. There was an interesting movie about this onc but I dont remeber the name.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
There are new rules to deal with the fact that there is more demand for adopted babies in China than supply. Thus, these types of people are restricted from adopting.
quote: China is a popular destination for foreign couples who want to adopt. The US approved more than 7,000 visas for children being adopted from China in 2005.
But demand has exceeded supply in recent years.
""The number of people applying for adoptions is soaring, but following the development of China's economy and society the number of abandoned and orphaned children is less and less," an official at the China Centre for Adoption Affairs (CCAA) said.
The official told Reuters news agency a formal notice of the changes would be given to adoption agencies "with which we have cooperative agreements" possibly within the week.
Ms Harrar said that, despite its impact on her clients, she believed China was acting in good faith.
"I truly believe the CCAA is doing what they believe in their hearts to be in the very best interest of these children," she told the BBC News website.
The restrictions are:
quote: Each parent must be between 30 and 50 years of age Only married couples are eligible The total number of divorces/annulments per couple is two Families whose income is derived from retirement, disability, or insurance settlement are disqualified No family can have more than five children in the home Both parents must have BMI's under 40 Either parent taking medication for anxiety or depression are disqualified
Looks like gay couples are out too. (Not sure whether this is a Chinese restriction or because some states do not recognize a gay marriage)
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
All of those strike me as reasonable except the last one on the list. *shrug*
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
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