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Because so many families have both parents holding full time jobs.

I'm not being flip; that's really why. Once that became the norm, the economy adjusted to it, and now it's more or less a necessity.

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In my family, we've decided that the high cost of child care is not worth what little money we'd net with us both working jobs (I mean, how much is time with your child worth?). Since I'm the family member with the most earning power, I'm currently working while my wife stays at home.

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• One car, most likely used.
• One TV, that you keep for years and years. (No paying for cable, bunny ears for you.)
• Perhaps a couple of radios.
• One telephone, which is a land-line.
• Children sharing bedrooms.
• Home cooked dinners, only going out to eat on special occassions.
• Limited wardrobes for everyone, purchased frugally.
• For entertainment, kids would go play baseball or hide and seek, things which cost next to nothing.

• Both parents get a car, and usually fairly newer ones. The kids all get cars (if cheap ones) at 16. Along with the cost of additional cars, you need to also add the cost of insuring each car.
• Large, color TV in the living room, most likely at least one or two more in the house. Paying ($50+) every month on cable, maybe even digital cable ($100+) and even a DVR or TIVO.
• A DVD player to go with that TV, with lots of DVDs of course (~$20 each).
• If you are a gamer, or have kids, you'll have a gaming console ($200-600) and games ($50+ each).
• You most likely have a stereo, and so do your children, and they probably have MP3 players too. CDs are not cheap either, and a typical family will have tons of those.
• Each parent will have a cell phone, and probably each child as well, when they reach around 12 years old.
• These days it seems like it is a crime for two teenagers to share a room, and the sizes of houses has grown a lot since then.
• The family will have at least one computer, more likely two or three, and cable internet is now the norm ($50 a month).
• People go out to eat, or order food to be delivered, far more than they used to. This can add a ton of money to a family's expenses.
• The cost of clothes is ridiculous these days, and you kids are going to want to be outfitted by the Gap or by Hot Topic and the like, and you'll be paying hundreds of dollars a year keeping them in trendy clothes. The expected cost of dress for adults has risen exponentially as well.

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Home cooked dinners, only going out to eat on special occassions.

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Originally posted by cheiros do ender:


So my guess is that Americans are in debt? 'Cause I was solidly under the impression that y'all were just freakin' rich as hell up until now.

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• We started out in a real "starter" home - 800 sq ft in a not-so-nice neighborhood where our house payment was less than rent on an average apartment
• We bought land where we eventually wanted to live and paid it off before we started building a house so we began with equity in the land and no debt
• We did much of the work on the house ourselves, taking longer to complete it but saving thousands
• We regularly bought and drove used cars much longer than the average person keeps a car - my current van was purchased used, my husband's truck has 150,000 miles on it
• We do not finance anything other than our house and cars - furniture, electronics - all can be purchased only when we have the actual cash on hand
• If we want something and don't have the cash - we wait. Simple as that. Waited 8 years before I got the furniture I wanted for the den of my house

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Originally posted by cheiros do ender:
Looking at list one, and then two, I find it hard to believe that if one job will pay for list one, only two jobs will pay for list two.

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One other thing that Xaiver didn't include on his list is savings. One job paid for list 1 plus a degree of savings in the 50's. People now don't save as much, and aren't as prepared for retirement. So that helps make list 2 attainable with "only" two jobs, although yes, most Americans have way too much debt.
 

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Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
 
While I agree with the general sentiment that upper-middle class Americans live much too lavishly...

I think there's a WHOLE lot more to talk about in regard to the rest of the middle class that is barely hanging on to pay rent, their own health care (only 60% of employers provide health care to employees), mortgages and pension plans. I think the problem is the wealth gap.

Screwed is a book I just finished reading that goes in depth about what is essentially a war on the middle class by the corporate elite, and how our government since Reagan has been defending them.
 

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Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
 
The guy's basically a wingnut, though. I agree that the idea of a corporation as a legal individual should be eliminated, despite what that will do to the economy (which Hartmann hasn't even considered, I imagine), but his nutty ideas about no company owning another, and "the needs of the community" are nothing more or less than an attempt to nationalize (or socialize) (or national-socialize) other people's money for what he thinks it should be used for.

His idea to make primary school optional, but have university education paid for by the government is interesting, in a "they're coming to take me awaaaaaaay..." sort of way.

[ December 07, 2006, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: Lisa ]
 

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Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
 
It's strange to me, how much different things seem now from when I was growing up. My parents felt like owning a house was the American Dream, and now out of the dozen or so 30-somethings I regularly spend time with, all of whom have jobs and college education, only one couple has a house. The rest of us rent, and don't foresee home ownership in the near future since the prices are so high.

I'm sad that houses have become such an investment commodity, rather than a place to live. On my block, within the last year 3 houses have been bought, fixed up (read painted and landscaped), and put back up on the market. Everybody wants to make a quick buck flipping houses, so they artificially raise the prices while adding little to no real value.

I'm guessing the next investment fad will be to buy out all the food in a grocery store, and set up a stand across the street to re-sell it at a 50% markup.
 

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Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
While that happens, it is by no means universal.

Among my group of friends (all in our 30s as well), pretty much everybody has a house to live in. But then, most of us also have families with children, so YMMV.
 

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Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
The Two-Income Trap argues that there is essentially a bidding war on neighborhoods with good schools. In order to compete in that bidding war, most people need two incomes. The book is an extremely interesting read and highly recommend it. It also talks about how the stay at home mom used to be a safety net. If something happened to dad, mom could start working. Nowdays, people are dependent on two incomes to make ends meet. When something goes wrong, there is no safety net.
 

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Posted by Stephan (Member # 7549) on :
 

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Originally posted by MightyCow:

I'm guessing the next investment fad will be to buy out all the food in a grocery store, and set up a stand across the street to re-sell it at a 50% markup.

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