I just got off the phone with one of the agents I deal with, and he routinely ends phone calls by saying "Thanks, pal."
It's like fingernails on a chalkboard.
To me, the word "pal" has always had negative vibes, I think. It conjures images of NY cab drivers saying "Hey pal! Get out of the way!" or the newfound friends of a lotto winner saying "Heyyy pal... can you spare me a couple bucks?" or a busy shopowner saying "Listen, pal, I don't have time for you right now."
It rings with falseness, somehow. It's supposed to mean someone you're friendly with, but it's normally used in an impersonal way for someone you don't know from a hole in the wall.
Am I alone in this?
(As an aside, I have another agent who uses the word "friend" in place of "pal" - so, it's "Thanks, friend." Smacks just as false, to me. But then again, maybe it's because I'm dealing with insurance agents. )
Posted by Verily the Younger (Member # 6705) on :
The problem I have with words like these is the false intimacy implied in such situations. I regard "friend" and its synonyms as words that are too strong to be applied to me by someone I've just met or with whom I have only a formal business relationship. I think that kind of chummy behavior from someone who hasn't earned it shows a distinct lack of respect and is therefore insulting.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Flying Cow: Me and my best friend love the words, "pal" and "buddy" because they are so misleading.
If English was not my first language I would be quite confused if somebody angrily said to me, "Hey buddy, you better watch where your goin!"
In Australia they could likely say, "Hey mate, you better watch it."
But I've never heard of any other language other then English where the word is used but the context changes everything.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Whatever you say, pal.
-Bok
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I think "pal" has been used so often in a negative light that it has lost all positive meaning, though.
"Pal" has almost come to mean "person whom you are not really friendly with" or "person who you are friendly with but who you are trying to ingratiate yourself with for ulterior motives."
I have a hard time thinking of scenarios where "pal" actually means friend - at least as used in the most recent three generations or so.
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
Hey, buddy, watch it.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Flying Cow: Have you seen the Lion King?
What did you think Simba meant when he said, "Dad, we're pals right? And we will never be separated ever right?"
No ambiguity in that script if you ask me. But I agree when you said, "pal" I immediately thought of Home Alone where Harry says to Kevin, "Hiya Palll!"
Pal definitely seems to have mostly lost its positive spin, you can thank New York taxi cap drivers for it.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
You know, I have a lot less negative feeling towards the plural "pals" than the singular "pal".
I mean, I can see someone saying "I thought you two were pals?" or "He went out with a few of his pals" or even "What are pals for?"
Somehow the plural makes it more inclusive and communal, whereas directing "pal" at someone as a label just seems false.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
I only find it to be negative when it is spoken directly to me. However, it's different when it's third person. For example, I will sometimes refer to friends as buddies or pals. Likewise, if I'm referred to in the third person as a buddy or pal, I probably wouldn't be upset or take offense.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
"You're a real pal".
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Maybe "pal" can be short for "paladin". Which suddenly makes it much cooler, no?
Posted by Artemisia Tridentata (Member # 8746) on :
Maybe it can be short for "paliative". That would be sweet!
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
What? As in, "Have you seen my pal, Morphine?"
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
If it's short for paladin, it's even worse. At least in the World of Warcraft sense. [/pally hate]
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
chill, mate.
Posted by Artemisia Tridentata (Member # 8746) on :
quote:What? As in, "Have you seen my pal, Morphine?"
No, think a little older. The word means cloak, cover up or hide to make everything all better. I was think more of a blankie or a sugar tit.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: But I've never heard of any other language other then English where the word is used but the context changes everything.
Maybe you just don't know enough other languages. English is by no means unique in that regard. In fact, I'd be surprised to learn of a language where no word changes its meaning based on context.
Posted by Artemisia Tridentata (Member # 8746) on :
Pues, pues pues.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: But I've never heard of any other language other then English where the word is used but the context changes everything.
Maybe you just don't know enough other languages. English is by no means unique in that regard. In fact, I'd be surprised to learn of a language where no word changes its meaning based on context.
Examples, Examples?
I know Chinese, and in my experience nobody who is Chinese uses "friend" or "buddy" in that context.
If I said it literally in Chinese using any word that denotes familiarity they would probably think they had misheard me or that I was crazy.
Pretty sure Japanese and Korean are the same way.
Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
Pal pal pal.
Now the word sounds really weird.
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
You should live in the north of England. Everyone calls total strangers 'love', 'pet' or 'darlin'. Which, when you think about it, seems even more fake-intimate. It bothered me at first, and then I got over it.
I think endearments are mostly used to disarm. Only when they're used by sleazy people, do they become sleazy by association.
Posted by dantesparadigm (Member # 8756) on :
You know when you say a word too much and it loses all meaning and all you can do is think about the sound of the word? Well pal is a really ugly word; you kind of have to spit it out at someone. It makes a much better pejorative than anything else.
My father used to refer to everyone (including me) as ‘buddy’ when he got mad (and drunk), it completely ruined the word for me and now I can’t hear it without cringing.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by dantesparadigm: You know when you say a word too much and it loses all meaning and all you can do is think about the sound of the word? Well pal is a really ugly word; you kind of have to spit it out at someone. It makes a much better pejorative than anything else.
My father used to refer to everyone (including me) as ‘buddy’ when he got mad (and drunk), it completely ruined the word for me and now I can’t hear it without cringing.
My best friend and I call each other dude all the time, and refer to each other as buddy,
Wouldn't say, "You ready to go buddy?" Dude would fit in there. But I would say, "I thought you were my good buddy, why won't you go to the airport with me dude?"
I like the word buddy, but I agree with you that pal almost sounds more like a pejorative then a term of endearment. Definitely not a nice sounding word.
Posted by Carrie (Member # 394) on :
I like "buddy" in the context of "Hey, buddy, let's watch the game at a bar this weekend." I rarely ever say "pal." In fact, now that you made me think about it, I can't actually remember the last time I've used the word out loud. Maybe I'll start... Posted by Euripides (Member # 9315) on :
I think words like 'friend' or 'buddy' can echo falseness, but a lot of the time they are just a convention of etiquette; an expression of good will. Unless the person's body language runs contrary to what's coming out of their mouth, I'd generally regard a stranger who refers to me as 'mate' (or 'bro,' depending on which suburb I'm in) as just being friendly.
So long as this convention doesn't dilute the actual meaning of the word, I'm fine with it.
I've never met anyone who uses 'pal' though.
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
I call Mooselet "pal." He's the only one, as far as I know. It's weird even to think of calling anyone else (especially a stranger) by that.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
FlyingCow, I feel just the same way as you about "pal" (and, interestingly, I'm much more okay with "pals").
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I don't say pal, either way. I do use "buddy" and "dude" a lot with my friends.
quote:Word History: Pal, like buddy and chum, has an informal, thoroughly "American" ring to it. Its source, though, is rather unusual—Romany, the Indic language of the Gypsies. First recorded in English in the 17th century, pal was borrowed from a Romany word meaning "brother, comrade," which occurs as phal in the Romany spoken in England and phral in the Romany spoken in Europe. Gypsies speak an Indic language because they originally migrated to Europe from the border region between Iran and India. In other Indic languages we find related words meaning "brother," such as Hindustani bhāi and Prakrit bhāda or bhāyā; they all come from Sanskrit bhrātā, which in turn traces its ancestry to the same Indo-European word that our word brother does.
So I guess it's more like when Desmond in LOST says "Stop there, or I'll blow your head off brother!"
Posted by stihl1 (Member # 1562) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bella Bee: You should live in the north of England. Everyone calls total strangers 'love', 'pet' or 'darlin'. Which, when you think about it, seems even more fake-intimate. It bothered me at first, and then I got over it.
I think endearments are mostly used to disarm. Only when they're used by sleazy people, do they become sleazy by association.
Along those lines, I hate it when people call me "Hon" (as in honey) or "Sweetie" or some other false affectionate when speaking to me. It's so fake, and I greatly dislike that.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
They use "darlin" in northern England?
Posted by Euripides (Member # 9315) on :
Bill O'Reilly seems to like using 'pal' in a condescending tone, from the little I've heard him speak.
I guess you could say that it carries a condescending tone easier than other synonyms might.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Anything Bill O'Reilly says carries a condescending tone, don't single out one word.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
quote:Examples, Examples?
I know Chinese, and in my experience nobody who is Chinese uses "friend" or "buddy" in that context.
If I said it literally in Chinese using any word that denotes familiarity they would probably think they had misheard me or that I was crazy.
Pretty sure Japanese and Korean are the same way.
I don't mean to sound doubtful but how well do you know Chinese? Is it your native language?
as for myself, I can certainly confirm that words change their meaning depending on the context in Polish, I can even think of a number of equivalents for "pal" that would behave in the way that's described here.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I thought BlackBlade grew up in Hong Kong. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
ok
I was just curious -- that's one of the nuances of speech you might not notice unless you're very fluent in a language.
Posted by Verily the Younger (Member # 6705) on :
For my part, I could give examples of words in Japanese that change their meaning depending on context. As far as I know, the Japanese don't use any of their words for "friend" in the way being described here, but there are plenty of words that do carry different nuances when used in different ways. I don't know about Chinese, but I would be very surprised to learn that any language completely lacked such a feature.
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English is by no means unique in that regard. In fact, I'd be surprised to learn of a language where no word changes its meaning based on context.
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My best friend and I call each other dude all the time, and refer to each other as buddy,![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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