quote:A new device called Rapex may soon be for sale in South Africa - a country that has around 47 million people, but had over 54,000 rapes last year. (That’s just what is reported to the police. The South African Law Commission estimated 1.69 million.)
The device would be like a female condom - with teeth. 25 sharp teeth would attach to the male, causing pain and ideally giving the woman a chance to escape.
It's no perfect solution, but I sure don't feel sorry for any rapist who gets caught in one of these.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
I guess if you prefer your rape to include murder, this is what you're looking for.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
My feelings exactly. That pain had best be VERY severe.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
MightyCow, it sounds an awful lot like you're saying it would be wrong for a rape victim to use lethal force to protect themselves from being raped.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
No, I'm saying that if someone is already raping you, and you put a fishing hook in his penis, there's a fair chance he'll go into a rage and kill you.
Posted by stihl1 (Member # 1562) on :
I think raising the penalty for rape to death in South Africa would solve the problem a lot faster.
Posted by Gecko (Member # 8160) on :
I expect forced sodomy to be on the rise in South Africa
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gecko: I expect forced sodomy to be on the rise in South Africa
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
...Ow...
I do agree though, that it would probably only turn into murder. But who knows, maybe just the very idea that if you rape this woman, you'll be in excruciating pain will stop many.
But I could see forced sodomy increase as well...
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
quote:No, I'm saying that if someone is already raping you, and you put a fishing hook in his penis, there's a fair chance he'll go into a rage and kill you.
Ah! My sincere apologies. I should have known that's what you were getting at, I must be pretty testy today. Sorry.
Actually though, it's 25 fishing hooks...I don't know what the result would be. That would have to be extremely painful, maybe debilitatingly painful.
Posted by MidnightBlue (Member # 6146) on :
I know I read that they would need to be removed by a doctor.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
The only way this is an anti-rape device is as a deterrent. It is much more a device for rape victims to get revenge on their attackers.
Also, how hard would it be for the woman to forget that she was wearing the device and accidentally attack her husband with it?
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I don't know about the other ladies, but I find it difficult to forget when I'm using a sanitary product, much less the Jaws of Death.
-pH
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Or for that matter, how hard could it be to detect and remove it?
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:The only way this is an anti-rape device is as a deterrent. It is much more a device for rape victims to get revenge on their attackers.
This is a great point, although I'm pretty sure we disagree on whether or not that's a good thing. Posted by Gecko (Member # 8160) on :
If this thing starts to get popular, I'm sure most rapists will pack something to disarm the device first, if you catch my meaning.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
Well, if even a rapist gets caught in one, I'm pretty sure he's not going to be up to trying it again anytime soon.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
The Wikipedia article echoes concerns voiced here, and adds a few more:
quote:Critics, women included, have objected to Ehler's invention as "medieval" and "vengeful, horrible, and disgusting" and oppose its planned sale in drugstores. Since the wearer of the condom exhibits no visible signals that she is using the condom, there is no visible deterrence for a prospective attacker, which adds to criticisms that the device is vindictive. Of course, this concern for the well-being of a violent rapist has garnered even harsher responses from proponents of the device in the blogosphere. However, the device has furthermore caused concern that it could be worn for consensual sex as part of a malicious act of revenge or outright cruelty. Others fear that use of the device would enrage the attacker and further jeopardize the victim.
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Thing is, if nobody knows who's wearing one, any woman could say, "Get off me! I'm wearing one!" and the guy wouldn't know if she was lying or not. That's a good thing in my book, so long as he decides it's better to be safe than sorry.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Wouldn't he be more likely to say "Thanks for warning me; out it comes, or else"?
Posted by Brinestone (Member # 5755) on :
Hmmm. Good point.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Forgive me, I don't know the details of the implantation of the device or what it really looks like, but can't the rapist do a quick recon of the area in question to see if there's any danger before he goes for it?
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
This is a good question, Lyr. 'cause isn't the female condom, like, visible from the outside?
Did some quick research on the manufacturer's website, according to the website:
It cannot be seen easily, has a special applicator for planting and removal (so not like a string, like I would have guessed with a tampon), and can stay in for up to 24 hours and costs a bit more than a normal condom (obviously).
Posted by porcelain girl (Member # 1080) on :
well, even though people bring up good points of dissent, having a guy stop to grab his seriously injured crotch might give a woman enough time to run and get help, or incompacitate her attacker. i think anytime a woman is assaulted she has to measure whether fighting back will work for or against her survival, and this device, or at least the idea of it, is not without merit.
however, i don't agree with _all_ the criticism. vindictive? someone puts his penis in your body without asking, and injuring it in the act is seen as vindictive? ahem, if you can't copulate nicely, don't copulate at all.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I thought the "vindictive" thing was referring to the idea that a woman would use it to get back at a lover or something.
Although I'd think he'd notice it before...you know.
-pH
Posted by Altáriël of Dorthonion (Member # 6473) on :
All I want is a picture.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
From the website:
quote:Won't the man initially feel this?
When a rapist attacks, he looses control of his senses. He will become aware of the device when it is too late.
Um . . .
quote:Won't I forget the device is in?
You could, but the empty applicator should remind you!
Oy, THAT's what should remind you? That, or the gasp of pain from your husband should you forget. >_<
quote:Could the device cause infertility?
No, not at all.
And you know this because . . .
Posted by DSH (Member # 741) on :
I actually think the product is a great idea...in theory. It would need extremely wide spread use to really have a deterrent effect though. If only 1 in 1000 women use the product, I don't see too many rapists "getting it". Can we expect as many as 1 in 1000 women to use it? Would the actual number be significantly less than that? (say 1 in 10,000, or 1 in 50,000?).
Will women need to wear the Rapex 24/7 to be adequately protected? (can it be worn continualy? I'm a guy, "feminine hygene" is not the kind of thing I think about very often. ) Keeping one "handy" in the purse will do you no good if your rapist fails to make an appointment.
And since a significant percentage of rape victims in SA are children, do we make little girls wear the Rapex?
Just a few of my thoughts FWIW.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Sadly, many women have been killed over time, as nobody can guarantee the outcome of any rape! However, the huge plus-factor is that the discomfort and pain is such, that the rapist would be disabled temporarily, (much worse than a kick in the groin that self-defence instructors teach women!) giving you time to get away and get help.
That's the response from the manufacturer to the question of whether or not the rapist might kill a woman for using it. The response seems to me "Well they might kill you anyway, so might as well take a shot." Not very comforting.
Apparently it will be removed automatically when a forcibly entered penis is removed, and the man must then take immediately medical action. I don't think that'll necessarily stop him from taking a moment to beat her to death, but who knows, it might.
To the question of whether or not a man will sense it before he enters her:
quote:When a rapist attacks, he looses control of his senses. He will become aware of the device when it is too late.
That strikes me as wishful thinking. If the idea is that using these will deter men from rapes once then find out the danger, men will start probing the area first, rip the thing out, and then continue on with the deed. "He loses control of his senses" is a false sense of security given to a woman using this product.
I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad idea, I just question whether or not, in the long run, it will end up being a very good one. It also strikes me that if this item were used vindictively, to purposefully trick a man into injuring himself, it would be virtually impossible for the woman to be convicted, as it would be his word against hers as to whether there was permission.
Were I a woman, I'd put more faith in a taser and self defense instruction than in this device.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
I'm seriously not understanding how you could forget you had something there...
Edit: Um, I mean, for the women. Not the rapists.
-pH
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
Is this an actual purchaseable item? I remember something like this not too long ago, only it turned out to be simply an awareness-raising gimmick, not a real product.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:The only way this is an anti-rape device is as a deterrent. It is much more a device for rape victims to get revenge on their attackers.
This is a great point, although I'm pretty sure we disagree on whether or not that's a good thing.
I have no idea how you can be pretty sure that we disagree, as I haven't said anything to indicate my opinion on whether that's a good thing or not.
[ March 23, 2007, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by Counter Bean (Member # 10176) on :
Maybe just a regular condom hanging out, she can shrug and say it was left by the last guy, he did not look too healthy...
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:vindictive? someone puts his penis in your body without asking, and injuring it in the act is seen as vindictive?
Yes, it is absolutely vidictive. That is, it's an act of revenge, punishing somebody who has already raped (or is in the process of raping).
Of course, that doesn't meant it's necessarily bad, depending on how you feel about punishing people for crimes they've committed.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I don't know if I call it punishment. If the attacker stops as soon as he starts, because of the device, it seems to me it's a device created to stop an action in progress, or just beginning.
It might make the difference between 5 seconds of rape or five minutes, or ten minutes. I call that a bit more than punishment.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Is using pepper spray on a would-be mugger vindictive?
-pH
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Sometimes you need to be a little vindictive. It's often a very good way to really drive your point home.
For example, say you rape someone, and they castrate you. You just learned not to rape people any more.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:The only way this is an anti-rape device is as a deterrent. It is much more a device for rape victims to get revenge on their attackers.
This is a great point, although I'm pretty sure we disagree on whether or not that's a good thing.
I have no idea how you can be pretty sure that we disagree, as I haven't said anything to indicate my opinion on whether that's a good thing or not.
I know, it was a joking guess, hence the wink smiley.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH: Is using pepper spray on a would-be mugger vindictive?
-pH
Here in Michigan I think they call that illegal.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
This thread is totally giving me deja vu. Haven't we had it before?
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
quote:Originally posted by pH: Is using pepper spray on a would-be mugger vindictive?
-pH
Here in Michigan I think they call that illegal.
Even if you have a permit?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'm pretty sure, but not positive, that pepper spray and mace are illegal in Michigan.
Let me go check on that though.
edit to add:
quote: pepper spray is legal if it has less than 2% of the active ingredient, this decreases the length of the effects but not the SHU. Sprays containing a mixture of CN/CS are also banned. Otherwise pepper spray is an over the counter purchase.
SHU is the intensity of the burn you feel when you get sprayed. CS is tear gas.
It can be purchased by anyone over 18 years of age, so I was wrong, it isn't illegal, it's just restricted and watered down.
[ March 23, 2007, 03:30 AM: Message edited by: Lyrhawn ]
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
A'ight. Let's make a device that puts barbed hooks in your vagoo! so that if the rapist has aids or sommat he'll essentially guarantee you get it and like everything else he has.
Posted by Lavalamp (Member # 4337) on :
Devices like this were proposed in America in the 1960s and 70s. It was around then that the research on the essential nature of rape as VIOLENT crime came to the fore.
Anything that causes a rapist pain yet fails to incapacitate the rapist (and some of these guys actually practice hitting themselves with pepper spray to become inured to its effects) is probably going to lead to an increase in beatings and death.
Not sure how well that research generalizes to other countries, of course.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by pH: Is using pepper spray on a would-be mugger vindictive?
No. That would be preventative.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:The only way this is an anti-rape device is as a deterrent. It is much more a device for rape victims to get revenge on their attackers.
This is a great point, although I'm pretty sure we disagree on whether or not that's a good thing.
I have no idea how you can be pretty sure that we disagree, as I haven't said anything to indicate my opinion on whether that's a good thing or not.
I know, it was a joking guess, hence the wink smiley.
Ah. I see. I hope you'll excuse me, but I have an annoying habit of not realizing it when people don't mean what they say.
---------
quote:I don't know if I call it punishment. If the attacker stops as soon as he starts, because of the device, it seems to me it's a device created to stop an action in progress, or just beginning.
It might make the difference between 5 seconds of rape or five minutes, or ten minutes. I call that a bit more than punishment.
That is an excellent point. It does not merely dole out punishment after-the-fact, but is also preventative of the continuation of the rape.
Still, one of my biggest problems with this is that for it to be affective, the woman has to be raped.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: so that if the rapist has aids or sommat he'll essentially guarantee you get it and like everything else he has.
Well, they're claiming that since this device is also a female condom, it will guard against that.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I can see it now, future improvements!
1: Remote controlled activation/retracting device. (Good for encouraging husbands to increase their stamina for "just alittle bit longer."
2: Proximity Warning Alarm to discourage would be rapists and warn good intentioned husbands. "Warning! Unimaginable pain in 5...4...3..."
3: Backup mini circular saw with slicing action, for the rapist with the higher threshold for pain and just will not take "No" for an answer.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
O_O
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I just wanted to add this to the discussion, as an indicator of another reaction South Africans have had regarding crime (article from 1998).
quote:Crime-obsessed South Africans have a powerful new weapon with which to stop likely criminals: the car flamethrower.
Casting a man-high fireball, reportedly with no damage to the paint, the Blaster has been placed on 25 South African vehicles since its introduction last month.
Stories like these make me not want to visit South Africa, that's for sure.
Posted by Seatarsprayan (Member # 7634) on :
It's always a risk when you do *anything* to fight back against an attacker that they might get angry enough to kill you. If somebody is after my possessions, I wouldn't fight. If someone is out to rape me, I would fight. Perhaps I could let them rape me and live, but I'd rather fight and risk rape and a beating (or death) than submit.
Let's not stop women from making that choice. They should know the possible repercussions, but if they want to use Rapex, they should be able to. It may not work out well for some people, but for some people it might save them from rape and save their lives as well.
Too bad we can't poison the barbs too.
I don't view this as revenge, it is part of fighting back to get away.
Furthermore, for every male that gets caught in this, he'll presumably be caught by the police. Perhaps he won't get to rape anyone else for a long time.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
A fast-acting poison (or knockout drug, more likely) would possibly be an effective means of stopping the rape *and* protecting the woman from being beaten or killed.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shigosei: A fast-acting poison (or knockout drug, more likely) would possibly be an effective means of stopping the rape *and* protecting the woman from being beaten or killed.
It'd also be an effective means of obtaining a rape victim.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Maybe if we built a large wooden badger...
Posted by RunningBear (Member # 8477) on :
3: Backup mini circular saw with slicing action, for the rapist with the higher threshold for pain and just will not take "No" for an answer.
Aaahah!
why not just have some sort of chemical that knocks out the would be rapist? that way they could be arrested!
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:Originally posted by RunningBear: why not just have some sort of chemical that knocks out the would be rapist? that way they could be arrested!
quote:I wrote, 2 posts earlier: It'd also be an effective means of obtaining a rape victim.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: I just wanted to add this to the discussion, as an indicator of another reaction South Africans have had regarding crime (article from 1998).
quote:Crime-obsessed South Africans have a powerful new weapon with which to stop likely criminals: the car flamethrower.
Casting a man-high fireball, reportedly with no damage to the paint, the Blaster has been placed on 25 South African vehicles since its introduction last month.
Stories like these make me not want to visit South Africa, that's for sure.
My main reason for not wanting to visit South Africa is the abominally high rape rate.
Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Knockout drugs are already a simple way of obtaining a victim. You do have a point that such things shouldn't be sold over the counter, though.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: I just wanted to add this to the discussion, as an indicator of another reaction South Africans have had regarding crime (article from 1998).
quote:Crime-obsessed South Africans have a powerful new weapon with which to stop likely criminals: the car flamethrower.
Casting a man-high fireball, reportedly with no damage to the paint, the Blaster has been placed on 25 South African vehicles since its introduction last month.
Stories like these make me not want to visit South Africa, that's for sure.
My main reason for not wanting to visit South Africa is the abominally high rape rate.
Violent crime rates as a whole are what keep me away. Its such a beautiful country too. Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
If you want police to be able to find the rapist quickly afterwards, assuming he could move very fast, I'd add an exploding dye pack for quick identification and because it would be funny.
I have zero sympathy for the rapist. He might get injured in a delicate place that might pain and humiliate him for life? Isn't that kinda what he was about to do to the woman? Instant karma, says I. However, women using this on men purposesly -- leading them on so they'll get hurt -- should be charged.
So then the problem becomes, what do you do in cases of he said, she said?
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
FlyingCow's link:
quote:Casting a man-high fireball, reportedly with no damage to the paint, the Blaster has been placed on 25 South African vehicles since its introduction last month.
Spiffy.
--j_k
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: If you want police to be able to find the rapist quickly afterwards, assuming he could move very fast, I'd add an exploding dye pack for quick identification and because it would be funny.
I have zero sympathy for the rapist. He might get injured in a delicate place that might pain and humiliate him for life? Isn't that kinda what he was about to do to the woman? Instant karma, says I. However, women using this on men purposesly -- leading them on so they'll get hurt -- should be charged.
So then the problem becomes, what do you do in cases of he said, she said?
You're probably going to get that problem the first time it's used. The man will claim that they were on a date or something and she used it maliciously. Possibly.
The problem between this and a false rape claim, while a false rape claim, in America, can ruin your life, this can ruin your life AND add injury to insult. I think, depending on the damage, it should be considered assault with a deadly weapon. The website says the device is non-fatal IF the attacker receives medical attention immediately. That doesn't automatically mean that not getting attention will result in death, but I'd be curious to see the studies done on it. Otherwise it'd be what, premeditated assault with a weapon? I'm not sure what the charge would be.
I guess the lesson to men here who find themselves on a really, really good first date, is to always look before you leap.
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
I like the knockout drug version, myself. Wasn't that used in Snow Crash?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
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