You heard it here first. Or maybe not. Judging from the large number of sites I came across while checking this out, it's a fairly well known fact. One which I was blissfully (and almost fatally) unaware of.
I've been eating a lot of apples lately. They're low cal, and some of them are pretty tasty. Personally, I've been snarfing Braeburns, both because they're yummy, and because they have very little core.
See, I'm a lazy eater. Back before I kept kosher, I'd eat the tails of shrimp. I eat peanuts in the shell (as long as the shell is salted as well -- if it's not, I'll pass entirely and wait for shelled ones). I won't even bother with oranges unless I know they're seedless. Or mostly seedless.
So when it comes to apples, I pretty much do the whole Mr. Ed thing, and eat them, core and all. If you have an apple with a lot of core, or with a really fibrous core, you can't really do it, but Braeburns are easy.
At first, I was eating everything but the seeds and the stem. But then I got tired of worrying about the seeds. And then I started getting headaches from the apples.
The first one, I thought it was a migraine coming on. It was pretty nasty, and started immediately after eating an apple. Not that I thought there was any connection. Until the next day, when I ate an apple, and immediately got a return of the pre-migraine feeling.
So I did a websearch. And found out that I'd been dosing myself with cyanide. Which, in retrospect, isn't the brightest thing I've ever done. To make things worse, I sometimes bit the seeds while eating, which broke through the protective coating and really let the poison into my system.
But I can definitely say that cyanide poisoning hurts. A lot. Which isn't a piece of information I ever expected to possess.
How long before someone decides apples need warning labels?
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
See?! This is what I need Hatrack for: My daily dose of "stuff I didn't know before"!
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
I know a few people who eat the whole apple and have never complained about anything like that.
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
I am one of those apple eaters. I didn't realize that they were destroying my life until it was too late. Now I'm campaigning for better laws, but you can read my whole story in my latest book. Get it for only 9.99$ + shipping!
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I knew about that. That's why it freaks me out when my rabbit tries to steal my apples.
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
I think peach pits also have cyanide in them.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Yes, but even I wouldn't eat a peach pit.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
Like there weren't enough "hey, this might kill you if you eat it" things in the world...
Posted by Bella Bee (Member # 7027) on :
My dog always spits apple pips out. I always wondered why she bothered to do that when she's not usually exactly discerning about what she eats.
And now maybe I know! It's probably a good survival trait.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
I've known about the cyanide thing for years (since I worked at my aunt and uncle's apple orchard as a kid) but I was always under the impression that the amount of cyanide in them was very low (i.e. you'd have to chug a large glass of just apple seeds in order to die of cyanide poisoning, but you'd probably die of a bowel obstruction or the like first)
but I'll admit that I never did research into the real numbers, and your experience seems to show that there may be at least some effect (though I don't know that I'd difinitively blame the cyanide yet, even if it is a likely suspect)
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Generally, the outer shell of the seed keeps the cyanide from getting into your digestive system. So swallowing them shouldn't be a problem. Unless, as you say, you swallow a ton of them. The problem was, I was eating an apple's worth of seeds every day, and generally chewing at least some of them in the process.
It's funny, because when I realized it might be the apple, I did a seach on "apple seeds poisonous". Thinking that I probably wouldn't find anything. But wow, did I find stuff.
Posted by johnsonweed (Member # 8114) on :
You generally need to actually chew them up for there to be any kind of problem. I'm not exactly sure how soluble cyanide is in saliva, which is mostly water. Presumably, one cup of apple seeds has enough cyanide to kill an adult human, but even then it would be pretty hard to eat and chew that many.
Someone above was right about peach and apricot pits as well. It is a character of many plants in this plant family.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
I guess this doesn't necessarily disprove my "cup" generalization either (since it doesn't appear that you were in any danger of serious physical harm) it just means that a smaller amount of cyanide may have a still noticable and unpleasant effect. either way I'll have to add that to my informativeness in future conversations regarding the danger of eating appleseeds.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I thought everyone knew that... The concentrations are higher in apricot pits, though.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Bernie just ate HALF AN APPLE! He probably ate the seeds too! He's driving me completely insane!
Posted by Perplexity'sDaughter (Member # 9668) on :
Come on. Shrimp tails? Yucky.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Apple seeds are poisonous
It was a key point in a murder mystery I read years and years back. Also, some people are far more sensitive than others. And as was mentioned, if you don't chew them, they will likely pass through your system intact.
The rabbit is probably fine. Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
This strikes me as a horrible way to kill someone: Bet them $20 that they can't eat and chew three cups of apple seeds...
Posted by kojabu (Member # 8042) on :
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
*feels wicked*
Posted by Steev (Member # 6805) on :
I'm still going to eat the core.
quote: About the only way you can actually ruin into a problem with the toxicity of apple seeds is if you save the seeds from about a bushel of apples and eat them all at once.
Richard E. Barrans Jr., Ph.D. Assistant Director PG Research Foundation, Darien, Illinois
Okay, those of you who eat the core: why? The core is fibrous, bitter, and generally icky, and it takes less total energy to throw it away than to try to ingest it. Why WOULD you eat the core?
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Perplexity'sDaughter: Come on. Shrimp tails? Yucky.
Nah, just crunchy. And since I generally had fried shrimp... well, you can eat just about anything fried. I eat the spines of fried chicken, I mean. Chew up right up.
Posted by Steev (Member # 6805) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Okay, those of you who eat the core: why? The core is fibrous, bitter, and generally icky, and it takes less total energy to throw it away than to try to ingest it. Why WOULD you eat the core?
There is actually quite a lot of apple in the core. Also I like not having to hold a sticky apple core when I'm in a situation where I can't dispose of it.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
You swallow your gum, too, don't you?
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
I had no idea that apple seeds were poisonous. When I was a boy I used to gorge myself on apples every night, I'd eat one-two and I am sure I ate most of the seeds though I usually did not eat the cores. I'd sneak them into bed in the middle of the night thinking my mom was oblivious, though I left the cores under my bed, in reality my mom was secretly pleased I was sneaking fresh fruit rather then candy to bed and just let it slide.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Steev:
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Okay, those of you who eat the core: why? The core is fibrous, bitter, and generally icky, and it takes less total energy to throw it away than to try to ingest it. Why WOULD you eat the core?
There is actually quite a lot of apple in the core. Also I like not having to hold a sticky apple core when I'm in a situation where I can't dispose of it.
Exactly.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: You swallow your gum, too, don't you?
Always have. Most of the time, anyway. Not that I've chewed gum for probably years, but when I did, sure.
Posted by Lavalamp (Member # 4337) on :
Fruiting plants have sort of made this deal with animal species, see, they give us (collectively) pollen, pretty flowers (generally), and some tasty fruits (the durian notwithstanding), and in return, we poop out their seeds and give the species a chance to colonize new neighborhoods.
Since seeds are nutritious also (sometimes more nutritious than the actual fruit), some plants have had to come up with ways to ensure that the seed survives its journey through the animal kingdom intact. Cyanide, cardiac glycosides, and various other plant "secondary compounds" are part of that defense.
Swallowing the seeds whole (generally) is what nature intended. Crushing (and thus killing the seed) or digesting the seed, is not.
It's kind of a pain for modern industrialized societies. We have to commit to a lot of wastage in things like apple juice and sauce processes just to be sure that the machines aren't nicking seeds open and pushing them through the strainers. Imagine the embarrassment to, say, Gerber baby foods if their product was found to contain cyanide!!!
So, they have to core apples with a lot of waste.
Anyway, eating seeds whole is not generally going to be a problem unless you eat way too many or have a particularly aggressive digestive tract.
I still wouldn't do it, but, for the most part, it's not going to be a problem.
IIRC, pear seeds are even higher in cyanide. I could be wrong. I'm betting that the amount of cyanide varies dramatically among the different apple varieties. Ones with a soft core might actually be expected to have more, rather than less, poison in them.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
Wow. How do you like them apples?
I love apples, and all my life I've eaten everything except the stem and the seeds. Well, sometimes I'll nibble a seed. They have a almond flavor. That's probably the cyanide.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
btw, while we're on the subject of apples: Can I have some moral support that Red Delicious are in fact amongst the worst varieties of apples on the planet for pretty much any purpose?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Nah. They make good applesauce. And they work fine for cooking. And my kids like to eat them, although I don't know why.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Red Delicious are completely misnamed.
Except for the red part.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
I LOVE Honeycrisp apples from farmer's markets in the fall.
Red delicious I don't bother with.
(I don't eat apple seeds, but I have been known to eat shrimp tails when they're fried.)
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
It is not the red delicious, but the golden delicious that is most appropriate for applesauce. The red delicious is a poor eating and cooking apple. Too bitter, too dry, skin too thick.
Looks pretty, though.
Posted by Dan_Frank (Member # 8488) on :
I always hated Red Delicious apples as a kid, and I loathed the fact that they were ALWAYS the apples provided with school lunches, snacks, etc.
Haven't eaten one in over a decade.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: It is not the red delicious, but the golden delicious that is most appropriate for applesauce. The red delicious is a poor eating and cooking apple. Too bitter, too dry, skin too thick.
The ones I get here (from Washington State, I think) are neither dry nor thick-skinned. Not bitter either, although they're pretty bland.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
i like Gala apples and painted ladies
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Braeburn are the yummiest eating apples. Are painted ladies anything like pink ladies?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
I've known about apple seeds being poisonous since an episode of GI Joe had them defeating a huge, genetically engineered blob thingie by luring it into an apple grove.
"Now I know!"
"And knowing is half the battle!"
"GO JOE!"
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
I've eaten apple seeds and the nuts out of peach pits many times.
My grandmother (who also did) said the cyanide in peach pits is locked in a chemical bond (I don't remember with what) and that the cyanide never actually gets absorbed into our system when we eat them. We ate them because of other, HELPFUL, properties they released, not the cyanide.
quote: And it turns out that peach seeds actually contain Cyanide, in the form of Amygdalin.
They’re not talking about pure cyanide, but about the Amygdalin. The thing is used in some anti-cancer medications in higher amounts, and studies found no side-effects in taking 500mg three times a day. Which would be about 1.7Kg of just the peach’s seeds per day. Not realistic.
“One hundred grams of moist peach seed contains 88 mg of cyanide, while an equivalent amount of apricot seed holds 217 mg.”
A single peach fruit of course doesn’t have nearly as much as a hundred grams of seed. But how dangerous is that amount, as a high level reference? Research shows 10.8mg per Kg of body weight per day is NOAEL (i.e. known to be safe). So for a petite person weighing 50Kg this would be about 610g of peach seeds, per day. And that’s before any adverse effects of long-time usage appear, and still very far from chocking and instant death.
People rarely eat a peach seed by mistake, usually the pit/stone is too tough to open and expose the seeds.
Compared with the massive amount of seeds a person will have to eat to get to the critical level, I’d say it’s not that big a concern. Heck, eating 600g of whole peaches a day would be a hard task. So that amount of just the seeds? The boredom and frustration, not to mention the horrible taste, will kill a person first.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: Braeburn are the yummiest eating apples. Are painted ladies anything like pink ladies?
The Pink Lady is a fine eating apple. I like my apples crisp and tart.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I forgot to correct that. I got my apples mixed up with butterflies. I also like Fuji applies too. or are they Fiji? Who can keep things straight?
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
Anyone remember laetrile (amygdalin), the debunked cancer cure from almond kernels?
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: I got my apples mixed up with butterflies. ... Who can keep things straight?
Remind me not to come by your house for apple pie.
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
I'm allergic to raw apples. But every couple of years I'll take an antihistamine and eat a couple of pieces of a Macintosh because I love them. Yes, I am aware that this is not wise.
Why couldn't I be allergic to chocolate, which is addictive and makes me fat? No, my body chooses to reject delicious, wholesome fresh fruit. Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
quote: Anyone remember laetrile (amygdalin), the debunked cancer cure from almond kernels?
Yes. (and it was most commonly from apricot kernels)
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Farmgirl: My grandmother (who also did) said the cyanide in peach pits is locked in a chemical bond (I don't remember with what) and that the cyanide never actually gets absorbed into our system when we eat them.
This is false. But it would still take a LOT of fruit pits to make it to a harmful dosage. But headaches like Lisa's are believable if you ate quite a few in one day. And large numbers of pits on a frequent basis could cause serious problems.
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: You swallow your gum, too, don't you?
I very rarely ever chew gum but when I do there is always a place to dispose of it. (If you know what I mean?)
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
quote: (If you know what I mean?)
I know what you mean. Exactly, what you mean.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester:
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: I got my apples mixed up with butterflies. ... Who can keep things straight?
Remind me not to come by your house for apple pie.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
How soon we forget. Most of you must be too young to remember the laetrile controversy, where things got so heated that some state health departments tried to ban sale of apricot kernels in health food stores, and some cancer patients fled to mexico to get laetrile treatments.
There are some things we need to know so we don't get hysterical about cyanide in foods. Vitamin B-12 (cyanocobalamin) is a cyanide compound. You have to have this in your diet. If defficient in it for too long, you will suffer permanent, irreversible nerve damage. Vitamin B-12 is the one vitamin vegans have to be careful about, because there are no sources of this nutrient in vegetables (except for torula yeast). You need only a trace amount, and taking a vitamin supplement that includes B-12 assures adequate intake.
The cyanide compound in apple seeds, apricot kernels, and the seed kernels in plums, cherries, peaches, etc., is called amygdalin or laetrile. It releases trace amounts of cyanide on hydrolysis by intestinal bacteria. This is very seldom dangerous for anyone, though under certain conditions (like eating alot of apple seeds or apricot kernels, especially on an empty stomach) you might feel a little sick briefly. Deaths have resulted on extremely rare occasions.
In 1950, Dr. Ernest T. Krebs perceived that the cyanide that was safely bound in the molecules of laetrile should be released by enzymes present at the site of malignant cancer cells; the free cyanide, though in amounts too little to have an adverse effect on healthy body cells, should destroy the more vulnerable cancer cells, he figured. He called laetrile "vitamin B-17," and thought for a while that cancer might be a defficiency disease caused by insufficient laetrile in the diet.
For about 20 years controversy raged back and forth over whether this was a legitimate cancer treatment. Most medical tests since then have shown that it does not work the way Dr. Krebs hoped, and few people today take laetrile seriously as a cancer cure.
Although, if you have cancer and want to try it, all you need are the pits from some apricots. Get the kernels out of them by cracking the pit. The kernels look like almonds. They are called "bitter almonds," because they have a bitter taste. It is believed that regular almonds were bred over centuries from apricots, to get rid of the bitter taste. This also resulted in a great reduction in the amount of amygdalin in almonds.
Those of you who remember your murder mysteries may recall that people who have been killed by cyanide poisoning have a scent something like almonds about their mouth and nose.
Few medical authorities see any reason to be concerned about eating a few apple seeds or apricot kernels if you want to. They taste so bitter, no one in their right mind would want to eat very much.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
quote: About the only way you can actually ruin into a problem with the toxicity of apple seeds is if you save the seeds from about a bushel of apples and eat them all at once.
This happened to a friend of a friend. Years ago, when we were talking about apples one time, she told about a friend of hers who *liked* apple seeds... REALLY liked apple seeds... and he saved up a lot of them to eat as a birthday treat...
I don't remember any other details from her story, but it really did happen -- she was upset by her friend's death, and made a point of mentioning it to other people to try and keep it from happening to anyone else.
Posted by ambyr (Member # 7616) on :
Organic red delicious straight from the farmer's market are tasty (and very small).
The big, shiny grocery store ones have all the flavor and consistency of wax.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
bernie ate my apple again. I have to hide those better. He ate almost the whole thing. INCLUDING THE SEEDS!
Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
I learned that as a kid from a Trixie Belden book.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
I guess there is always someone who will hanker to any kind of taste. Apricot kernels and apple seeds taste pretty bitter to me, and apparently this is so for most people. Almonds were bred for good reason. They taste a whole lot better than apricot kernels. Some people believe that almonds are the most healthful kind of nut available today. Higher protein to fat ratio, or something.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: It is believed that regular almonds were bred over centuries from apricots, to get rid of the bitter taste.
I doubt that very much. Almonds are attested to in biblical times, and apricots aren't attested to until much later.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
I had a Granny Smith today, and I nibbled on a couple of the seeds. I like the taste.
<-- not dead yet.
Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
Lisa, I found this on the history of cultivation of apricots:
quote:The center of diversity of the apricot is northeastern China near the Russian border (in the Great Wall area). From there it spread west throughout central Asia. Cultivation in China dates back 3000 years.
quote:Almond and related species are native to the Mediterranean climate region of the Middle East (Pakistan eastward to Syria and Turkey). The almond and its close relative, the peach, probably evolved from the same ancestral species in south-central Asia.
Almonds were domesticated at least by 3000 BC, and perhaps much earlier since wild almonds have been unearthed in Greek archeological sites dating to 8000 BC.
And here is this on the history of cultivation of peaches:
quote:Peaches were probably the first fruit crop domesticated in China about 4000 years ago. Cultivars grown today derive largely from ecotypes native to southern China, an area with climate similar to that of the southeastern USA, a major peach growing region.
According to the second source, almonds are most closely related to peaches. So maybe the speculation that almonds were bred from apricots is mistaken. Almonds and apricots share the subgenus Amygdalus. Apparently that is where the name amygdalin comes from, as a name for the cyanide-containing compound in the almond-like kernels.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
i *like* the taste of apple seeds. I sometimes peeled and ate them just because i liked the taste. Also apricot seeds. Love those.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: So maybe the speculation that almonds were bred from apricots is mistaken.
<nod> Also, the sources you posted put almonds 5000 years ago, and the other fruits 3000 or 4000 years ago.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
Apparently, cyanide accumulates. Which means that in effect, I did eat a very large amount, even if it wasn't at one sitting.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
The body can rid itself of less-than-toxic doses of cyanide, but it takes time -- at least weeks, and with larger amounts, months or longer -- to do so.
Posted by Lisa (Member # 8384) on :
So... how do you accelerate the process? I'm exhausted, but that could be just exhaustion. My doctor thinks I may have sleep apnea (I'm going in for a sleep study on Wednesday night).
Frakkin' apples.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
The only methods I've ever heard of are from nuts wanting to sell miracle cures. Posted by Ron Lambert (Member # 2872) on :
There are chelating agents that are used to remove cyanide from the body.
quote: ��Hydroxocobalamine –Direct chelating agent –used in Europe and Australia –5g in 100 mL (500 mg in children) –Give with thiosulfate? –Does not cause methemoglobinemia or hypotension ��Dicobalt-EDTA –Used in Europe, Israel, Australia –Dose -300-600 mg –Adverse effects: hypotension, dysrhythmias, angioedema –Worse if CN-not present
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