If I don't get a job soon. I lost my temp job that I liked so much on Friday. Now I am unemployed. I hate being unemployed. I need a job right now, but how do people find jobs? Currently I have a resume on Monster, one on Career Builder. I applied to a few jobs on Friday online, such as one for a bank teller at a place that is walking distance from my house. I am tired of temp jobs and want a permanant job so I can get things on tract. If I don't get a job in two weeks, I'll simply find a way to turn to crime. Or maybe I'll teach English in Japan. I don't want to live with my mother.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
You're in luck. Black ski masks are in this time of year.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:I need a job right now, but how do people find jobs?
They acquire skills.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Helpful. In order to acquire skills, one has to have a job... In order to have a job, you got to have skills. At least I managed to stay on this job for a full year and could always say I got an extra year's worth of experience...
I hate, despise and LOATH being back in this stupid position again.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:In order to acquire skills, one has to have a job...
That's not true, actually. What do you want to do?
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
What I want is a job that will make me between 13-20 bucks an hour doing administrative work because I will not go back to retail unless it's just for a month to keep from going down the hole. I want a job that is not torture to go to so I can get back on track, start paying all of these bills and student loans and improve and upgrade my situation. I would prefer to have a job in the town of rockland or nearby that doesn't involve too much commuting.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
What is your education and experience?
What types of jobs have you done before? When you say administrative, are you talking mainly clerical - like an administrative assistant?
What are your computer skills like? Do you have experience supervising anyone?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:What I want is a job that will make me between 13-20 bucks an hour doing administrative work because I will not go back to retail unless it's just for a month to keep from going down the hole.
How fast do you type? Are you familiar with Microsoft Outlook? Do you look professional?
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I type very fast, when my wrists don't hurt too much. I've done jobs that range from tutoring children one on one, bagging groceries and clerical work. I have very good computer skills. I'm somewhat familiar with outlook, but I don't know about looking professional.... I have a couple articles of respectable clothes, but I need more.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
When you say "very fast," how fast are we talking? Are you fast enough for transcription work?
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Pretty fast, but I'm not sure if I want to do that. My mother does that ><. There's got to be something else I can do. Like correspondence again. I loved doing that.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
I taught English in Japan for a year. It was a very interesting experience, and lucrative for me because I lived in the boonies so I didn't have to spend much on housing, etc. I was also VERY frugal. I'd be happy to talk to you about it (ups and downs) if it would be helpful.
Good luck finding something you like!!!!
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: Pretty fast, but I'm not sure if I want to do that. My mother does that ><. There's got to be something else I can do. Like correspondence again. I loved doing that.
Now's not the time to be picky about work.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Don't care... I really want to move forward instead of backwards and not have to go through the same stuff I went through over the last few years. There really has to be a way to do better... There's a lot at stake. I'll take what I can get, but I really, really want to do better
Posted by FlyingCow (Member # 2150) on :
You can always look into a staffing agency such as Account Temps or the like. You can go in and take a bunch of proficiency tests on various office software packages and establish your actual typing speed, then see what sorts of positions are available in your area.
Even if you don't want to pursue the temp route, it might be a good idea to go in for the evaluation and talk with one of their case managers - if only to get a better idea of your skill set and what you can use to build a resume.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I'm going to Office Team tomorrow and maybe Broadview which got me this job could get me another one... But in the past the jobs have been downgraded in terms of pay, duration and work. So I'm going to try as many places as possible, the bank nearby, various places on the net, that job search thing on the unemployment site, newspapers online, and if all else fails, Target or retail again. I don't want to do retail, but I'll do it for a month or so until I can get something better. But working temp again is vaguely depressing. I hate the lack of holiday pay and benefits and the sense of doom and forboding...
Also, If I really want this job I saw online and there's a phone number, should I call? I am afraid to... Maybe I could email them from my proper business email address.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
One big step forward would be figuring out how to keep your job.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
quote:I am afraid to...
Oh well.
Also, register with Spherion and possibly one other temp company. If the temp companies are worried you'll get on elsewhere first, they will hustle. If you're only with one, the urgency isn't really there for them.
What were you doing at your temp job? Was that the correspondence? Various companies have different contracts, but after a year you might be able to apply for a direct hire at that company, if they had a good experience with you. The funding of payroll is different from funding for temp (one is overhead, the other is expense).
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
I was in about the same position and got a job as a front desk clerk at a hotel. The job itself isn't great, mainly because you often have very angry people to deal with. But the industry offers a whole lot of room to move into better positions that aren't customer oriented, and can be great training for other industries (ie. sales, accounts recievable, accounts payable, human resources, etc).
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Primal Curve: One big step forward would be figuring out how to keep your job.
But I already lost my job. I had it for a year after losing it over the same thing back in November of 2005. I got it back in July of 06 and they seemed to have wanted to keep me. In fact they said they were trying to keep me but with the move there was no funding for me to stay. It's deeply depressing because I really was doing over 106 letters a day and I have the sore imflame wrists to prove it. It's deeply disapointing.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
quote:Originally posted by Primal Curve: One big step forward would be figuring out how to keep your job.
With a lot of temp jobs, this is not in the worker's control at all.
I'm a bit surprised at how unhelpful Tom's first post was. To acquire skills, one generally needs either a job at which to acquire skills, or the money to pay for training (which for most people means a source of income a.k.a. a job). It's a common enough problem for a lot of young workers.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: When you say "very fast," how fast are we talking? Are you fast enough for transcription work?
Tell me about this transcription work you spoke of, I think I'd very much enjoy typing at a brisk pace all day.
Posted by lem (Member # 6914) on :
quote:What I want is a job that will make me between 13-20 bucks an hour doing administrative work because I will not go back to retail unless it's just for a month to keep from going down the hole. I want a job that is not torture to go to so I can get back on track, start paying all of these bills and student loans and improve and upgrade my situation. I would prefer to have a job in the town of rockland or nearby that doesn't involve too much commuting.
In my experience, this is the WRONG way to get a job. I was saving this for a landmark, but I will write some here because I will think it will help.
I got married and divorced by the time I was 24 and fresh out of the University. The divorce wrecked me financially. We had no debt, but I had a useless degree and took a student loan to pay for her move. The initial financial strain is not what wrecked me. I let the loan go bad. Bills went unpaid. Then a credit card or two went to collections.
I took a couple years off my life and moved in with a girl whom I liked and had a really charged physical relationship with. My wife left me for another man and I was looking for reassurance of my "manhood."
Here is my point: during those years I approached employment all wrong. I was looking for a "pay range," not a job. I wanted 11-18 dollars an hour. I worked at a paging company, retail, and other crap jobs. They were mostly below my pay range.
My need for stable good employment got so desperate I convinced myself that an ad in the newspaper for a manager of a perfume store was legit and I might make 40k a year.
I think the saddest day in my life was being mid 20s and finding myself in a parking lot being asked to go into stores selling knock-off perfume.
Going after a "pay range" lead me to classifieds and crap. In the process I wrecked..nay, destroyed my credit--blasted to the low 500s with all sorts of black marks.
I swallowed my pride and moved in with my mom asking myself how did I get to such a low. I got a job at Wal*mart and youth corrections (two places that always need employees to abuse) and worked 50+ hours a week until I payed off all my debts.
I got married again. I wouldn't marry her until I payed off my debts, and I have been living debt free since. Actually that has kept my credit score down since you need good debt to build up credit, but that is another story.
Anyway, I decided going after a pay range was the wrong way to go and I target a specific job I wanted: Teacher. I got my foot in the door being an aide in a computer lab and started to go back to school for my Masters in education. I could have taken student loans, but we saved money--being married to a frugal person and having two incomes has its advantages.
I loved computers and gave up on student teaching and focused on computers. Each year, since I started Hatrack, I got better pay, more hours (I started off at 15 hours a week at $9 an hour and still had to do some youth corrections), and more benefits. I threw my heart and soul into this one job and they rewarded me accordingly each year until I was in my “pay range” I wanted with insurance. This year they created a new job (basically what I was doing with some district level responsibilities), a $27,000 a year raise, much better benefits, and a nicer contract—this was after three years of significant raises, added benefits, and more hours.
I love my job. It is a weird feeling.
We just bought a town home well within our budget that fits our needs and is better than the rat-hole we rented. My mortgage broker also is a licensed credit counselor, and even tho our loan has a high interest rate now, when we refinance in two years our credit will be MUCH better. I am in my early 30s and I FINALLY learned about credit!
We are also due to have our second child in September. We feel/are so blessed. We spent a couple years in abject poverty, but we had a goal. I am not a teacher, but that initial goal propelled me in the right direction.
My wife quit her job to stay in our new modest home to raise our kids. When they get older, she will go back to teaching.
I went through years of darkness where I felt lost, but I now make more then our previous combined income. I share this because when I read that you were looking for a “pay range” and what you didn't want, it reminded me in full of all the crap jobs I had that lead me to a day of selling perfume on the streets before I walked off.
When you have something specific you like, then you can work towards it. You can make concrete goals, specific sacrifices, and you will be amazed at the doors that will open--in my experience.
When you job shop for "pay" or "working conditions," there is nothing really specific you can work towards and it leads to the classifieds and failure. The good jobs are not in classifieds--in my experience.
It does get better. Don't give up. Change your approach.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Olivet:
quote:Originally posted by Primal Curve: One big step forward would be figuring out how to keep your job.
With a lot of temp jobs, this is not in the worker's control at all.
I've had (and lost) temp jobs. The one thing I found that kept me from keeping those jobs was myself. During that period of my life, I was very unstable and tended to slack off at work. Once I got all of that in order, I was on my way up, not down.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:To acquire skills, one generally needs either a job at which to acquire skills, or the money to pay for training (which for most people means a source of income a.k.a. a job).
See, this isn't true. The skills I used to enter my current career were acquired entirely on my own -- no money required. You can teach yourself basic programming fairly easily, and Office macros literally over a weekend. If you type fairly quickly and know how to use the HLOOKUP() function, the only thing keeping you out of an office pool is your resume.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
quote:I'm a bit surprised at how unhelpful Tom's first post was. To acquire skills, one generally needs either a job at which to acquire skills, or the money to pay for training (which for most people means a source of income a.k.a. a job). It's a common enough problem for a lot of young workers.
Untrue, especially with regard to administrative work, unless you count paying $20-$35 for a book at the bookstore as "paying for training." With $150 in books and 8 hours a day, you could become proficient with the entire MS Office Suite--Outlook, Word, Excel, Powerpoint, all the major business apps--in two weeks. Quickbooks would take you a day, tops. Goldmine, another day. Access, a day for most ordinary user tasks. And that's just software training!
Syn, how's your local craigslist?
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Primal Curve:
quote:Originally posted by Olivet:
quote:Originally posted by Primal Curve: One big step forward would be figuring out how to keep your job.
With a lot of temp jobs, this is not in the worker's control at all.
I've had (and lost) temp jobs. The one thing I found that kept me from keeping those jobs was myself. During that period of my life, I was very unstable and tended to slack off at work. Once I got all of that in order, I was on my way up, not down.
In this case I wasn't slacking off, but I did do 106 letters a day. but it would take me ages to envelope them ><
What I really want to do is write, but it's depressing to talk about that, like discussing a secret embarassing crush on someone you probably can't have. Not a good attitude, but still, it's the main thing I want to do or a secure job so I can do the thing I really want to do and still be able to pay the rent. I just don't want to go back to working retail again anytime soon unless I have no choice. The best bet would be to take another temp job just to have a job.
I forgot about Craigslist...
But I must avoid getting a second free rabbit.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
106 letters a day is less than 5 minutes per letter - that's pretty darn good. Plus, it sounds as if they agree that you've done really well. Can you get them to write you a letter of recommendation that you can hold and use as needed? Officially informing the temp agency how well you did would be a big help, too - knowing you're unlikely to disappoint a different client makes it more likely they'll look to you first.
I'm sorry you're going through all this. In the meantime, the suggestion to quantify and improve your clerical skills is a good idea. For clerical work, government jobs are very good, and governments like test results and certifications.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:To acquire skills, one generally needs either a job at which to acquire skills, or the money to pay for training (which for most people means a source of income a.k.a. a job).
See, this isn't true. The skills I used to enter my current career were acquired entirely on my own -- no money required. You can teach yourself basic programming fairly easily, and Office macros literally over a weekend. If you type fairly quickly and know how to use the HLOOKUP() function, the only thing keeping you out of an office pool is your resume.
It also depends on what you want to do, and the person's ability to acquire skills without assistance.
I take back what I said, though-- that is probably good advice for you and those like you. Me, I spent weeks trying to learn basic and never got anywhere with it. Different people acquire knowledge differently. So while you advice may be helpful to Syn and others, it would not have helped me at all.
I suppose we all tend to measure corn in our own half bushel. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Letters of recommendation are an excellent idea! Even if your immediate supervisor won't give you one, try to find one or two individuals with decent titles at the place you last worked who will write something glowing about the work you did for them. They're especially important if you're going the self-trained route.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I feel so ashamed that I got so weepy in front of them on Friday. I was trying very hard not to though. But, I did get a call right away for a job I just applied for! That makes me feel a bit better. I might not get it, but it makes me feel more hopeful.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac:
quote:I'm a bit surprised at how unhelpful Tom's first post was. To acquire skills, one generally needs either a job at which to acquire skills, or the money to pay for training (which for most people means a source of income a.k.a. a job). It's a common enough problem for a lot of young workers.
Untrue, especially with regard to administrative work, unless you count paying $20-$35 for a book at the bookstore as "paying for training." With $150 in books and 8 hours a day, you could become proficient with the entire MS Office Suite--Outlook, Word, Excel, Powerpoint, all the major business apps--in two weeks. Quickbooks would take you a day, tops. Goldmine, another day. Access, a day for most ordinary user tasks. And that's just software training!
Point taken. I'm trying to learn Adobe premiere right now, and will probably take a class on Photoshop (since I've been unable to learn with books, online tutorials and even help from a spouse with experience- his expertise is technical, and I'm trying to learn digital painting). I have a great antipathy for clerical stuff, and technology and I are like oil and water.
I worked for the government for many years. I was hired without testing or classifications, basically hired because I graduated summa cum laude. I even told them, "I don't type."
*shrug* It paid really well. I suppose my experience is atypical. Everyone said that, as an English Major, I should be working in fast food. Instead, I Gumped into a cushy job with good pay and benefits. One I was very good at, oddly enough.
I can only assume that the Universe loves me. Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Iem: That was VERY interesting! My favorite part was,
quote:Each year, since I started Hatrack, I got better pay, more hours...
I must be getting a different version of hatrack, what edition of hatrack are you currently posting in?!
I think I agree with what you were saying about finding a job instead of a pay range.
Synesthesia: There is TONS of work out there. I love getting called the same day I apply as well, its a real ego booster to see them coming after you instead of vice versa.
In Utah they have a website for the Department of Work Force Services. I am confident every state has a comparable website. I've found my last two jobs using it, and I've been very happy with the functionality and listing.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I just found out the Deparment of Labor has a Women's Bureau. I mean, maybe it's just a lot of "we've got to show we're doing something about this problem" but maybe you should have a look around.
As someone who hires people, a quick piece of advise. Just try to be as confident and positive as possible when you go in for your interview. Confidence makes a great first impression. Good luck with the company that called you.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:I Gumped into a cushy job with good pay and benefits.
That verbage awesomes.
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
You don't happen to live in the Minneapolis area, do you? The company I work for is hiring entry-level call center reps, and probably will be throughout the summer.
--Enigmatic
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: That verbage awesomes.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Enigmatic: You don't happen to live in the Minneapolis area, do you? The company I work for is hiring entry-level call center reps, and probably will be throughout the summer.
--Enigmatic
Dang. I don't live there and I have flairing social phobia, which I am trying to get rid of. I simply a bit afraid of call center jobs... It's a ridiculous fear though.
Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
Welcome to Hatrack Pam Tyler!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
quote:I Gumped into a cushy job with good pay and benefits.
That verbage awesomes.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy:
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: That verbage awesomes.
I ad-libbed. What of it?
Posted by Enigmatic (Member # 7785) on :
quote: Each year, since I started Hatrack, I got better pay, more hours...
Okay, I had to check. Since I started posting on Hatrack my base pay has increased 48.6%! Hooray Hatrack!
(The real change is probably not that much though, since I used to get overtime and now I'm salaried.)
--Enigmatic
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
Look at local Universities and their websites. The turnover is pretty high for lower level positions, so they will always be hiring admin people.
It's how I got my job.
Posted by Ben (Member # 6117) on :
Since I started at Hatrack my Salary has increased 100% and is about to increase further.
Hatrack = mo' money.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I credit my pay increases to global warming.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
My salary increased by infinity% since I started at Hatrack.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Liz B: I taught English in Japan for a year. It was a very interesting experience, and lucrative for me because I lived in the boonies so I didn't have to spend much on housing, etc. I was also VERY frugal. I'd be happy to talk to you about it (ups and downs) if it would be helpful.
Good luck finding something you like!!!!
Can you tell us how you came upon this job / got hired and went? This is something I've been contemplating very strongly (either in Japan or Argentina)
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Javert: Look at local Universities and their websites. The turnover is pretty high for lower level positions, so they will always be hiring admin people.
It's how I got my job.
There is Harvard to consider. I could use the library if I worked there. Perhaps I will try again.
Posted by Liz B (Member # 8238) on :
I did the JET program right out of college, so it's been 10 years this month since I got back. Their website is VERY informative. Of course, it's not the only way to become an English teacher in Japan--but it worked really well for me. I liked it because I taught elementary & middle school students in the public schools (as well as a few adult learners), instead of mostly adults.
I was proficient in Japanese when I went, so it was OK that I was in the middle of nowhere.
It was a great experience, but the work itself was frustrating and I was often lonely. Still, I credit that experience as inspiring me to return to grad school to become a teacher.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
Also, crime is a surprisingly easy thing to turn to. It's always there, just to your right, shaped like a canvas sack with a dollar sign on it.
Although I usually suggest corporate crime, which is to your left and shaped like a corporate jet on it's way to Tijuana.
Posted by Pam Tyler (Member # 10595) on :
Thanks for the welcome, Belle.
Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: That verbage awesomes.
I thought it was fairly descriptive of what happened, and the way you phrased the above was quite evocative, if you ask me. Language is a living thing, after all.
Syn, I wish you the best with your job hunt! I'm a telephone phobic person myself, but exposure helps. *hug*
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by Olivet: I thought it was fairly descriptive of what happened, and the way you phrased the above was quite evocative, if you ask me.
Bah! He stole it from me. Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
That's true. I owe JB mechanical royalties for that usage.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ben: Since I started at Hatrack my Salary has increased 100% and is about to increase further.
Hatrack = mo' money.
Let's see. When I started at Hatrack I was teaching part time. Then I was not working and attempting to become an actuary *shudder* but God had mercy and made sure I failed the test.
Now I'm making considerably more than when I started at Hatrack, but not as much as I would be had I actually become an actuary. I'm ok with that. Posted by scholar (Member # 9232) on :
My husband has actuary on his list of potential careers. What was so awful about it? My husband is currently working on a masters in math, tutoring at Sylvan part time. And before that, he was a high school teacher.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
All the parts of calculus I disliked the first time, minus most of the parts I liked. Plus (dear God!) statistics.
It's a great job for many people. My mom's friend has worked as an actuary for 20 years and loves it. I think it would have made me insane.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
quote:Originally posted by Enigmatic:
quote: Each year, since I started Hatrack, I got better pay, more hours...
Okay, I had to check. Since I started posting on Hatrack my base pay has increased 48.6%! Hooray Hatrack!
(The real change is probably not that much though, since I used to get overtime and now I'm salaried.)
--Enigmatic
Mine has increased about 160%, but that isn't saying much considering how low I started. Posted by Belle (Member # 2314) on :
My salary has plummeted to zero since I started Hatrack.
And, when I graduate I will, if all goes well, have a job paying LESS than the one I left six years ago.
If you want to be rich one day kiddos, I'm not your role model. Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: My salary increased by infinity% since I started at Hatrack.
Were you unemployed or not working when you joined hatrack?
As for myself my salery has in fact increased 40% since joining hatrack.
Posted by Nighthawk (Member # 4176) on :
My salary is currently at... well... zero.
Thanks, Hatrack!
***grumble...***
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: My salary increased by infinity% since I started at Hatrack.
Were you unemployed or not working when you joined hatrack?
As for myself my salery has in fact increased 40% since joining hatrack.
I was in law school, and I worked the next summer as an unpaid intern.
I had one summer's salary after my second year, and then full time work starting August after graduation.
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: You can teach yourself basic programming fairly easily
But which language? When I was studying computer science, it seemed like I never learned the right languages to get a non-student job. It was very frustrating.
--Mel
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
My salary since I started reading Hatrack...went up and peaked at about a 611% increase and has gone back down, and now it's about 354% of what it was when I started.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee:
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: My salary increased by infinity% since I started at Hatrack.
Were you unemployed or not working when you joined hatrack?
As for myself my salery has in fact increased 40% since joining hatrack.
I was in law school, and I worked the next summer as an unpaid intern.
I had one summer's salary after my second year, and then full time work starting August after graduation.
See I understand that unpaid intern positions still offer valuable resume building opportunities/experience. But besides taking out loans or somehow running a side business how do you afford to go an entire summer without income, assuming family/friends are not doling out money?
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I worked for 11 years at my own company, and I sold my share to my partner before going to law school.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Any of the following languages or language families can secure you gainful employment programming in many locations: Java, C++, .Net, and, strangely, Cobol. I'm leaving off most 'scripting languages' either due to relatively low popularity (though there are still plenty of jobs in Python, for instance) or high salary variability (javascript and php can be good programming jobs, but lots of places try to hire people to program them for substandard wages). The ones I list first are in approximate order from most commonly to least commonly taught in CS programs. I would not call C++ easy to learn, but the others aren't too bad.
Some of the languages commonly taught in computer science are not directly very employable, but are excellent for learning how to write good code. I'm looking at scheme, in particular. However, unless the program either offers courses teaching additional languages or the student goes out of his way to learn one or more, that skill can be relatively useless.
The biggest failing with CS departments in my experience is not what languages they teach, but what level of programming they teach. When I say good code above, I mean relatively well structured code for small projects. Large projects are very different entities, and very few computer science departments teach good programming practices that scale up in the real world. This is particularly true of practices not directly part of programming, like version control and bug tracking.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: I worked for 11 years at my own company, and I sold my share to my partner before going to law school.
So what you're saying is there is something to this "entrepreneur" schtick I keep hearing about?
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Yep.
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
quote:Originally posted by fugu13: Any of the following languages or language families can secure you gainful employment programming in many locations: Java, C++, .Net, and, strangely, Cobol.
See, I know (well, knew) Java, but at the time I guess it was just too new because the only jobs I was able to get programming in it were student jobs at my university. I really haven't been involved in the cs world for a good six or seven years now. So are you saying that if I brushed off and updated my Java skills, I could get an entry-level programming job (assuming there were any in my area)? Do you recommend any particular books to accomplish this?
I'm really not all that eager to re-enter the workforce, but financially we're slowly sinking. If I have to work outside the home at all, I'd rather be programming than working retail, food service, or office.
--Mel
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I've seen java postings on CL in the last few months (which is about how long I've been regularly checking CL) with relative frequency (at least one every two weeks or so).
Posted by Javert Hugo (Member # 3980) on :
I was making $0 when I started Hatrack, so I'm not sure how to calculate the percentage.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Yes, Java is highly employable. I suspect your issues with finding a job were more related to the general problems finding an IT job shortly after the dot-com bubble.
You'll find java has changed a lot since you were learning it, though it should still be recognizable. The big changes are generic types and annotation.
A good place to brush up might be Thinking in Java, which is available free from the author. It does not have information on generics or annotations, but while those are useful they will be fairly easy to pick up on once you're back up to speed: http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIJ/
It is often important with Java to be familiar with a particular set of libraries for certain jobs. If working in a JEE shop, you'd need to be familiar with Enterprise JavaBeans, for instance. If working on a GUI app, you might need to know Swing or SWT (or AWT).
Many Java shops are still using applications written in older versions of Java, so that should be less of a change. Those that have adopted modern changes often use libraries like Spring extensively, so depending on your job market it might be useful to learn that, or it might be useless (at least in immediate practicality, I find Spring extremely useful for figuring out good ways to structure code).
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
quote:Originally posted by fugu13: Yes, Java is highly employable. I suspect your issues with finding a job were more related to the general problems finding an IT job shortly after the dot-com bubble.
Yes, I think that was the case. I just had no idea that things had gotten better in the last six years! I'll check out that site.
One last thing. I don't actually have a degree. How big of an issue is that generally in programming now? I took most of the cs classes that I needed (again, 6-8 years ago) for a degree, but I would still need quite a lot of general classes to actually graduate. Going to school isn't an option at the moment.
--Mel
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Yeah, in the past couple years in particular demand for IT staff has grown considerably.
Needing a degree would really depend on the area. Some employers really require them, some say they require them but can deal with a qualified applicant without one, and others don't care. If your school was relatively local, a professor might well be able to help you with some connections. That's often the best way to find programming work. Alternatively, a local college or university might have part time programming jobs that they can't find enough students qualified to fill (and try to get in contact with the smaller units at the school; part time job postings often do not percolate well; going to the school's part time job fair might make sense, too).
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
Unfortunately, I went to school in Arizona and now live in Ohio, so I doubt any of my professors would have any contacts. I hardly remember the names of most of them, anyhow. Well, we'll see how this goes. Thanks for the information.
--Mel
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Yesterday I went to another temp agency. I got to call them and the other one I'm using tomorrow. But mostly I want my old job back. I loved that job. I saw a co-worker at the store yesterday and she said they should just hire me permanantly since they have so much work! The one thing I hate about a lot of temp jobs is when they don't have enough work for me to do, so I have to either sit there and pretend to be working or complain about the lack of work and get sent home early losing pay. The old job had tons of letters that needed to get done in a day, and since the workers produce so many reports, it's hard to get caught up on that. No wonder I was afraid to ask about staying there. Dang, I want to go back. I'd be on report sheet 3 I think by now... which would be between 85-87 letters if there's no errors on the report. Or maybe I'd be on the third one wishing I was on the 4th one because I'd really have to hustle to finish by 3 O' clock. I should never get too attached but I miss it despite the pain in my wrist.
Posted by orlox (Member # 2392) on :
Synesthesia - I am curious, do you really have synesthesia?
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I do In a variety of weird ways Posted by orlox (Member # 2392) on :
I would be very interested in those ways if you are not adverse to discussing them. I have been studying synesthesia quite intently for about a year now. Any cool links you have would also be appreciated.
I am one of those people who think that synesthesia is the key to understanding consciousness, art and religiosity.
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
I experience everything as PowerPoint slides.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by orlox: I would be very interested in those ways if you are not adverse to discussing them. I have been studying synesthesia quite intently for about a year now. Any cool links you have would also be appreciated.
I am one of those people who think that synesthesia is the key to understanding consciousness, art and religiosity.
Cool. I do weird things like- See colours in music based on keys Smell songs, abstract concepts have smells to me as well as individual people. If I am listening to a song I can almost "smell" who wrote it or who's playing it, but it's not a real smell though like garlic or oranges. I also can taste and smell words too.
Posted by orlox (Member # 2392) on :
Which abstract concepts and which words? If I may ask. Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Just about all of them. Christianity, Islam, Lesbianism, Atheism. All of them have smells Not to mention the way some songs feel in my veins and on my skin.
Posted by orlox (Member # 2392) on :
Very cool! How about numbers and dates, months etc.?
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I don't have number synesthesia... like seeing colours with numbers. But words have tastes and smells, not so much numbers.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
I don't know what to say. I like getting a job by putting in an application like a good democrat, receiving a call and going on an interview. I can't quite explain why this works in some cities and fails in others. I think it's a matter of the working mentality that varies from city to city. I'm not going to say that the job market is all fair and just and nice and honest. I will tell you that a lot of people lie to themselves and to others about how they came to be considered for their job and why, but I guess you have to keep on rolling.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Ahh the cynicism of the Chicago machine begins to set into Irami's veins...
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by Zalmoxis: I experience everything as PowerPoint slides.
That's not synesthesia. It just means you're working for a corporation.
Posted by orlox (Member # 2392) on :
Wow. Your form of synesthesia, lexical-gustatory, is very rare. And very interesting. I still have lots of questions but I don't want to be too pushy. Please indicate if you would like to me to drop the whole thing, or, if you are still up for some questions, if you would prefer an e-mail exchange.
I am currently wondering:
Does anyone else in your family have synesthesia and if so what type?
Do all proper names induce a taste/smell?
Have you noticed phonetic similarity in your response? Does 'Barbara' taste like rhubarb?
Do odd-sounding screen names work too? I can't help but wonder what orlox tastes like! Or names like King of Men, do you experience it as something different than if the words were not a proper noun? In other words your normal 'king' response plus your normal 'men' response or something else completely.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:See, I know (well, knew) Java, but at the time I guess it was just too new because the only jobs I was able to get programming in it were student jobs at my university. I really haven't been involved in the cs world for a good six or seven years now. So are you saying that if I brushed off and updated my Java skills, I could get an entry-level programming job (assuming there were any in my area)? Do you recommend any particular books to accomplish this?
I am a professional java developer in a J2EE shop. If you can get into the field, it is absolutely on fire right now. I was hired at 46K, but after 2 years I am now making 74K, to give you an idea of just how in demand J2EE developers are.
However, from what I've seen, no one will even want to talk to you without at least a BA in Computer Science, with a preference for the BS.
On the other hand, there are far more Java jobs in my area than there are candidates to fill them, so perhaps you can get your foot in the door without a degree. A great cover-letter, and some independent research into the specific topics interviewers are looking for, will probably be the key to overcoming that hurdle.
This will show your potential employer that you at least know the language. I'd suggest getting certified for 5.0. It isn't an easy certification to get, so watch out. You can't just say "Oh, I know Java" and walk out with the certification. Serious studying of preparation materials is required for a good score.
Even if you don't get the certification ($200), I'd still study for it. If you know enough about Java to pass it, congrats, you know the language better than 80% of the engineers I've worked with. We've had guys hired with "5 years Java experience" who didn't know what an ArrayList is. A lot of interviewers will grill you on Java concepts (such as multithreading or inheritance) and if you can't answer the question well, your resume goes in the trash.
Getting Java knowledge is a great first step, but in order to get a job, you need to demonstrate not only knowing the language, but the skillset for the specific area the company is looking for. Fugu mentions GUI shops, but I've seen perhaps one or two job posts total for these in my area.
If you want to make the best chance of getting a Java job, you need to look into getting employed by a J2EE shop. For the Omaha area, at least 75% of all listed positions for programmer are J2EE jobs. These positions are difficult for employers to fill, because no one gets taught J2EE in college. I got a J2EE job by studying like crazy for a couple of weeks, and then putting a "J2EE" category in the skill section of my resume.
If you can study your butt off so that you can talk intelligently at an interview about J2EE concepts, you may have a chance.
You should know the basics of EJBs, Servlets, JSPs, and at least have an idea of what the different application servers are (JBoss, Weblogic, Websphere).
Don't learn EJBs in particular depth, however, because Hibernate and Spring are quickly replacing EJBs for most new projects. You need to know what the different types of beans do, and that's about it. If the shop that's going to hire you still does EJBs, then start your in depth research.
It's also necessary to be able to claim some database experience. "I've worked with Oracle" is good enough, I've found. Know the basics of SQL (simple select statement is all, really), and then if there is a database you can claim you have experience with (DB2, Oracle, SQLServer, MySQL) then do so. Once they know you have worked with one database system, the other types are trivial. Hibernate/Entity Beans/JDBC hide the specific database implementation from you as a coder anyway.
If you are really serious about getting a Java job, I would suggest:
1) Getting Java (5.0) Certified (will probably take a good month or two of studying) 2) Learning the basics of J2EE (couple of weeks) 3) Downloading Eclipse, and Apache Tomcat and creating a very simple web app. (a few hours, if you follow a tutorial to set up, a couple of days to make the app) 4) Use Hibernate, Servlets, and JSPs in your small web app. At least enough to talk intelligently about them. (a couple of weeks) 5) Know what these terms mean: CVS, JUnit, Struts, XML, Spring, SOA, Ant, Web Service, JMS, JDBC, DOM vs SAX, Design Patterns. If you are applying for a job with an acronym, spend 15 minutes reading about what that acronym stands for before the interview. 6) Don't wait for all this to be finished to start looking and applying for jobs. Apply to positions you aren't qualified for! My last position I applied for wanted 6 years of experience minimum. I have 2. I got the interview, blew them away, and they desperately wanted to hire me. 7) Apply to Quality Assurance jobs at software companies as well as programming ones. This is a great way to get your foot in the door.
If you can get an interview, do it. Even if you stink up the joint, you will learn what sort of questions you need to be able to answer. You will likely be asked the same questions again at later interviews! The second time, you should knock it out of the park.
I've done about 10 Java interviews, and each of these questions has come up more than once:
1) Define "polymorphism" 2) Define "loose coupling" 3) What is the difference between an Abstract class and an interface? 4) What is the difference between DOM and SAX parsers? 5) Is the Iterator a design pattern?
If you can do all that, I'd say you have a decent chance of getting an entry level Java job.
Spending all that time is a big risk, for sure, since you may still not get a job. The rewards are phenomenal though. Once you get your foot in the door, your experience counts for FAR more than your degree does.
[ July 12, 2007, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: Xavier ]
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by orlox: Wow. Your form of synesthesia, lexical-gustatory, is very rare. And very interesting. I still have lots of questions but I don't want to be too pushy. Please indicate if you would like to me to drop the whole thing, or, if you are still up for some questions, if you would prefer an e-mail exchange.
I am currently wondering:
Does anyone else in your family have synesthesia and if so what type?
Do all proper names induce a taste/smell?
Have you noticed phonetic similarity in your response? Does 'Barbara' taste like rhubarb?
Do odd-sounding screen names work too? I can't help but wonder what orlox tastes like! Or names like King of Men, do you experience it as something different than if the words were not a proper noun? In other words your normal 'king' response plus your normal 'men' response or something else completely.
I forgot to mention how when I listen to music, high voices are kind of cold, low voices warmer, and tenors tend to make me think of milk chocolate, baritones, dark, basses, really dark chocolate. I think my mother and cousin might have it, not really sure. They might do colours, but not like me. Yes, but they really aren't real smells, I think some names taste better than others. Barbara doesn't taste like rhubarb,. but then i have never had rhubarb before. Do odd-sounding screen names work too? I can't help but wonder what orlox tastes like! Or names like King of Men, do you experience it as something different than if the words were not a proper noun? In other words your normal 'king' response plus your normal 'men' response or something else completely. I reckon it stays the same. It's really od to do this, but it's also cool.
also Pink and orange tend to make me feel weird when they're together. I hate the way pink tastes, but when it's with orange like in those ugly bags, it's so nasty. BLEAH. I hate it. Dark blue feels much better.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
There's a lot of interest in some parts of the JEE (remember, they changed the name ) world in OSGI. I doubt its penetrated most traditional JEE shops yet, but its worth watching. OSGi solves a lot of the problems spring doesn't (so much so that the spring people have created a Spring-OSGi variant).
Btw, if you want, after you've brushed up, I can send you a short (one class) java test I've developed to give to our interviewees. The test is, given this class full of errors (but fully documented to describe what should be going on), fix the errors. I give it to people in Eclipse, and they can use whatever resources they want (including asking me, though I reserve the right to not answer).
It includes variants on several common programming mistakes, and tries to use misdirection to get people to not see the bugs if they look shallowly, but the bugs should be pretty obvious to someone who clearly understands how java evaluates things and/or is willing to put in lots of print statements (or use the debugger to examine values at each step of execution).
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
quote:Ahh the cynicism of the Chicago machine begins to set into Irami's veins...
I'm turning into a misanthrope, and I am not exaggerating when I say that I will put a knife in my throat before I kiss any white ass to get or keep a job.
Xavier,
I went to the website, it sounds like it would take me four months of studying and a 1,000 dollars in various fees. I'm not averse to the work, but I am worried that I'll go through the motions and still not get a job. I know that there isn't any kind of assurance you can give that Java is the way to go, but I'm willing to roll the dice.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I wonder if I could ever learn that stuff. I'm hopeless at math. Hopeless at even simple arithmatic, it's pathetic.
I wonder if I should call this place I called this morning back, I didn't hear from that woman again even though I called yesterday and emailed her about not being able to take the test. Nor did I hear from Broadview, but if I call them, if it's like last year...
I am getting a bit discouraged
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote: Xavier,
I went to the website, it sounds like it would take me four months of studying and a 1,000 dollars in various study aides. I'm not averse to the work, but I am worried that I'll go through the motions and still not get a job. I know that there isn't any kind of assurance you can give that Java is the way to go, but I'm willing to roll the dice.
Yeah, that's why the degree is so key these days. If you got had a CS degree and did those things, a job is virtually guaranteed (in the current market, who knows how long it will stay this good). Without the degree, I still don't know if it is enough.
quote:I wonder if I could ever learn that stuff. I'm hopeless at math. Hopeless at even simple arithmatic, it's pathetic.
Probably not. You have to be able to think in a very logical and formal way (but also abstract!). Most people can do it, but few can do it well.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
quote:Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong:
I'm turning into a misanthrope, and I am not exaggerating when I say that I will put a knife in my throat before I kiss any white ass to get or keep a job. [/QUOTE]
I'm not sure if I have normal logic.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Irami: everything you need to study for it is available online (or in a library, if you like hardcopy, though you might have to go to a university CS department library), and I think the cert test itself would just cost the $200 Xavier mentions.
Something to keep in mind, open source contributions are a huge bonus in a job search. If you've contributed substantial code to an open source java project, employers will sit up and notice (and possibly be much more willing to overlook a lack of degree).
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
Xavier,
What's worse is that the main reason a CS degree is key is because of Human Resource officials. I don't know if I can find the words to express my contempt for Human Resource officials. Here is the plan: it looks like I'll be able to certify as a substitute teacher by the end of the summer, that should carry me through the Fall and Winter. I can earn the J2EE certification in this time.
According to the Teaching certification programs I've spoken with, I have to have the equivalent of a degree in History or in English as well as a few education courses to take the test to become a High School English or History teacher. I'm not happy about this, but we aren't going to talk about how this makes me feel. For the most part, I like taking the extra courses, as long as someone else pays. I'll just take out some more loans, and at the end, either I'll have a job and pay back the loans, or they can try to pry the money from cold, dead hands. I overloaded on History, Political Science, and Rhetoric classes en route to getting a Philosophy degree, who knows if the Powers that Be will be agreeable in substituting Rhetoric for English and Political Science for History. One hopes.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:I'm turning into a misanthrope, and I am not exaggerating when I say that I will put a knife in my throat before I kiss any white ass to get or keep a job.
Move to rural China, problem solved!
Heck simply find a boss who is not a caucasian and you should be good to go.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
There are jobs available for Java programmers without CS degrees.
I don't have a CS degree
I do have the title "Senior Java Developer" on my door.
Of course, part of that's because the professor in charge of our lab is fond of big titles, and they needed something to distinguish that I write a ton of code, help supervise other programmers, help design our architecture, and do a good bit of interviewing and the like. My salary's not great (its a university), but I can pretty much work whenever and whereever I want.
If you want a programming job and you don't have a CS degree, brush up on your java, contribute to an open source project or two, learn good programming practices, read a few good programming blogs (many of the posts at http://oreillynet.com would be good), and work towards getting certified.
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
quote:What I really want to do is write, but it's depressing to talk about that, like discussing a secret embarassing crush on someone you probably can't have.
Is there anything else you enjoy doing? Is there anything else you'd like to accomplish? If so, what?
If not, if the only thing you care about is writing, then what sort of writing to you want to do? Just fiction? Or do you enjoy writing other things? What about writing do you enjoy?
The first step to getting a permanent job is articulating what you want. That's not just what you want in terms of a salary, but rather what you want to actually do. When you can articulate that, then you can tell it to people, who can then point you in the direction you need to go.
quote:But mostly I want my old job back. I loved that job.
What did you love about that job?
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
The fact that they let me listen to music, I didn't have to deal with customers or answer phones, I just did letters and they always had a lot of work. There was never hours of not having any work to do unless something went wrong. Plus people seemed to appreciate my work. I was often thanked for it and praised and if I was doing something wrong, folks would tell me in a polite manner. Mostly what I want is a steady job that pays more more than 13 bucks an hour where I don't have to deal directly with customers and work behind the scenes. I can't think of anything besides correspondence where I can do that. It must also not be tedious or boring. It would seem like doing over one hundred letters a day is tedious, but for some reason it isn't. I think music helps. I also like writing random non fiction essays besides writing fiction. Writing is good because you can take every emotion you have ever had, every experience and turn it into a story for someone to read and relate to.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Synesthesia: Have you considered electronic editing? Its only $10-11 an hour but thats in Utah where wages are markedly lower.
You read/skim through periodicals all day and you do not deal with customers. You can listen to music, and its a pretty peaceful envrionment surrounded by people clicking mouses and reading their monitors. And after doing it awhile you get really proficient at it.
[ July 12, 2007, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: BlackBlade ]
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
That does not sound bad. I think a friend of mine does something simular.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: That does not sound bad. I think a friend of mine does something simular.
If you are interested check your yellow pages or online for "press clipping" services in your area.
Where I work you are even offered financial rewards for working at an above average rate. Often there are several other jobs related to electronic editing that you might consider. Profiling, clipping, scanning, are a few.
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
Oh, those were some very useful posts, Xavier. I can swing $200 for a certification test; I just can't afford to take enough classes to finish my degree (it would take several years, anyway). I do have some database (MySQL) and XML experience. My last job was working with the Arizona Native American Online Dictionary Project to develop an online Tohono O'odham dictionary. I worked on the Java interface, although it seems to have broken since I left, because I know it used to be more functional. I also did a lot of work on the XML scheme listed on that page. It's kind of sad; it looks like they haven't made any progress since I left.
And, holy cow! I just found a bunch of my applets from when I worked for the chemistry department. Why I stored them on the linguistics server is beyond me, though.
Fugu, I'll take you up on the test class offer once I've studied a bit. I'm up to the second chapter in the Thinking in Java book. So far, the concepts all still make sense and the code snippets are understandable. At this point I couldn't actually produce working code, but I can still read it.
Dang, I'm actually getting excited about programming again. I used to be so sick of it. I think that once I'm back up to speed, I'll email the dictionary project and see if they'd like some volunteer work. That should get me some good practice, if they're still working on it.
It still remains to be seen if there are actually any programming jobs in my area, though. The closest town of larger size is Wheeling, WV. The closest cities would be Pittsburgh, PA and Canton, OH, which are both about 1-1/2 hours away. At the very least, there are quite a few small colleges in the area that might need someone.
It has my highlighting in it all over the place, but it could save you a few bucks.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:Oh, those were some very useful posts, Xavier. I can swing $200 for a certification test; I just can't afford to take enough classes to finish my degree (it would take several years, anyway).
The great thing is, almost every software job will reimburse you for your tuition (at least that I've applied to). I am starting towards my Master's degree in Computer Science on the company dime right now. I just started my first class a few weeks ago.
quote:I do have some database (MySQL) and XML experience.
Wonderful! This will certainly help.
quote: And, holy cow! I just found a bunch of my applets from when I worked for the chemistry department.
Those are actually very neat .
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by theCrowsWife: I just found a bunch of my applets from when I worked for the chemistry department. Why I stored them on the linguistics server is beyond me, though.
Hey! I'm pretty sure I used that with chemistry classes a couple times. How many years has that been up?
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Those applets won't be bad resume items by themselves. In particular, they have pretty clear user interfaces, and bad user interfaces is a common sin of java developers .
Programming definitely can be exciting . And I think the small local colleges might well be a good way to find something. They're more likely to be flexible on having a degree, and they'll probably have lots of flexible, part time work if what you're looking for is something to supplement the family income.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Don't ask me what the weird boxes are. It has something to do with my new keyboard.
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
quote:There are jobs available for Java programmers without CS degrees.
Indeed. I was such a slacker in my youth that I didn't even graduate from high school. I also have a "senior developer" title.
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
quote:If you are interested check your yellow pages or online for "press clipping" services in your area.
Where I work you are even offered financial rewards for working at an above average rate.
You don't work for Burrelle's in Provo, do you?
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Where online would you be able to find things like that? My wife could do that from home, speaks 4 other languages, and can type about 60-65 wpm, so it would be ideal. She also reads pretty fast.
I did a quick google search for my area, but didn't find any job oppertunities.
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
It has my highlighting in it all over the place, but it could save you a few bucks.
Thank you, that would be wonderful! I can pay for the shipping cost.
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Hey! I'm pretty sure I used that with chemistry classes a couple times. How many years has that been up?
Seriously? Um, it's been there since 2001 or 2002, I think. You probably used the version on the chemistry server, if this indeed was the one you used. Hey, it looks like all of my applets are still available on the chemistry site. All of the ones I posted above are still available in that menu.
quote:Originally posted by fugu13: Those applets won't be bad resume items by themselves. In particular, they have pretty clear user interfaces, and bad user interfaces is a common sin of java developers :Wink:
I know! That's why I was so excited to find them (and to discover that the chemistry dept is still using them, some six years later).
I would expect the bad UIs are at least partly a result of the programmers being entirely too obsessed with all the neat features they can add. I've always preferred programming the logic of a program, not the GUI, so if I'm forced to do a GUI I tend to make it simple. For my own sanity.
--Mel
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by MattP:
quote:If you are interested check your yellow pages or online for "press clipping" services in your area.
Where I work you are even offered financial rewards for working at an above average rate.
You don't work for Burrelle's in Provo, do you?
I do indeed! How did you know?!
Posted by MattP (Member # 10495) on :
I live about (checking Google maps) 1.4 miles from there, on the far West end of the city. My back yard borders the wetlands about a mile from Utah Lake. 820 North was part of my commute for years and is still the route I usually take to head into town.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by theCrowsWife:
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Hey! I'm pretty sure I used that with chemistry classes a couple times. How many years has that been up?
Seriously? Um, it's been there since 2001 or 2002, I think. You probably used the version on the chemistry server, if this indeed was the one you used. Hey, it looks like all of my applets are still available on the chemistry site. All of the ones I posted above are still available in that menu.
O_O oooooooooohhhhhhhh! I never saw that menu before, but boy would that have been useful. The VSEPR module alone would have been awesome. *plays happily*
But yeah, since that was indeed up in 2003 and 2005, I believe I used the Ideal Gas Simulator with my chem classes. Fairly certain. Cool!
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
Wow, that's so cool. I feel all happy and glowy now.
--Mel
Posted by Xaposert (Member # 1612) on :
quote:Plus people seemed to appreciate my work. I was often thanked for it and praised and if I was doing something wrong, folks would tell me in a polite manner. Mostly what I want is a steady job that pays more more than 13 bucks an hour where I don't have to deal directly with customers and work behind the scenes. I can't think of anything besides correspondence where I can do that. It must also not be tedious or boring. It would seem like doing over one hundred letters a day is tedious, but for some reason it isn't. I think music helps.
A lot of this sounds like what you DON'T want to do. What DO you want to do?
Here's what you've said you do want: You need more than $13 an hour. You do like writing, including both fiction and nonfiction, because it allows you to express emotions and ideas. You also like music. And you want to work somewhere that your work will be appreciated. What else? Is there anything you particularly like doing in your spare time? Do you know anyone with a job that you think you'd like to have?
Also, when you say you don't want to "deal with customers" what exactly do you mean by "customers"? Many jobs require dealing with somebody, whether it is a random person who walks into a store or a business partner or even your boss. Are you okay dealing with somebody you already know well, such as a boss, a coworker, or a customer who you have known for a long time? Are you better dealing with people face-to-face, or over the phone, or through email? Is it just groups that you dislike; do you dislike one-on-one meetings?
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Dealing with people through email or nice co-workers is not so bad. Phones make me feel uneasy. One on one meetings are not too bad, but meetings with a lot of people that take too long suck. I do know a girl with a stay at home correspondence job. I'd ove to do that, and go to the office a few times a week. Mostly I like reading a lot, and listening to music and doing research on things.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by MattP: I live about (checking Google maps) 1.4 miles from there, on the far West end of the city. My back yard borders the wetlands about a mile from Utah Lake. 820 North was part of my commute for years and is still the route I usually take to head into town.
Wow that's really close. My home is less then a 3 minute drive from Burrells. I like being closer to the west side of town, its closer to the freeway.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by theCrowsWife: Wow, that's so cool. I feel all happy and glowy now.
--Mel
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by fugu13: read a few good programming blogs (many of the posts at http://oreillynet.com would be good)
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