In a country rife with class conflict, where the rich are at their richest and the poor are at their poorest, where government is so clogged with bureaucracy that there is little hope of getting something useful done ever again, and the people are waiting for a leader to rise up and deliver them from this nasty situation, we find two potential candidates.
In this corner, wearing the dark robe, rising from humble beginnings to enact a brilliant plan of double crossing and intricate fabrications in order to proclaim himself the supreme overlord, one time Emperor of the Galactic Empire, PALPATINE!!!!
And in this corner, wearing the military uniform, he killed 100 million of his own people and they still named a city after him, the original, still never equaled in this star system, JOSEPH STALIN!!!!
Only one may rise to the top to become the ultimate despot. Who will out dupe the other, convincing the people to enslave themselves and subject their every move to warrantless wiretaps and imprisonment without a trial?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I'ld like to see concrate proof of that 100 million number considering that the population of the Soviet Union was 200 ish million in 1950's.
Posted by GForce (Member # 9584) on :
Yep, you're right. I didn't do my research. I amend that number to 30-50 million.
As a small nitpick, I would note that according to that link most of the deaths happened after the renaming to Stalingrad (if this is the city you're referring to) in 1925.
I'm also not sure that Palpatine rose from particularly humble beginnings, unless you felt he was being especially humble as a senator.
Posted by GForce (Member # 9584) on :
Right, but what was he before he was a senator?
Posted by Strider (Member # 1807) on :
a scared little boy all alone in the universe.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
I have no idea and IIRC I do not think the movies give much detail beyond that presumably he was a Sith Lord.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Stalin's only Force power was the ability to grow a wicked awesome mustache. He has a real edge in personal grooming, but he never mastered the finger-lightening. I think that alone gives Palpy the win.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
"My Marshal's baton is personification of unbending will to victory of multinational Soviet people!"
Posted by GForce (Member # 9584) on :
You misunderstand, MightyCow. Force powers play no role in this conflict, only their inate ability to influence people.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Well, in that case, Stalin, no doubt about it. Palpatine took three movies to make Anakin, never the brightest spark in the Force, come over the the Dark Side. Stalin got the rather purge-weary Russians to rally against the Wehrmacht at the height of its power and throw them out of the Rodina. Advantage: Stalin.
But really, any combat which doesn't give Stalin the opportunity to say "unbending will to victory of the multinational Soviet people" is not living up to its full potential.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Also rememebr Palpatine got betrayed in turn by Anakin, the only stable number of Sith Lords is 2, one to hold the power and the other to hunger for it.
Stalin wouldn't had let Anakin/Vader to get close enough to do what he did.
Posted by dantesparadigm (Member # 8756) on :
I'd have to go with Palpatine, I can't imagine any other population that could potentially exist in the Universe being dumb enough to fall for communism after its spectacular demonstrable failure.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I can't imagine any other population that could potentially exist in the Universe being dumb enough to fall for communism after its spectacular demonstrable failure.
I can imagine populations being dumb enough to do pretty much anything, including that.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
And how well did the Empire work, anyway? It didn't even have good propaganda!
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
You don't need good propaganda when your leaders have telekinetic and mind-warping abilities. However, because the Empire was destroyed by crude (but well-trained) rebels with inferior firepower and muppets, I think the edge goes to Stalin. As evil and awful as he was, and even as the Russians knew this, he still managed to unite them to defeat Germany.
I can't imagine that Palpatine was loved as Stalin was, at least by those loyal to him. Palpatine was merely feared. Communist Party members loved Stalin.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Goku.
Posted by Black Fox (Member # 1986) on :
Stalin for sure.. I mean who has a name like Steel. Not only was his name a metal, but he routinely purged his higher staff, stayed in power, and took a basic peasant agrarian society and built it up enough to stop the Germans in WWII. Don't fool yourself into the common thought that we the Americans saved the day, it was millions of Russians throwing themselves at the Germans and their deaths that ended up defeating the Nazis. They would not have been able to do that if Stalin had not been so brutal.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Someone who picked his own name has a name like Steel .
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
You have to take into account that Palpatine, being a fictional character, also had his name picked to sound cool. And the best he can come up with is 'Palpatine'? "Vast mounds of palpating, quivering..." I don't know, jelly? Breasts? Certainly not any sort of blood-and-iron rhetoric.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
I assume it is intended to be reminiscent of a certain hill.
Posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer (Member # 10416) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Reader: However, because the Empire was destroyed by crude (but well-trained) rebels with inferior firepower and muppets
Inferior firepower? The crudeness was the Death Star, and that was a crack Geonosian plot! A proton torpedo is hardly a bad weapon, especially when aimed down a sixty kilometer exhaust pipe. And they didn't just have muppets, they had teddy bears too! And their snowspeeders were conveniently equipped with ropes just in case they needed to tie up any tanks on legs. (Like those that invade New York.)
Palpatine for the win!
Posted by Phanto (Member # 5897) on :
quote: Stalin for sure.. I mean who has a name like Steel. Not only was his name a metal, but he routinely purged his higher staff, stayed in power, and took a basic peasant agrarian society and built it up enough to stop the Germans in WWII. Don't fool yourself into the common thought that we the Americans saved the day, it was millions of Russians throwing themselves at the Germans and their deaths that ended up defeating the Nazis. They would not have been able to do that if Stalin had not been so brutal.
At a gosh-darn 1 to 8 ratio in some battles. I don't think there is any pride in having millions of your citizens slaughtered to slow the speed of enemy tanks.
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Unless more millions of your people would have been slaughtered had they not slowed the speed of enemy tanks?
Posted by The Reader (Member # 3636) on :
quote:Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer: Inferior firepower? The crudeness was the Death Star, and that was a crack Geonosian plot! A proton torpedo is hardly a bad weapon, especially when aimed down a sixty kilometer exhaust pipe. And they didn't just have muppets, they had teddy bears too! And their snowspeeders were conveniently equipped with ropes just in case they needed to tie up any tanks on legs. (Like those that invade New York.)
Palpatine for the win! [/QB]
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
For me it comes down to Stalin pulling out a gun and firing. Could Palpatine possibly stop a bullet in time, as it flies towards him and would he even know how a gun works were one pointed at him?
His Palpatine dumb enough to expect a blaster and let Stalin fire in order to demonstrate how futile it should be.
Posted by anti_maven (Member # 9789) on :
quote:Originally posted by King of Men: That just shows what you know!
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
.
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)