I swear, if this turns into another "spoiled April isn't as good as her siblings" sub-plot...
[ November 03, 2007, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: Puffy Treat ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Perhaps it's a larger plot to transform April into the only likeable member of the cast, and then give her cancer.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
The thing that really gets me is, Liz didn't -give- Jesse the harmonica. He stole it, and after finally admitting it to her, she let him keep it on a whim. Instead of, oh, teaching him that stealing things is wrong, and leads to bad consequences.
Great work, Liz!
If this were real life, that incident would paint her not only as thoughtless, but as a very poor teacher.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Or a character in a Victor Hugo novel.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
From what I recall, the bishop pretended to the authorities that Jean Valjean had been given the things as a gift, but then made him promise to become an honest man, and do good instead of evil.
No passive "basking in the beloved teacher glow" like sweet, saintly Liz. Posted by The Pixiest (Member # 1863) on :
It must be tough writing a comic a day for 30 years. Make a mistake and you can't go back and correct it, when your fans get upset. You just have to deal with it and move on.
As Piro said, Everyone sees your rough draft and you have no chance to edit.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
I don't think Lynn considers Liz giving the treasured keepsake away to a boy with an unhealthy fixation on her to be a mistake. At least, judging by past stories. In recent years, whenever April calls her family on the dubious and wrong things they've done, it's only to turn things around the next strip and hammer down the point that April is an ungrateful brat.
Seriously. I'm certain in the next strip she'll get a lecture on how she's being selfish and evil for thinking about THINGS at a time like this. Meanwhile, Liz can go back to passively waiting for the big marrying-Anthony-story guilt-free.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Do you remember when the harmonica stealing story took place? I remember it, butnot all that well, and I'd like to go back and have a look at it in the archives for context.
Posted by Mike (Member # 55) on :
Am I the only one freaked out about April's eyes blinking in the last frame?
Posted by Sm34rZ (Member # 8609) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mike: Am I the only one freaked out about April's eyes blinking in the last frame?
Nope!
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Oh, no. It's even worse. Grandpa Jim's second stroke and April getting mad at Liz were both just an excuse to do an "Isn't Anthony WONDERFUL and PERFECT for FLAWLESSLY INNOCENT Liz?" sequence!
Noemon: I don't recall exactly when, but I do remember that it was really weird. Jesse (for one thing) went in two years from being a 7 year old to a 15 year old. And there was all that nonsense about how Northern Canadians and Southern Canadians should never intermingle for long...it was just an icky story all around.
[ October 06, 2007, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: Puffy Treat ]
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
Boy that's what everyone wanted to hear today was a "IT FREAKING BLINKED AT ME"
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
I'm really looking forward to the snark today.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
So he's the world's newshound for comics like Gil Thorp and Archie?
That's .. got to be punishment for something. Past life murder or sommat.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Yeah, the blinking is way freaky. Now I keep expecting their heads to spin all the way around too.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
I guess showing grief and mourning over Jim's condition just isn't as important as a cheap punchline.
Heck, Farley's passing got more emotion than this from Elly. Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
I think she's just been grieving over her dad for so long that she's accepted that he's going to die. She probably also feels that heaven will be a vast improvement at this point. I don't think it was intended as callous, but I use humor to get through uncomfortable situations so that could be my biased perception at work.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Would have been nice if Lynn had shown us some of this grief. The passing of her mother Marian (after a long series of health problems) worked Elly up into a real state.
With Jim, she's occasionally brought over a casserole and listened to Iris discuss how hard it is. Period.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Lynn, you not only did a "false alarm death of Grandpa Jim" story twice now in the past couple of years...you're interrupting it for an odd, completely random tangent about young Elly and Connie?
Meanwhile, poor Iris is trapped with these two self-involved, self-centered gossips. Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Puffy, you really ought to just quit reading it, if it upsets you...
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I figured you'd be posting about Elly's apparent belief that being a single mother = having it easy.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I figure Puffy reads the strip for the same reason some people ride rollercoasters.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Ever since Tom introduced me to that Comics Curmudgeon site, I've been deriving ironic enjoyment from it.
Plus, there's always the hope that Lynn's old spark will return. Dim as that may be.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: I figured you'd be posting about Elly's apparent belief that being a single mother = having it easy.
Well, Connie did have a (*gasp*) career before she had children. And as we saw with Therese, only evil, unnatural women would even consider such a thing! Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
*snort* Wow, really? What was the context of THAT belief, that single moms have it easy?
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Especially since according to Connie's official bio, Elly -knew- that Connie had her son Lawrence under very difficult, saddening circumstances from the moment the friends were first reunited in their post-University years.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: *snort* Wow, really? What was the context of THAT belief, that single moms have it easy?
Hrmm. I don't know that I think 'single moms have it easy' is a hidden subtle messege of her, but it does seem to be a rather stupid thing for her to have thought. It's not as though her single friend didn't have kids at all (thus the freedom remark would be more understandable), she lacked a partner.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Elly seems to have forgotten that the first decade of the strip's existence portrayed Connie using her "freedom" to marry, divorce, and date a string of sexist, emotionally abusive jerks. It was only after she stopped dating that she found her current, nice husband.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Yeah, I don't think that Lynn Johnson actually thinks that "single moms have it easy", and I don't think that there's any subtext to that effect in the strip while taken as a whole. I was just poking fun at today's strip, which if taken out of the context of the strips history would lead a person to believe that she thought that.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Taken as a whole, the strip used to be remarkably compassionate and fair about all kinds of family situations. It's mainly in recent years that there's been some rather ugly bashing and bizarre messages.
Posted by sarahdipity (Member # 3254) on :
Puffy, I don't think you need to stop talking about the strip. But perhaps just create one thread and whenever you want to restart the conversation just add to that. I think plenty of people have shown some interest in this discussion. And those that don't care will just learn to avoid that thread.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
isn't that what he's done here? updated it daily with comments about successive strips?
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
Oh, is it Hatrack that I found The Comics Curmudgeon from, them? I've been trying to remember who linked me.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Mike's novel is "so late"? It got published in less than nine months, with a 25 thousand dollar advance!
Seriously though, for ironic entertainment, few things can beat the excerpts from Mike's "Great Canadian Novel"...they used to be included in the monthly letters. Hee-hee-hee.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Mike is a largely unknown author who's published a few articles for infotainment magazines. He's a complete newbie to the world of published novels. His book's come out in an extremely short time after an insane cash advance...and now with an equally insane burst of publicity. J.K. Rowling and Stephen King get asked to appear on TV. Why would an unknown first time novelist get asked to appear on the CBC?
Plus, Mike is still either ignorant or unconcerned about Jim's second stroke...timing, Lynn? Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
Mike is a largely unknown author who's published a few articles for infotainment magazines. He's a complete newbie to the world of published novels. His book's come out in an extremely short time after an insane cash advance...and now with an equally insane burst of publicity. J.K. Rowling and Stephen King get asked to appear on TV. Why would an unknown first time novelist get asked to appear on the CBC?
Plus, Mike is still either ignorant or unconcerned about Jim's second stroke...timing, Lynn?
Sadly, that's not at all uncharacteristic of the CBC. CHCH is a local station, the Hamilton Spec is a local paper, and really only the Toronto Star being in the list fazed me at all.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:Why would an unknown first time novelist get asked to appear on the CBC?
That's actually pretty consistent for the CBC. Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
My experience with the CBC is nine years out of date.
Still, I half expect to read that Mike's book "breaks records previously held by Harry Potter and The Holy Bible" in a week or so. Posted by Dobbie (Member # 3881) on :
Harry Potter and the Holy Bible? That was my favorite book in the series, even if it was a little controversial.
Spoiler alert:
Based on clues from the painting of the Fat Lady, along with Hermione's encyclopedic knowledge of the history of Hogwart's, Harry figures out that Hagrid is the great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great- great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great- great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great- great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great- great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great- great-great-grandson of Mary Magdalene and the big guy. Ron tags along.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Posted by porcelain girl (Member # 1080) on :
I love seeing that emoticon, because I know exactly what your ROTL laughter sounds like.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:
quote:So he's the world's newshound for comics like Gil Thorp and Archie?
That's .. got to be punishment for something. Past life murder or sommat. [/qb]
No, he's the guy who gets to make a living by making fun of them. I can honestly think of worse jobs.
I'm trying, and all I can think of is "STD research vector" and "Live! Elks Club bingo commentator"
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Okay, Lynn. It is sad that your husband of thirty years left you for another woman.
But your characters haven't gone through this. Heck, you've currently given the Pattersons a bizarre fairy tale life where everything comes up roses as they passively smash through all who get in their path.
You've already shared your real-life troubles in the news now. Several times. And it is sad, don't get me wrong.
But this seems like you're exploiting your strip for extra-sympathy from the ol' faithful readership. That's a bit dubious, Lynn. Do you -really- want to go that route?
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
But wait a minute...she's only 16. Teenagers break up all the time, and since these two have been going steady since age 12, I'd say they were overdue.
Also, If I'm remembering right, April first met Gerald all the way back in Day Care...where she also met Becky and the rest of her circle of friends.
Does Lynn Johnston have issues about making friends and finding spouses with people one -didn't- know as a kid?
And why oh WHY is she repeating this same tired plot line again?
My younger brother married the woman who was his teen sweetie. It does happen. But not EVERY TIME.
By the way, Lynn...love this week's message that it's not possible to be a success in something creative AND do well in school.
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
I really don't get it. Is this some kind of sado masochistic exercise for you? I've never come across someone that complained so bitterly about a particular story and yet continued to read it.
Or are you getting ironic pleasure out of it? If so, that doesn't really come through in your posts.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
I'm just not getting the angry-masochistic vibe off Puffy Treat that y'all are reading. Would you accept this from him if he had a Curmudgeon Blog, and ranted about these comics there, instead of in this thread?
I have plenty of things I continued to watch/read long after they stopped being good. It's fun to complain about bad things. It's even more fun to complain when you know you have a point. I enjoy reading Puffy's rants, and I've never followed For Better or For Worse in my life Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
I think it's fun to read, and he's keeping it to one thread. I'm enjoying this thread.
*goes off to read The Comics Curmudgeon*
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
I'm not angry so much as I'm sardonically amused. This thread does contain one of the few recent strips that provoked genuine anger in me.
Posted by Foust (Member # 3043) on :
It's fun to complain about bad things.
Yes it is. I do it all the time. It just doesn't look like Puffy is having fun with this.
Sardonically amused? I guess.
Posted by kmbboots (Member # 8576) on :
I think Puffy is having fun. It doesn't seem like you're having fun, though. Why do you keep reading it?
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by Foust: Sardonically amused? I guess.
I would know. Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Best line of snark about today's strip:
"How long will you need to be in a cow pasture with your arm stuck halfway up a cow's hoo-hoo before you realize you are tired of your little adventure and your destiny lies in Milborough doing work with cute kitties and bunnies and Gerald Delaney-Forsythe?" Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
I can only speak from my own memories of being 16, but back then two years seemed like an eternity.
Also: Either Lynn or her assistants are trying to make Eva and April look as bizarre as possible.
Either that, or this was a surprise tribute to the look of A Clockwork Orange's main character.
Posted by Eaquae Legit (Member # 3063) on :
I think it's supposed to be mascara, running because a) they're cheap teenagers and the waterproof stuff is too expensive, and b) they're crying, it's just so emotional. *sob*
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
The Silhouette strikes again! Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
And occasionally LynnJohnston still gets it right: sometimes you can have it all.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
April has now realized that music and creativity are silly and lame compared to doing homework in preparation for her future career as Mrs. Gerald Delany-Forsythe, Veterinarian. Thus, she's forgiven Liz for letting Jesse the boy with SOARAS steal Grandpa Jim's harmonica.
If I removed these characters from their current context, the strip would be kind of cute...even if it does revisit a punchline Lynn's used fairly often.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Except, these are obviously false memories. Mike was a rowdy, playful, average kid. Not a sensitive, fragile, poetic flower of a lad.
It's really strange...now that Mike's Great Canadian Novel has become the best-selling book of all time, we have to change the past in order to pretend he was -always- portrayed as an artistic sort? Posted by Javert Hugo (Member # 3980) on :
What, exactly, is she doing to him in the last panel?!?
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by Javert Hugo: What, exactly, is she doing to him in the last panel?!?
She's preemptively giving Mike's novel a Razzie.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
My local library has a bunch of the older For Better or For Worse collections. Scanning them, not only is there no sign of Mike's "sensitive" side, but he was the primary teaser and instigator of strife. Not Liz.
It's easy to guess who Lynn's favorite FBorFW character is, isn't it? Not even Elly gets the luck Mike has, lately.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Hey Puffy, How 'bout changing your title to "Permit me one last anti-Liz Patterson thread" Every time I see it bumped I can't help but wonder... wasn't it the last post last time?
Yesterday's framing device for this flashback is just silly. Babies don't tease the way Lynn's saying they do.
And how could Liz remember a conversation she wasn't even present for?
Lynn seems to think the period when Mike and Liz did little more than scream and spit were the 'Golden Age' of the strip. I dunno. I think it improved greatly once they were both old enough to be in school.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by BannaOj: Hey Puffy, How 'bout changing your title to "Permit me one last anti-Liz Patterson thread" Every time I see it bumped I can't help but wonder... wasn't it the last post last time?
AJ
I always saw it in a "well, maybe I'll have one last potato chip" sort of way, and thought it was fairly funny. I don't mind that it's changed, but it was a good title, I think.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I don't think that Lynn necessarily feels that way about the earlier strips, Puffy. She's intending to run these strips that are 90% recycled material for the forseeable future, right? Is there a reason why you don't think that she's just intending to start with the earlier strips and work her way forward?
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: She's intending to run these strips that are 90% recycled material for the forseeable future, right?
That was her original plan, before Rod Johnston divorced her. Since then she's made some very conflicting claims about just where the strip is headed. For instance, she's claimed recently that she's wanted all the dangling plot threads (Jim's health, Liz & Anthony, etc) resolved before spring of 2008. But, she's also made claims that the earliest strips are being used to "prep" the readership for an all Mike & Ageless Offspring strip. And the occasional reference to the Hybrid Experiment.
Personally, I think she hasn't made up her mind just what she's going to do...hence the very odd timing of certain recent stories: Jim is gonna d-...whoops, silly spitting kiddies flashback!
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
Except, these are obviously false memories. Mike was a rowdy, playful, average kid. Not a sensitive, fragile, poetic flower of a lad.
It's really strange...now that Mike's Great Canadian Novel has become the best-selling book of all time, we have to change the past in order to pretend he was -always- portrayed as an artistic sort?
Specifically, the sensitive and fragile artist who spent most of their childhoods referring to her as "Lizard Breath". Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
I get what the joke is supposed to be, but Robin only -just- celebrated his third birthday a couple of days ago. I think this sort of misunderstanding is more likely to occur a wee bit later in life. Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Not only can Liz remember things that happened to five year old Mike that she wasn't present for and couldn't understand, but she's rattling it off like a pro-Mike fan-fic.
Anyone else notice that the rare appearances by John these days are the strips where he's being derided or physically hurt? Hmmmmm.
[ November 05, 2007, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: Puffy Treat ]
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
That has absolutely NOTHING to do with her divorce. Don't be silly.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
I don't know what happened to the strip, but I am in no way emotionally connected to it anymore. I was very sad when Farley died, nearly crying, but if Grandpa Jim died this week I probably wouldn't even blink.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Out of nostalgia, today I checked out a collection of FBorFW strips from 1989-1990.
It was like a completely different world. Punchlines not based on tortured pun set-ups. Pattersons who are flawed yet still endearing and likable. Story progression that isn't all over the place.
Flashbacks that actually -do- have something to do with the then-current story, told by characters who logically would remember them. Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Liz: "And that was the time that Mike made Dad feel really uncomfortable about explaining sex to his children. See? He was MEANT to be a writer from the start!" *beams*
April: "...I didn't get that out of your memory at all. And...uh...Liz?"
Liz: "Yes?"
April: "How the heck are you able to remember this?!?"
Liz: "Magic, April. Magic."
Upon consideration, it looks like Mike's smirk was the only thing 'touched up' in order to justify the syndicate paying Lynn twice for the same strip.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
Dood, that just reminds me of Family Circus twisted with 4 panels. I hate Family Circus. >.<
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
JonHecht, could you read when Farley died? I remember being in second grade, and I think you're three years younger than me.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
I could read back then, but I didn't read it at the time. When I discovered FBOFW my mom had some collections, and I read those. That is how I grew an emotional attachment and saw when Farley died.
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
Oh it was a year later than I thought anyway. I knew it was close in time to something big in my life happening but I thought it was something else. The end of second grade my first grade teacher died of Aids. April of 3rd grade my mom's friend was diagnosed with bone cancer and we pretty much moved into her house to take care of her.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: Dood, that just reminds me of Family Circus twisted with 4 panels. I hate Family Circus. >.<
Anyone remember The Nietzsche Family Circus? I've been thinking that there should be "For Better or For Nietzsche." 3 panels of the normal dialogue, then the 4th panel delivering us some heavy Nitzschean truth. It'd be awesome.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Finally, Liz is in one of these things. And yet...how old is she? Three months?
Lynn, out of all the decades of Mike strips, why are you choosing these? They don't support your new "sensitive genius Mike" paradigm. Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Leaving aside that there's no way infant Liz could remember any of this, or why she hasn't let poor April free from the laundromat conversation for more than a month-
In the old days, it was probably Lynn's attempt to generate humor along the lines of "Did you ever have a kid who tried to barge in everywhere? HAH! I do too!"
These days, though, it seems like yet another one of her recent swipes at Rod Johnston.
"John, I had a dream where you left me for another woman!"
"MOM, DADDY -CHEATS-!"
And now, the husband and father character as silent, unresponsive, absent, neglectful.
It's impossible for me to read a John strip now without looking for coded messages. Lynn's shown that she's more than willing to use the strip in this manner.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
And so, after a month or so of bizarre reruns that saw Liz age and regress from toddler to infant several times, we return to the present.
The blog was cute, but I've seen it done with Marmaduke at McSweeney's. The randomizer was conceptually cute, but not reall funny.
Garfield without the thought bubbles, though . . . Holy cow! I laughed more at the first page of that thread than I have at all the Gafield strips I have ever read, cumulatively!
(Oh, and the Video-Watching Dog strip at the blog site was just stupid. But we knew that.)
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:Can't . . . breathe . . . laughing too hard . . . falling off sofa!
Is that an original or an editted? Did someone edit that text in or just remove Garfield's text or what?
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
It's actually not edited at all, but after spending an hour and a half or so reading edited Garfield strips, that one just killed me!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Today's FBoW is actually pretty funny.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
I showed my friend the randomizer, and he got this magnificent one:
Today's strip was amusing, though this is the fifth (or sixth) time Lynn's done an arc about Mike's brilliant, first-draft-bestseller book in the past two years. It's hardly an urgent plot thread in need of closure before "the freeze"...when and if that ever happens. Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
The Grandpa either needs to die and everyone is sad, or he needs to be able to speak and everyone is happy. He has had brain damage long enough.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Wow. That's cold.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
What can I say, she is making me hate the characters now. I am sure you think that The Twins in Heroes should die.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
If someone actually reading your book first instead of just assuming it will be good sight unseen is all it takes for you to lose your composure...
...of course, now someone who -has- read the book and had it completely change their life is dead-set certain to turn up and lift Mike's spirits by tomorrow or Saturday. He's too much Lynn's pampered favorite to endure more than a brief period of reality.
[ November 29, 2007, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Puffy Treat ]
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
*Grin* I too enjoy Puffy's commentary more than the actual strip.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Mike, Robin and Merrie won't care whether Stone Season sold a lot of copies. They won't care about whether it got good reviews.
They certainly won't need you to prove your "literary genius" to them.
What will they care about?
"Why is Daddy always so mean to Grandma Mira? He hates it when she gives us presents. Do we just not deserve presents?"
"Why did Daddy make us share the same bedroom even after we moved into Grandma Elly's house? Did Daddy really need another bedroom just to 'refresh his muse'?"
"Why does Daddy never play with us? Well, unless he wants to show us photo albums of himself?"
Mike, the writer who makes being a neglectful father fun! Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Panel 1: Deanna reaches out to her husband, who's gone all emo and brooding because some people dare to not automatically assume his book is brilliant.
Pane 2: Mike lifts his eyebrow and sneers at the wall as Deanna tries to give him advice and comfort. The nerve. Who does she think she is, his wife?!? ...*...oh. Right.
Panel 3: Mike feigns sleep. Deanna smirks slightly. I get the feeling she knows he's faking.
Panel 4: Either we've had a time warp, or Mike grows stubble in a heartbeat.
Panel 5: The poor, sensitive, intelligent and theatrical genius. Nobody truly understands the depth of pain in his soul except for his beloved laptop. Suffering, sleepy, google-eyed and barely conscious as he pounds out the first-draft of Stone Season II: Stone Cold!. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
You know, Puffy, I think you might be stretching a bit for some Mike-hate. Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
I am. Though it's far easier when Lynn's assistants are giving the lead characters some highly dubious facial expressions, time transitions and reaction shots...as they've done in this strip.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
Is anyone else reading Mike's letters on the site and really doubting his ability to write a worthwhile novel AT ALL?
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
And is anyone else as yerked out as I am that Liz's intro on the FOOB site says she's looking to marry a guy like her dad?
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by yerked out. If you mean you think it's gross, no not at all. If you just mean that Anthony isn't like her dad, ok.
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
I don't mean grossed out on a physical level. I mean on a moral/aesthetic level: Lynn is pushing Liz into that mold that will let her give Liz a quiet suburban life. Just like her parents'.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
What's wrong with a quiet suburban life?
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
Nothing inherently. It's just dishonest to the character to say that's what Liz wants.
What Johnston seems to imply is that NOT wanting that life is a sign of youth and immaturity. Once we grow up, of course, we automatically will. For instance, Liz says she feels Anthony has matured far more than her because he has a child and owns property. Liz has done her share of things towards maturity, and has garnered a lot of experience. But it is the markers of suburban life that Johnston implies are signs of maturity and indeed validation: without a child and a house in the suburbs, you're just a kid playing around.
As someone incapable of gaining the first and preferring not to have the second, I think it's kinda gross. This next generation is being made to fit the mold of the previous. Mike and Liz are shown to be grown up by the fact that they accept their parents' values and want to live just like them, rather than showing maturity by choosing their own course in life.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I think you are reading an awful lot into "I want to marry someone like my dad" -- a sentiment that I have heard a lot of RL women express. (I don't, as it happens. I want to marry someone like my mom. )
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: I think you are reading an awful lot into "I want to marry someone like my dad" -- a sentiment that I have heard a lot of RL women express. (I don't, as it happens. I want to marry someone like my mom. )
Aye, but it's the larger scheme of what's she's started molding Liz into.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: What's wrong with a quiet suburban life?
Nothing's wrong with it, it's just that until a few years ago Liz did not want it. She showed no sign of wanting it.
Then she bizarrely gave up her rewarding, interesting work helping to educate First Nations children because "I was homesick".
Then her boyfriend Paul was forced into acting -way- out of character in order to prove that "Northern Canadians and Southern Canadians can never truly mingle" (I still can't believe I read that...but that's Lynn had her characters say)...and it was all to shoehorn her into romancing Anthony again. Her First Love. Who made a pass at her after she was almost raped and he was still married. What a prize! Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Man...while the plan is for Mike's kidlets to be "frozen" by spring of next year, Lynn seems to be aging everyone else as quickly as she can. I half expect Elly to be in her 80s by 2008.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
So, li'l two-year-old Francie has forced herself to grow (and in the beginning of this strip, shrink) at an accelerated rate in order to protect her dad from Liz.
It's futile, of course. Lynn decided way back in the 90s that Liz's first childhood love would be her One True Husband, and -any- bumps along the way will be dispensed in some truly convoluted, unlikely fashion.
Watch Therese spontaneously decided to visit, act mean, and send Francie off crying. Running to Liz's arms for comfort, of course. Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
"Go and wait on your daughter." Wow. I know Lynn phrased Liz's remark like that just to set up the dreadful last pun...but it makes Liz seem REALLY "not ready for Francie." Francie's not even three yet. She really does -need- extra attention from her pop.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
You're just grasping at straws now. Some kids prefer the top bunk, and while I'd be happier if the bar were wider or reinforced, it's not terrible.
And LIZ is making a pun. And being perfectly reasonable.
Yesterday's was quite sweet. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I think the broader point is valid: why did Anthony buy a bunk bed for a single child? We've seen her bed before, back before the divorce, and it wasn't a bunk bed -- so he bought it fairly recently. Does she have sleepovers often? Does he sleep in the bottom bunk? Is he expecting a second child by someone else very soon?
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
You're just grasping at straws now.
I prefer the word "clutching".
Some kids prefer the top bunk,
I didn't have an issue with that. If Francie actually were the 5-7 year old she's currently being drawn and written as...and she had someone to bunk with, I could see it easily.
and while I'd be happier if the bar were wider or reinforced, it's not terrible.
I didn't say it was terrible, I'm questioning the reasoning behind it.
And LIZ is making a pun.
I point to my remark: "Wow. I know Lynn phrased Liz's remark like that just to set up the dreadful last pun"
I'm not a fan of Lynn relying almost exclusively on puns these days.
And being perfectly reasonable.
Still think she could have phrased differently, YMMV. (And Lynn would've had to write a non-pun punchline. Unthinkable)
Yesterday's was quite sweet.
Full of retconning as it was. Therese has "been gone a long time"? Well, I suppose a year and change might be long enough for -some- kids to forget their mother... Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I think the broader point is valid: why did Anthony buy a bunk bed for a single child?
Because he can stand up straight while tucking her in?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
If a Funky Winkerbean crossover were planned, and we were about to learn that Anthony is slowly dying from a degenerative muscle disease, I'd buy that. Posted by Shanna (Member # 7900) on :
Actually, a loft bed would be a better purchase. It saves space and kids love having a hide-out under their bed. That's what my brothers had and still not until they were older and my parents were sure they could get out safely if they needed to use the bathroom in the middle of the night.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I actually know at least one parent that bought a bunk bed for pretty much that reason. *shrug*
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Liz gets this worked up about a minor "Hi, I thought you'd like a signed copy of Mike's book!" visit?
Oh, wait. Anthony was her First Childhood Love (tm) so it's all just too romantic and intense for a mere mortal like me to comprehend.
Marry 'em off already, Lynn.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Wow...the first three panels of that were painfully bad. No matter what else that kid does from now on, I like her.
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
Puffy
My youngest son has a bunk bed and he sleeps on the bottom bunk.
He occasionally has friends for overnights and they sleep in the top bunk. Personally, if I could, I would make him sleep in the top bunk because it is easier to change the sheets on the top bunk.
msquared
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Is your youngest son 2 and a half years old, but looks and talks like a 5-7 year old? Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I thought Anthony and Francie's premature aging was going to be the elephant in the room forever.
But seriously, while I do know some people go gray before they hit 30, isn't Anthony a very pale blond? That normally makes it harder to spot.
Then again, Anthony is merely following the pattern set by Mike's friend Gordo, who despite being a mere year older than Mike now looks 68.
Hmmm. This may explain why Elly and John both retired when they're still in their mid-50s, with a 16 year old daughter still living at home.
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
Francie's verbal ability is probably unusual, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. My daughter just turned three, and she talks and reasons just about that well. I only read the strips that Puffy links to, so maybe I missed something really egregious.
--Mel
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I don't see her as behaving as any more than a three year old either Mel. Or really looking bigger than one.
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
How do you interpret Therese's 'No!' thought balloon?
"No! I, was enjoying my EVIL life of being EVIL! How dare the saintly Liz Patterson be here with my spawn!"
"No! Francie will see the Christmas gift I was buying her! There goes my Christmas surprise."
"No! Hasn't the author of the strip already devoted several arcs this year alone to blaming me for every problem in Anthony's life? Write me out of this miserable strip!"
I'm hoping no more forced, convoluted retcons to make Anthony look good (and Therese look bad) are crammed down our throats.
I don't know what's worse...the thought of another "Therese is PURE EVIL!" arc, or the possible "Francie realizes Liz is her ONE TRUE MOM!" conclusion Lynn is no doubt aiming for.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
I am waiting for a retcon to say that Liz and Anthony secretly eloped at one point (can't have sex without being married, or she wouldn't be a saint), it's actually Liz's baby, but aliens brainwashed them to think it was Therese's, and then all of the sudden everyone will know that Francie is Liz's daughter.... too extreme?
Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Really, if Francie -was- her actual two and a half years old, she'd probably have problems recognizing Therese at all. According to Anthony (who admittedly is a biased source) she took no interest at all in her upbringing, was never around, and moved out when Francie was only just becoming a toddler.
If we go by the current Francie is 5-7...somehow!" paradigm, then my head begins to hurt. Mike and Deanna's kids are older than Francie but haven't aged so fast. Plus, the monthly letters from the characters that Lynn used to write made the claim that Francie visited Therese once a month. But those letters frequently contradicted the comic.
Oh, yeah. We're definitely headed for "Christmas special" ending.
"Liz, I ruined my chance with this beautiful child and that darling man. Take care of them for me, will you?"
Liz: "Of course I will! Merry Christmas!" Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:Really, if Francie -was- her actual two and a half years old, she'd probably have problems recognizing Therese at all.
This firmly establishes you as a man who has never had children, you realize. That said, yeah, Francie's speaking like the most advanced two-year-old alive.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
If I can just borrow your soapbox for a second, Puffy, has Lynn Johnson never actually made a pie before? One of the main reasons not to cut a pie when its piping hot from the oven isn't that you'll burn yourself (although the filling would certainly be hot enough for that to be an issue too). It's that the pie will pretty much fall apart. The filling has to cool a bit before it gels, and the crust will fall into the liquid of the filling and be ruined. If you didn't mind the risk of burning and the soupy quality of the filling, you could certainly eat a piece, but anything that didn't get eaten then and there would end up soggy and gross.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
In my experience, that really depends on what kind of pie. Apple or cherry, sure. Pumpkin, mince, pecan -- not so much. It's hard to tell from the comic, but it looks like it could be mince.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
The dad (Jon or John? I can't remember) says in panel three that he can smell apple and pumpkin, so it almost has to be one of those two. The pie being cut in the fourth panel is mounded, which makes it unlikely to be pumpkin, and the slice that Ellie is peering at bemusedly in the fifth panel has an interior texture that would be more consistent with apple than pumpkin (and also consistent with a slice of cooled pie, I might add).
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
All excellent points. (Clearly, you have way less to do at work today than I do. )
However, time has clearly passed from panel 3 to panel 4 (no hat, and it looks like the overall might be gone too). So while they are still clearly quite hot (as per the steam plumes -- funny, my pies never do that), perhaps they have cooled enough to cut?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote: All excellent points. (Clearly, you have way less to do at work today than I do. )
Actually, I was ridiculously busy finishing a project, but turned to comics for a much needed break (and was still in "looking at everything really carefully" mode, apparently).
quote:However, time has clearly passed from panel 3 to panel 4 (no hat, and it looks like the overall might be gone too). So while they are still clearly quite hot (as per the steam plumes -- funny, my pies never do that), perhaps they have cooled enough to cut?
Could be (though one might expect Ellie to have removed her apron as well, were that the case), but if much time had passed wouldn't the punchline be rendered completely nonsensical?
Posted by ElJay (Member # 6358) on :
Man, Elly sure has aged in the past few strips. Before she looked middle aged, a little tired around the eyes, the appropriate age to have two young grandkids and a teenager of her own. Now she looks like a grandma, period.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon: but if much time had passed wouldn't the punchline be rendered completely nonsensical?
First of all, ice cream always makes pie better. Second of all, it's hot -- see the steam?
In the comics, cats and children rarely age. And pies are magical!
Elly has been alternating looking very young and very grandma-y for several years. I'm sure a shrink would have a field day with that one. Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
Of course, Lynn has to show Deanna (normally a kind, polite character) being thoughtless and April (despite everything, the unexpected moral center of the Patterson family) being an eavesdropper so that she can justify today's particularly lame last panel.
Lynn, we all know this is just window dressing for Anthony's inevitable proposal to Liz. Please get a move-on. Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
How dare she ask God to bless the Pattersons and their food.
The saddest thing is that Jim, the one character showing gratitude, is the one character Lynn keeps using as a glutton for punishment.
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
"This firmly establishes you as a man who has never had children, you realize."
Puffy is a girl, she's porce's sister, last I heard.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:Really, if Francie -was- her actual two and a half years old, she'd probably have problems recognizing Therese at all.
This firmly establishes you as a man who has never had children, you realize. That said, yeah, Francie's speaking like the most advanced two-year-old alive.
I hate to disagree with you, Tom, but I brought my girls home at the age of twenty-months. Two months later, we had their foster parents over for their second birthday party. The girls did not recognize them and most assuredly did not run to them. They hid behind us and stared uncertainly. Now, this kid is older, and apparently expremely precocious, but I just wanted to jump in and point out that there is some room for variation in kids' memories. Puffy's not all that far off base.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by steven: "This firmly establishes you as a man who has never had children, you realize."
Puffy is a girl, she's porce's sister, last I heard.
Nope. Brother.
Posted by steven (Member # 8099) on :
I suppose it's a good thing I didn't email him and ask him if he's single, then. Posted by Puffy Treat (Member # 7210) on :
On Francie's memories of Therese, I just want to point out: She'll be three in March next year.
Anthony's told us Therese was never around during the brief period their marriage lasted past Francie's birth.
The letters and strip have given contradictory information since then on whether or not Francie's visited her mother since then.
Obviously it was a lot more than Anthony said, otherwise how could Francie recognize and miss what she never had?
On the other hand, this violates the "Therese was never interested in Francie/abandoned her" paradigm Lynn wants us to accept.
I still think she's acting like a girl a bit older than her in-strip age, with a history somewhat different from what we've been told.
But who can keep up with all the retcons?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:I brought my girls home at the age of twenty-months. Two months later, we had their foster parents over for their second birthday party.
Do kids get a chance to "imprint" on foster parents?
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
They were with them from the day they left ICU until the day we adopted them. They never spent an hour in either birth parent's custody.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
You've got to wonder if this strip was aimed at Johnson's ex-husband. If not, it must have been painful to write.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Very true.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
Yeah, that felt like a shot at a philanderer to me as well.
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Huh. I thought it was sweet, classy, and professional she rose above her personal problems to talk about how marriage should be and stay true to her happily married characters. All in the eye of the beholder, I suppose.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Staying true to her characters is not really a priority for the artist. Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
Was anyone else a bit disappointed to open the paper today and not see any foobish idiocy to rant about?
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
quote:Originally posted by Joldo: Was anyone else a bit disappointed to open the paper today and not see any foobish idiocy to rant about?
Oh, there's plenty of foolish idiocy in the newspaper to rant about, even without a certain comic strip...
Posted by breyerchic04 (Member # 6423) on :
I usually like books that end telling you what happened for the rest of everyone's life. I didn't like Sunday's strip.
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What's wrong with a quiet suburban life?