So my wife and I have been trying to cook healthier food lately and I have ralized our knived are lacking. A couple of years ago, we purchased the Miracle Blade set, and while they are ok, they are not great.
Who out there has a set they are proud of? Please let me know.
Thanks,
Jack
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
I like Henkel's. Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I can second the Henkel's. Hone before ever use with the steel and they'll stay sharp a good long time. Excellent quality at a reasonable price.
Posted by Artemisia Tridentata (Member # 8746) on :
The Henkel knife that I use for Bassoon reeds stays sharp for years, even when scraping tough Vare Valley cane.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
Wusthof knives are probably the only knives I'll ever use again.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Henckels and Wusthof are the two big mainstream brands. Their lowest-end stuff (the 'Emeril' line for Wusthof) is fine, but if you shop around for deals on their more major lines, those are the best.
Get a 7" Santoku. Very useful, versatile knife.
Some other classic and high quality knives you might look at are Shun (also called Kershaw). They are particularly known for good balance and ergonomics.
There are several other major brands worth looking at, but those three are among the easier to find discounts on if you shop around.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
BTW, you can probably save money with individual purchases. A good chef's knife and paring knife may be enough to start with - the payoff with them over a Miracle Blade is bigger than on a bread knife, for example.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Yes, definitely, though there seem to be some big sales on blocks of Henckel's stuff right now, partly because one or two lines are being discontinued. Check out cutleryandmore.com , among other places.
You can frequently get individual knives (at least the most classic shapes) at something like a fourth of their list prices by keeping an eye on local and internet sales for the major brands. My santoku was about that much of a discount.
*tells self that he does not need a $100 vegetable knife, no matter how sharp it is and no matter that it is normally $250 -- http://www.cutleryandmore.com/details.asp?SKU=13664 *
Posted by brojack17 (Member # 9189) on :
quote:Originally posted by fugu13: Get a 7" Santoku. Very useful, versatile knife.
Is Santoku the shape of the knife? Would that work for chopping and dicing?
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
It's probably blasphemy, but I tend to prefer micro-serrated knives if you can get ones with sturdy blades and solidly made handles. Having been stuck with a set of dull knives in our current location, I'm *really* appreciating the two big micro-serrated ones as the only ones that really cut halfway decently.
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
Cook's Illustrated recommends the Forschner Fibrox Chef's Knife. It's a lot cheaper than the other brands, too. Usually $20-28.
And I agree with Dag and fugu on going for individual knives.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
Whatever you do, learn how to use a honing steel. They're not just there to make you look like a cooking ninja.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sterling: It's probably blasphemy, but I tend to prefer micro-serrated knives if you can get ones with sturdy blades and solidly made handles. Having been stuck with a set of dull knives in our current location, I'm *really* appreciating the two big micro-serrated ones as the only ones that really cut halfway decently.
A lot of guys at work have recently switched away from your standard sized kitchen knife to those micro-serrated knives. I can't remember the brand name they get, but it's Japanese. I've been considering getting my own set of knives recently, but I just use the extra knives we have at work rather than getting my own. I might consider it if I ever switched restaurants, but, presently I really can't justify spending the money. I'm sure I will when I have my own kitchen some day. I frequently at home miss my knives at work.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Sterling: get good knives, and you won't have dull knives for a long time. Plus, you can get a good sharpening steel for when one of them eventually does. They will also cut much more cleanly than micro-serrated ones.
Santoku is the shape of the knife, and it is very versatile. I regularly use mine for both chopping and dicing. I would love a good vegetable knife, though . . . *looks wistfully at the special*
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
A Santoku will basically fill the same role as a chef's knife, and it's largely a matter of personal preference. You only need one or the other, though.
Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:Originally posted by fugu13: Plus, you can get a good sharpening steel for when one of them eventually does.
The steel does not sharpen the blade, it hones it. There's a big difference. Where the former removes metal to sharpen the knife, the latter aligns the edge of the blade so that it can cut. Even a freshly-sharpened knife needs to be honed after use.
If you get a good knife, I'd also recommend against using a glass or ceramic cutting surface. Glass and ceramic are much harder than steel (especially high-carbon stainless), and they tend to dull the knife much faster than if you cut on a wood or acrylic surfaces.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Originally posted by fugu13: Sterling: get good knives, and you won't have dull knives for a long time. Plus, you can get a good sharpening steel for when one of them eventually does. They will also cut much more cleanly than micro-serrated ones.
Well, I'm closing in on the end of six months in New Zealand; I haven't felt like investing in expanding the paltry selection of (dull) knives at our rented house, and the couple of micro-serrated ones I have bought, while cheap, have helped a lot, given an absence of sharpening tools.
But, honestly, while I have non-microserrated chefs knives I use at home, I'm as likely to use the microserrated ones for most day-to-day uses. I don't need a spectacular knife for chopping onions or peeling garlic.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I used to think that until I chopped onions and garlic with a good, sharp, well-honed chef's knife. Turns out my knife skills don't actually suck (although they're not great, either).
It's on the common stuff like that that I've found it helps the most.
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
I love my henkel's chef knife. I have the same problem lyrhawn did... when I stopped working as a meat cutter, I missed all my fancy sharp knives, so I went out and bought me a really nice chef's knife. I use it for basically everything.
Posted by Pegasus (Member # 10464) on :
My wife has a few Cutco knives, like a small chef's knife and a few others that get used quite frequently. Definately better then the other junk in the drawer. We have no experience with brands already mentioned for comparison sake.
Posted by erosomniac (Member # 6834) on :
Cutco knives are (no offense, Pegasus) crap. They're great when they're new, but they don't sharpen well at all.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
We have Cutco 'cause my husband sold (still occasionally sells) it. They're wonderful. I can't use bad knives any more and we give family members Cutco knives for wedding presents and gave one to my mom for her birthday because I hate going to their houses and having to use bad knives! Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
hrm. A cutco IS a bad knife. so you can apparently use bad knives.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
I have a Henkel's paring knife and a Chef's knife by Hyde Park Cutlery, which is what they sell to students at the CIA. I love both of them.
Not all Henkels are good knives, they make a lower quality line that's not nearly as good.
BTW, the term "Hone" refers to precision grinding of metal surfaces using an abrasive material. It doesn't necessarily refer to sharpening knives.
Cutco knives are not supposed to be sharpened, except by Cutco. From what I understand, they have a lifetime warrantee on resharpening.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Paul, "bad" is relative... Cutco aren't the best but they're at least pretty good. My mom was using store-brand craptastic knives FROM THE 70s that had not been sharpened since she bought them and had visible dings in the blades. *winces*
Cutco knives can be "trued up" with a home sharpener (except the "double D edge", aka serrated, ones.) They are not supposed to be ground (resharpened) except by the company and they do have a lifetime warantee, you do pay shipping but that's it.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: I used to think that until I chopped onions and garlic with a good, sharp, well-honed chef's knife. Turns out my knife skills don't actually suck (although they're not great, either).
It's on the common stuff like that that I've found it helps the most.
Well, this may be where the "blasphemer" part comes in- I don't find a huge difference between the microserrated knife and the conventionally sharpened knife for such purposes. Maybe the chef's knife is a little nicer, but I also don't worry so much about accidentally blunting it.
I think the real problem with most of the cheaper microserrate knives is that they have thin blades that bend (and sometimes break) easily and handles that aren't sturdy and well fitted with the blades. There are a lot of little movements one does with a kitchen knife that aren't technically cutting where these things can make a big difference.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I suspect you haven't used a very sharp, well-honed, chef's knife then.
I've used the miracle blades and several other brands of micro-serrated knives, and none have come close. It could be a matter of individual technique being impacted by blade design, but I have found the difference to be huge.
Posted by maui babe (Member # 1894) on :
I agree with Dag. Using a good knife makes all the difference whether you're chopping a cucumber or dismembering a chicken. Cheap knives don't even come close.
Posted by Erasmus (Member # 11496) on :
I love this topic! I'm a Culinary Student at the moment at the Culinary Institute of America in Hyde Park. I have their knives which are Henkel and they are amazing and can handle a lot of wear and tear.
Wusthof knives I would say are for the more experienced and knife trained cook. Henkel are definitely a great starting knife. Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:I suspect you haven't used a very sharp, well-honed, chef's knife then.
I wanted to expand on this: I didn't know I was using dull knives until my brother in law sharpened my chef knife. I could slice onions with essentially no downward pressure beyond the weight of the knife itself - something I never even thought possible.
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
PC: I'm just using Wusthof's terminology, there; they call it a sharpening steel.
Erasmus: both Wusthof and Henckel have cheaper lines and more expensive lines. It looks like some of Henckel's higher end lines are on deeper sales right now, so I'd probably go that way, but I don't see either one as having an advantage in knife quality.
While I adore my Wusthof santoku, most of the knives I get in the future will probably be Shun and some more obscure brands. I like knives with a bit of playfulness to them (unusual shape, either for balance/ergonomics in the case of Shun or due to being from another culture's knife tradition in the case of some other brands).
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
quote:I'm a Culinary Student at the moment at the Culinary Institute of America in Hyde Park.
Say Hi to my wife. She works there.
Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
One of the things I left to my ex-husband were my Wusthof knives (in the spirit of niceness, I guess) and I was surprised, amused, and pleased that when he remarried, his new wife brought along her Cutco knives -- and they insisted that I take the Wusthofs.
They are happy with THEIR knives, we are happy with OUR knives, but ours are better. Much.
Win win, I say.
Posted by brojack17 (Member # 9189) on :
Be careful when handling knives around ex's. That's how "accidents" happen.
Posted by Sharpie (Member # 482) on :
We are all very gosh-darned amicable! Really! And the knives are nice and sharp.
Posted by Jeni (Member # 1454) on :
I have this Global knife and love it. Great balance, and it seems to be holding its edge very well thus far.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
I've been very happy with the heavy Chinese cleaver that I got at a local Asian store. I don't know that it has a brand name, but it's not the first (no name) Chinese cleaver I've gotten, and I've been happy with every one. You have to sharpen it (excuse me, hone) but it is excellent for smashing garlic, chopping, mincing, whacking a butternut squash in two, and all that. It handles differently than a chef's knife, but I really like that when my chopping is done, I can scoop the food onto the flat of the blade and dump it in my pot or salad bowl or whatever.
I also find that the heaviness of the thing reduced hand fatigue, since the cleaver is doing much of the work. I'm just steering it.
Posted by anti_maven (Member # 9789) on :
Oh Tante - we were seperated at birth... My favourite kitchen knife is a cheap, heavy Chhinese cleaver. It is excellent for everything, except perhaps fiddly delicate things. However once you've chopped garlic with a cleaver, you never go back.
Sadly the chopper is relegated to a 'safe' drawer these days as my wife has little faith in my knife wielding skills. Being out os sight and out of mind, I use the ordinary no-name knives in the knife block on the counter. They're good, and I keep them ++sharp but it's not the same
As for normal knifes, I've always hankered after a set of proper Sabatier knives, but I don't think my cooking warrants the expense.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
My dad uses one of those to crack open coconuts when he doesn't want to get out his machete. (Yes, he has a machete.)
Posted by anti_maven (Member # 9789) on :
I thought the only way to crack coconuts ws to tie them to your head and run at a wall.
Must remember to try the new method...
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
If that's your method, it's no wonder you're having problems remembering.
Posted by anti_maven (Member # 9789) on :
You've got to be careful with coconuts. They don't grow on trees you know...
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
I like our chinese cleaver too, but mostly for the big chopping (jointing chickens, mincing meat etc).
We have Trident knives, which are Wusthof I think. We have, in order of what we use the most, a chef's knife, a small knife (but not paring), a bread knife and one bigger than the chef's knife. I would like a paring knife.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
If you put the coconut in a hot oven and bake it for a bit, the shell will crack, giving you an in to start wedging/prising it open.
But I usually resort to tying it in a tea towel, sling-like, and swinging it down against the flagstones outside. CRACK! It is a very satisfying CRACK! Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
A hammer works quite well on a coconut. Word of advice: don't put the coconut on a wooden cutting board before whacking it with the hammer.
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee:
quote:I suspect you haven't used a very sharp, well-honed, chef's knife then.
I wanted to expand on this: I didn't know I was using dull knives until my brother in law sharpened my chef knife. I could slice onions with essentially no downward pressure beyond the weight of the knife itself - something I never even thought possible.
Certainly possible. I tend to think the knives I've purchased and sharpened at Excalibur tend to be decent quality, but they're not top-of-the-line. (I'd offer up brand names, but as I've mentioned, they're rather a long ways away right now.)
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Hammers and ovens?
That can't be nearly as much fun as using a machete.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
Exactly. I've told him the oven trick, and he's used a hammer when at someone else's house, but he really enjoys taking a machete or at the very least a giant cleaver and WHACKING it open. He gathers everyone around to watch too and we all have fun (in a scared sort of way.)
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
(He also dances around and makes martial arts movie noises while he does it, btw.
Have I mentioned my dad is weird?)
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sterling: I tend to think the knives I've purchased and sharpened at Excalibur tend to be decent quality, but they're not top-of-the-line.
They don't just hone it with a sharpening stone, they actually embed the knife in a stone and pull it out.
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: If you put the coconut in a hot oven and bake it for a bit, the shell will crack, giving you an in to start wedging/prising it open.
But that would damage the delicate coconut interior!
I got spoilt - I visited my brother last year when he was on GAP in Vanuatu. I had coconuts fresh from the tree cracked open by the kids with their bush knives (very like chinese cleavers, just longer - and everyone from 4 years old up carries them) - so good.
Posted by brojack17 (Member # 9189) on :
Wow, I thought this would be a mayfly (althought, I didn't plan on deleting it). I didn't think it would be a two pager.
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
Welcome to the big leagues, son.
Now, can I interest you in a knife set?
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
No, no, no. No ovens or hammers for cracking open coconuts. Take a big heavy knife, and with the blunt side of it, wack the coconut around the equator until it cracks open. My mother in law takes two or three wacks. I'm now down to a half dozen.
As for the cheapo no-name Chinese cleaver... I had one. Back in Canada. I don't have one now. I miss it. We can only get cheap crappo local knives here...
Posted by John Van Pelt (Member # 5767) on :
RE: Coconuts.
Don't forget to FIRST open holes through two of the eyes, and drain the milk. A nailset and hammer are good for this. Drink the milk, if you like, or use it in a recipe. This will make the cracking of the husk less... messy.
On-Topic: I am obsessively infatuated with good kitchen knives. And I love the Chinese cleaver, too.
QS wrote: My mother in law takes two or three wacks. I'm now down to a half dozen.
A half dozen mothers in law?
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
The liquid that comes out of a coconut isn't milk, but coconut water. Coconut milk is made by squeezing the meat of the fruit.
Posted by anti_maven (Member # 9789) on :
Always wondered about coconut milk, from reading castaway stories as a boy.
By the time coconuts reached the funfairs of my youth, what milk there was had long since upped sticks and gone.
One day I shall reach the tropics.
BTW, Brojack, I found this - if you're interested:
quote:Originally posted by anti_maven: You've got to be careful with coconuts. They don't grow on trees you know...
Maybe not where YOU live... Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by imogen: Welcome to the big leagues, son.
Now, can I interest you in a knife set?
*giggle*
quote:Originally posted by John Van Pelt: Don't forget to FIRST open holes through two of the eyes, and drain the milk. A nailset and hammer are good for this.
Which is why the hammer is doubly efficient. (Dags is right about milk/water though.)
Posted by Sterling (Member # 8096) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: They don't just hone it with a sharpening stone, they actually embed the knife in a stone and pull it out.
*groan* (chuckle)
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Originally posted by quidscribis: My mother in law takes two or three wacks.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
You know, we don't bother with nails through the eyes to drain the water. It's easy enough to hear the suddenly hollow sound and hold the coconut over a bowl, then take one more wack, pry it open a bit, and let it drain. It's a lot easier, in my mind, than using a hammer on a coconut.
And I'm glad y'all were so amused. Posted by brojack17 (Member # 9189) on :
So, I went with Calphalon. It seemed like a good starter knife. I drooled over the Henckels, but just could not spend the money on that. This will be a good starter knife for me and let me practice my knifework. I did get the 7" Santoku. I came home and immediately took out an onion. WOW! I have never sliced an onion that thin.
My next question, how long do I have before I need to get a sharpening steel? Can someone point me to a webpage or video that would show how to use one? I would hate to mess up my new knife.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Not to derail what you said, Jack -- but as a sidenote to your original thread,
my aunt once went to Alaska and brought me home an Ulu knife as a gift.
It sat in my cupboard quite awhile unopened until I went to Alaska myself and saw how they were supposed to be used. Now I use it quite a bit.
(sorry my post got scrogged for awhile)
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:My next question, how long do I have before I need to get a sharpening steel?
You need a sharpening steel now, because you should use one every time you use your knife.
Remember, despite the name, the steel doesn't sharpen; it hones.
That looks like it would be a cool knife to use.
Posted by brojack17 (Member # 9189) on :
Thanks dag. I'll go get one. How often should I get it sharpened professionally?
Posted by anti_maven (Member # 9789) on :
Thansk Dag, that's a good video. I'd always wondered how to use a steel. Now I know.
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
"How often should I get it sharpened professionally?"
Depending on frequency of use, about every 6 months.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: because you should use one every time you use your knife.
Reason #96 I will probably never have really good knives. Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
Where do you get a knife professionally sharpened? I've had a Henckels 7" Santoku for a couple of years and I love it. Use it daily, but now I can't get an edge on it with the steel. It is a good knife so I'd rather get it sharpen than buy a new one, but I don't have a clue where to get it done.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
Big Y will have their butchers do it for free, if you live in the New England area.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Apparently I saw this a bit too late, but I also have the Wusthof santoku. After my crappy chef knife broke, a friend of mine lent me her extra (yes, you read that correctly) Wusthof santoku.
I fell in love. I didn't know that was possible with a knife.
Eventually, I found a really good sale and picked up one of my own. Reason being, I just couldn't bear to use a crappy knife ever again.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:Originally posted by SC Carver: Where do you get a knife professionally sharpened? I've had a Henckels 7" Santoku for a couple of years and I love it. Use it daily, but now I can't get an edge on it with the steel. It is a good knife so I'd rather get it sharpen than buy a new one, but I don't have a clue where to get it done.
This got excellent reviews at Cook's Illustrated for sharpening. It's unsuitable for removing notches or nicks from a damaged blade, though. I have no personal knowledge about it, though.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
I just found an old "Oster" electric sharpener (from the 1960's I'd guess). It has two motorized grind wheels placed around a slot for the knife.
Good, bad, or unknown to use.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
quote:Remember, despite the name, the steel doesn't sharpen; it hones
I'll reiterate: Honing is a grinding process that removes metal. It is not limited to sharpening, automotive cylinders are also honed (for example). A steel does not hone.
BTW, you should never use a steel on a blade immediately after using it. The edge of the blade is distorted through use, and the edge can actually curl over at the microscopic level. Using a steel in that condition will rip off the edge of the blade.
Instead, allow the edge to rest for a day before you use a steel on it. This allows the metal to return most the of way to its original shape (what they call "memory"), and the steel just positions it the last little bit. Straight razors used to come in sets of 7 so that you could use one razor each day and only strop your razor once a week. That goes for using the steel every time you use your knife. Don't overdo it.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:BTW, you should never use a steel on a blade immediately after using it. The edge of the blade is distorted through use, and the edge can actually curl over at the microscopic level. Using a steel in that condition will rip off the edge of the blade.
That's why you should do it before using it.
quote:I'll reiterate: Honing is a grinding process that removes metal. It is not limited to sharpening, automotive cylinders are also honed (for example). A steel does not hone.
Whatever the technical use outside the context of knives, what is done with a sharpening steel by a cook immediately before using a knife is commonly referred to as "honing." If you use "honing" in this context, people will know what you mean.
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We can only get cheap crappo local knives here...
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